Originally posted by Wildcat84 No one looking to get into SWG is going to come to this site without reading this forum. Particularly since it has 5 times the posts and activity.
Don't worry about them spreading propaganda, because nothing they are saying about the game is true in reality.
Hell, the more they convince people to try SWGNGE, the better. They won't like it. They will see the massive bugs, lack of content, and half assed work. In other words, by sucking them in they increase OUR numbers in the end, they come here and learn about the game they missed, and the game they could have, if we could convince SOE to come to their senses.
Out of curiosity, why is it when someone who enjoys a feature of a game that others dissagree with it's considered propaganda? I'm not asking to call anyone out or be snarky, I'm genuinely interested in this.
People like Obraik, Fadeus and others will typically be the one's that point out the glarring issues that SWG has but they also play the game and enjoy some of the better points it has to offer. Sure, it may not be for everyone, and you might (obviously) not agree with those points but just because you don't agree, is that why it's propaganda?
I guess what I'm saying is that maybe it would be different if these people just kinda went about saying how great SOE is and how wonderful SWG is and how everything is shiny and roses but to my knowledge, no one does that here, unless you can show me a post statting otherwise?
Again, not trying to be snarky or start anything, I'm just curious as to why you think so poorly of them.
Was the pre-CU perfect? Far from it. But it had the saving grace of having a LOT that was great about it, and that it was the only system this game has had that was truly ambitious enough to justify the Star Wars franchise.
You just can't compare the two. The former was truly ambitious, the first real innovation, the first real step forward attempted in MMOs since the birth of the industry. The latter is nothing but stripping out all that innovation, scope, and huge feel to devolve the game into being what every other MMO is, oh, with 1/10th the content any other MMO has. I've been playing EQ2 since this weekend and the amount of content in that game is STAGGERING... This is the mistake they made, they should have left the systems alone except for tweaks and additions and spent the last 2 years making CONTENT...
What the NGE supporters are ignoring is that the stuff that they find issue with in the game are things that have always been glaring issues, that SOE has never bothered to fix because 3+ years later they still are fiddling with the foundation. Go read the patch notes in reverse, from the NGE backwards and you see REAL advances in the game. Read them the way they happened you see stuff being continually stripped, and only recently have they started adding crumbs back.
Clearly more believe us than them anyway, if we were wrong and the NGE lovers right, the subscriber number would be heading up, not down right?
Originally posted by Wildcat84 Was the pre-CU perfect? Far from it. But it had the saving grace of having a LOT that was great about it, and that it was the only system this game has had that was truly ambitious enough to justify the Star Wars franchise.
You just can't compare the two. The former was truly ambitious, the first real innovation, the first real step forward attempted in MMOs since the birth of the industry. The latter is nothing but stripping out all that innovation, scope, and huge feel to devolve the game into being what every other MMO is, oh, with 1/10th the content any other MMO has. I've been playing EQ2 since this weekend and the amount of content in that game is STAGGERING... This is the mistake they made, they should have left the systems alone except for tweaks and additions and spent the last 2 years making CONTENT...
What the NGE supporters are ignoring is that the stuff that they find issue with in the game are things that have always been glaring issues, that SOE has never bothered to fix because 3+ years later they still are fiddling with the foundation. Go read the patch notes in reverse, from the NGE backwards and you see REAL advances in the game. Read them the way they happened you see stuff being continually stripped, and only recently have they started adding crumbs back.
Clearly more believe us than them anyway, if we were wrong and the NGE lovers right, the subscriber number would be heading up, not down right?
I'm not saying I dissagree with you in any way in regards to SWG, I loved SWG, played from Beta to shortly after NGE and left because of it. I was sad, sure, but I let it go, it's a game.
With all the horrible messes of NGE though and everything else asside, you still havn't answered my question. I have never seen Obraik, nor anyone else, say that everything is perfect and nothing needs to be fixed. In fact I've seen them write posts that are just as passionate about the problems as die hard SOE haters.
So again, why is it when they simply speak their minds, about a game they enjoy, regarding things they might have fun with, or see happening and be involved in, that their points of view of automatically Propagandy (as you put it) and not just that, someone's point of view.
There's no denying the issues of the game, again to re-iterate I think we all know and can harp on those for hours, but it seems like your saying that because they (specifically now) still enjoy some aspects of the game, that they are wrong, period. And not for any deep, meaningfull reason but simply because you say so?
