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american revolution

cornoffcobcornoffcob Member Posts: 860
in Off-Topic Discussion

In US History i'm learning about the American Revolution(go figure). I've always been told about patriots and loyalists and things of that sort...but i was wondering if someone from the UK can give me their side on the revolution, what they are taught in their schools about it. Do you see the revolution as a good thing, do you take sides with the US or Britain in this matter? basically I want to know the other side of the matter.

I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people


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Comments

  • XeximaXexima Member UncommonPosts: 2,697
    You'er just doing that because that is your topic for debate on wednsday isnt it?  Jerk.  too bad I can't do that with mine.

  • NihilanthNihilanth Member Posts: 1,357

    I'm an American but I'm taking AP European History in school, so we look at the American Revolution from a European point of view.  If they teach it the same way in the UK as they do in AP Euro, then basically it's just taught as another war fought that happened to end up creating the world's current superpower.  Not that big of a deal.  Europe has had so many wars over the past 2000 years that in the grand scheme of things the Revolutionary War really isn't that big of a deal to them.  (It's also not called the Revolutionary War in Europe, obviously.  I believe the more common name is "The American War for Independence.")

    What most people fail to realize is that Great Britian wasn't just fighting America at the time of the Revolutionary War.  If they had been only fighting us, and didn't have to concentrate on a million different things at the same time, quite frankly they would have handed us our asses.  They weren't done paying off the French and Indian War Debts (that's the whole reason behind the taxes in the colonies that lit the fuse to start the war), and they really didn't have the means to wage a trans-Atlantic war, especially after France joined in.

    Whether or not you want to realize it, there is a tremendous amount of propaganda in the American way of teaching the American Revolution.  The American Revolution is so tied into American culture at this point that we as Americans like to make it seem like a much bigger deal than it really was at the time, and we like to "stretch" some truths about what really happened. (damn I said "American" a lot of times there)  For instance, the Boston Massarcre was not just the evil British firing at a bunch of helpless Americans. It was a violent, dangerous, angry mob that posed an actual threat to the British soldiers, who acted defensively.

    So basically it's really not a huge topic of discussion.  We as Americans just like to think it should be, because it's our war.

    Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
    Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
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  • cornoffcobcornoffcob Member Posts: 860

    Originally posted by Nihilanth
    I'm an American but I'm taking AP European History in school, so we look at the American Revolution from a European point of view. If they teach it the same way in the UK as they do in AP Euro, then basically it's just taught as another war fought that happened to end up creating the world's current superpower. Not that big of a deal. Europe has had so many wars over the past 2000 years that in the grand scheme of things the Revolutionary War really isn't that big of a deal to them. (It's also not called the Revolutionary War in Europe, obviously. I believe the more common name is "The American War for Independence.")
    What most people fail to realize is that Great Britian wasn't just fighting America at the time of the Revolutionary War. If they had been only fighting us, and didn't have to concentrate on a million different things at the same time, quite frankly they would have handed us our asses. They weren't done paying off the French and Indian War Debts (that's the whole reason behind the taxes in the colonies that lit the fuse to start the war), and they really didn't have the means to wage a trans-Atlantic war, especially after France joined in.
    Whether or not you want to realize it, there is a tremendous amount of propaganda in the American way of teaching the American Revolution. The American Revolution is so tied into American culture at this point that we as Americans like to make it seem like a much bigger deal than it really was at the time, and we like to "stretch" some truths about what really happened. (damn I said "American" a lot of times there) For instance, the Boston Massarcre was not just the evil British firing at a bunch of helpless Americans. It was a violent, dangerous, angry mob that posed an actual threat to the British soldiers, who acted defensively.
    So basically it's really not a huge topic of discussion. We as Americans just like to think it should be, because it's our war.


    lol believe me I know about the Revolution and what was going on during the time period, I've done a lot of research on it and i am in an ap course. I guess the main thing i'm wondering is if the british called the americans patriots or not during the war...

