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  • Final Fantasy XIV - Stormblood, 10 Weeks On - MMORPG.com

    As I've been saying for a while, they've already demonstrated how to give people a variety of content to do between expansions, by doing so for years in FFXI.

    In FFXI, at any given time, there were multiple different goals you could be working toward. Every one of them was rewarding in its own right, and each had its own unique systems, rules and objectives.

    Let's take PoTD for example. It's a neat system and provided people with something other than the usual grind they'd been doing to level up. But that's it. That's all you got in HW (well, except for Diadem 2.0, which also fell short).

    Meanwhile, let's look at what similarly "event type" content was introduced during the timespan of just one expansion in FFXI - Treasures of Aht Urghan. This is content which, like PoTD and DIadem, exists aside from story missions and side-quests, new zones, and other content you'd expect to have with any expansion.

    ToAU introduced: Assault, Nyzul Isle Investigation, Salvage, Einherjar, Besieged, and possibly something else I'm forgetting about. Now, just about any those systems by itself had more depth, variety and longevity than any comparable system FFXIV has introduced so far, since 2.0/Realm Reborn. Don't take my word for it. Hop on Google and look up the Assault system by itself. Or Nyzul Isle. Look how much each of those systems entailed.

    Those systems remained active and relevant throughout all of Aht Urghan's cycle, and beyond. People were still engaged into that content even into the following expansions, alongside all the other new content added. They didn't peak for a few weeks, and then fall into near complete disuse once the novelty wore off and people had sucked all the usefulness out of them, such as with Diadem or PoTD, etc.

    The thing that baffles me is, why? Why, in a MMO developed around 2000, on far more limited hardware, *for* far more limited hardware (FFXI was locked to dial-up connection speeds, for example)... why were they able to deliver so much more content, with so much more variety and depth, and keep it relevant for so much longer than Yoshida and his team have so far with anything they've done in FFXIV?

    I don't think I ever heard of anyone in FFXI feeling like they had to do the same repetitive grind for months waiting for the next update, or expansion, because there was nothing else to do. I certainly never heard the Director or Producer suggesting people should go play something else while waiting for the next update - because there was plenty to keep them playing in the meantime. In my experience (anecdotal as it may be, though it's many people, across nearly a decade), people would go into a new expansion still working toward goals they'd set during the previous one.

    This is why I'm disappointed with FFXIV, and get frustrated with Yoshida when he spins these absurd excuses for not adding more new options, while over-hyping the meager, short-lived offerings that are, as though it's *so much new content*!. It's why it's so aggravating to see how he seems so satisfied with what he's delivered with FFXIV. I *know* SE can do more than they are with FFXIV. They can do a *lot* more with it. I know this because *they already have* with another of their own titles, with far inferior technology and resources, and without the benefit of having a successful previous MMORPG to refer to and learn from.

    I just don't get it.

    siamesedadsSinfulChristirwenRukushinirrealitydaltaniousKumaponvaloiz
  • BORING

    Golelorn said:

    You can level in ESO in less than 2 days hard play to 50. Of course, a new player can't do that - you need resources. But what game can a new player level to max quickly? And... I do agree with you. Leveling faster should be an option in ESO. I do find it tiresome. Buts its the genre.. not the game.

    Also, do not forget. Once at 50 you do not have to regrind CP.

    And if you think a max CP toon should be had quickly.... wow. CP is better than gear in ESO. A naked 660 CP toon is stronger than a max gear CP 160 toon.
    I don't agree that it "should be an option".

    But here's a question to that end: Why?

    What is it about getting to the end, especially in a genre that's decidedly about the adventure (~90% of the game takes place before the end and contains the vast, vast majority of the content), that makes people feel they have to race to get there?

    I'm sincerely curious about this, because it seems to me people are just stunting and undermining their own experience by playing this way. Time and again, they race to the end, skipping through cutscenes/dialogue, avoiding content that "isn't worth the reward" and generally tracking the "most efficient path to level cap". Then they burn through the end-game content in a few weeks, and are left bored with "nothing to do" because they just raced past/through all of it.

    People will dismiss everything pre-level cap by saying "it's just a tutorial", or "it's just filler", or "it's just there to slow you down so you'll have to play longer". There's a boat load of problems with that last one in particular, especially for as often as I see it argued; of course they want you to stick around as long as possible.. it's at the heart of the business and the design. MMORPGs are long-term hobbies. They're services. They aren't intended to be something you just shoot through, finish, and put down. You can. But that's not what they're designed as. This is why they continually add new content... to give you more to do and more reason to keep playing.

    But here's the catch to that which people never seem to consider... they have to make sure you're entertained enough to stick around at all in the first place. If they can't keep you engaged and wanting to log in to begin with, then the rest doesn't matter.

