Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
Sorry Obi, but that's not what they're saying at all...
Heh, we've been through this before :P Not sure I can be bothered doing it again :P
So let me get this straight. Fundamental changes to the game post production is bad? I guess that is what he was saying.
So everyone else shouldn't do it? Yet soe is going to continue doing that and press development on NGE mechanics? Is that not the dumbest person in the universe speaking? Admitting it is a bad idea and staying the course with a very bad idea?
I thought he said learn from his mistakes? I dont get it? I am left in total amazement. Its like knowing the foundation of your house is unstable and sinking in the ground and still putting your house ontop of it. What kind of idiot does that?
He says it was the wrong thing to do but this is the best most stable the game has been? um huh? The NGE has been plagued with bugs and lag issues. It has all the same core mechanical flaws of spawning, warping and lagging as before? It still has CTD issues. The trial before it was pulled had issues for all kinds of users. What sort of bug free game is he discussing? They had to revise the bug thread wording because there where so many core issues. I mean wth?
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
Sorry Obi, but that's not what they're saying at all...
Heh, we've been through this before :P Not sure I can be bothered doing it again :P
I'll make it easy and show you were I think they are saying it was a bad decision to go with the NGE.
Here:
"But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
And Here:
"Furthermore, Blakely said, MMOs are products that don't "go away" once they ship. Decisions made during development will stay with the product throughout its life. It's important during the development process, therefore, to have a grasp of the current market, as Fiala put it, "what it is that's causing them to want to buy something.""
And Here:
"Ultimately, Blakely noted, "you're making the game for your audience, not for yourself." Developers need to have a command of how the game works, but the players are the consumers. The more people on the team who understand that, Fiala said, the greater chance the entire team can be leveraged for the sake of reaching the target market."
And Here Especially:
"Having this grasp, Fiala said, can be useful to sometimes deflect some "good" ideas that come from upper management that might not mesh with the established purpose of the game. It's also important for the developers to not feel a risk of someone in charge dropping in on a whim and declaring, "It's all going to change, or something random," he said."
And Finnally Here:
"So what happened with NGE? Blakely said the changes were "a big risk" that represented a push for a new market of customers, but that it "did not intersect fully with the market that we had." Fiala said there was "perceived to be a timing opportunity" related to "product placement and product marketing" of Star Wars Galaxies, and reiterated the importance of listening to "the market you have" when making decisions about a game already in production."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sure they are sugarcoating it with the, "it could have been implemented better" line. But I think these paragraphs show they are admitting mistakes...
Personally I think the NGE could have worked as a concept on a MMORPG based off of Starwars Battlefront. But they decided to do it ontop of a pre-existing MMORPG instead...
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
"I would have done it a lot differently, and I think that's what's really been driving a lot of this," said Blakely, SOE's vice president of development, regarding the SWG changes known collectively as the New Game Enhancements, or NGE. Those changes, rolled out shortly after the previous year's AGC, resulted in several departures of development employees, and a significant portion of the customer population – by some estimates cutting it in half.
"Having this grasp, Fiala said, can be useful to sometimes deflect some "good" ideas that come from upper management that might not mesh with the established purpose of the game. It's also important for the developers to not feel a risk of someone in charge dropping in on a whim and declaring, "It's all going to change, or something random," he said."
I love that quote. I'm not certain he will in the AM when Smedley and Julio ask him to visit Smedley's office for a "fireside" chat. (oh and bring your personal effects while you are at it, m'kay?)
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
Originally posted by PyscoJuggalo Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
Sorry Obi, but that's not what they're saying at all...
Heh, we've been through this before :P Not sure I can be bothered doing it again :P
I'll make it easy and show you were I think they are saying it was a bad decision to go with the NGE.
Here:
"But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
And Here:
"Furthermore, Blakely said, MMOs are products that don't "go away" once they ship. Decisions made during development will stay with the product throughout its life. It's important during the development process, therefore, to have a grasp of the current market, as Fiala put it, "what it is that's causing them to want to buy something.""
And Here:
"Ultimately, Blakely noted, "you're making the game for your audience, not for yourself." Developers need to have a command of how the game works, but the players are the consumers. The more people on the team who understand that, Fiala said, the greater chance the entire team can be leveraged for the sake of reaching the target market."
And Here Especially:
"Having this grasp, Fiala said, can be useful to sometimes deflect some "good" ideas that come from upper management that might not mesh with the established purpose of the game. It's also important for the developers to not feel a risk of someone in charge dropping in on a whim and declaring, "It's all going to change, or something random," he said."