Like I said, I agree with you with the games issues, but I'm just trying to understand why you feel I should dismiss their oppinions over yours. As a gamer who enjoy's games completely, would it not be smarter of me to listen to everyone's oppinions for what they are?
Originally posted by Wildcat84 Was the pre-CU perfect? Far from it. But it had the saving grace of having a LOT that was great about it, and that it was the only system this game has had that was truly ambitious enough to justify the Star Wars franchise.
You just can't compare the two. The former was truly ambitious, the first real innovation, the first real step forward attempted in MMOs since the birth of the industry. The latter is nothing but stripping out all that innovation, scope, and huge feel to devolve the game into being what every other MMO is, oh, with 1/10th the content any other MMO has. I've been playing EQ2 since this weekend and the amount of content in that game is STAGGERING... This is the mistake they made, they should have left the systems alone except for tweaks and additions and spent the last 2 years making CONTENT...
What the NGE supporters are ignoring is that the stuff that they find issue with in the game are things that have always been glaring issues, that SOE has never bothered to fix because 3+ years later they still are fiddling with the foundation. Go read the patch notes in reverse, from the NGE backwards and you see REAL advances in the game. Read them the way they happened you see stuff being continually stripped, and only recently have they started adding crumbs back.
Clearly more believe us than them anyway, if we were wrong and the NGE lovers right, the subscriber number would be heading up, not down right?
Well that and it being called a mistake by it's own execs and President of the company, so yeah lol.
The way I try to look at this is now is simply a product. People say the words, "Holding a grudge" or "Bashing SOE" or things making it sound like this was unfounded or even better yet not needed.
This is no different then buying a bowl of soup at a resturaunt and finding a Roach in it, you tend not to go right back to that place, get a bowl of soup and not wonder what is in it. At the same time, if the owner of the resturaunt came out, told you the soup was a "mistake" they should not have made it you tend not to buy it or want it.
This is not really a grudge, this is just plain common sense. People saying "oh your just mad for no reason" stuff is kinda funny at this point. I think we pretty much got past that one a long time ago.
I like this one, "Hey, your brakes on your car were a mistake, do not make them like we did, but go ahead and drive that car on the mountain side, you should be fine".... Yeah, ok.
There is a difference between a grudge and using common sense.
(Oh and my opinion of what common sense is along the lines of "Do not stick your had on a hot stove".. I should be clear here bcause my version of common sense may not be the same as other peoples which of course is ok.. each to his own.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by shae Ya'know... I think this just goes to prove, no matter what you do, you just can't make everybody happy. The staff here at mmorpg.com are bending over backwards to make you, me and everyone else here happy, they are trying to find a happy medium between giving everyone a voice while making sure everyone is comfortable and is able to have that voice heard without being torn into by someone who has a grudge. And what... still, that's not enough for you?
A good compromise leave everyone unhappy
Originally posted by shae People like Obraik, Fadeus and others will typically be the one's that point out the glarring issues that SWG has but they also play the game and enjoy some of the better points it has to offer. Sure, it may not be for everyone, and you might (obviously) not agree with those points but just because you don't agree, is that why it's propaganda?
Well in Obraiks case he tends to gloss right on over every flaw in the game to say its brillent and amazing in every last possible way. I wouldn't go as far as to call it propoganda but his spining of everything about the game in the best possible way and not ever mentioning anything wrong with it does annoy at times. I'm also sure he doesn't mean it that way and he is just trying to be a counter voice on these forums about the game because he honestly enjoys the game. He certainly doesn't have an attitude problem and treat anyone that dislikes the game with contempt like Unagi tends too.
When posters started speculating which 'fanbois' worked for SOE, I thought that was a good indication of how manic the 'veteran' community had become.
I totally agree with splitting the communities, and allowing fans of the current game to enjoy a friendly forum. In the least, 'veterans' should be thankful that MMORG.COM created a forum to continue the general rants, and occasional constructive discussion.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Originally posted by Dekron Why were the forums setup? 1) To stop the bickering between pre and post NGE players. Discussion is healthy. Especially back and forth. It makes this place interesting to visit and read. I dont read any of your other forums. I tried the GW one but its dead and offers no topical discussion of any sort. 2) To stop the constant attacks on new players asking valid questions, only then to be attacked by someone who still possesses a grudge against SOE for the NGE. Someone stabbed a new player (A JOKE)? 99% of all the posts told new players there honest review of the game and to try the trial and see for themselves about the games condition. I find this point erroneous of fact.
