Raph Koster to game biz: evolve or die

scaramoosh · September 2006

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6157260.html?action=convert&click=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0

I know this isnt SWG but this is a forum that'll get the most replies

Athela · September 2006

Interesting speech he gave. Lots of emphasis on not treating customer like steaming piles...think about making a *good* name for yourself out there...was he referring in a backhanded way to the sicko customer service policies and bad name of a certain company?

chlaos · September 2006

Has Koster gone out of favor in the industry? I only ask because the newer games seem to stray so far from his ideals.

Rekrul · September 2006

Originally posted by chlaos
Has Koster gone out of favor in the industry? I only ask because the newer games seem to stray so far from his ideals.

Read this. Down-to-earth and quite reasonable explanation of why WoW and why definitely not WoW.

Also, it's from Bioware's own.

Shayde · September 2006

- Smart innovation. Which is what WoW did. The first game not to
release in a shameful state. But more importantly, WoW was soloable.
After years of all of us saying “but you need grouping.” That was their
core innovation that gave them the 10x multiplier.

I've said that since LAUNCH. Make most of the game soloable (not counting crafting/entertaining/social interconnectiveness).. and high-end things group essential.

People don't tend to WANT to talk to/find strangers. It's a turnoff. That, and if 90% of the stuff you NEED to do needs others *cough* EQ2 *cough*.. you can't play when you WANT to. HOW you want to.

You don’t need levels and XP, but you need a reason not to cancel.

Damn.. been saying that too. Big reason Classic SWG worked. Hell, it's the same reason a friend of mine STILL refuses to quit. He built a bunch of great museums and spent 2 years on them. They'll have to shut off the server to get him to quit... ALL BECAUSE OF HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS.. not his "level".

Now the real question is WHY doesn't the industry FREAKING LISTEN?!?!?!?!

Rekrul · September 2006

I've said that since LAUNCH. Make most of the game soloable (not counting crafting/entertaining/social interconnectiveness).. and high-end things group essential.

People don't tend to WANT to talk to/find strangers. It's a turnoff. That, and if 90% of the stuff you NEED to do needs others *cough* EQ2 *cough*.. you can't play when you WANT to. HOW you want to.

Soloable != anti-social.

This is what many misunderstand. SWG was soloable, but at the same time THE social game. Much more than many completely un-soloable games.

You don’t need levels and XP, but you need a reason not to cancel.

Damn.. been saying that too. Big reason Classic SWG worked. Hell, it's the same reason a friend of mine STILL refuses to quit. He built a bunch of great museums and spent 2 years on them. They'll have to shut off the server to get him to quit... ALL BECAUSE OF HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS.. not his "level".

Now the real question is WHY doesn't the industry FREAKING LISTEN?!?!?!?!

Listening, the ability to comprehend and power to create, are three separate matters.

hargrave · September 2006

Shayde that was the best post ive ever seen that is %100 right on and true i couldnt said it better

Originally posted by Shayde
- Smart innovation. Which is what WoW did. The first game not to
release in a shameful state. But more importantly, WoW was soloable.
After years of all of us saying but you need grouping. That was their
core innovation that gave them the 10x multiplier.
I've said that since LAUNCH. Make most of the game soloable (not counting crafting/entertaining/social interconnectiveness).. and high-end things group essential.People don't tend to WANT to talk to/find strangers. It's a turnoff. That, and if 90% of the stuff you NEED to do needs others *cough* EQ2 *cough*.. you can't play when you WANT to. HOW you want to.
You dont need levels and XP, but you need a reason not to cancel.
Damn.. been saying that too. Big reason Classic SWG worked. Hell, it's the same reason a friend of mine STILL refuses to quit. He built a bunch of great museums and spent 2 years on them. They'll have to shut off the server to get him to quit... ALL BECAUSE OF HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS.. not his "level".Now the real question is WHY doesn't the industry FREAKING LISTEN?!?!?!?!

Shayde · September 2006

I need to design a damn game.

Sure, I'd have to hire coders, but I know what people want. The developers have lost touch with PLAYING the damn game.

Was really telling to me was after the CU and NGE mess, Smed said he had forced all the employees to PLAY the game for a change. You mean they weren't before? OK.. it was obvious, but wrong.

dolanious · September 2006

I hope this mass extinction event happens soon -- I can't stand the drivvel that's on the market right now. I'm currently not playing anything as a result, and don't plan on playing anything untill around 2008-2009, that's when something good might come out.