And Finnally Here:
"So what happened with NGE? Blakely said the changes were "a big risk" that represented a push for a new market of customers, but that it "did not intersect fully with the market that we had." Fiala said there was "perceived to be a timing opportunity" related to "product placement and product marketing" of Star Wars Galaxies, and reiterated the importance of listening to "the market you have" when making decisions about a game already in production."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sure they are sugarcoating it with the, "it could have been implemented better" line. But I think these paragraphs show they are admitting mistakes...
Personally I think the NGE could have worked as a concept on a MMORPG based off of Starwars Battlefront. But they decided to do it ontop of a pre-existing MMORPG instead...
Thanks for saving me from saying the same things...lol. Excellent points and good job. I also agree they tried to make a Battle Front type MMORPG. I had no problem with them even coming up with a stipped down version of the pre-cu [which is what the NGE is more or less] in order to make a BF mmorpg, as long as they did it separate from the Pre-cu. I mean come on how hard is it to see you could have 2 existing Star Wars games appealing to a different market groups. You could have the SWG: Classic that most of us want and you could have something called SWG: adventures for the younger market and FPS type players.
Originally posted by acmtalk I just don't get it!!! Why wouldn't they put 1 or 2 clasic servers up, They could still develop the ngecrap, and get some of the respect back from the vets By admitting the mistake...
Because egos are involved. Because it would prove to all the people who supported the NGE they were wrong.
Originally posted by Tauceti I mean come on how hard is it to see you could have 2 existing Star Wars games appealing to a different market groups. You could have the SWG: Classic that most of us want and you could have something called SWG: adventures for the younger market and FPS type players.
Because LucasArts would want a second annual license for the second game and make both games go into the red. Which makes me think that if Lucas had any faith left in SOE to turn things around they would have cut them a nice deal to do so. But since they have no faith, you prevent the second failure by making the price too steep (or keeping it so).
Had Lucas Arts enough faith in SOE to make 2 games work, they could structure a deal that makes the 2 licenses affordable at current subscriber levels and increases or changes in nature with the increase of subscriber levels. No faith probably means no deal and no second SWG.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
Originally posted by Clackamas Originally posted by pirrg i hope you realize that the only reason they are being so open about this is because the subscription count is on a rise.
pirrg, I am surprised your not joining Helios in flipping McD's.
He did, but he got fired because he never believed the timer when it told him the fries were done.
"They aren't really done. How does a timer really know when they are done?"
Only one way to find out pirrg! stick your head in the fryer and check.
Originally posted by Clackamas Originally posted by pirrg i hope you realize that the only reason they are being so open about this is because the subscription count is on a rise.
pirrg, I am surprised your not joining Helios in flipping McD's.
You should have played his game against him. Subscriptions on the rise? Real evidence please....don't have any you say? Ok, thanks for playing forum wars, you're game is over.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
Sorry Obi, but that's not what they're saying at all...
Heh, we've been through this before :P Not sure I can be bothered doing it again :P
Yes, we have. And the NGErs always fail to supply complelling reasons as to why they are correct. The statements, in fact, say, the SOE made a mistake. But, they also fail to fix the mistake.
Originally posted by Clackamas Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
Sorry Obi, but that's not what they're saying at all...
Heh, we've been through this before :P Not sure I can be bothered doing it again :P
Yes, we have. And the NGErs always fail to supply complelling reasons as to why they are correct. The statements, in fact, say, the SOE made a mistake. But, they also fail to fix the mistake.
Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by BaronJuJu Originally posted by iskareot Its a bit late to be honest but still, they really just shot themselves in the foot.
Bigtime..
How? The folks that hated teh NGE already left. The game reviewers already bashed the game six months ago on the NGE and left it at that. What else is it going to do? Hurt sales? thats a laugh.
I would say "Adds salt to injury" -- No matter what this cannot be good or positive. Sure it was at suck level BUT NOW it's below it with facts and statements from the makers itself.
They imply their mistake was in taking no concern of old players . In their OWN WORDS " The game is as solid as it has ever been . " Our guy's did a great job" .
Spin this article in your favor all you want , But nowhere did they say anything that you just did . Wow so they admitted to ,what everyone has known for a year now( two if you count cu ). They pissed off a ton of players , And hurt their image greatly . Everyone even them know ,They held little regard of current players in the choices made with nge .
What at all does this change ? Everything remains the same , NGE is SWG . Some people are happy , Others aren't . Half the player base is gone , 3/4 of them have moved on .The other 1/4 carrys on with this charade .
The lessons have been learned,And for sometime now , The rest of the gaming population has shifted focus to modern up-to-date games , SWG is of no factor in the gaming world anymore . . Do you think even SOE gives a rat's behind about this game ? If so I've got a bit of land to sell you , And it ain't in kansas .
