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Businesses can call it what they want but often the government sees it in a different way which is why they have consumer protection laws for people who believe they have a reason to not agree with the terms of services. People would be surprised how much in life is negotiable even though a lot of businesses don't want people to know this because, well it's bad for business. Just don't be like the people who walk into your average car dealership and actually pay the posted sticker price.Kyleran said:As I often told my children, "life isn't fair, and it never will be."Slapshot1188 said:This is what I was saying.Vrika said:If we look at it as paying for making the product, then the person did not make the product and should pay the money back because he did not keep up his side of the deal.AshyLarry24 said:But by the nature of kickstarter you are essentially agreeing to donate the money. You are paying money for someone to make a product, not buying a product.Slapshot1188 said:I don’t want to turn this into a refund thread. But my perspective is that the agreement has 2 sides. The customer pays money and agrees to no refund. The company agrees to deliver a specific product by a particular time. If the product changes significantly or the timeline (if it’s sold as 18 months and turns out to be 42 months for instance) then IMHO the company hasn’t lived up to their end of the agreement. One side can not unilaterally change an agreement. That’s not expecting special treatment. That’s just basic fairness to me.AshyLarry24 said:I never feel sorry for consumers who expect special treatment. You bought something that said no refund. If you weren't 100% sure about spending the money you shouldn't of done it. Maybe it's from working in sales for years, but I just don't have sympathy for this sort of thing.
If you REALLY want your money back, like I said in other threads, sell it on a third party site.
There must be large tolerance to problems that happen while making the product, but if it turns out that the time estimation is completely wrong and they must program a completely new game engine because the one in their plan can't be used, at some point you must be able to call out that the product isn't being made as agreed and ask for you money back. Kickstarter company's responsibility to you doesn't end with the end of Kickstarter campaign, it begins from that point.
It's not just Kickstarter. They were directly SELLING packages for all this time. They have a freaking STORE page... This is a business.
I'm not forcing anyone to follow my thoughts. If you consider your purchases donations that's absolutely within your rights. In this case I am not even advocating people TRY to get a refund (explained why previously). But these agreements are two sided and in my opinion it's simply unfair to hold one side to it when the other has not lived up to their end.
It's a lesson they fully grasp as adults and allows them to have no unrealistic expectations, such as getting refunds from a retail store which clearly posts there are no refunds. (We generally won't shop in such stores.)
You know, Soulbound doesn't consider store purchases to be donations either, they are "deposits" on future services, and its stated in the excerpt below four times these are non-refundable. (as well as two or three more times elsewhere in the TOS.)
It states they may freely change the date, and the last paragraph covers changing the content at will.
One oversight is no mention about the construction of the game, so the question about breaking their "promise " to use SpatialOS might actually be courtroom worthy as it's not covered in the agreement either way.
COE TOS... be careful what you agree to.
"Any funds raised through such third party service, as well as any funds raised through pre-release sales Services or any in-game incentives or perks as part of the Services, shall not constitute an investment and is a deposit to be used for the production of and the delivery of the Services, including the development and production costs for the Services, including operational costs of related to the Services or any third-party service costs deemed necessary or advisable to offer the Services, and including Soulbound Studios’ corporate expenses incurred in order to develop, produce, and deliver the Services.
Any funds so raised shall be earned by Soulbound Studios and are non-refundable. Such funds shall be applied to the direct provision of any Purchase made and/or to the cost of provision of the Services. Soulbound Studios shall use best efforts to deliver Services purchased pre-release on or before the estimated release date for the Services. However, you acknowledge and agree such delivery date is not a firm promise and may be extended by Soulbound Studios. Any portion of funds raised for the provision of the Services shall be non-refundable, unless such funds shall be deemed refundable under terms of services of the third party service through which those funds for the provision of Services were procured and in effect at the time of provision of those funds. In consideration of Soulbound Studios’ use of best efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Services utilizing, in part or in whole, the funds raised for the provision of Services, you agree any amounts raised shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not Soulbound Studios actually delivers the Services. In consideration for the promises by Soulbound Studios, you agree you shall irrevocable waive any claim for refund of any such funds.
You acknowledge and agree the Services provided may differ in certain aspects from descriptions, screen shots, or game footage shown or described at the time of deposit of such funds."
Like with dynamic events. You have an option to join the crowd in doing dynamic content without forming a group, yet be part of the group. So you can solo in a group event if you want. Plus the more players the more NPC's join in.ikcin said:Solo is a singleplayer game. You are solo, when you do not play with other players. If they kill your character, or take your mobs, or help you at some way, you are not solo, no matter if you are in party. It seems you do not understand that if you do not compete or cooperate with the other players, you play a singleplayer game actually and the idea of MMO is delusional. Like in the real life you may be alone even with thousands people around you. To be with them, you need interaction.AAAMEOW said:I like to play solo myself. I think your definition of solo is single player game. My definition of solo is I can jump in action any time I want without being obliged in a predetermined party, or have to socialize to achieve or acquire something in the game.ikcin said:rojoArcueid said:As a non-raider and non-PvPer i play mmorpgs pretty much exclusively for the story. But the fact that it is an mmorpg and not a single player rpg makes me sad when all mmo stories revolve around me as the sole hero.
I would love to see an mmorpg with a really well done story that revolves around every player as part of a huge organization (hunters, mercenaries, traders, scholars, alchemists, etc, etc), not just as one person.
As a solo player you play MMOs for the story. So why you play MMOs if you define yourself as a solo player? And do not blame me. The raids and PvP are the only multiplayer activities in the most so called MMORPGs.
For example queuing solo in MOBA. Roaming solo in RvR. Doing public event solo without a party etc. Or even queuing dungeon in LFG solo.
Here's the one for U.S. https://realmpop.com/us.html A little more PvE in US than EU. Hunter 11.5%.Dragnelus said:
"Hunter Pet Changes..."
If they go with this....man.....I'm liking to believe that 33% of WoW's population is a hunter main (probably not in legion, but definitely previous expansion) so expect some huge backlash to this Blizzard.
At least Outlaw Rogues will still have Roll-the-Bones! I know they are excited about that! /endsarcasm