My guess is, we wont see the extinction event untill after windows VISTA has been released. DX10 and VISTA -- meaning all the ancillary improvements that come along with every new OS (improved round of graphics cards, sounds cards, physics cards, multicore processors etc....) -- will be the catalyst for change in MMOs.

The only thing that will break the rut we're in is new technology, I reallly think that's going to be the key to force change.

Wildcat84 · September 2006

My gut tells me that this whole next generation crop of MMO's, the ones influenced by WoW (which, IMHO, started with DDO) are going to fail. I don't think there will be one hit among them.

SWG turned from a disappointing but nonetheless successful game into a death spiral when they tried to WoW it without the polish and without the content.

Same thing with all the other clones. DDO was released at least a year too early, and without any sort of, uh, world around it at all.

They are learning the wrong lesson from WoW. They think WoW killed EQ/EQ2/SWG and everything else because of it's simplicity, instances, quests, etc. Wrong, Blizzard kicked their asses because, as Shayde said, they were the first to release a MMO that basically was flawless from the beginning.

MMO's fail from word of mouth. The first wave of players come in, find everything broken and incomplete, then leave, telling everyone else the game is a steaming pile.

Tiller · September 2006

Originally posted by Wildcat84
My gut tells me that this whole next generation crop of MMO's, the ones influenced by WoW (which, IMHO, started with DDO) are going to fail. I don't think there will be one hit among them.

SWG turned from a disappointing but nonetheless successful game into a death spiral when they tried to WoW it without the polish and without the content.

Same thing with all the other clones. DDO was released at least a year too early, and without any sort of, uh, world around it at all.

They are learning the wrong lesson from WoW. They think WoW killed EQ/EQ2/SWG and everything else because of it's simplicity, instances, quests, etc. Wrong, Blizzard kicked their asses because, as Shayde said, they were the first to release a MMO that basically was flawless from the beginning.

MMO's fail from word of mouth. The first wave of players come in, find everything broken and incomplete, then leave, telling everyone else the game is a steaming pile.

Yeah I was gonna try DnL, but ater hearing from the people I knew who played it say it was awfull I never even bothered with it. If tons of people say it sucks, why waste my own money just to find that to be true.

scaramoosh · September 2006

I used to get flamed for saying how much it'll suck, i was right.

I saw aload of game footage leaked early on in games development and knew it hadnt changed one bit.

matraque · September 2006

koster... what is his next flop ?

PyscoJuggalo · September 2006

Originally posted by tillamook

Originally posted by Wildcat84
My gut tells me that this whole next generation crop of MMO's, the ones influenced by WoW (which, IMHO, started with DDO) are going to fail. I don't think there will be one hit among them.

SWG turned from a disappointing but nonetheless successful game into a death spiral when they tried to WoW it without the polish and without the content.

Same thing with all the other clones. DDO was released at least a year too early, and without any sort of, uh, world around it at all.

They are learning the wrong lesson from WoW. They think WoW killed EQ/EQ2/SWG and everything else because of it's simplicity, instances, quests, etc. Wrong, Blizzard kicked their asses because, as Shayde said, they were the first to release a MMO that basically was flawless from the beginning.

MMO's fail from word of mouth. The first wave of players come in, find everything broken and incomplete, then leave, telling everyone else the game is a steaming pile.

Yeah I was gonna try DnL, but ater hearing from the people I knew who played it say it was awfull I never even bothered with it. If tons of people say it sucks, why waste my own money just to find that to be true.

It's the golden rule of MMORPG's. If everybody says "BOY THIS GAME SUCKS!" then there is usually something wrong with the game.

Originally posted by scaramoosh

I used to get flamed for saying how much it'll suck, i was right.
I saw aload of game footage leaked early on in games development and knew it hadnt changed one bit.

I should have listened to you, would have saved me some money. But I
learned golden rule two with DnL: "NEVER PRE-ORDER ANYTHING!"

Shayde · September 2006

I had some friends try to get me into D&L early and stuff.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAA

At least they're playing for free now. Well, they aren't playing it, but they could.

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Raph Koster to game biz: evolve or die

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Raph Koster to game biz: evolve or die

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