    It baffles me how people literally complain about a game which, by design, is intended to keep them engaged for a long time... because it provides content which keeps them playing for a long time. It's like complaining that motorcycles "only have 2 wheels and no side windows to keep the air out". It completely misses the point of the design.

    To my mind, it's the most counter-intuitive approach you can take to playing a game at all, much less one specifically designed around on-going adventure; unless it's specifically a racing game where getting to a finish line the fastest is the goal.

    Racing to the end in a MMORPG results only in on-going lay-overs and holding patterns, as players wait for the next batch of end-game content to roll in, so they can race through that and find themselves right back in the same position. That doesn't sound fun to me at all... and from all the complaints of "boredom" I see from such people across the genre, it's clearly not. So why do people obsessively and repeatedly engage in that kind of playstyle? That whole "definition of insanity" thing comes to mind. Why race toward what is ultimately going to be nothing but extended stretches of boredom, punctuated by shorter periods of entertainment?

    Another common thing I see said is "I don't have enough time, and it takes too long to do "x" in -insert game here-". This is another statement that sounds valid on its face, but rather falls apart when you think about it further. Of course you have the time to play the game... you're playing it. The problem isn't a "lack of time", it's that you want to be able to obtain/achieve something in a quicker time-frame than your available time allows. This is where the whole "I have a career and family and can't spend hours playing MMOs like I used to. Therefor MMOs should change to fit my schedule/lifestyle better" type of arguments come from.

    People find it unfair that someone with more time to play can achieve things "more quickly" than they can. It's perfectly fair. At the end of the day, you're both going to be facing the same challenges and obstacles, and probably the same overall amount of in-game time played (not "real world time" - important distinction there) to achieve that goal. The difference is in how that time is distributed. Is it across one 10 hour session, five 2 hour sessions, or some other breakdown?

    What people are really saying when they say "I don't have the time" is, "I don't have the time to sit and achieve that goal in a single session like someone with 10 hours to play does, and I don't like that". Then, they expect the game devs to change the design so they can have that goal in a single session. It's a completely self-entitled mentality. The game developer is not responsible for their players' life decisions. The players are. Devs are responsible for producing a product that people will want to stick around and play. They are not responsible for catering to every individual's life circumstances.

    Rather than saying "I have more limited time to play so here's what the devs should do", the responsible, reasonable thing to say, I think, is "I have more limited play time, how should I re-prioritize and plan my play sessions to achieve my goals accordingly?". It's what people did back in the "old school days" - yes, there were people playing EQ1 and DAoC and UO and all those games who balanced playtime with careers and families and such as well. They adapted to their situation. They didn't demand or expect that the developers do so. Big difference.

    Long rant there... lol. But it's pretty much what goes through my mind when ever I see posts where people talk about how it "takes too long" or "should be faster". There's so much behind such statements.
    IselinDemogorgonlaseritGhostRider00gervaise1
  • Why experience should have been removed at release

    Aragon100 said:

    Jordizzle - Went to a shardfall today, came across another player who attacked and killed me with one shot while I was halfway dead from fighting a golem. That costed me 2k to get my equipment back from the ransom system. Not a big deal for me as I've built up some gold through the many releases. .So I then tried to take this player head on after I resurrected, (because I always have to know if I could win in an actual fair situation or not). . and died in 2 spells this time. Lost another 1k getting my items back from the ransom system.


    Are you seriously crusading against this game vicariously through other people's posts?

    Really? Are you trying for Patron Sainthood or something?

    Do you play this game yourself, at all?

    Here's the problem with your their complaint....
    1. All else being equal, anyone who starts months after someone else, will always be behind that person.
    2. Even if everyone was wiped and started at zero, there will still be players whom will play more, progress faster, and ultimately still be able to over-power out out-play their opponents... "fresh wipe" or no.
    3. Being overpowered and/or outnumbered in a PvP MMO should be expected. PvP encounters are seldom ever "fair" or equal, no matter how long someone has been playing. Even the most progressed and prepared veteran can have their ass kicked by a group of statistically 'weaker' players.

    In other words, while it might make some people "feel better" to have everyone start from 0 in the short term... in the long term it makes no difference. A few months, or even weeks down the road, they'll be just as over-powered by other players. Only they'd have to blame their loss on "the other person hacking" or "exploiting" or whatever other default excuse people make when they can't handle that someone simply played better than them.

    It's a nice short-term cushion for one's ego to think "if only everyone were started on an even playing field, that wouldn't happen", but it's not any kind of realistic long-term "solution". The only way to mitigate it is to get better at your chosen class/role/build, play more defensively, be more prepared, travel in groups when possible, learn routes that are less likely for encounters, and ultimately, understand when you're playing a PvP MMO, you're going to be killed by other players, often when you're not prepared to fight them, and it will almost never be an equal/fair fight.

