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  • Visionary Realms Wants to Know Where You Draw the Line on RMT, F2P & More - Pantheon: Rise of the Fa

    DMKano said:

    A monthly sub and everything available in the game just like the old days

    The only problem with this model is that it requires a very high population of players to stay viable because you put a low, fixed cap on how much a player can spend on the game. 

    The real problem is that is unsustainable - it is literally impossible to run a MMORPG on pure subscription for a long time.

    The population over time declines - and only continues to decline - thus inevitably reaching a point where running a game costs more than the number of players remaining to sustain it.

    The only variable is how fast you get to this point - 6 months, a year - or decades - but it is inevitable.

    Games like Ultima Online, EverQuest and World of Warcraft would put the fallacy to your statement. If you make a good game and thoroughly support it with updates, you can go decades before having to consider other avenues of revenue. The problem is that the industry is only interested in quick and "easy" cash. They are no longer interested in working for their 37 plus billion dollars per year, surpassing the movie industry. The gaming industry needs to take a thorough self examination and deal with its rampant out of control costs, inefficiencies and shortsightedness and come up with real solutions that don't involve cheap addicting gambling mechanics and pavlov psycho bullcrap.
    @DMKano already refuted this, all those games have Cash Shops now.

    To further support his statement, UO/EQ/WoW were created in an era where movie tickets averaged $5.40 each and newspapers weren't in deep financial troubles.  Inflation happened, and the basic subscription didn't keep up.  Newspapers and periodicals had ad revenues, which rose to compensate and keep margins in check.  Now those rates are contributing to the financial pressures on those industries.

    Game companies aren't exempt from inflation.  A 15-20+ year old subscription model that hasn't adapted to changing financial situations cannot keep up with rising costs.  Games, especially games that require daily support, require additional revenue for the companies to remain solvent.

    They've chosen to implement optional revenue sources (cash shops) as opposed to possibly driving away customers by raising subscription prices.  Would you balk at a mandatory cost increase in the subscription rate?  If it increased by only by $5/month (to $20/month), you'd probably stick around.  But it might drive away others.

    A very simple example from the company's point of view.  We were charging $15 a month from 10 customers, with a total income of $150/month.  We raised the rate to $20 a month, but we lost 3 customers.  Now we're only making $140 a month from 7 customers -- a loss of $10 a month.  Who's going to make that up difference?  (This is the same basic problem newspapers face -- how to maintain revenue when circulation drops).

    It is a basic economic principle that it's taken businesses to fully realize -- the subscription model needs external sources of income to sustain profitability.  It has been true for newspapers, magazines and now, games.

  • How do they plan to make money?

    Directly addressing the sale of OPC time.

    It *might* work as an income source.  I do think the 8 hour free undermines that considerably.  If I were going to try something like this, I'd expect the basic game to be free and the basic premise that Live play is more important than Scripted play.  I'd start out with any amount of daily live play as the basic game play, but entering Scripted play is a bonus.

    There could be several avenues for possibly revenue generation.  Creating a script could cost $0.50 each (one-time charge).  This script could be run for 2 hours.  Every time a player scripts some new offline activity, that's a new script.  There would be a limit to the number of scripts, including some basic no cost scripts.

    Every player can run 10 2-hour block of scripts per month for free.  Additional 2-hour blocks would be available for money, maybe 10 for $5/month.  (Could be a one-time purchase or a recurring charge).  Each player can schedule 1 block of scripted play per day, with additional /day blocks available for $5 for each additional block, with a maximum of 5 blocks/account/day total.

    The blocks/day limit forces characters to log off periodically, simulating a real world.  If some one wanted to set up a 'vendor' script, they could operate freely for 2 hours offline for 10 consecutive days.  If they wanted a full time script, they could operate an offline vendor 10 hours/day ($+20) for 30 days ($+10).  That's a total of $+30 per month on top of any basic subscription.

    This is just how I might try to implement monetizing off-line scripted play.  Basically, a charge for making a script, and a monthly charge to execute scripts and the ability to increase the off-line time/day.   (I've used 10 day periods, but it could easily be weeks instead.  The math changes, not the idea.)  I'd definitely limit this to each account, not characters.

    Things I'd consider for scripting.  Travel.  Sales (10 items).  Purchasing (10 items).  Recovery*.  Training self.  Teaching others (mentoring).  Role-playing.  Crafting.  Harvesting/Collecting/Farming (1 item).

    * - This could be very useful to simulate long-term natural healing or for non-regenerative systems.  (i.e., mana doesn't automatically come back when used).

    I'm pretty skeptical that a system like this would generate enough money to sustain a game.  It's just an idea I thought I'd toss out.
  • 'Paragon Institute' Wants to Raise Funds to Buy Marvel Heroes - Marvel Heroes Omega - MMORPG.com

    SBFord said:
    For those arguing on the validity of a news story, let me remind you of the definition of "news":

    noun, ( usually used with a singular verb)
    1. a report of a recent event; intelligence; information:
    His family has had no news of his whereabouts for months.
    2.The presentation of a report on recent or new events in a newspaper or other periodical or on radio or television.
    3. such reports taken collectively; information reported: There's good news tonight.


    This is why the story is being laid out. The charge of "fake news" is just a smokescreen to stop people from objectively determining the validity of the information presented and their personal reaction to it. The tactic is the new "thing" these days and is only used by those who want to see information flow in only one pre-determined direction.

    The news item is not an endorsement. It is not an opinion. It is a fact about something that has happened with regard to a game that many people on this site have loved and miss since it shut down.

    If anyone reading this is not doing their own due diligence when visiting the IndieGoGo page, then then that is on them, not on MMORPG.com. Once again I will reiterate that I have a lot more faith in the intelligence of this community to figure out what is legit and what is a scam. Everyone must decide for themselves.

    Information is power. Critical thinking is key. Learn about all sides through research and make a decision based on all the facts.
    Sadly, @SBFord, the strength of many of this community's members appears to be 'shouting down' anything discussion that they don't personally agree with.  Welcome to my world.

    Bonus kudos for using 'salient' in a forum post.

  • Pre-Alpha Testers Being Invited in for a Looksee at a Literally Growing Game - Pantheon: Rise of the

    Nyctelios said:
    Even that I love to see this project progress I really don't like this "feedback from payers" approach. Game testers followed procedures and were qualified for the job.. Those people just paid.
    The whole Pay-to-Test angle reminds me of an old Benny Hill bit (Americanized here).

    "I just got a job in porn at $20 a day."
    "$20 a day?  That's pretty cheap."
    "It was all I could afford."
  • Bethesda & Lynda Carter Throw Shade at Other Publishers & Vow to #SavePlayer1 - Elder Scrolls Online

    Sovrath said:

    SBFord said:

    This is awesome. :D Who doesn't love Lynda Carter! :D

    She was one of my first "TV loves" ...

    And we all know what that means ;)
    Restraining order?  I framed mine.