The fact is SOE dosen't have to do a thing to SWG , To improve their image to the gaming populace.They have a much more popular I.P.(DC) to work with now , On top of the eq franchise .Not to mention titles like Vangaurd and Rome rising. SOE is in no trouble as a buisness , As an earlier poster said . They are on a mission not to create a game with the most subscibers .But to host an arsenal of semi-popular titles and offer something for every style of gaming out there .
Maybe its just me , But IMO this article does nothing but state the obvious.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by BaronJuJu Originally posted by iskareot Its a bit late to be honest but still, they really just shot themselves in the foot.
Bigtime..
How? The folks that hated teh NGE already left. The game reviewers already bashed the game six months ago on the NGE and left it at that. What else is it going to do? Hurt sales? thats a laugh.
I would say "Adds salt to injury" -- No matter what this cannot be good or positive. Sure it was at suck level BUT NOW it's below it with facts and statements from the makers itself.
What at all does this change ? Everything remains the same , NGE is SWG . Some people are happy , Others aren't . Half the player base is gone , 3/4 of them have moved on .The other 1/4 carrys on with this charade .
The lessons have been learned,And for sometime now , The rest of the gaming population has shifted focus to modern up-to-date games , SWG is of no factor in the gaming world anymore . . Do you think even SOE gives a rat's behind about this game ? If so I've got a bit of land to sell you , And it ain't in kansas .
It is true that 1/4 of the population continues to hold the torch dispite it is the wrong one.
However, SWG:NGE is, alas, not insignificant because it shows the outcome of SOE's choices.
Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
Rofl...
Nice spin... almost worthy of Devspeak.
But sometimes you have just have to use common sense O... even you cannot deny what they said about the NGE being a mistake, as in a no no.
They realized they shit on people and should not have introduced the NGE... how you don't see that is sad... whats worse is seeing them say that (oh in the last 6 months we got some bugs fixed) --- since the NGE has been live for 10 and they have half the content and 1/3 the profs... nobody is saying (OH WOW YOU GUYS ARE GREAT) -- when in fact as you can see in plain text they pretty much admit a failure.
If you somehow think that speach is some great review or plug of thier game then I realize you are not even on the same planet as some people.
Just use common sense this time at least. Read it for what it is... not what you think it should be.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by pirrg i hope you realize that the only reason they are being so open about this is because the subscription count is on a rise.
ROFL...
Now this one is the best response yet.
Yep thats right, they tell you the NGE was a mistake and they realized the player base they had was better then this one--- and you say this is because the game is doing well.
Oh my, the crack you smoke must be good.
You just cannot admit to the NGE being a failure can you? You cannot admit that the game prior was better then this one that your doing better in? I am sorry you did not do well in the harder versions of the game, I really am but to try to make the NGE sound like some great gift at this point is silly.
Read what the makers just said man.... crap even you are not that blind.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by BaronJuJu Originally posted by iskareot Its a bit late to be honest but still, they really just shot themselves in the foot.
Bigtime..
How? The folks that hated teh NGE already left. The game reviewers already bashed the game six months ago on the NGE and left it at that. What else is it going to do? Hurt sales? thats a laugh.
I would say "Adds salt to injury" -- No matter what this cannot be good or positive. Sure it was at suck level BUT NOW it's below it with facts and statements from the makers itself.
They imply their mistake was in taking no concern of old players . In their OWN WORDS " The game is as solid as it has ever been . " Our guy's did a great job" .
Spin this article in your favor all you want , But nowhere did they say anything that you just did . Wow so they admitted to ,what everyone has known for a year now( two if you count cu ). They pissed off a ton of players , And hurt their image greatly . Everyone even them know ,They held little regard of current players in the choices made with nge .
What at all does this change ? Everything remains the same , NGE is SWG . Some people are happy , Others aren't . Half the player base is gone , 3/4 of them have moved on .The other 1/4 carrys on with this charade .
The lessons have been learned,And for sometime now , The rest of the gaming population has shifted focus to modern up-to-date games , SWG is of no factor in the gaming world anymore . . Do you think even SOE gives a rat's behind about this game ? If so I've got a bit of land to sell you , And it ain't in kansas .
The fact is SOE dosen't have to do a thing to SWG , To improve their image to the gaming populace.They have a much more popular I.P.(DC) to work with now , On top of the eq franchise .Not to mention titles like Vangaurd and Rome rising. SOE is in no trouble as a buisness , As an earlier poster said . They are on a mission not to create a game with the most subscibers .But to host an arsenal of semi-popular titles and offer something for every style of gaming out there .
