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What made the SWG community the best game community of all time?

TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,143

 Even people who didn’t like the game have said that the SWG community is one of the best and most helpful they’ve ever experienced. A lot of people return to this day because of it. And it's one of the reasons it's so hard to leave (*sigh* I miss Aside' ). Why was the game like this for so many? My opinion is the diversity. They didn’t split us up in to play styles. Each server had PvPers, Role players, PvEers questers ect. ect. I think being subjected to these different types of players made for our strong community ethics. We almost governed our own game community. We made sure to warn each other of people who lied, cheated and stole. We helped new players with money, items and leveling even thought we might have had better things to do. And we had a lot of fun just hanging out, even if they were the opposing faction. This will be a required feature for the next big game I play.  I could go on but what do you guys think made SWG one of the best communities in any game?



Comments

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182



    Originally posted by tillamook

     Even people who didn’t like the game have said that the SWG community is one of the best and most helpful they’ve ever experienced. A lot of people return to this day because of it. And it's one of the reasons it's so hard to leave (*sigh* I miss Aside' ). Why was the game like this for so many? My opinion is the diversity. They didn’t split us up in to play styles. Each server had PvPers, Role players, PvEers questers ect. ect. I think being subjected to these different types of players made for our strong community ethics. We almost governed our own game community. We made sure to warn each other of people who lied, cheated and stole. We helped new players with money, items and leveling even thought we might have had better things to do. And we had a lot of fun just hanging out, even if they were the opposing faction. This will be a required feature for the next big game I play.  I could go on but what do you guys think made SWG one of the best communities in any game?


    OMG Aside rocks (ALways liked the members of JKO )  , And I agree completey no other game I have ever experienced offered what Bloodfin did .

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SODAofBRIASODAofBRIA Member Posts: 351

    It's the open communication between factions and the ability to grief/police yourselves.

    Of course the grief/police system was eventually nerfed into oblivion.

    Love, Sodapop

  • dacia72dacia72 Member Posts: 80


    Originally posted by tillamook

     Even people who didn’t like the game have said that the SWG community is one of the best and most helpful they’ve ever experienced. A lot of people return to this day because of it. And it's one of the reasons it's so hard to leave (*sigh* I miss Aside' ). Why was the game like this for so many? My opinion is the diversity. They didn’t split us up in to play styles. Each server had PvPers, Role players, PvEers questers ect. ect. I think being subjected to these different types of players made for our strong community ethics. We almost governed our own game community. We made sure to warn each other of people who lied, cheated and stole. We helped new players with money, items and leveling even thought we might have had better things to do. And we had a lot of fun just hanging out, even if they were the opposing faction. This will be a required feature for the next big game I play.  I could go on but what do you guys think made SWG one of the best communities in any game?


    80% by the mature players, read this: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/95679/page/2

    you will find the answer.

    For our guild, wich was created in SWG and reached nearly 300 members, was the best MMo, and even we are not playing atm all the same games, we are still in contact and meeting in RL, even we have members from all arround the world.


    DAKSHA - the Weaponsmith
    proud member of KDS

    SWG- DAKSHA, Quietus, Decebal, Deceneu -retired
    EVE - Daksha - retired
    WOW - Daksha - retired
    COV - Daksha - retired
    EQ2- Daksha - retired
    SOR- Daksha - retired
    Vanguard - Daksha - retired
    LOTRO - Daksha - retired
    AOC - Daksha - retired
    Warhammer - Daksha - retired
    Aion - Daksha -almost retired
    Waiting for SWTOR

  • Unknown888Unknown888 Member Posts: 28


    Originally posted by tillamook

     My opinion is the diversity. They didn’t split us up in to play styles. Each server had PvPers, Role players, PvEers questers ect. ect.


    You are wrong. They had, "un-official" servers in the beginning. I was on Bloodfin because it was the unofficial PvP east coast PvP server.

    I think Star Wars Galaxies had the best community because each server had its own distinct type of personlity. It made the game cluster people who are a certain type. The PvP servers had people who would fuck with each other's heads, the RP servers had people who were really nice, and the normal servers had ... normal individuals. I prefered the PvP, "fuck each other" style because it created the most drama. And I'm attracted to drama. I tried a RP server once with an entertainer, but with everybody giving me thousands of credits and clothing options, it made the game too easy and therefore BORING. I prefer a more difficult game where people are at each other's throats.

    So that's why. No matter what kind of personality you have, you got a server for you. It was sort of the middle-of-the-road approach between having all the servers being the same, and having them all have different rules and regulations enforced. It just made for a better game, if you ask me.
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,143


    Originally posted by Unknown888

    Originally posted by tillamook

     My opinion is the diversity. They didn’t split us up in to play styles. Each server had PvPers, Role players, PvEers questers ect. ect.

    You are wrong. They had, "un-official" servers in the beginning. I was on Bloodfin because it was the unofficial PvP east coast PvP server.

