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  • Let the pre-Alpha cash shop items flow...

    Hmm, and as I recall this was your opinion then. Just an example of how wishy-washy opinions are in these forums. 

    Kyleran Said:

    @Slapshot1188 and many others ascribe to what I feel is an overly broad definition of the term PTW.

    I do in fact split hairs regularly over definitions, and as many know I'm quite passionate about it and will never yield. 

    So, P2W for me is a cash shop purchase (usually, but not always an item of power) that if I don't buy I will have next to zero chance of "winning."

    What is winning? Let's look at a well made WOW clone a few years back, Runes of Magic.

    In the western "beta" they sold an item exclusive to the store which was used to "upgrade" your gear. (RNG of course)

    My son and I were playing and both at level 45. Ran into a single lvl 40 stealther who antagonized us for several evenings, trying to gank us in mid pull.  He rarely pulled it off because of our levels and we had good heals. (And my son was fast as lightning). We however could not kill him, or even get him below 50%.

    We eventually got to chatting and he confessed to spending around $400 on gear buffs hence why we couldn't beat him

    Later I watched a fight with a notorious "red" mage and I saw him hold off 30 or so same level players killing them repeatedly. He boasted of spending $8K on his gear and that all of his guildmates (all reds of course) were in for $2- $3K.

    Final straw was when my guild leader said in order to start PVE I had better plan on spending $600 each for my son and I, and would likely go up in future expansions. 

    Too rich for my blood and I walked away having already spent about $200 for convenience items such as storage and mounts.

    So for me, all measure of P2W are against that experience and I find most things people decry as P2W are Pay for Advantage (PFA) in my way of thinking.

    PFA is largely a matter of degree. I don't care about cash shop convenience or cosmetic items,  and even items of power are fine as long as they are priced within the range of the "average" (meaning me) player or can be obtained by spending a reasonable amount of time (meaning the amount of time I spend) in game to obtain it.

    EVE is such a game, nothing they sell has ever impacted my gameplay, or if they did I could not discern it

    This games cash doesn't really concern me much, even if it provides players a big advantage at release, theres no MMORPG I've ever played where some group of players didnt have a big advantage in terms of time played, more skill, more friends, etc.  

    What do I really care if some spend money for it, doesn't impact my gameplay in any way compared to advantages players often have over me by other means.

    Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/471595/pay-to-build-and-manage-vs-pay-to-win/p4#27SoQr7eU2qeyyCw.99

    What was your point? I have a fairly high P2W threshold and like @Ungood I don't let it bother me.

    Recall I've been advocating for the continuation of the PFA cash shop items post release, so I'd say I'm pretty consistent.

    As for my most recent post it was mostly to point out you aren't very good at linking things which support your arguments, but rather the positions of the other side.

    You just did it again BTW.


  • It's got a long way to go.

    Gyva02 said:
    It's like sitting down with the creators of Monopoly and saying over and over again "you know what, this game would be a lot cooler with some chutes and ladders"

    lol, ummm, thanks but that's not what we're really making here... 
    Monopoly would be much cooler with some chutes and ladders.....so would Pantheon come to think of it.

    I'll dial Brad up and bounce it off of him. 

  • Let the pre-Alpha cash shop items flow...

    Oh, hey, thanks for reposting this.   I had forgotten Caspian already settled this debate for us when Slap pointed out he said,

    "it's imperative that the topic of conversation isn't about whether we're P2W or not. If that becomes the conversation, we've likely already lost the battle - regardless of whether it's true or not."

    People are also free to read the 6 pages of round and round we went through the last time, which I think some would agree was won by @Kajidourden with his insightful retort,

    If you have to try this hard to explain how something isn't one thing, it probably is.

  • Let the pre-Alpha cash shop items flow...

    pantaro said:
    TBH you guys can't make up your mind on what to cry about.  One day it's "they have a bad monetization system, and they need more P2W", the next day it's about how unfair and P2W it is.  Sounds like you'll find a way to complain one way or another.  Literally in this thread there are people that have one hand cried that you can't buy packages after launch, and a few posts later, cried that the game is P2W lolololololol.

