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I feel like we opened that loot crate. The industry is exploiting it in accordance with their nature. We really need to take responsibility for our part of the situation we're in or we can't move forward. The industry only has the control we give it. If it's a monster then it's because we fed it to be that way.laserit said:I hear yaTorval said:There are people unwilling to pay a small one-off box fee for WH40K: Inquisitor Martyr as you can see in this thread. https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/475221/season-1-trailer-the-drukhari-have-arrived-warhammer-40k-inquisitor-martyr-videos-mmorpg-com#latestPeople are haggling over $10 for a game they want to play. This is why MMOs are in the cash shop loot crate hell state they're in now. People want that first class AAA game play experience, but they're not willing to pay for it.With the mindset of "I would if it were $10 cheaper" the signal is sent that they won't really pay at all so the alternative is to offer second rate F2P experience with an expensive cash shop. People are saying one thing and signalling another with their wallets and attitudes.There is no way out of this mess. There are no good pragmatic alternatives. We're fucked and this is why. This is why I'm moving out of MMOs and other GaaS. I'm there to play around in a game world, not play money games to what the minimum viable cash outlay is required for a fun time. I could do that at Disneyland.
It's a Pandora's box that was opened by the Industry.
Good points. I wish you would have included https://www.fig.co/ in your article. Fig is an industry insider attempt at building a games funding and delivery platform, moving crowd funding and indie marketing forward. It still has rough spots, and could be more robust concerning project accountability, but is markedly better than generic offerings in a few aspects (such as investment). If CF (Crowd Funding) and indie dev and publishing is going to thrive, the environment will need to mature. This is an attempt at that I think.Red_Thomas said:
When it comes to MMOs, crowdfunding is simply a way to market the game and get like 5% of the funds needed for the entire game.
The reality is - a successful crowdfunding campaign means little as far as MMOs getting completed - so as long as everyone is aware of that and sets expectations accordingly, I dont see a problem with it.
Its only bad when people expect a guaranteed result from their donation.
I don't take issue with the general idea of what you're saying, but it's not totally true. MMOs are not going to get enough from a crowdfunding campaign to develop the whole game, that's absolutely true. It's also in part a marketing move, but definitely not completely.
MMOs that use crowdfunding, and frankly most other games, are actually using it in place of an early seed round. They're getting capital together to move to that next step. Typically by the time they crowdfund, they've roughed together a proof of concept and some early design. The campaign gives them the capital to expand the team and actually get started on the project.
If that second (crowdfunded) phase is successful, they collect additional capital from another source. Additional investor rounds as Crowfall's done, a cash shop as Shroud and several other games have done, or daily deliveries on the hype train as Star Citizen has done.
So the crowdfunding does go into a specific step in the process. It's not just a portion of this total budget, from what I've seen. It's to raise money to get to that next phase in the model where revenue can come in from other places. The problem is that the restraints imposed by crowdfunding are around long after the funds have done their work.
You should use joke tags. How would I know you were making a joke and not discussing the topic?Aeander said:It was a joke, not an allegation. No need to get into legalese.Torval said:No. In the software world there is a huge difference. It's not even considered in the same realm. WB and its partner used code directly from Bethesda without permission. On the other hand Bethesda markets to a gaming community that likes to mod games. Making the comparison is false and misrepresents what is happening. This isn't even akin to open source applications receiving code commits from non-team members.Aeander said:If true, shame on WB. The whole thing is kind of ironic though, considering that Bethesda's 1st party games have sold solely off of the work and code of others (modders) for years now.
One is using code in their core app and the other is allowing modifications of ancillary files but not modifying the core code base. Software licensing, what you can attach, and what you can't, and how is covered in the license.