3) For vets to come speak how they liked the game before NGE without being attacked by post NGE fans and vice versa. Honestly, most of us like and respect Obriak, Fad and others playing the nge. Pirrg is a problem. I dont think there was a lot of what you refer to and what existed required minor moderation imo.
4) So we didn't have to completely wipe the SWG forums and delete every thread created - past and present. I do not understand what this has to do with anything or how it at all relates.
5) Because us mods, staff members, and other members are getting sick of the multitude of daily reports and offenses coming from the constant attacks between each "faction". How does this stop that?
These were not created to segregate pre and post players. Either preference can post in either forum. If you (this is generally speaking) post something negative in either forums about post or pre, this is fine, however, if it results in unconstructive posts such as "SOE SUCKS", "I HATE SWG", "SWG SUXXORS!", etc. or if you attack another member, you will be dealt with properly. If you have multiple warnings, you will be banned. If you were banned before for a similar offense, more than likely you will be perm banned. Ok on the personal attacks. I will follow this rule. I cannot wait to see what gets defined as a personal attack. That is a HUGE list. So giving your review of SWG and the game company SOE is now prohibited? Quiet frankly the review of SWG sucking is a pretty valid view and most of us have pretty valid review sources to back up that statement with 3rd party gaming sites pretty much summarizing the same opinion of the game. SOE sucking is a pretty fair review of the company from a multitude of angles be it customer service to technical service to executive management. So if someone comes to the site and says "What do you think of swg?" What is a constructive post if we find the game does indeed suck and soe sucks? Do we have to give a 20 page synophysis of the game or just keep it simple? I am guessing our main man whose avatar is a bash on John Smedley has been issued a warning. Just some thoughts that are constructive feedback against your position which I view as factual junk. My honest opinion is your site is doing this to shut us up and get rid of us. You are sick of the negative feedback we give the 4th ranked mmo company as I see it the only company who doesn't advertise with your gaming site.
Originally posted by Dekron If you (this is generally speaking) post something negative in either forums about post or pre, this is fine, however, if it results in unconstructive posts such as "SOE SUCKS", "I HATE SWG", "SWG SUXXORS!", etc. or if you attack another member, you will be dealt with properly.
Ha... I didn't see this the first time. Did a double take to make sure I wasn't actually on SoE's boards. Virrago, is that you?
Im a NGE/SOE hater to the core; however, i offten felt bad for the kids who would come to the swg forum to ask about SWG only to be flamed for 10 pages for darring to enjoy that steaming pile of matter not fit to be feces we call the NGE.
Its not there falt SOE killed the game we loved to give them the game they enjoy.
I salute mmorpg.com for putting the palyers first.
I would like to see mmorpg.com put a ranking of the worst MMO's on there front page like they have for the best.
This would go along way to show add revenue does not dictate content of this site.
---------------------------------------- will never buy another sony product again, thanks SOE!
Originally posted by haxxjoo Originally posted by Dekron Why were the forums setup? 1) To stop the bickering between pre and post NGE players. Discussion is healthy. Especially back and forth. It makes this place interesting to visit and read. I dont read any of your other forums. I tried the GW one but its dead and offers no topical discussion of any sort. 2) To stop the constant attacks on new players asking valid questions, only then to be attacked by someone who still possesses a grudge against SOE for the NGE. Someone stabbed a new player (A JOKE)? 99% of all the posts told new players there honest review of the game and to try the trial and see for themselves about the games condition. I find this point erroneous of fact.
3) For vets to come speak how they liked the game before NGE without being attacked by post NGE fans and vice versa. Honestly, most of us like and respect Obriak, Fad and others playing the nge. Pirrg is a problem. I dont think there was a lot of what you refer to and what existed required minor moderation imo.
4) So we didn't have to completely wipe the SWG forums and delete every thread created - past and present. I do not understand what this has to do with anything or how it at all relates.
5) Because us mods, staff members, and other members are getting sick of the multitude of daily reports and offenses coming from the constant attacks between each "faction". How does this stop that?