    But either way, my inside sources at SBS tell me i'm right.  Plus my opinion is very important and the devs monitor my every post to make sure I'm happy.  Because I'm really important.  So obviously my posts are more important.  I'm not over compensating for my obvious lack of knowledge on the subject or anything.  And it's not an extremely pathetic attempt to feel some sort of validation.
    i thought to post on MMORPG.com that was the way it is lol I dont see a great many threads that dont have at least a couple people who either dont play a game or have no desire to play a specific game yet they know everything about it and are gonna tell you so.
    But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express!

  • Project Gorgon - Should You Buy It Now? - MMORPG.com

    Deyirn said:
    At this point, NO. Even if we disregard the horrible graphics (not that if they were shinier it would be better, but even the character models look deformed; also Vanilla WoW's graphics look better than this maxed out), the game doesn't have much to offer, you can't do much in the game aside from leveling your useless skills and lying to yourself that it was good purchase. Maybe in two years if they add stuff, maybe then the game will amount to something. And hopefully they will leave Early Access before they shut it down.
    Are you really sure your "profile" as an adventurer isn't lying to you?

    This excerpt from the Steam page lists many unique or long lost activities which are available in this game.

    Graphics may be as you say, but saying there's nothing to do is just being disingenuous.


    When you play Project: Gorgon, we want you to feel as if you’re immersed in a whole new virtual world. Rather than trying to manage this with just graphics and excessive backstory, we’ve designed the game with dozens of gameplay features that make you feel like you’re really there interacting with the world, such as:

    • Each non-player (NPC) you meet has their own goals and interest, and reward players that choose to be their friend.
    • You can drop items on the ground, and other players can pick them up. What’s so great about that? Imagine laying down a trail of literal (virtual) breadcrumbs to guide your friends (or lure your enemies) into the woods.
    • Shopkeepers keep inventory, so you can buy items that other players have sold to them. Want to help out new players? Sell your cast-off items to the shopkeeper in the new player zone and watch the new players go to town.
    • If you are on fire, you can jump into a lake to put it out. This type of mechanic can have a subtle effect on your strategies, especially when you are fighting a fire mage!
    • You can inscribe messages onto items, write books, and even leave notes for other players. Make your name as an in-game poet, or pronounce your greatness to the world!


    In Project: Gorgon you kill monsters - a lot of them - and you take their loot. In order to keep the experience fun and interesting, we’ve developed unique combat experiences to keep the fights feeling fresh. The loot is randomly generated, monsters have unique abilities, and dungeons have puzzles, traps, and terrifying bosses! The combat skills are entirely free-form. You can learn as many combat skills as you want, and use any two of them at the same time to create your own personal “class.” Project: Gorgon features dozens to choose from, including:

    • Battle Chemistry: Create huge explosions, inject yourself with mysterious mutagens or program a pet golem!
    • Unarmed Combat: Grapple and control enemies using a situational-aware combo system that varies based on where you are and what day it is.
    • Animal Handling: Tame animals and train them to become ferocious fighters. Then breed your best and sell their offspring to other players.
    • Necromancy: Seek out corpses and graveyards to raise an undead army. No graveyard around? Well, there are always the corpses of your friends.
    • Cow: Got turned into a cow by that boss? That sucks. But learn some kicks and how to stampede, and you'll be right back out there kicking grass in no time!
    • That’s just a few! There’s also Sword Fighting, Combat Psychology, Staff Fighting, Sigil Scripting, Mentalism, and more.

    Player Choices are important in Project: Gorgon. You can learn as many skills as you want, but sometimes power comes with downsides. You can become infected with lycanthropy and gain access to very powerful skill sets. As a lycanthrope, you are able to roam the world in a pack or as a lone wolf; however, when there is a full moon (which is tied to the real world lunar calendar) you are stuck in your beast form. There’s no cure for lycanthropy.

    You can become a Druid - which will give you great power, but you have to vow to drop everything when there’s an emergency involving nature. It could be a forest fire, a monster invasion or even a pesky insect. Nature never lets you ignore your duties, ever.

    New opportunists come open, but others will be closed. Can you bear heavy burdens in exchange for greater power?


    The community is a critical aspect of Project: Gorgon. We strive to maintain a strong, engaged community, supporting our players through:

    • Live Events with a focus on story.
    • Mechanisms For player-created quest content.
    • Player housing (limited and instanced).
    • Player-managed shops and vendor stalls.
    • In-game communication tools like bulletin boards.
    • Bookshelves where you can write and submit your own books and stories (and players can vote on their favorites).