Maybe its just me , But IMO this article does nothing but state the obvious.
Agree and I hate that.
It is nothing new, only good to see them say it themselves causing the NGErs to see it for what it is. Maybe just maybe one of them will now think different and realize that some of us 9 months ago were right.
On the flip side it is a numbers game and no doubt does not matter anymore.. it is too bad I do think SWG had a better chance and a longer life in it if they had not done this.
I think it is safe to say, these guys fucked up -- they know it, we know it.. now they are just trying to go out in style.
I say the game has a year left tops.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
Rofl...
Nice spin... almost worthy of Devspeak.
But sometimes you have just have to use common sense O... even you cannot deny what they said about the NGE being a mistake, as in a no no.
They realized they shit on people and should not have introduced the NGE... how you don't see that is sad... whats worse is seeing them say that (oh in the last 6 months we got some bugs fixed) --- since the NGE has been live for 10 and they have half the content and 1/3 the profs... nobody is saying (OH WOW YOU GUYS ARE GREAT) -- when in fact as you can see in plain text they pretty much admit a failure.
If you somehow think that speach is some great review or plug of thier game then I realize you are not even on the same planet as some people.
Just use common sense this time at least. Read it for what it is... not what you think it should be.
If we're talking about the way the NGE was introduced, then no I don't agree with the way they went about it and I never have. I doubt anyone agrees with the way it was introduced, how it affected people differs from person to person though.
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
Rofl...
Nice spin... almost worthy of Devspeak.
But sometimes you have just have to use common sense O... even you cannot deny what they said about the NGE being a mistake, as in a no no.
They realized they shit on people and should not have introduced the NGE... how you don't see that is sad... whats worse is seeing them say that (oh in the last 6 months we got some bugs fixed) --- since the NGE has been live for 10 and they have half the content and 1/3 the profs... nobody is saying (OH WOW YOU GUYS ARE GREAT) -- when in fact as you can see in plain text they pretty much admit a failure.
If you somehow think that speach is some great review or plug of thier game then I realize you are not even on the same planet as some people.
Just use common sense this time at least. Read it for what it is... not what you think it should be.
If we're talking about the way the NGE was introduced, then no I don't agree with the way they went about it and I never have. I doubt anyone agrees with the way it was introduced, how it affected people differs from person to person though.
Dude how much freaking plain text will it take.
NOT THE WAY THEY DID IT, BUT THAT THEY DID IT AT ALL??? I mean come on..
I mean really, this is like arguing somthing that now even 3 major roles, blogs, creator of the game and now producers have even said was a mistake.
At this point I think that no matter what anyone says to you even the Devs themselves you will still think the NGE is some great gift to SWG.
It was a mistake, plain and simple, we know it, they know it and pretty much I think the rest of the gaming community knows it now.
If anything, your reaching now.... I mean really... IF IT WORKED YOU WOULD BE IN A GAME THAT HAD 2 million people.
Not 100k if that.... They introduced a peace of crap, it failed period. Good God man, they end by saying DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKES WE MADE IN SWG.... they did not say "introducing" they said several things in relation to failing.
Man, if this was a car company people would be dead.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
If SOE made the best intelligent decision possible (if that's even possible for a company like them) then they should sell the Star Wars MMORPG rights to another company and move on, at least the other company might actually be able to make something decent out of the game, but SOE just seem to be rather sore losers at this point.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
Rofl...
Nice spin... almost worthy of Devspeak.
But sometimes you have just have to use common sense O... even you cannot deny what they said about the NGE being a mistake, as in a no no.
They realized they shit on people and should not have introduced the NGE... how you don't see that is sad... whats worse is seeing them say that (oh in the last 6 months we got some bugs fixed) --- since the NGE has been live for 10 and they have half the content and 1/3 the profs... nobody is saying (OH WOW YOU GUYS ARE GREAT) -- when in fact as you can see in plain text they pretty much admit a failure.
If you somehow think that speach is some great review or plug of thier game then I realize you are not even on the same planet as some people.
Just use common sense this time at least. Read it for what it is... not what you think it should be.
If we're talking about the way the NGE was introduced, then no I don't agree with the way they went about it and I never have. I doubt anyone agrees with the way it was introduced, how it affected people differs from person to person though.
Im sorry man but that is just reaching. You really think the problem with the nge was how it was deliverd?. the new mythical player base this was aimed at atracting would'nt give 2 hoots how it was deliverd.