These were not created to segregate pre and post players. Either preference can post in either forum. If you (this is generally speaking) post something negative in either forums about post or pre, this is fine, however, if it results in unconstructive posts such as "SOE SUCKS", "I HATE SWG", "SWG SUXXORS!", etc. or if you attack another member, you will be dealt with properly. If you have multiple warnings, you will be banned. If you were banned before for a similar offense, more than likely you will be perm banned. Ok on the personal attacks. I will follow this rule. I cannot wait to see what gets defined as a personal attack. That is a HUGE list. So giving your review of SWG and the game company SOE is now prohibited? Quiet frankly the review of SWG sucking is a pretty valid view and most of us have pretty valid review sources to back up that statement with 3rd party gaming sites pretty much summarizing the same opinion of the game. SOE sucking is a pretty fair review of the company from a multitude of angles be it customer service to technical service to executive management. So if someone comes to the site and says "What do you think of swg?" What is a constructive post if we find the game does indeed suck and soe sucks? Do we have to give a 20 page synophysis of the game or just keep it simple? I am guessing our main man whose avatar is a bash on John Smedley has been issued a warning. Just some thoughts that are constructive feedback against your position which I view as factual junk. My honest opinion is your site is doing this to shut us up and get rid of us. You are sick of the negative feedback we give the 4th ranked mmo company as I see it the only company who doesn't advertise with your gaming site.
When I say personal attacks, it is just that. Threats, highly offensive insults (including racist, sexist, etc). As far as the "bickering", it was more as of constant attacks against each other with said insults and bashing. New player attacks...yes, there are "jokes", but, yes, there are the same insults, attacks, abuse, etc.
As far as saying something negative about the game itself, well, read the RoC. If you can support why game x sucks, support it with reasons. Do not simply troll and post "GAME X SUCKS" and leave it. Why is this a problem? Because it has led to constant trolling, thread hijacking, etc. We have seen, believe me, that many people have made it what seems their sole purpose, to come in and bash members for their views on SWG, whether good or bad.
If you like the game, fine. If not fine. But it is truely becoming ridiculous. As far as the forum wipe, yes, that was a suggestion that we came up with, a sort of clean slate start, but we found that it would not be a viable option.
As for us getting sick of the reports...look at how many forums and members there are compared the the amount of mods (less than 10). Many, many people have become upset at how portions of this site are becoming (not just SWG), and, when we must devote most of our time policing the SWG forum, it becomes quite an annoyance.
1) To stop the bickering between pre and post NGE players.
Now those who attack the other do it in two forums, not one.
2) To stop the constant attacks on new players asking valid questions, only then to be attacked by someone who still possesses a grudge against SOE for the NGE.
I never saw this as a serious problem, it happened on occassion but not consistently. In fairness, I don't see the reports you get, though.
3) For vets to come speak how they liked the game before NGE without being attacked by post NGE fans and vice versa.
Two observations, both also tie into your point #1:
a) this sure hasn't worked, either way.
b) Stradden made it clear the purpose wasn't to separate the two groups - in fact, both are welcome to comment in each forum on the respective topics, a point you yourself reinforce here - problem is, this further blurs the reasons for the move; if we're all free to post as long as it's done in a mature manner, why have two forums? To be honest and blunt (and I'm not trying to offend you) we're getting conflicting information about the purpose for the move from MMORPG.com folks, too.
4) So we didn't have to completely wipe the SWG forums and delete every thread created - past and present.
That would suck. I don't agree with the move, but I will attempt to help make it work.
5) Because us mods, staff members, and other members are getting sick of the multitude of daily reports and offenses coming from the constant attacks between each "faction".
Now this I can wholeheartedly believe. You all deserve a healthy dose of positive recognition for dealing so well with such a cantakerous, unforgiving groups of grumpy young and ol' farts such as us all. You have been much better than most other forum site, IMHO.
These were not created to segregate pre and post players. Either preference can post in either forum. If you (this is generally speaking) post something negative in either forums about post or pre, this is fine, however, if it results in unconstructive posts such as "SOE SUCKS", "I HATE SWG", "SWG SUXXORS!", etc. or if you attack another member, you will be dealt with properly. If you have multiple warnings, you will be banned. If you were banned before for a similar offense, more than likely you will be perm banned.