    I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people


    image

  • CowinspaceCowinspace Member Posts: 671

    Originally posted by Nihilanth

    I'm an American but I'm taking AP European History in school, so we look at the American Revolution from a European point of view.  If they teach it the same way in the UK as they do in AP Euro, then basically it's just taught as another war fought that happened to end up creating the world's current superpower.  Not that big of a deal.  Europe has had so many wars over the past 2000 years that in the grand scheme of things the Revolutionary War really isn't that big of a deal to them.  (It's also not called the Revolutionary War in Europe, obviously.  I believe the more common name is "The American War for Independence.")
    What most people fail to realize is that Great Britian wasn't just fighting America at the time of the Revolutionary War.  If they had been only fighting us, and didn't have to concentrate on a million different things at the same time, quite frankly they would have handed us our asses.  They weren't done paying off the French and Indian War Debts (that's the whole reason behind the taxes in the colonies that lit the fuse to start the war), and they really didn't have the means to wage a trans-Atlantic war, especially after France joined in.
    Whether or not you want to realize it, there is a tremendous amount of propaganda in the American way of teaching the American Revolution.  The American Revolution is so tied into American culture at this point that we as Americans like to make it seem like a much bigger deal than it really was at the time, and we like to "stretch" some truths about what really happened. (damn I said "American" a lot of times there)  For instance, the Boston Massarcre was not just the evil British firing at a bunch of helpless Americans. It was a violent, dangerous, angry mob that posed an actual threat to the British soldiers, who acted defensively.
    So basically it's really not a huge topic of discussion.  We as Americans just like to think it should be, because it's our war.
    Yeah thats pretty much how we were taught it. Just another colonial war, just happens we lost it (But then you had the French and Dutch on your side. )

    Hell we barely spent a day on it, It took about a week just to go through all the conflicts between the nations that make up the UK let alone european and world conflicts. (although this may vary depending on where you are in the UK, English education and curriculum is different to the Scots system. Up here we probably get an awful lot more on our own attempts to gain independance.[Your grudge with England is only what? a little over 200 years, we got 7~800years worth of grudge so get in line ).

    Originally posted by cornoffcob
    ol believe
    me I know about the Revolution and what was going on during the time
    period, I've done a lot of research on it and i am in an ap course. I
    guess the main thing i'm wondering is if the british called the
    americans patriots or not during the war...
    No the Revolutionaries were considered tratiors and would undoubtedly have been treated as such had the Americans lost (but that was during the war, its not like we still call you rebel colonial scum[ well not much ]). But as i said we don't really spend that much time on it. Point of persective to you is that this was the founding of your nation, to us it was yet another war. It only really became significant when the US emerged as a superpower.

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  • KorneliusKornelius Member Posts: 54

    In France we learn : ::::01::

    -That many people in the french army were very happy to fight a war that would be a shame for British ... ::::01:: (sorry sorry mates... lol)
    -That the King first accepted the idea of some french officers to go there because of the English (again and always ... lol) but then started to think of the consequences it would have in his own country...(but his authority was already declining...)
    -That the American Revolution gave ideas to French people to drive our Revolution (about 30 years later there were no more real "monarchy" in France)

    I probably missed some things but I think I told the most important... ::::01::

    GW- Warrior lvl18 - Monk lvl4
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  • TheodorykTheodoryk Member Posts: 1,453

    In Poland the American Revolution is taught very much from the perspective of one Tadeusz Kosciuszko (1746 – 1817), a man Thomas Jefferson refered to as "As pure a son of liberty as I have ever known", and a distant cousin of mine.

    Tadeusz Kosciuszko was a close personal friend of both Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, a leader of the Polish Jacobin movement, and one of the main forces behind the signing of the Polish May Constitution of 1792, Europe's first modern constitution and second in the world after that of the USA.

    He served as Chief Engineer and Colonel in the Continental Army during the American Revolutionary War, at the end of which service he was promoted to the rank of Brigadier General, received a gift of land, was naturalised as an American citizen, and was accepted into the prestigious Society of the Cincinnati.

    He would go on to serve in Poland's wars against Austria, Prussia and Russia, and would eventually be the Commander-in-Chief of Polish forces in Poland's last-gasp uprising against the Russian Empire in 1794. After being pardoned by the Tsar and released from prison in St. Petersburg, he left for France, where he helped organize the Polish Legions which would eventually serve under Napoleon.

    Kosciuszko is very much a national hero in both Poland and the USA, he has many monuments and sites named after him in both countries (including two bridges in New York). In Poland he serves as a reminder of the "revolutionary trio" of the eighteenth century, that is to say, of the romantic revolutionary bond between America, France, and Poland, a particular fraternity which has prevailed in the hearts of Poles for over two hundred years.

    Its sad to say that it seems not much emphasis is put on this common history in either France or the USA, and I must admit that I've encountered an amazing amount of anti-Polish sentiment in both countries. I suppose people draw their sympathies and prejudices from various sources, both accurate and inaccurate, and I'm not one to judge others in this context. Personaly, I often state that "I am an American", and I hope that this little mini-essay of mine sheds some light on my position.

    For those of you who would like to read more about Tadeusz Kosciuszko, there is always the all-mighty Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadeusz_Ko%C5%9Bciuszko

    "Speaking haygywaygy or some other gibberish with your mum doesn't make you foreign."
    -baff

  • outfctrloutfctrl Member UncommonPosts: 3,619
    What would the US today be like if England stopped the revolutionists.

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  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457
    Canada.
  • fulmanfufulmanfu Member Posts: 1,523

    written history is so skewed it's funny.
    i mean come on, one of the only 2 people we have a holliday honoring is the guy who introduced slave trade over the atlantic and started the largest genocide in the history of the world

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457

    Firstly, we aren't taught about the American Revolution in English schools.