The game is bad, and its going to be offerd as a bumper bargain package. This is star wars not cosmic rift. it should be in the top ten at least no a freebie hand out for the station pass.
Originally posted by Obraik I don't they're saying exactly what some of you think they're saying. To me, it seems like they're admitting that the way they introduced the NGE was wrong - which isn't something new, they've been saying since March now. Going by the article, they still would have done the NGE, they just wouldn't have gone about it the same way as they did. They do say they think the current version is the best they've had.
I know I'm jumping in here late but from that article.
So what happened with NGE? Blakely said the changes were "a big risk" that represented a push for a new market of customers, but that it "did not intersect fully with the market that we had."
That sounds to me like the first steps on admited that they didn't care or think of what the current players wanted while chasing that 'new market'.
Also I didn't see him say it was the NGE is the best version of the game, I saw him say:
There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job – we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months.
Solid for me doesn't mean best, it means most stable and bug free. Considering how many bugs they removed when they riped the depth out of the game I'm not suprised they consider it more 'solid'.
Comments
Heh, we've been through this before :P Not sure I can be bothered doing it again :P
So let me get this straight. Fundamental changes to the game post production is bad? I guess that is what he was saying.
So everyone else shouldn't do it? Yet soe is going to continue doing that and press development on NGE mechanics? Is that not the dumbest person in the universe speaking? Admitting it is a bad idea and staying the course with a very bad idea?
I thought he said learn from his mistakes? I dont get it? I am left in total amazement. Its like knowing the foundation of your house is unstable and sinking in the ground and still putting your house ontop of it. What kind of idiot does that?
He says it was the wrong thing to do but this is the best most stable the game has been? um huh? The NGE has been plagued with bugs and lag issues. It has all the same core mechanical flaws of spawning, warping and lagging as before? It still has CTD issues. The trial before it was pulled had issues for all kinds of users. What sort of bug free game is he discussing? They had to revise the bug thread wording because there where so many core issues. I mean wth?
Heh, we've been through this before :P Not sure I can be bothered doing it again :P
I'll make it easy and show you were I think they are saying it was a bad decision to go with the NGE.
Here:
"But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the
target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
And Here:
"Furthermore, Blakely said, MMOs are products that don't "go away" once
they ship. Decisions made during development will stay with the product
throughout its life. It's important during the development process,
therefore, to have a grasp of the current market, as Fiala put it,
"what it is that's causing them to want to buy something.""
And Here:
"Ultimately, Blakely noted, "you're making the game for your audience,
not for yourself." Developers need to have a command of how the game
works, but the players are the consumers. The more people on the team
who understand that, Fiala said, the greater chance the entire team can
be leveraged for the sake of reaching the target market."
And Here Especially:
"Having this grasp, Fiala said, can be useful to sometimes deflect some
"good" ideas that come from upper management that might not mesh with
the established purpose of the game. It's also important for the
developers to not feel a risk of someone in charge dropping in on a
whim and declaring, "It's all going to change, or something random," he
said."
And Finnally Here:
"So what happened with NGE? Blakely said the changes were "a big risk"
that represented a push for a new market of customers, but that it "did
not intersect fully with the market that we had." Fiala said there was
"perceived to be a timing opportunity" related to "product placement
and product marketing" of Star Wars Galaxies, and reiterated the importance of listening to "the market you have" when making decisions about a game already in production."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure they are sugarcoating it with the, "it could have been implemented better" line. But I think these paragraphs show they are admitting mistakes...
Personally I think the NGE could have worked as a concept on a MMORPG based off of Starwars Battlefront. But they decided to do it ontop of a pre-existing MMORPG instead...
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
"I would have done it a lot differently, and I think that's what's
really been driving a lot of this," said Blakely, SOE's vice president
of development, regarding the SWG
changes known collectively as the New Game Enhancements, or NGE. Those
changes, rolled out shortly after the previous year's AGC, resulted in
several departures of development employees, and a significant portion
of the customer population – by some estimates cutting it in half.
"Get on the Falcon kid...this place is gonna blow!"
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
Heh, we've been through this before :P Not sure I can be bothered doing it again :P
I'll make it easy and show you were I think they are saying it was a bad decision to go with the NGE.
Here:
"But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
And Here:
"Furthermore, Blakely said, MMOs are products that don't "go away" once they ship. Decisions made during development will stay with the product throughout its life. It's important during the development process, therefore, to have a grasp of the current market, as Fiala put it, "what it is that's causing them to want to buy something.""
And Here:
"Ultimately, Blakely noted, "you're making the game for your audience, not for yourself." Developers need to have a command of how the game works, but the players are the consumers. The more people on the team who understand that, Fiala said, the greater chance the entire team can be leveraged for the sake of reaching the target market."