Comments in blue, and mods, thanks for your patience with us.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005 Now Playing: World of Warcrack Forum Terrorist
Originally posted by Dekron Originally posted by haxxjoo Originally posted by Dekron Why were the forums setup? 1) To stop the bickering between pre and post NGE players. Discussion is healthy. Especially back and forth. It makes this place interesting to visit and read. I dont read any of your other forums. I tried the GW one but its dead and offers no topical discussion of any sort. 2) To stop the constant attacks on new players asking valid questions, only then to be attacked by someone who still possesses a grudge against SOE for the NGE. Someone stabbed a new player (A JOKE)? 99% of all the posts told new players there honest review of the game and to try the trial and see for themselves about the games condition. I find this point erroneous of fact.
3) For vets to come speak how they liked the game before NGE without being attacked by post NGE fans and vice versa. Honestly, most of us like and respect Obriak, Fad and others playing the nge. Pirrg is a problem. I dont think there was a lot of what you refer to and what existed required minor moderation imo.
4) So we didn't have to completely wipe the SWG forums and delete every thread created - past and present. I do not understand what this has to do with anything or how it at all relates.
5) Because us mods, staff members, and other members are getting sick of the multitude of daily reports and offenses coming from the constant attacks between each "faction". How does this stop that?
These were not created to segregate pre and post players. Either preference can post in either forum. If you (this is generally speaking) post something negative in either forums about post or pre, this is fine, however, if it results in unconstructive posts such as "SOE SUCKS", "I HATE SWG", "SWG SUXXORS!", etc. or if you attack another member, you will be dealt with properly. If you have multiple warnings, you will be banned. If you were banned before for a similar offense, more than likely you will be perm banned. Ok on the personal attacks. I will follow this rule. I cannot wait to see what gets defined as a personal attack. That is a HUGE list. So giving your review of SWG and the game company SOE is now prohibited? Quiet frankly the review of SWG sucking is a pretty valid view and most of us have pretty valid review sources to back up that statement with 3rd party gaming sites pretty much summarizing the same opinion of the game. SOE sucking is a pretty fair review of the company from a multitude of angles be it customer service to technical service to executive management. So if someone comes to the site and says "What do you think of swg?" What is a constructive post if we find the game does indeed suck and soe sucks? Do we have to give a 20 page synophysis of the game or just keep it simple? I am guessing our main man whose avatar is a bash on John Smedley has been issued a warning. Just some thoughts that are constructive feedback against your position which I view as factual junk. My honest opinion is your site is doing this to shut us up and get rid of us. You are sick of the negative feedback we give the 4th ranked mmo company as I see it the only company who doesn't advertise with your gaming site.
When I say personal attacks, it is just that. Threats, highly offensive insults (including racist, sexist, etc). As far as the "bickering", it was more as of constant attacks against each other with said insults and bashing. New player attacks...yes, there are "jokes", but, yes, there are the same insults, attacks, abuse, etc.
As far as saying something negative about the game itself, well, read the RoC. If you can support why game x sucks, support it with reasons. Do not simply troll and post "GAME X SUCKS" and leave it. Why is this a problem? Because it has led to constant trolling, thread hijacking, etc. We have seen, believe me, that many people have made it what seems their sole purpose, to come in and bash members for their views on SWG, whether good or bad.
If you like the game, fine. If not fine. But it is truely becoming ridiculous. As far as the forum wipe, yes, that was a suggestion that we came up with, a sort of clean slate start, but we found that it would not be a viable option.
As for us getting sick of the reports...look at how many forums and members there are compared the the amount of mods (less than 10). Many, many people have become upset at how portions of this site ar becoming (not just SWG), and, when we must devot most of our time policing the SWG forum, it becomes quite an annoyance.
Thanks for the comments.
Consider a scenario:
as a new player to SWG, i seek info on this game i just subscribed to, i visit mmorpg.com, check out swg:general (before the split up of the boards) and after posting my questions "on areas to grind lvl 10+ or grouping", or anything in general, i start receiving replies. All replies with info that really doesnt help me or answer my question.
To MMORPG Mods:
While i understand the reasoning and wisdom of the split up like maybe the scenario above, you have to consider the undertaking of splitting up the SWG forums. I agree yes, but at the same time someone in the decision making office must have thought of the heat it might unlock.
Trolling, thread jacking etc are unfortunately common in any forums thru out the web, modding the forums is must yes, but sometimes its not what you say but how you say it.
Another scenario:
I standup at center stage on a comedy club, say my one line ive been practicing and to my shock, no response from my audience,
Mitch Fatel on the other hand comes up right behind me and repeats the same line, and is given a standing ovation, crowd cant stop laughing.