    I think Star Wars Galaxies had the best community because each server had its own distinct type of personlity. It made the game cluster people who are a certain type. The PvP servers had people who would fuck with each other's heads, the RP servers had people who were really nice, and the normal servers had ... normal individuals. I prefered the PvP, "fuck each other" style because it created the most drama. And I'm attracted to drama. I tried a RP server once with an entertainer, but with everybody giving me thousands of credits and clothing options, it made the game too easy and therefore BORING. I prefer a more difficult game where people are at each other's throats.

    So that's why. No matter what kind of personality you have, you got a server for you. It was sort of the middle-of-the-road approach between having all the servers being the same, and having them all have different rules and regulations enforced. It just made for a better game, if you ask me.


    I'm speaking game mechanic wise. I was also on Bloodfin and there were lots of different types of players there.  Hell the biggest imp guild ever was run by a role player.



  • Unknown888Unknown888 Member Posts: 28


    Originally posted by tillamook


    I'm speaking game mechanic wise. I was also on Bloodfin and there were lots of different types of players there.  Hell the biggest imp guild ever was run by a role player.


    You are talking about RPer definition-wise. I was talking about the "carebear" RPer. Hell, if you want to go strictly by definitions, I was a RPer too.
  • MrArchyMrArchy Member Posts: 643
    I agree with Tillamook - I enjoyed running mission solo but being in a solo group so I could chat w/ fellow SWG gamers, had lots of fun at it.  By creating a game environment in which anyone could play however they wanted - RP, PvP, PvE, solo, group, etc., they created a place where players of all types could find like-minded people, make friends, and become part of a community.  You can do these things in other games also, but not to the same degree.  SWG let us join and enjoy the SW universe on our own individual terms.

    SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
    NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
    Now Playing: World of Warcrack
    Forum Terrorist
    image

  • PyscoJuggaloPyscoJuggalo Member UncommonPosts: 1,114


    It's quite simple really, interdependance.

    To buy/sell things you had to deal with other players.
    To get healed you had to deal with other players.
    To get AP XP you had to deal with other players.
    To get trained cheaply you had to deal with other players.
    To get BF and mind wounds removed you had to deal with other players.

    Hell we had so much interdependancy everyone had to be trained in the wookie language.

    Raph's interdependance vision was a good vision.  It made the best community around.

    (Notice: I never said forced grouping)




    image
    --When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
    --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
    --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
    --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.

  • bigfootsbigfoots Member Posts: 198

    Ultimately the perceived learning curve of the game generally scared off the 'instant gratification kids' so you were left with older players and kids who played responsibly.

    Make the game easy and what happens? My guess is that the balance will have changed, but I'm not going back to find out.

    Older players are like elephants. We never forget.

    Proud Master CH -
    Sorry,
    Proud FORMER Master CH...
    my toon was untimely converted into something more Star Warsy

  • NiksenNiksen Member Posts: 66

    I agree with psyko, interdependence is the key word.

    it was simply bad busines to go around flamming other people, you never new when you might need them.

    The same with n00bs, be nice to them, help them out. in a few weeks, theyll be fiullblown players which you might depend on some day.

    A feature like the apprentice points were great, this created contacts between vets and n00bs.

    brgds 

  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Member UncommonPosts: 2,408

    You know, I think the real secret to the community strength was due in large part to two things:

    1)  Characters were generalists, not specialists.

    It seems to me that the more a game tries to force specialization, the more players find frustration in dealing with others.  SWG characters were generalists at launch, not specialists.  Community started to decline the moment template stacking became so uber.  Its when you started seeing a lot of hostility between combat and crafting, or combat and medic, or combat and ent.

    The reason is because at launch, we all had plenty of SP left after training combat to do other things, and by doing those other things, we understood in a very real sense what ents, or crafters, or medics, or scouts had to go through.

    A game that rewards radical specialization makes dealing with other players not a matter of choice, but of necessity.  There is a difference between interdependence, and dependence.  SWG at launch had interdependence, which made everyone free equals in the town square.  SWG in late pre-CU to today had developed into dependence, which meant that dealing with other people was not a matter of freedom so much as it was a matter of the power to screw someone's game.  Making players slaves to eachother does not promote a feeling of community.  It promotes feelings of tyranny.

    2)  The weak guild system.

    I think one of the larger fallacies in MMO thinking is that "strong guilds = strong community."  By "strong guilds," I mean that the game is designed in such a way to give players some content or mechanics incentive to join a player made club (take EVE, or EQ2 for an example of a "strong guild" system).  The logic behind the advocates of the "stong guilds = strong community" theory is that by forcing the committment to a group, you force players to work with others.  However, when you look at EVE, or EQ2, you'll find that while the relations between those who share tags is strong, relations between those who do not share tags tends to suffer.

    Now SWG did not have a very strong guild system by design.  No guild rakings, no guild content, no perks for joining a guild were coded into the game.  It was a point of criticism for many, but in my opinion, the weak guild system actually made players choose their relations because they wanted to, and not because they felt forced to join.  Players got along just fine without ever joining a guild, and players had huge lists of people they considered to be friends, be they in their guilds, in other guilds, or in no guild.  The game didn't center around the guild hall, and because it didn't, players felt free to establish relations outside the guild hall.

