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Shaigh

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Shaigh
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  • State of the Studio

    I don't spot any gross negligence on the part of the team on why they should be forced to give out refunds yet. They are spending the money they get through crowdfunding on making the product, which is exactly the point of crowdfunding. Its not about offering refunds to people having second thoughts.

    If you want to ask what happens with developers that fail on their crowdfunding venture, ask yourself what kind of career ryan dancey had after pathfinder online crashed and burned.
    JamesGoblin
  • The Importance of Story and Lore in the MMORPG

    Story matters more in singleplayer game and with mmorpg trying to appeal more and more to singleplayer gamers devs have put more efforts in voice-over and instanced story missions. I don't believe those improvements made the game any worse, after all the good parts of swtor was those sections.

    The problem is the change to leveling with the removal of much of multiplayer content and make it more and more about soloing up to level cap. The quick and simple path to level cap is what "ruins" mmorpg.
    AlBQuirky
  • State of the Studio

    Ungood said:
    frostymug said:
    Ungood said:

    Kickstarter has made is clear that you are not entitled to a refund through them, and to use their service you even signed that you have fully understood and agreed to those terms. I hate to say it, but yes, at that point you are no longer entitled to a Refund from Kickstarter, and they would challenge any move to get money back from them directly (which is what a Chargeback would do) because not only do they not have your money any more, as they paid the money out to whatever plight you opted to donate to, they would pay a fine to the credit card company and deal with a negative on their credit profile, something I am going to bet they are very unwilling to do, so we can be pretty sure they would challenge any attempt by anyone made to get money back from them, and the No Refund contract that you signed with them would ensure they would win the exchange, and it would be your credit score that would suffer.

    Also they are not gambling, as they do not run any risk factors, they simply are a sounding board for people with projects to ask for donations, Kickstarter does not handle any exchange of goods or services under their ToS (and you signed and agreed that you understood that as well), and they make it clear that you assume all responsibility for what you donate your money too as they do not.

    If you want a refund, then bring it up with SBS, and ask, and deal with them directly, but, do not get Kickstarter involved and don't get your credit card company involved unless you bought something directly from SBS.
    You're not asking for a refund through them. You're getting a chargeback through them. Read up. It happens quite often. And they get awarded quite often. What happens after that is the question. It works out fine for them as they can pass on the total chargeback to the creator while keeping their original fee from the whole deal anyways. 

    They absolutely are gambling. No matter what they say, threaten, or write in their ToS, it does not override consumer protection laws. Their gamble is projects that they collect and act as a clearinghouse for will come to fruition. If not? Chargebacks. KS processes the charge and so they eat the chargeback as well. If the product/service has not delivered in a reasonable time or has changed significantly from what it was initially represented as, a chargeback is completely valid and no details provided will change that. They aren't going to fight you or try to drag it to court with a flimsy ToS that counters consumer protection laws. Believe that.

    KS isn't some big bad entity to fear like you are attempting to make it seem. At worst, your KS account will be closed and you'll be unable to back anything else. If you're at the point of getting a legitimate chargeback, you're probably willing to pay that price. 

    I'm not advocating chargebacks by any means. I haven't had to initiate one mostly because I haven't crowdfunded anything. Just saying that they will almost certainly win. The only payment model that explicitly states that chargebacks are not available for crowdfunding due to the very nature of crowdfunding is PayPal. Credit cards and any other service treats crowdfunding exactly like any other product or service. Unless that has changed within the last year or so. There are legal loopholes all over the concept of crowdfunding and the money involved. 


    Ya know what.

    If anyone is stupid enough to think that they can ignore the contracts the  sign with a company, they deserve a bad credit score, to warn any other companies to not deal with those kinds of idiots.

    Do whatever the you want, sorry for trying to warn you.




    Ungood said:
    OrangeBoy said:
    The law isn't so simple to where everything comes down to "you signed it, you HAVE to go through with it".
    You would be very wrong... unless you are very rich.