Its nature, while i think it is sensible to split the forums, i think it just as crucial to develop a better dialog prior to and afterwards a split in the forums, im not saying there wasnt any but a better communication technique might have helped.
To answer the concern among posters about "let it go" or "it just a game" posture:
I do agree its a game, i played nearly 2 yrs prior to NGE, had 3 accounts and took over a 4th (from my brother), i had alot invested, maybe its me cause i try not to take things to personel, but something unique as SWG means alot to me, my 1st MMO. But after i realized there wasnt much i could do after a while, it happened and had to accept it. I did, without missing a stride i took on other MMO's, ........still, it wasnt the same.
I became a frequent browser of this site not because of the Swg "refugee" status here but mainly because i so enjoy reading everyones opinions in the forums general boards - off topics etc. I have to say, i am quite amazed at the amount of opinions, logical debates, and knowledge that is thrown down here. very very interesting, intrigueing would be an understatement in my book.
the SWG boards here just became "window shopping" to me, informative and funny at the same time. But i think it no coincidence that SOE's recent statements about the "dos and donts" of MMO gaming and if i may say "mistakes" of the NGE and recent volitile attitudes and assumptions in these swg boards could be the cause an affect of each other.
These boards in swg no doubt have enticed me to see the latest gossup and rumors if there are any and hopefully true of pre-cu servers, etc, the same maybe could be said of many here, hoping for a change....in their favor. Kinda like "see, i told you so!"
Keeping this in mind Mods:
Splitting up the boards has created heat, and although i will no try to justify it because i simply cannot, as moderator, a proffesional. The way it was done may have been ill will. Maybe if things were left alone, maybe SOE cont. with updates, maybe there will be no pre-cu, then maybe the climate might have adjusted a little. Then again maybe it wouldnt.
These are only my opinions and i dont think they reflect a majority, minority, prob non. I just maybe hope a little more understanding will come from this.
Originally posted by iskareot This is a great idea, however this will also be one of those "be careful what you wish for", things. We know why, most are not that stupid, in fact - I know there is several reasons for this split up. SOE did not do this for a reason, soon I think it will show it's head here. Somthing tells me this could get worse though. The concept is great, but the result may be unwanted.
Hmm . . . it's vaugely ominous and cryptically worded statements like these, Isk, that make me think crazy thoughts like Smedley promising to give you a Classic Server beta key if you'd just shut up and quit bashing the NGE. Probably not anything nearly as sinister - but, then again, if you'll recall (you were in the CU alpha sandbox, right?) I was never one to let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy theory. Anyway, the real reason for the forum split here was to make everybody forget about September 24th - and guess what? It worked.
im very happy with the forum split, now when i want to discuss the game i wont have to wade through 30 threads of hilarious rumours/pleading/crying to find what i want. Its sweet.
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Comments
Out of curiosity, why is it when someone who enjoys a feature of a game that others dissagree with it's considered propaganda? I'm not asking to call anyone out or be snarky, I'm genuinely interested in this.
People like Obraik, Fadeus and others will typically be the one's that point out the glarring issues that SWG has but they also play the game and enjoy some of the better points it has to offer. Sure, it may not be for everyone, and you might (obviously) not agree with those points but just because you don't agree, is that why it's propaganda?
I guess what I'm saying is that maybe it would be different if these people just kinda went about saying how great SOE is and how wonderful SWG is and how everything is shiny and roses but to my knowledge, no one does that here, unless you can show me a post statting otherwise?
Again, not trying to be snarky or start anything, I'm just curious as to why you think so poorly of them.
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You just can't compare the two. The former was truly ambitious, the first real innovation, the first real step forward attempted in MMOs since the birth of the industry. The latter is nothing but stripping out all that innovation, scope, and huge feel to devolve the game into being what every other MMO is, oh, with 1/10th the content any other MMO has. I've been playing EQ2 since this weekend and the amount of content in that game is STAGGERING... This is the mistake they made, they should have left the systems alone except for tweaks and additions and spent the last 2 years making CONTENT...
What the NGE supporters are ignoring is that the stuff that they find issue with in the game are things that have always been glaring issues, that SOE has never bothered to fix because 3+ years later they still are fiddling with the foundation. Go read the patch notes in reverse, from the NGE backwards and you see REAL advances in the game. Read them the way they happened you see stuff being continually stripped, and only recently have they started adding crumbs back.