    This has been true through every PvP MMO I've ever played... Lineage 1, Lineage 2, Asheron's Call, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Eve, and on and on. And in every case, there's always people insisting that "it's not fair that people who've played longer can beat them, and something should be done about it". The only way they can avoid it is stop playing an open PvP MMO.

    KyleranViper482postlarvalGdemami
  • So I was playing ESO - captured this screenshot.


    I rather like that shot. Also a very unexpected place to end up considering where that quest begins.

    Kudos to whom ever can identify where that is!
    TorvalJean-Luc_PicardTeala
  • Lets talk about Nostalgia

    Nilden said:
    I know this may sound crazy but if people enjoyed playing a game years ago and still enjoy playing it today, they might just enjoy playing the game. No nostalgia needed.
    But many just don't. The game is still there, but they don't play it. Go figure.
    That's a gross over-simplification.

    A game may still be around today, but it may be very different from what someone enjoyed "back then". 

    Your remark is still kind of in the same vein as people who say "people have been clamoring for a true open-world PvP MMO with full loot, but then why aren't all these people playing "-insert MMO title here-"? It must mean that gamestyle isn't  really isn't what people want!". It's a very lazy argument. Just because something fits a description, doesn't mean it does it *well*.

    It would be like saying "you've been wanting a steakhouse in the area for years, but now that there is one, you're not going! It must mean you don't really like steak!". In fact, what it means is "I like steak, but the restaurant in question serves poor quality food".

    Using myself as an example...

    I played FFXI religiously for almost 9 years. Had no plans of ever stopping 'til they took the servers down. 

    Then they introduced Abyssea, which DRASTICALLY changed the game, and the way people approached it, into something I no longer enjoyed. 

    If they  hadn't changed it the way they did, I'd still be playing and paying a sub.

    Same with Lineage 2. Played that for about 4 years and intended to continue.. then Goddess of Destruction blew all that away, and L2 was no longer the game I enjoyed. So I stopped.

    Nostalgia didn't keep me playing FFXI for 9 years. It didn't keep me playing L2 for 4. A genuine enjoyment of the game *as it was* is what kept me there. Each game is no longer what I enjoyed, so I have no desire to go back... except, of course, for the nostalgia of running around in Vana'diel or Aden... but that's fleeting.
    Sovrathikcin
  • Ridiculous In Game Housing System

    Yes it is a reward and help funding but it is also a headstart for the few that can afford a +500$ house. Especially since they got a headstart when placing it.

    ... and, to repeat myself, I don't see that as a problem.

    The option was open to anyone with the wherewithal and desire to buy into it at that level...which, by the way, does not require one to be "rich" to do so.

    A PS4 with a game can still approach $500. A 1TB XBone can cost $499 by itself. An NVidia GTX1070 (nevermind a 1080)  can go for up to $600... A whole PC can cost $1k and much higher.

    Are you suggesting that all those things are targeted only toward rich people? By your logic, they must be.

    Would you argue that someone capable of earning the funds to build a new gaming PC, or buy a mdoern gaming console wouldn't be also able to accrue the $500 needed for a higher-tier plot/house in SoTA if they so wished? Your logic about "$500+ = Rich people" would seem to indicate so. Yet it doesn't bear out at all in reality, just like everything else you've said.

    It is a way for developer's to say we care about the real life rich first and then we care about the not so rich. That havent worked out that well have it? A population of max 1000 isnt a game i would call successful. would you? =)

    Being able to afford $500+ does not require one to be rich. I've already addressed that.

    For your other highly dubious remark: Correlation =/= Causation

    You dont have an opinion? You want to keep experience gained and housing placed before release?
    You mean the opinion I've already expressed in previous posts about the subject?
    Instead of me repeating myself, might I suggest that you actually read what I've said?

    You seem upset by the negative response i deliver and i wonder why?
    Uh huh.

    So, tell ya what... Let me know when you've finished talking to the straw-me in your head, so you can continue talking to the actual me.

    Also, if you could be so kind, please go back and actually read my posts, and stop  asking me things I've already answered? Thank you.

    Kyleran
  • Patch 4.05 Preview: The Lost Canals of Uznair - Final Fantasy XIV - MMORPG.com

    "The Lost Canals of Uznair that "is the same as Aquapolis" but features new, fresh enemies to face off against."

    FFXIV's direction in a nutshell

    If something receives an even moderately positive response, and doesn't completely fail on release (ie. Diadem 1 and 2.. Verminion, etc), keep regurgitating the same design over and over, 'til players get sick of it... ignore them and keep repeating it.