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  • What the crap, still no Beta ETA?

    DMKano said:

    I am surprised that MJ has been taken his time for this long to address the forums directly - because there is no winning for him - the outcome will always be a shitstorm in the end, because inevitably someone gets upset and starts shitting down the devs throat at every turn they see.

    The winning comes from the special relationship Mark and his team have built over the years with their fans. CSE has a lot of allies and friends, people willing to protect the studio and be understanding / patient when things don't go as planned. This relationship is invaluable and no matter the outcome with CU (I'm confident that it's going to be a resounding success), I'm sure it was worth it to directly deal with the fans, especially during the shitstorms.  :p
  • Camelot Unchained - Beta incoming any time soon?

    On the Kickstarter page, I found this:  Estimated delivery of Beta 1 Access: February 2015.  If I am not mistaken (and I often am), CU has not yet entered Beta testing.  Forgive me if I'm wrong about this, I Googled about CU being in Beta and didn't get many clear results.  If they aren't at least in Beta 1, they are 2.5 years late on their original estimate.

    It's the case, but as you pointed out, they're late based on their own original pre-production estimate, rather than "objectively" late. Another comparable project (e.g. Darkfall, which was PvP centric, created by a team about the size of CSE, built their engine from scratch like CSE, etc.) took +10 years in total from the beginning of development to release. So 6-7 years to build something as complex as CU isn't extraordinary long or alarming. It really takes that long to create an innovative MMO with a relatively small team in the west. And it's even longer if the devs don't know what they're doing (fortunately, in our case, Mark is extremely exigent when it comes to hiring the finest developers).

    I fully believe that the developers are working as hard as they can on this game.  I also believe that they drastically underestimated the amount of time it would take to build an engine from scratch and develop the entire game.  What other conclusions can you reasonably draw?  

    Agreed on both counts. It's hard to know exactly if it was 100% genuine estimates  or if they decided to put a date that seemed not too far away so they can reach the KS goal more easily. Only CSE knows I guess. What I know however is that I regularly tell people that I'll do X task in about an hour, and 2 hours later it's still not completed. Not because I'm lazy or I lied, rather because I'm optimistic and plans often don't go exactly as planned. It's even worse when I'm doing something for the first time since it's impossible to estimate accurately based on previous experiences. And it's exactly what happened to CSE: afaik they haven't built an engine previously for a MMO (WAR and DAoC used existent tech if I'm correct), nor built games with such complexity : 1,000 players battle may seem simple when we  think about it, but it's actually the number one most complicated thing to pull off in a video game and nobody achieved it to this day the way CU envisions it. Server-side physics, real-time destruction of structures, moving islands, procedurally-generated environment (that looks good, not just bland boring repetitive trees and rocks), ability system with components, usage-based progression for skills, etc. Nobody created something as complex yet. So it was impossible to know during pre-production how long it would take imo. But they surely could have been less optimistic with their original estimates.

    Considering how much things have been delayed, after giving the developers their money, it's not unreasonable for backers to be concerned or frustrated.  I do believe the game will eventually be released, but if the development pace so far is any indication, it's a long way off.  What CU has working in its benefit is that there are few new, decently funded MMOs in the works to challenge it when it does eventually release.  For this type of experience, what else do we have to look forward to?

    True, and I understand the backers who are frustrated and those who request refunds. And yea it's going to take a long while still. But it's not that bad imo because as you point out there's no real competitors, except maybe unannounced AAA titles but I doubt it. And also because the Betas are going to be a lot of fun in CU, so even if it takes a long time for release, I don't really care, as long as we can have fun sieging, PvPing, crafting, exploring, socializing, etc. during Betas. And it's about to start =) (edit: "the fun" is about to start, Beta idk, but Beta is just an appellation and "late Alpha" can be just as fun).

  • Deception or Belief: A Crowd Funded Paradox - MMORPG.com

    I don't know... on one hand I agree and I also think exactly like that when I'm in a slow day / kind of depressed. Otoh crowdfunded MMOs seem to be the only way to get any kind of design or technological innovation because established studios just don't want to risk losing so much money trying.

    Look at the recent MMO releases which are mostly eastern ones... It's all the same debilitating, repetitive mind-enslaving crap they serve over and over again. "4 more hours killing those creatures and you'll get a chest, a wonderful chest." There's little tactics and strategy, the gameplay could barely be qualified as multiplayer so let's forget about the benefits of socialization, we learn nothing, it's just about using effective techniques to get players hooked for a few more weeks until the next patch is ready to get released.

    At least many of the indie studios are trying something different and it seems to me like they have more respect for the players' intelligence than the dozens of linear & grindy "MMO" games that get shipped every year just because this model has proven to be the most profitable to date.
  • Earlier is now?

    The gif is lagging so hard o,o
  • Dark and Light - Early Access Impressions - It's Rough Right Now, But There's Hope - MMORPG.com

    Ozmodan said:
    Ozmodan said:
    Should never been released to steam in this state.  Most of your early adopters will reject it and probably never go back to it.  Dumb move by Snail.
    56% of the reviews from english speaking players are positive on Steam, which isn't disastrous for a game that just launched in early access.
    Any time you see a "mixed" reaction on steam is a warning flag.   The game is basically single player right now, the multiplayer aspects are flat out broken.  So I stand by what I said, they are killing their game releasing it in this state!
    I agree with you that it's a warning flag. I think that the context of the "mixed" score is important too. The first wave of reviews was overwhelmingly negative (80% "not recommended"), while now, not even 48 hours later, the reviews are generally positive (about 66% "recommended").

    This game still has a long way to go and the developers seem to acknowledge it. They have made the decision to release it in early access before it's finished, whether it's a good move or not idk, but even if they had waited a bit longer, it would likely not have changed much in terms of content and optimization: it takes weeks or months to implement new systems and improve performances in a game like D&L.