Clearly more believe us than them anyway, if we were wrong and the NGE lovers right, the subscriber number would be heading up, not down right?
I'm not saying I dissagree with you in any way in regards to SWG, I loved SWG, played from Beta to shortly after NGE and left because of it. I was sad, sure, but I let it go, it's a game.
With all the horrible messes of NGE though and everything else asside, you still havn't answered my question. I have never seen Obraik, nor anyone else, say that everything is perfect and nothing needs to be fixed. In fact I've seen them write posts that are just as passionate about the problems as die hard SOE haters.
So again, why is it when they simply speak their minds, about a game they enjoy, regarding things they might have fun with, or see happening and be involved in, that their points of view of automatically Propagandy (as you put it) and not just that, someone's point of view.
There's no denying the issues of the game, again to re-iterate I think we all know and can harp on those for hours, but it seems like your saying that because they (specifically now) still enjoy some aspects of the game, that they are wrong, period. And not for any deep, meaningfull reason but simply because you say so?
Like I said, I agree with you with the games issues, but I'm just trying to understand why you feel I should dismiss their oppinions over yours. As a gamer who enjoy's games completely, would it not be smarter of me to listen to everyone's oppinions for what they are?
Who is really spreading propaganda then?
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Well that and it being called a mistake by it's own execs and President of the company, so yeah lol.
The way I try to look at this is now is simply a product. People say the words, "Holding a grudge" or "Bashing SOE" or things making it sound like this was unfounded or even better yet not needed.
This is no different then buying a bowl of soup at a resturaunt and finding a Roach in it, you tend not to go right back to that place, get a bowl of soup and not wonder what is in it. At the same time, if the owner of the resturaunt came out, told you the soup was a "mistake" they should not have made it you tend not to buy it or want it.
This is not really a grudge, this is just plain common sense. People saying "oh your just mad for no reason" stuff is kinda funny at this point. I think we pretty much got past that one a long time ago.
I like this one, "Hey, your brakes on your car were a mistake, do not make them like we did, but go ahead and drive that car on the mountain side, you should be fine".... Yeah, ok.
There is a difference between a grudge and using common sense.
(Oh and my opinion of what common sense is along the lines of "Do not stick your had on a hot stove".. I should be clear here bcause my version of common sense may not be the same as other peoples which of course is ok.. each to his own.
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I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
A good compromise leave everyone unhappy
Well in Obraiks case he tends to gloss right on over every flaw in the game to say its brillent and amazing in every last possible way. I wouldn't go as far as to call it propoganda but his spining of everything about the game in the best possible way and not ever mentioning anything wrong with it does annoy at times. I'm also sure he doesn't mean it that way and he is just trying to be a counter voice on these forums about the game because he honestly enjoys the game. He certainly doesn't have an attitude problem and treat anyone that dislikes the game with contempt like Unagi tends too.
When posters started speculating which 'fanbois' worked for SOE, I thought that was a good indication of how manic the 'veteran' community had become.
I totally agree with splitting the communities, and allowing fans of the current game to enjoy a friendly forum. In the least, 'veterans' should be thankful that MMORG.COM created a forum to continue the general rants, and occasional constructive discussion.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Its not there falt SOE killed the game we loved to give them the game they enjoy.
I salute mmorpg.com for putting the palyers first.
I would like to see mmorpg.com put a ranking of the worst MMO's on there front page like they have for the best.
This would go along way to show add revenue does not dictate content of this site.
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will never buy another sony product again, thanks SOE!
To tell you the truth when I saw this new veteran refugee section I thought ' hmm Somebody is upset with our pre cu propaganda''
who? I think everybody know.
oh i forgot ,when I saw the words '' Absolutely no trolling'' I thought I was in another forum.
When I say personal attacks, it is just that. Threats, highly offensive insults (including racist, sexist, etc). As far as the "bickering", it was more as of constant attacks against each other with said insults and bashing. New player attacks...yes, there are "jokes", but, yes, there are the same insults, attacks, abuse, etc.
As far as saying something negative about the game itself, well, read the RoC. If you can support why game x sucks, support it with reasons. Do not simply troll and post "GAME X SUCKS" and leave it. Why is this a problem? Because it has led to constant trolling, thread hijacking, etc. We have seen, believe me, that many people have made it what seems their sole purpose, to come in and bash members for their views on SWG, whether good or bad.