And Here Especially:
"Having this grasp, Fiala said, can be useful to sometimes deflect some "good" ideas that come from upper management that might not mesh with the established purpose of the game. It's also important for the developers to not feel a risk of someone in charge dropping in on a whim and declaring, "It's all going to change, or something random," he said."
And Finnally Here:
"So what happened with NGE? Blakely said the changes were "a big risk" that represented a push for a new market of customers, but that it "did not intersect fully with the market that we had." Fiala said there was "perceived to be a timing opportunity" related to "product placement and product marketing" of Star Wars Galaxies, and reiterated the importance of listening to "the market you have" when making decisions about a game already in production."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure they are sugarcoating it with the, "it could have been implemented better" line. But I think these paragraphs show they are admitting mistakes...
Personally I think the NGE could have worked as a concept on a MMORPG based off of Starwars Battlefront. But they decided to do it ontop of a pre-existing MMORPG instead...
Thanks for saving me from saying the same things...lol. Excellent points and good job. I also agree they tried to make a Battle Front type MMORPG. I had no problem with them even coming up with a stipped down version of the pre-cu [which is what the NGE is more or less] in order to make a BF mmorpg, as long as they did it separate from the Pre-cu. I mean come on how hard is it to see you could have 2 existing Star Wars games appealing to a different market groups. You could have the SWG: Classic that most of us want and you could have something called SWG: adventures for the younger market and FPS type players.
IMO,
Tauceti
Because LucasArts would want a second annual license for the second game and make both games go into the red. Which makes me think that if Lucas had any faith left in SOE to turn things around they would have cut them a nice deal to do so. But since they have no faith, you prevent the second failure by making the price too steep (or keeping it so).
Had Lucas Arts enough faith in SOE to make 2 games work, they could structure a deal that makes the 2 licenses affordable at current subscriber levels and increases or changes in nature with the increase of subscriber levels. No faith probably means no deal and no second SWG.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
He did, but he got fired because he never believed the timer when it told him the fries were done.
"They aren't really done. How does a timer really know when they are done?"
Only one way to find out pirrg! stick your head in the fryer and check.
You should have played his game against him. Subscriptions on the rise? Real evidence please....don't have any you say? Ok, thanks for playing forum wars, you're game is over.
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
Heh, we've been through this before :P Not sure I can be bothered doing it again :P
Yes, we have. And the NGErs always fail to supply complelling reasons as to why they are correct. The statements, in fact, say, the SOE made a mistake. But, they also fail to fix the mistake.
Heh, we've been through this before :P Not sure I can be bothered doing it again :P
Yes, we have. And the NGErs always fail to supply complelling reasons as to why they are correct. The statements, in fact, say, the SOE made a mistake. But, they also fail to fix the mistake.
Is a first little step.... I still hope...
DAKSHA - the Weaponsmith
proud member of KDS
SWG- DAKSHA, Quietus, Decebal, Deceneu -retired
EVE - Daksha - retired
WOW - Daksha - retired
COV - Daksha - retired
EQ2- Daksha - retired
SOR- Daksha - retired
Vanguard - Daksha - retired
LOTRO - Daksha - retired
AOC - Daksha - retired
Warhammer - Daksha - retired
Aion - Daksha -almost retired
Waiting for SWTOR
Bigtime..
How? The folks that hated teh NGE already left. The game reviewers already bashed the game six months ago on the NGE and left it at that. What else is it going to do? Hurt sales? thats a laugh.
I would say "Adds salt to injury" -- No matter what this cannot be good or positive. Sure it was at suck level BUT NOW it's below it with facts and statements from the makers itself.
They imply their mistake was in taking no concern of old players . In their OWN WORDS " The game is as solid as it has ever been . " Our guy's did a great job" .
Spin this article in your favor all you want , But nowhere did they say anything that you just did . Wow so they admitted to ,what everyone has known for a year now( two if you count cu ). They pissed off a ton of players , And hurt their image greatly . Everyone even them know ,They held little regard of current players in the choices made with nge .
What at all does this change ? Everything remains the same , NGE is SWG . Some people are happy , Others aren't . Half the player base is gone , 3/4 of them have moved on .The other 1/4 carrys on with this charade .
The lessons have been learned,And for sometime now , The rest of the gaming population has shifted focus to modern up-to-date games , SWG is of no factor in the gaming world anymore . . Do you think even SOE gives a rat's behind about this game ? If so I've got a bit of land to sell you , And it ain't in kansas .
