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Torval

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Torval
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  • Visionary Realms Wants to Know Where You Draw the Line on RMT, F2P & More - Pantheon: Rise of the Fa

    BruceYee said:
    Torval said:
    kitarad said:
    I am reading the responses and one thing I am thinking is how stingy people are about the games they play. They want old models to work because they worked before but news alert they aren't working so well now. Everything is dependent on a threshold of population below which they might as well shut the game down.

    Go on with your delusions. Every failing game is blamed on WoW. May be it is time we paid more for the games we play since we play them daily. They should really charge people by the hour best way to monetize.
    I mostly agree, but I'm a bit more cynical. They want old models to work because it was cheap and the people constantly bitching about P2W don't want to spend more than 50 cents a day. If they pay the 50 cents they can pat themselves on the back like they're actually contributing because they think that's all a studio needs.
    How can you assume that people who don't want P2W in their games only want to pay a sub model? On top of that bold assumption you insult those who want to support a game even if it's in the smallest amount because perhaps that's all they can afford or feel the game is deserving of.

    Maybe people who want a sub model don't want the focus of the development to shift from game development to cash shop development like it has in almost every single current MMO.
    If all you'll pay is what you feel it deserves then you'll get what you pay for. People suggesting a simple sub are making a suggestion that won't keep the boat afloat in the long term. They're doing that for selfish reasons and not thinking of what it takes to keep the project running.

    It doesn't matter what imaginary or real demons you think a sub will keep you away from. It only matters if you can keep the project afloat. All that pontificating at $15/mo won't do you a bit of good if it can't keep the doors open. An insignificant contribution is just there to stroke the ego.

    If you want a good game. Don't be a cheapskate.
    IselinGdemami
  • Visionary Realms Wants to Know Where You Draw the Line on RMT, F2P & More - Pantheon: Rise of the Fa

    kitarad said:
    I am reading the responses and one thing I am thinking is how stingy people are about the games they play. They want old models to work because they worked before but news alert they aren't working so well now. Everything is dependent on a threshold of population below which they might as well shut the game down.

    Go on with your delusions. Every failing game is blamed on WoW. May be it is time we paid more for the games we play since we play them daily. They should really charge people by the hour best way to monetize.
    I mostly agree, but I'm a bit more cynical. They want old models to work because it was cheap and the people constantly bitching about P2W don't want to spend more than 50 cents a day. If they pay the 50 cents they can pat themselves on the back like they're actually contributing because they think that's all a studio needs.
    Gdemamiblueturtle13
  • Visionary Realms Wants to Know Where You Draw the Line on RMT, F2P & More - Pantheon: Rise of the Fa

    It seems to be working well for ESO, except they have loot crates as an additional source. I made that list with a dedicated niche audience in mind. If a smaller group isn't willing to pay a little more then they're unlikely to ever see their MMO. That's why, in this case, I think it's important to spread the costs as evenly among the players as possible. You have a $10 range in predictable revenue plus some cash shop and game time tokens.

    I don't think a simple $15 sub alone is practical for niche MMOs. I would prefer to pay a box fee for a game and nothing more until the next box fee. In the end I think it doesn't matter. There is a revenue goal. The real question is, how to best split that up among the players?

    That specific tiered sub is just a brainstorm idea. The idea is to provide tiered benefits to a more premium sub as opposed to solely leveraging the cash shop for extra revenue. The cash shop can still be part of the equation.

    What does a premium sub mean to people, more specifically Pantheon fans? What do the people who will actually pay for and play the game want out of a premium sub. Will a tiered sub work with that community? If not how can VR leverage revenue streams?
    MadFrenchieblueturtle13Gdemami
  • Visionary Realms Wants to Know Where You Draw the Line on RMT, F2P & More - Pantheon: Rise of the Fa

    DataDay said:
    DMKano said:
    People here who think that all games can survive without a cash shop are simply misinformed because they have never seen the internal financials for MMOs.

    In majority of cases today - MMOs absolutely *need* cash shop revenue to cover the dev cost and pay the bills including employee salaries and hosting/operational costs.

    ....

    It's easy to say "oh it's just pure greed, cash shops are not needed" from your comfy chair and be a armchair MMO CFO though




    That is just simply NOT true. What you are expressing is whats known as confirmation bias.

    Cash Shops are our gift from the Asian mmorpg scene. The reason cash shops were their primary revenue source was due to PC Arcades/Net Cafes being the cultural norm over there. You would rent time on a computer, as such the f2p model was geared towards PC Arcade/Net Cafe gaming culture. Their revenue came from cash shops primarily because of that gaming culture.

    Here in the west, we DO NOT have that culture. It was never necessary either. Cash shops came along with asian localization into the west. Since it was somewhat successful, western publishers combined both since hey, more money!

    That is all there is to it.

    Careful on the assumption that everyone with this position/understanding is coming from a place of "ignorance". You do not know works in the industry, who has worked in the industry or who knows what about the publishing world. One could easily just turn it around and say, "oh its easy to claim cash shops are required, like some armchair CFO". Would it be any more valid? No.

    Cash Shops are not a requirement, nor a necessity, they are simply an adopted business model publishers picked up on after seeing the kind of money Asian mmorpgs brought in with such a model. The practice has been becoming normalized, not due to need, but behavior and the belief it is accepted (to which, based on some of your relies, it is).


    It's fairly apparent subscription locked mmos didn't work either. So you're not telling the whole story, or rather you're telling the bits of the story that make your point sound right. So if you're and insider like you're implying you should show the entire picture.

    And don't ding him for confirmation bias when you went on to editorialize with no facts to support your argument of authority. Your entire post reads like, I'm an authority figure, but won't do full disclosure, so what I say is right. Maybe you're right, but I need facts and proof and the Paul Harvey Page 2 and Rest of the Story pieces you left out.
    blueturtle13
  • Prime Progression Server to Launch on March 7th - Rift - MMORPG.com

    Scorchien said:
    Torval said:
    I wonder how many people here have played Rift for more than a year straight without interruption. I wonder how many accounts even play a single MMO dedicated for a year straight. I don't mean you login every once in a while to dink around, but are playing and progressing, say 8 hours a week or more.

    I can see caring that you get to keep your character and progress, but not if the server name changes once you've moved on. Is anyone here complaining about that even playing Rift right now, full time?
    I played Rift for just over 2 years straight , Left just a couple months after F2P ... Trion fucked that game up with there monetization ..... Still play UO after 20 years ... Played EQ2 for 3-4 years straight ... and others ..

      I would guess that a large portion of "This" community has played "X" game over a year straight, I realize the data  does not back that up off of the genre as a whole , but This comunity is a bit Niche and  mostly comprised of Vet players ..

      I for one wont touch this Rift server unless they are going to keep it up .. But burnt by Trion to many times .. in Rift .. in Archeage... in Defiance ........ there track record is terrible when it come to giving a fuck about there community .............. They DOnt ...  There history proves that ,they have frequently lied ,deceived , baitnswitch .. etc and it does not matter to me any longer what any of there schills or community manager say when spreading there propaganda ...  They cant be trusted ..

    I definitely would not encourage you to participate in this. My point is that most people complaining probably haven't played the game dedicated for a year straight. I mean even in your examples, how many MMOs can you play dedicated at 8+ hours a week at the same time? There's a lot of overlap there between UO, Rift, EQ2, and whatever else.

    I can see you're pretty worked up about it. I get that you hate them so I'm not sure why pounding away on it if you're not even interested in this. I'm not trusting them with anything. It's not that big of a deal. We're talking about a time locked event server for fun, not long term personal relationships built on love and trust.
    DMKano