    Now these two aspects: the generalist approach to character design, and the weak guild system promoted friendship, freedom, and equality.  You wouldn't expect a game with such a strong solo game to have such a strong community feeling, but in hindsight, there is no reason not to think it wouldn't be there.  You can't be on friendly terms with your neighbors when they are either your masters, or your slaves.  SWG at launch never made people slaves to each other.  It developed into that because of changes to the game, and as a result, the community became that much less respectful.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • shirlntshirlnt Member UncommonPosts: 351


    Originally posted by PyscoJuggalo
    It's quite simple really, interdependance.

    To buy/sell things you had to deal with other players.
    To get healed you had to deal with other players.
    To get AP XP you had to deal with other players.
    To get trained cheaply you had to deal with other players.
    To get BF and mind wounds removed you had to deal with other players.

    Hell we had so much interdependancy everyone had to be trained in the wookie language.

    Raph's interdependance vision was a good vision.  It made the best community around.

    (Notice: I never said forced grouping)


    Agreed...add that people had to take breaks from the grind in order to heal wounds, re-buff, re-stock supplies (spices,food,broken weapons/armor/vehicles), wait for the next shuttle, etc.  While standing around, people tended to chat...getting to know others and creating "community."

    I also think the sandbox style combined with the "hardcore-ness" of the game led to more community.  People needed help in the game and there were those that understood "we were all noobs at one time."

    The "community" may have also developed simply because of the type of player that pre-CU attracted.  Someone who enjoyed the pre-cu style of game (aside from being a huge star wars fan that would play basically anything with the star wars label on it) would be someone who liked taking their time in a game and working towards goals, who didn't mind needing others or even enjoyed the interdependence (as compared to NGE posters who feel that since they pay for the game they should be able to play a Massive MULTIPLAYER game without needing anything from anyone -- not even weapons, armor, and other supplies from another players vendor), and who liked a complex game that one needed to think about, figure out, or rely on the help of others (ex: I either had to figure out how to make a macro that would work or ask OTHERS how to make a macro...and if I did the second I was relying on COMMUNITY).

  • Jade6Jade6 Member Posts: 429
    Others have already mentioned the interdependency and the relative complexity of the game; these things would be important factors of course. But above all I think it was the somewhat relaxed pace of the game, you wouldn't always be running like a headless chicken from point A to point B. People did tiny things like placing furniture, or finding good places for harvesters, or even just shopping; they were never in a rush, always had time to chat, and usually regarded meeting another player outside town as an interesting event rather than as a nuisance, unlike in many other games.
  • iskareotiskareot Member Posts: 2,143


    Originally posted by Jade6
    Others have already mentioned the interdependency and the relative complexity of the game; these things would be important factors of course. But above all I think it was the somewhat relaxed pace of the game, you wouldn't always be running like a headless chicken from point A to point B. People did tiny things like placing furniture, or finding good places for harvesters, or even just shopping; they were never in a rush, always had time to chat, and usually regarded meeting another player outside town as an interesting event rather than a nuisance.


    This is a very wise and accurate discription.

    Sadly, the NGE crowd does not see it this way, otherwise they would fight for this back.

    The one thing about the NGE is that it seperated the gamer types of SWG.. some of us like the SIM non chicken running, etc, thought out part of the game.  We did not always need a go go go fix.

    One thing about it is that we were able to see what you can do and what not to do to a game in 3 years.

    SOE agrees and it is funny that most of us wish we could all go back.   Now, it's more or less just riding somthing out.

    ______________________________
    I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
    SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
    Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1

  • ReachwindReachwind Member Posts: 275
    Two things: SCS and the out of game community that the devs helped to grow prior to launch.

    SCS: People played their character. They were identified by the character. Characters became known for the game system they enjoyed playing the most.

    That pregame community was VERY important. Guilds were formed, role players started characters, people decided on crafts or combat professions.... Basically it made it possible that on the first day of the game being launched that there was an almost veteren like community available to jump start the virtual world.


    Former SWG beta tester and player

  • Jade6Jade6 Member Posts: 429



    Originally posted by iskareot

    Sadly, the NGE crowd does not see it this way, otherwise they would fight for this back.


    I only went back for one month after the NGE so I'm not entirely sure if I understand the situation correctly, but I would imagine the NGE crowd is like WoW crowd - they are playing a game, not living in a virtual world, which is what the original SWG was. A game has a clear beginning, storyline progression and an end; a virtual world has none of these. In a game, plowing through content, leveling and so on is the main focus; whether there are other players or not doesn't make much difference. In a virtual world, other players are actually the main focus, everything revolves around human interaction; content is just there to provide the framework for socialising. Sure, SWG lacked a lot of content, but there were places like Geolabs, Corvette and Bunker in the game back then too; you just weren't driven to grind them 24/7 because you didn't suck if you didn't, items from those places were a novelty but not really a "hook" that forced you to keep trying to "finish" the game.
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