The fact is SOE dosen't have to do a thing to SWG , To improve their image to the gaming populace.They have a much more popular I.P.(DC) to work with now , On top of the eq franchise .Not to mention titles like Vangaurd and Rome rising. SOE is in no trouble as a buisness , As an earlier poster said . They are on a mission not to create a game with the most subscibers .But to host an arsenal of semi-popular titles and offer something for every style of gaming out there .
Maybe its just me , But IMO this article does nothing but state the obvious.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Bigtime..
How? The folks that hated teh NGE already left. The game reviewers already bashed the game six months ago on the NGE and left it at that. What else is it going to do? Hurt sales? thats a laugh.
I would say "Adds salt to injury" -- No matter what this cannot be good or positive. Sure it was at suck level BUT NOW it's below it with facts and statements from the makers itself.
What at all does this change ? Everything remains the same , NGE is SWG . Some people are happy , Others aren't . Half the player base is gone , 3/4 of them have moved on .The other 1/4 carrys on with this charade .
The lessons have been learned,And for sometime now , The rest of the gaming population has shifted focus to modern up-to-date games , SWG is of no factor in the gaming world anymore . . Do you think even SOE gives a rat's behind about this game ? If so I've got a bit of land to sell you , And it ain't in kansas .
It is true that 1/4 of the population continues to hold the torch dispite it is the wrong one.
However, SWG:NGE is, alas, not insignificant because it shows the outcome of SOE's choices.
Rofl...
Nice spin... almost worthy of Devspeak.
But sometimes you have just have to use common sense O... even you cannot deny what they said about the NGE being a mistake, as in a no no.
They realized they shit on people and should not have introduced the NGE... how you don't see that is sad... whats worse is seeing them say that (oh in the last 6 months we got some bugs fixed) --- since the NGE has been live for 10 and they have half the content and 1/3 the profs... nobody is saying (OH WOW YOU GUYS ARE GREAT) -- when in fact as you can see in plain text they pretty much admit a failure.
If you somehow think that speach is some great review or plug of thier game then I realize you are not even on the same planet as some people.
Just use common sense this time at least. Read it for what it is... not what you think it should be.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
ROFL...
Now this one is the best response yet.
Yep thats right, they tell you the NGE was a mistake and they realized the player base they had was better then this one--- and you say this is because the game is doing well.
Oh my, the crack you smoke must be good.
You just cannot admit to the NGE being a failure can you? You cannot admit that the game prior was better then this one that your doing better in? I am sorry you did not do well in the harder versions of the game, I really am but to try to make the NGE sound like some great gift at this point is silly.
Read what the makers just said man.... crap even you are not that blind.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Bigtime..
How? The folks that hated teh NGE already left. The game reviewers already bashed the game six months ago on the NGE and left it at that. What else is it going to do? Hurt sales? thats a laugh.
I would say "Adds salt to injury" -- No matter what this cannot be good or positive. Sure it was at suck level BUT NOW it's below it with facts and statements from the makers itself.
They imply their mistake was in taking no concern of old players . In their OWN WORDS " The game is as solid as it has ever been . " Our guy's did a great job" .
Spin this article in your favor all you want , But nowhere did they say anything that you just did . Wow so they admitted to ,what everyone has known for a year now( two if you count cu ). They pissed off a ton of players , And hurt their image greatly . Everyone even them know ,They held little regard of current players in the choices made with nge .
What at all does this change ? Everything remains the same , NGE is SWG . Some people are happy , Others aren't . Half the player base is gone , 3/4 of them have moved on .The other 1/4 carrys on with this charade .
The lessons have been learned,And for sometime now , The rest of the gaming population has shifted focus to modern up-to-date games , SWG is of no factor in the gaming world anymore . . Do you think even SOE gives a rat's behind about this game ? If so I've got a bit of land to sell you , And it ain't in kansas .
The fact is SOE dosen't have to do a thing to SWG , To improve their image to the gaming populace.They have a much more popular I.P.(DC) to work with now , On top of the eq franchise .Not to mention titles like Vangaurd and Rome rising. SOE is in no trouble as a buisness , As an earlier poster said . They are on a mission not to create a game with the most subscibers .But to host an arsenal of semi-popular titles and offer something for every style of gaming out there .
Maybe its just me , But IMO this article does nothing but state the obvious.
Agree and I hate that.
It is nothing new, only good to see them say it themselves causing the NGErs to see it for what it is. Maybe just maybe one of them will now think different and realize that some of us 9 months ago were right.
On the flip side it is a numbers game and no doubt does not matter anymore.. it is too bad I do think SWG had a better chance and a longer life in it if they had not done this.