    We have our own revolutions to learn about. We don't study American history at all.

    .

    From an English perspective, North America is a primarily a colonial struggle between the English and the French. There are a lot of battles and the turf changes hands a lot. (Last of the Mohecans/Sid Meyers Pirates type stuff).

    England gets the upper hand and pretty much unifies the place.....

    At this point, after the French Revolution, Napoleon is doing his little Hitler routine in Europe and the British, Spanish and Germans are all trying to stop him. This is the important war. There are 6 British legions fighting in Europe and only 1 in America.

    We ban all trade with France in all Brtitsh controlled territories as part of this war effort. This agitates some rather rich, pro french types in the Americas who make all their money trading with France and an opportunist revolution ensues. This revoluiton does not occour overnight and despite endless conscessions and subsidies. (The lowest tax anywhere in the Empire, 1/346 of English tax rate). There is no appeasement.

    Due to the rather more serious war in France, no reinforcements are sent, neither after the fight is lost is there any particular will to reconquer. The people fighting us were still essentially our kinsmen and the colony has yet to become profitable. On the defeat of Napoleon, no extra armies are dispatched. Our expensive to run army wasn't there to fight our colonists in the first place.

    The French Americans win. The French Republic system of government introduced. The French people send the Statue of Liberty in recognition of kindred spirit. North America segregates between French styled government in the south and British in the North. Canada and The United States of America are born.

    It is widely believed that the lessons learnt from American independence helped greatly to temper the treatment of the colonies in Canada, New Zealand and Australia. The same mistakes were not repeated. In Canada, the French are allowed to speak French, practise their own religions, that kind of thing. Multicuturalism is born.

  • nero666nero666 Member Posts: 205

    Originally posted by baff

    Firstly, we aren't taught about the American Revolution in English schools.
    We have our own revolutions to learn about. We don't study American history at all.
    .
    From an English perspective, North America is a primarily a colonial struggle between the English and the French. There are a lot of battles and the turf changes hands a lot. (Last of the Mohecans/Sid Meyers Pirates type stuff).
    England gets the upper hand and pretty much unifies the place.....
    At this point, after the French Revolution, Napoleon is doing his little Hitler routine in Europe and the British, Spanish and Germans are all trying to stop him. This is the important war. There are 6 British legions fighting in Europe and only 1 in America.
    We ban all trade with France in all Brtitsh controlled territories as part of this war effort. This agitates some rather rich, pro french types in the Americas who make all their money trading with France and an opportunist revolution ensues. This revoluiton does not occour overnight and despite endless conscessions and subsidies. (The lowest tax anywhere in the Empire, 1/346 of English tax rate). There is no appeasement.
    Due to the rather more serious war in France, no reinforcements are sent, neither after the fight is lost is there any particular will to reconquer. The people fighting us were still essentially our kinsmen and the colony has yet to become profitable. On the defeat of Napoleon, no extra armies are dispatched. Our expensive to run army wasn't there to fight our colonists in the first place.
    The French Americans win. The French Republic system of government introduced. The French people send the Statue of Liberty in recognition of kindred spirit. North America segregates between French styled government in the south and British in the North. Canada and The United States of America are born.
    It is widely believed that the lessons learnt from American independence helped greatly to temper the treatment of the colonies in Canada, New Zealand and Australia. The same mistakes were not repeated. In Canada, the French are allowed to speak French, practise their own religions, that kind of thing. Multicuturalism is born.


    and now UK is poor 51 states of america..or colony ^^

    UK is so importent like Mongolia now

    and mongols imperium was 3 times bigger


  • outfctrloutfctrl Member UncommonPosts: 3,619
    I wonder if we get any college credits for this topic?

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  • MeonMeon Member Posts: 993

    I never learned about the American revolution. Instead we learn about random revolts and "indipendence" movements, Ie. Cromwell's beheading of the British king (I believe it was Charles?), 80 year war of indipendence in The Netherlands, French revolution, 100 years war, Bismarck's unification of Germany, etc...

    But i know enough about the American revolution to say that there was alot of luck involved :)

    edit: i forgot to add these topics were not learned in the order i gave them in, nor were they learned in the same class.

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457

    Originally posted by nero666


    and now UK is poor 51 states of america..or colony ^^
    UK is so importent like Mongolia now
    and mongols imperium was 3 times bigger



    Yeah we lost our final piece of the Mongol empire in 1992.

    We have American colonies here, but I prefer the term Client Kingdom. As long as we lend them our armies whenever they ask they don't attack us. In return we get self rule and sopmeone to trade with.

    We have of course something of a track record of destroying super powers who get a bit too pushy. So probably no need to worry about it too much.

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