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You know what's really exciting about video games is you don't just interact with the game physically -- you're not just moving your hand on a joystick, but you're asked to interact with the game psychologically and emotionally as well. You're not just watching the characters on screen; you're becoming those characters. NINA HUNTEMANN, Game Over


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  • State of the Studio

    Kyleran said:
    Vrika said:
    I never feel sorry for consumers who expect special treatment.  You bought something that said no refund.  If you weren't 100% sure about spending the money you shouldn't of done it.  Maybe it's from working in sales for years, but I just don't have sympathy for this sort of thing.  

    If you REALLY want your money back, like I said in other threads, sell it on a third party site.
    I don’t want to turn this into a refund thread. But my perspective is that the agreement has 2 sides. The customer pays money and agrees to no refund. The company agrees to deliver a specific product by a particular time.  If the product changes significantly or the timeline (if it’s sold as 18 months and turns out to be 42 months for instance) then IMHO the company hasn’t lived up to their end of the agreement.  One side can not unilaterally change an agreement.   That’s not expecting special treatment.  That’s just basic fairness to me. 
    But by the nature of kickstarter you are essentially agreeing to donate the money. You are paying money for someone to make a product, not buying a product.

    If we look at it as paying for making the product, then the person did not make the product and should pay the money back because he did not keep up his side of the deal.

    There must be large tolerance to problems that happen while making the product, but if it turns out that the time estimation is completely wrong and they must program a completely new game engine because the one in their plan can't be used, at some point you must be able to call out that the product isn't being made as agreed and ask for you money back. Kickstarter company's responsibility to you doesn't end with the end of Kickstarter campaign, it begins from that point.
    This is what I was saying.

    It's not just Kickstarter.  They were directly SELLING packages for all this time.  They have a freaking STORE page...  This is a business.

    I'm not forcing anyone to follow my thoughts.  If you consider your purchases donations that's absolutely within your rights.  In this case I am not even advocating people TRY to get a refund (explained why previously).  But these agreements are two sided and in my opinion it's simply unfair to hold one side to it when the other has not lived up to their end.

    As I often told my children, "life isn't fair, and it never will be."

    It's a lesson they fully grasp as adults and allows them to have no unrealistic expectations, such as getting refunds from a retail store which clearly posts there are no refunds. (We generally won't shop in such stores.)

    You know, Soulbound doesn't consider store purchases  to be donations either, they are "deposits" on future services, and its stated in the excerpt below four times these are non-refundable. (as well as two or three more times elsewhere in the TOS.)

    It states they may freely change the date, and the last paragraph covers changing the content at will.

    One oversight is no mention about the construction of the game, so the question about breaking their "promise " to use SpatialOS might actually be courtroom worthy as it's not covered in the agreement either way.

    COE TOS... be careful what you agree to.

    "Any funds raised through such third party service, as well as any funds raised through pre-release sales Services or any in-game incentives or perks as part of the Services, shall not constitute an investment and is a deposit to be used for the production of and the delivery of the Services, including the development and production costs for the Services, including operational costs of related to the Services or any third-party service costs deemed necessary or advisable to offer the Services, and including Soulbound Studios’ corporate expenses incurred in order to develop, produce, and deliver the Services.

    Any funds so raised shall be earned by Soulbound Studios and are non-refundable. Such funds shall be applied to the direct provision of any Purchase made and/or to the cost of provision of the Services. Soulbound Studios shall use best efforts to deliver Services purchased pre-release on or before the estimated release date for the Services. However, you acknowledge and agree such delivery date is not a firm promise and may be extended by Soulbound Studios. Any portion of funds raised for the provision of the Services shall be non-refundable, unless such funds shall be deemed refundable under terms of services of the third party service through which those funds for the provision of Services were procured and in effect at the time of provision of those funds. In consideration of Soulbound Studios’ use of best efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Services utilizing, in part or in whole, the funds raised for the provision of Services, you agree any amounts raised shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not Soulbound Studios actually delivers the Services. In consideration for the promises by Soulbound Studios, you agree you shall irrevocable waive any claim for refund of any such funds.

    You acknowledge and agree the Services provided may differ in certain aspects from descriptions, screen shots, or game footage shown or described at the time of deposit of such funds."


    Businesses can call it what they want but often the government sees it in a different way which is why they have consumer protection laws for people who believe they have a reason to not agree with the terms of services.  People would be surprised how much in life is negotiable even though a lot of businesses don't want people to know this because, well it's bad for business.  Just don't be like the people who walk into your average car dealership and actually pay the posted sticker price.

    Also, people dispute contracts all the time.  Some win some don't.  Everyone has the opportunity to at least try if they feel they have a good case.  Lastly, the strength of a ToS varies from country to country. 

    Bureau of Consumer Protection

    The FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection stops unfair, deceptive and fraudulent business practices by collecting complaints and conducting investigations, suing companies and people that break the law, developing rules to maintain a fair marketplace, and educating consumers and businesses about their rights and responsibilities.


  • I am not paying $50,either F2P with shop or the Risk is to high that i become a Beta tester ...

    lahnmir said:
    Best way to vote for a game is with your wallet.  So my wallet also stays closed until I see something substantial.
    I opened my wallet and am playing something pretty substantial right now, funny how that works.

    Criwfalls pre-alpha is better then most BETAs I've been in, it has already made a tremendous amount of progress in a relatively short time.


    OK, that's one.
  • Looking for fantasy version of The Division

    Destiny 2.  It's like a simpler version of TD with a fantasy spin, IMO.
  • Every Time Star Citizen Gets a New Update Everyone Forgets What an Alpha is

    An Honest Elite Dangerous Trailer Thats Closer To The Actual Game
  • CU big announcement Thursday Jan 18th

    MaxBacon said:
    What I worry with CU is that when the beta opens people will be exposed to something similar to this:

    It already got quite the backlash when posted, been from mid-2017, so what to expect from CU's beta is something I wonder.
    That steak needs a lot more sizzle.