    While a contract cannot force you to do something illegal, they can in many ways limit your legal actions. You should read what a car loan limits you to, it's an eye opener, what fees you agree to pay, and what legal rights you give to the loan agency and what rights you sign away.

    If you really think you can just back out of a contract because it suddenly does not agree with you.. you would be.. very.. very mistaken.

    Some days you gotta grow up and realize the world is not a magical place where you win the day, leave that kind of delusional thinking for in-game stuff.

    To coin the Honorable Judge that presided over one of my cases involving a phone contract, "You are liable for the rights you sign away"

    It was a very "welcome to adulthood" moment, figured I'd share that with you before you get to hear the same thing from a lawyer or judge, or a collection agency.. which could be worse, depending on the situation.
    Your first dramatic mistake is trying to equate a signed written contract to a TOS which did not require active acknowledgment tucked away on a different website than the purchase was made.  Your second mistake was not acknowledging that the same hidden(IMHO), unsigned TOS did not even reference Refunds.
    No. I am not talking about anything SBS said or whatever nonsense or noise he may make, I am not talking about that.

    See, what I am talking about is THIS ToS that you had to agree to when you made your Kickstarter Account.

    It's pretty clear what they said, and it's a really easy to understand as they seemed to write in really simple language, I guess they get a lot of stupid people maybe, they even went so far as to even bullet-point the key points.

    Like this one! 
    • Kickstarter doesn’t offer refunds. Responsibility for finishing a project lies entirely with the project creator. Kickstarter doesn’t hold funds on creators’ behalf, cannot guarantee creators’ work, and does not offer refunds.
    Now why this is important, is because Kickstarter is the company that charged your credit card, and thus it would be Kickstarter that would have to pay the money back if you Cashbacked on your credit card. But see you made an agreement with Kickstarter when you made your account with them, that you would not get a refund directly from them.

    All KS needs to do is e-mail this ToS (Which you signed when you made your account) to the Credit Card company and you would be declined the Cashback, (yes it would be that easy for them to deny you). What happens after that can either be innocuous to crippling for your credit history.

    But you know what.. Ignore me.. Do whatever the hell you want. if you are too stupid to read the contracts you sign, maybe the world is better off with you having a bad credit history to save anyone else the headache of dealing with you.
    A citizen can't sign away rights granted by consumer protection laws.
    DakeruSlapshot1188
  • Kickstarter keeps being a poor fit for mmorpg development

    Its 5.5 years since the kickstarter craze first began with people hyping up games like Pathfinder Online, The Repopulation and Greed Monger. Since then we have had more higher budget games that has taken the kickstarter route asking for small sums of money to create complex games on a short time frame. To get extra money there are stretch goals which have proven to be very easy to promise and costly to actually develop.

    What happened next was expected, delay happens with developer excuses followed by a frantic search for more funds to complete the game that sometimes reaches the absurd. If they don't get extra money the game that was promised ends at a dream with developers losing their job.

    You need a large backer to make an MMORPG, Pantheon was dead in the water until they got an investor that put $10M into the project so they could pay their employees, MJ had to keep putting his own money into Camelot Unchained until he got a large investor to bankroll the game and crowfall also had the benefit of multiple large investor. Ashes of creation supposedly has $30M that can be used to fund the game so the kickstarter has nothing to do with actually funding the game.

    Kickstarter is great for games with a limited scope, its been amazing for indie developers and we got a lot of games out of it, board game developers can pitch their ideas to the players immediately and can make games with limited circulation, a great thing for board game collectors. I can't say the same thing about MMORPG development.
    KyleranMikehaSlapshot1188GeezerGamerHarikenYashaX
  • Cloud Imperium Fires Back at Crytek's Lawsuit, Seeks Case's Dismissal - Star Citizen News

    GLA
    2.1.2 to exclusively embed Cryengine in the game.....
    2.5 This license is not assignable to any third party......

    No doubts what exclusively refers to. 

    Kyleran