I think it is safe to say, these guys fucked up -- they know it, we know it.. now they are just trying to go out in style.
I say the game has a year left tops.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Rofl...
Nice spin... almost worthy of Devspeak.
But sometimes you have just have to use common sense O... even you cannot deny what they said about the NGE being a mistake, as in a no no.
They realized they shit on people and should not have introduced the NGE... how you don't see that is sad... whats worse is seeing them say that (oh in the last 6 months we got some bugs fixed) --- since the NGE has been live for 10 and they have half the content and 1/3 the profs... nobody is saying (OH WOW YOU GUYS ARE GREAT) -- when in fact as you can see in plain text they pretty much admit a failure.
If you somehow think that speach is some great review or plug of thier game then I realize you are not even on the same planet as some people.
Just use common sense this time at least. Read it for what it is... not what you think it should be.
If we're talking about the way the NGE was introduced, then no I don't agree with the way they went about it and I never have. I doubt anyone agrees with the way it was introduced, how it affected people differs from person to person though.
Rofl...
Nice spin... almost worthy of Devspeak.
But sometimes you have just have to use common sense O... even you cannot deny what they said about the NGE being a mistake, as in a no no.
They realized they shit on people and should not have introduced the NGE... how you don't see that is sad... whats worse is seeing them say that (oh in the last 6 months we got some bugs fixed) --- since the NGE has been live for 10 and they have half the content and 1/3 the profs... nobody is saying (OH WOW YOU GUYS ARE GREAT) -- when in fact as you can see in plain text they pretty much admit a failure.
If you somehow think that speach is some great review or plug of thier game then I realize you are not even on the same planet as some people.
Just use common sense this time at least. Read it for what it is... not what you think it should be.
If we're talking about the way the NGE was introduced, then no I don't agree with the way they went about it and I never have. I doubt anyone agrees with the way it was introduced, how it affected people differs from person to person though.
Dude how much freaking plain text will it take.
NOT THE WAY THEY DID IT, BUT THAT THEY DID IT AT ALL??? I mean come on..
I mean really, this is like arguing somthing that now even 3 major roles, blogs, creator of the game and now producers have even said was a mistake.
At this point I think that no matter what anyone says to you even the Devs themselves you will still think the NGE is some great gift to SWG.
It was a mistake, plain and simple, we know it, they know it and pretty much I think the rest of the gaming community knows it now.
If anything, your reaching now.... I mean really... IF IT WORKED YOU WOULD BE IN A GAME THAT HAD 2 million people.
Not 100k if that.... They introduced a peace of crap, it failed period. Good God man, they end by saying DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKES WE MADE IN SWG.... they did not say "introducing" they said several things in relation to failing.
Man, if this was a car company people would be dead.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
Rofl...
Nice spin... almost worthy of Devspeak.
But sometimes you have just have to use common sense O... even you cannot deny what they said about the NGE being a mistake, as in a no no.
They realized they shit on people and should not have introduced the NGE... how you don't see that is sad... whats worse is seeing them say that (oh in the last 6 months we got some bugs fixed) --- since the NGE has been live for 10 and they have half the content and 1/3 the profs... nobody is saying (OH WOW YOU GUYS ARE GREAT) -- when in fact as you can see in plain text they pretty much admit a failure.
If you somehow think that speach is some great review or plug of thier game then I realize you are not even on the same planet as some people.
Just use common sense this time at least. Read it for what it is... not what you think it should be.
If we're talking about the way the NGE was introduced, then no I don't agree with the way they went about it and I never have. I doubt anyone agrees with the way it was introduced, how it affected people differs from person to person though.
Im sorry man but that is just reaching. You really think the problem with the nge was how it was deliverd?. the new mythical player base this was aimed at atracting would'nt give 2 hoots how it was deliverd.
The game is bad, and its going to be offerd as a bumper bargain package. This is star wars not cosmic rift. it should be in the top ten at least no a freebie hand out for the station pass.
I know I'm jumping in here late but from that article.
So what happened with NGE? Blakely said the changes were "a big risk" that represented a push for a new market of customers, but that it "did not intersect fully with the market that we had."
That sounds to me like the first steps on admited that they didn't care or think of what the current players wanted while chasing that 'new market'.
Also I didn't see him say it was the NGE is the best version of the game, I saw him say:
There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job – we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months.
Solid for me doesn't mean best, it means most stable and bug free. Considering how many bugs they removed when they riped the depth out of the game I'm not suprised they consider it more 'solid'.
i would love to see what happened to the individual in charge that made the fateful decision, that ended up fataly damaging a franchise mmo........
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.