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  • Is Destiny 2 an MMO:Poll

    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    By the way where is it written that massively means hundreds or more? I'm only asking since we're being sticklers for facts and not feelings.
    That is horrible reasoning. I asked for facts not feelings or manufactured numbers which is exactly what you spewed back out at me. I've heard all the fantasy logic before, but people keep throwing out numbers like they're facts that mean something. They're not.

    Anway, So if Richard Garriott is the person who defines what an MMO is. And Shroud of the Avatar, which is an mmo, has a lower player cap per zone than your manufactured 250 player number then that would mean that almost all multiplayer games are mmos and @TheScavenger is right saying D2 is an mmo. You shot yourself in the foot bringing Garriott as the MMO authority into the argument. He may have said one thing at one time in the distant past, but actions his actions with SotA show differently.

    Other than multiplayer means 2+ people and that massively is an adverb you've not made any ground. Those were obvious and didn't need pointed out in the first place. Everything else you said is unsubstantiated conjecture.
    First, I don't know the details about Shroud of the Avatar, I've never played it and their website is short on detail. Garriott's number of 250 refers to the same virtual world, but that world can encompass multiple zones. So, even if a zone has a cap of 100 players, as long as there are multiple zones all belonging to the same persistent virtual world, he's good. Also, his statement of 250 was made this year, on this website, when mmorpg.com asked him directly to define what MMO means. He was also backed up by Raph Koster, the mmorpg.com staff and most of the commenters. 

    Second, most people who mis-label games as an MMO do not understand what an adverb is. I'm glad you do, but so many people on this forum do not understand which is why I repeat it a lot. Most people on this site who misuse the MMO label believe the word "massively" applies to the game as a whole, and not just the multiplayer aspect. This is the primary cause of confusion. 

    Third, "massive" and it's adverb "massively" have specific meanings. Again, I'm glad you understand them but it is very clear from these forums that a lot of people don't. To call something massive, you are making a comparison to something else. Unless otherwise specified, that comparison is made to other similar things. A massive building is a building that is significantly bigger than other buildings. A massive elephant is an elephant that is significantly bigger than other elephants. So, with MMOs, it can be called massively multiplayer if the multiplayer aspect is significantly bigger than other multiplayer games. 

    None of this is horrible reasoning. This reasoning is all factual. It is just basic English comprehension. This sort of thing is taught to 12 year olds with no difficulty. I don't know why you are struggling with it. I mean, is something I've written incorrect?

    The only thing you can justifiably argue against is that I have not given you a hard number for the average player cap in online multiplayer games. I am afraid I have not had the time to go out, find every single multiplayer game, find the player cap and come up with an average. So, instead I'll just give you some of the most popular, based off Steam's best selling multiplayer games

    PUBG - 100
    D:OS2 - 4
    Spacehulk Deathwing - 4
    Rocket League - 8
    Battlefleet Gothic Armada - 4
    Farming Simulator 17 - 16
    GTAV - 32
    CS:GO - 64
    F1 2017 - 20
    Blood Bowl 2 - 2
    Rainbow Six Siege - 10
    Football Manager 2017 - 22 (couldn't track down specifics, but seeing as max 22 players on the pitch...)
    Ark: Survival Evolved - 70 (official, unofficial more)
    Total War: Warhammer - 2
    The Escapists 2 - 4
    XCOM 2 - 4? (again, hard to find specifics)
    Mordheim - 2
    Rust - 50 (default, can set it as high as you want)

    I'm bored, but average number of players from 18 of the top selling multiplayer games on steam is 23. 

    Lets add in some other games that we know are popular, just not on steam. 

    DotA2 - 10
    LoL - 12 (mostly 10)
    Overwatch - 12
    Battlefield 1 - 64
    Destiny - 16
    The Division - 24

    Average stays the same. 

    I could keep going, but what's the point? We both know the results won't change much. It might shrink a bit once you've included every single possible multiplayer online game, or might grow a bit if you weighted the player caps against the popularity of the game. 

    So, if the average multiplayer online game can only support 23 players within the same virtual environment, can you explain to me how Destiny, which can only support 16, is massively multiplayer? Last time I looked, 16 is less than 23. 

    What am I getting wrong here? Do you comprehend English differently to me? Do you have a different definition of multiplayer? Is your understanding of maths different? Do we have a different understanding of what it means to be in the same virtual environment? Is it a tech problem, not understanding how virtual environment relates to zones / instances / layers / servers / shards?

    I get it when people lack english comprehension
    I get when people lack understanding of the technology
    I get when people mis-label due to feature comparison
    I get when people mis-label for marketing purposes
    I get when people mis-label for trolling fun

    You don't seem to fall into any of those, which is unique!