If you like the game, fine. If not fine. But it is truely becoming ridiculous. As far as the forum wipe, yes, that was a suggestion that we came up with, a sort of clean slate start, but we found that it would not be a viable option.
As for us getting sick of the reports...look at how many forums and members there are compared the the amount of mods (less than 10). Many, many people have become upset at how portions of this site are becoming (not just SWG), and, when we must devote most of our time policing the SWG forum, it becomes quite an annoyance.
Thanks for the comments.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
When I say personal attacks, it is just that. Threats, highly offensive insults (including racist, sexist, etc). As far as the "bickering", it was more as of constant attacks against each other with said insults and bashing. New player attacks...yes, there are "jokes", but, yes, there are the same insults, attacks, abuse, etc.
As far as saying something negative about the game itself, well, read the RoC. If you can support why game x sucks, support it with reasons. Do not simply troll and post "GAME X SUCKS" and leave it. Why is this a problem? Because it has led to constant trolling, thread hijacking, etc. We have seen, believe me, that many people have made it what seems their sole purpose, to come in and bash members for their views on SWG, whether good or bad.
If you like the game, fine. If not fine. But it is truely becoming ridiculous. As far as the forum wipe, yes, that was a suggestion that we came up with, a sort of clean slate start, but we found that it would not be a viable option.
As for us getting sick of the reports...look at how many forums and members there are compared the the amount of mods (less than 10). Many, many people have become upset at how portions of this site ar becoming (not just SWG), and, when we must devot most of our time policing the SWG forum, it becomes quite an annoyance.
Thanks for the comments.
Consider a scenario:
as a new player to SWG, i seek info on this game i just subscribed to, i visit mmorpg.com, check out swg:general (before the split up of the boards) and after posting my questions "on areas to grind lvl 10+ or grouping", or anything in general, i start receiving replies. All replies with info that really doesnt help me or answer my question.
To MMORPG Mods:
While i understand the reasoning and wisdom of the split up like maybe the scenario above, you have to consider the undertaking of splitting up the SWG forums. I agree yes, but at the same time someone in the decision making office must have thought of the heat it might unlock.
Trolling, thread jacking etc are unfortunately common in any forums thru out the web, modding the forums is must yes, but sometimes its not what you say but how you say it.
Another scenario:
I standup at center stage on a comedy club, say my one line ive been practicing and to my shock, no response from my audience,
Mitch Fatel on the other hand comes up right behind me and repeats the same line, and is given a standing ovation, crowd cant stop laughing.
Its nature, while i think it is sensible to split the forums, i think it just as crucial to develop a better dialog prior to and afterwards a split in the forums, im not saying there wasnt any but a better communication technique might have helped.
To answer the concern among posters about "let it go" or "it just a game" posture:
I do agree its a game, i played nearly 2 yrs prior to NGE, had 3 accounts and took over a 4th (from my brother), i had alot invested, maybe its me cause i try not to take things to personel, but something unique as SWG means alot to me, my 1st MMO. But after i realized there wasnt much i could do after a while, it happened and had to accept it. I did, without missing a stride i took on other MMO's, ........still, it wasnt the same.
I became a frequent browser of this site not because of the Swg "refugee" status here but mainly because i so enjoy reading everyones opinions in the forums general boards - off topics etc. I have to say, i am quite amazed at the amount of opinions, logical debates, and knowledge that is thrown down here. very very interesting, intrigueing would be an understatement in my book.
the SWG boards here just became "window shopping" to me, informative and funny at the same time. But i think it no coincidence that SOE's recent statements about the "dos and donts" of MMO gaming and if i may say "mistakes" of the NGE and recent volitile attitudes and assumptions in these swg boards could be the cause an affect of each other.
These boards in swg no doubt have enticed me to see the latest gossup and rumors if there are any and hopefully true of pre-cu servers, etc, the same maybe could be said of many here, hoping for a change....in their favor. Kinda like "see, i told you so!"
Keeping this in mind Mods:
Splitting up the boards has created heat, and although i will no try to justify it because i simply cannot, as moderator, a proffesional. The way it was done may have been ill will. Maybe if things were left alone, maybe SOE cont. with updates, maybe there will be no pre-cu, then maybe the climate might have adjusted a little. Then again maybe it wouldnt.
These are only my opinions and i dont think they reflect a majority, minority, prob non. I just maybe hope a little more understanding will come from this.
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I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.