Originally posted by Rattrap Still , what he did was metagaming It is totally diferent to scam people , get away with it AND CONTINUE PLAYING Than scam people and than quit the character ... One would be gameplay scam , kudos to him for managing to pull it of. While the later is simply METAGAME EXPLOIT the fact that although EVE simulates economy - it is far away from doing that succesfully BECAUSE EVE can not and has no system of Currency control. What i mean is , AND IN PURELY ANARCHISTIC SIMPLETON terms. When for some reason A owns money to B - he can either 1.give it to B , 2. Not give it to B - in which case B kills him and gets money anyway He can not 3. Log out and phase out of existance (surelly he can hide , but there is arisk of being caught , and it is not the same fail safe way as quitting the char)
In my oppinion EVE must deal with this. Perhaps make NPC character that simulates hiding culprit , let players try to find him...somehow the ISK must be returned to the economy... Everything else just screams "This game is ridden with exploits"
So the question is in RL if you gave someone 200 million in cash as part of a loan with no writen hard copy version of the transaction, and he doesn't pay you back who is the idiot? the goverment for not protecting you or your self for being so stupid to not have Collaterol(sp?), a written contract, and an attorney to make sure it was legally binding?
So people create alts and then delete them, but guess what would I trust someone with a non-game supported venture with no employment history out side of a noob corp and only a few days old? NO. After you play a while you should be able to pick out mains and alts with some ease. Look at ISS, I trust a stock offering from them because:
A. its an Alliance, they have put up a billion to start the alliance and have tons of Assets which you can hurt/destroy. B. its an Alliance, you can get a hold of the lists of the member corps and hurt them if they disband. C. again I can track down those people.
So it all comes down to "DO YOUR RESEARCH", just like RL investments in EVE are not certain and should be researched heavily before investing. Of course you can also just ignore it all, blindly stumble your way through the game hoping that there aren't people trying to scam you and everyone wants to give you a hug and some flowers; but well thats your perogative.
So the question is in RL if you gave someone 200 million in cash as part of a loan with no writen hard copy version of the transaction, and he doesn't pay you back who is the idiot? the goverment for not protecting you or your self for being so stupid to not have Collaterol(sp?), a written contract, and an attorney to make sure it was legally binding?
Not true. Any form of scamming people out money or goods is illegal. If proof exists (whitness will do). And if the money fraud is large enough, be sure the perpetrator would be persecuted with full extent of law.
So people create alts and then delete them, but guess what would I trust someone with a non-game supported venture with no employment history out side of a noob corp and only a few days old? NO.
The corp in question was well well established in EVE. And the person responsible invested large amounts of timein building his reputation (So very lame if you ask me)
Of course you can also just ignore it all, blindly stumble your way through the game hoping that there aren't people trying to scam you and everyone wants to give you a hug and some flowers; but well thats your perogative.
Being good and perfect as it is EVE is still just a game. And people play games to have fun. Being scammed out credits you worked for over a year is frustrating and not at all fun.
Sure you can say "It is your fault". But i say : Dont pretend EVE has working economy when it actually does not!
If you want reality in the game , well that is freaking awsome - but you have to make it work. Not have some half baked economic system full of exploits and pretend it is the real thing
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Well considering the new escrow system will pretty much get rid of these lame spam tactics such as posting 10 or 20 messages saying its a rare item but its not, id say the issue is pretty much settled as for the EIB scam its your own fault if you invested in it.
Think about it this way all isk and items and your game time is intelectual property of ccp its even in EULA so scamming people ingame is hardly illegal. In fact its been given the green light by ccp as it makes things more real. With the new market and mission and esrow systems comming out it wuill make things much safer and interesting so im not worried.
Originally posted by kalyessa I have been one of the victims of that scam. My reimbursement petition was deleted by CCP without further notice after escalating it to a senior GM.
I have now started liquidating my assets and selling those through Ebay. Once that is done, I will contact my CC company and get as much from the subscription money back that I can.
CCP enjoys seeing carebears get screwed over, but even those carebears have teeth if angered properly.
I'm sorry but you have no right to get any money back from your CC company. You paid for access to a service (the game) and you got just that. Anything that happens in-game has absolutely no bearing on your ability to log in and use that service. Investing in the EIB was a decision you made. If you want to blame anyone for getting burned it should be yourself.
BUT again, what have ANY of this got to do with CCP banning or not banning someone for scamming in or out of game?
All I am saying is that if people think that something like EIB is as nasty as EVE players can get, then people are being naive. Justice is whatever CCP decides it is, and frankly, they have no reason to care if people are enjoying themselves or not. If you cancel, they still get at least $20.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Not true. Any form of scamming people out money or goods is illegal. If proof exists (whitness will do). And if the money fraud is large enough, be sure the perpetrator would be persecuted with full extent of law.
Not true while some scams are such as pyramid, Bait and Switch, therre are many other scams that while unethical are not illegal. Most of them do require the bait to be niave/stupid. Now, just because a scam was for a large portion of money does not mean that it will get prosecuted. In fact as above if the person is smart enough and law savy there may be nothing you can do about it. Where there's a will there's a loophole.
The corp in question was well well established in EVE. And the person responsible invested large amounts of timein building his reputation (So very lame if you ask me)
At the begining EIB was not a well established corp. in fact it was declared as a scam and if not for several people declaring that it honest who happened to be respected member of the EVE community (note they were not apart of the scam according to the prepertrator) it would not have gotten off the ground. And surprisingly just like real life the ones with the greatest reputation often has the chance to embezzel/steal/scam the most. (Tycco and several other companies come to mind off the top of my head. They just got greedy and got caught.) But I will say again, When you step out of the "legal" ways to document a dealing then the chance for you to be scammed/riped off become much greater.
Being good and perfect as it is EVE is still just a game. And people play games to have fun. Being scammed out credits you worked for over a year is frustrating and not at all fun.
Sure you can say "It is your fault". But i say : Dont pretend EVE has working economy when it actually does not!
If you want reality in the game , well that is freaking awsome - but you have to make it work. Not have some half baked economic system full of exploits and pretend it is the real thing
And EVE does have a working economy, with a well regulated market that includes the T1 and T2 markets. Now when you start dealing in the "Art" of EVE, through the escrow section just like in real life you have to do your research and get it checked out. You have to make sure that it is what you think you are buying. In real life, you have appraisers, auction houses and other tools to make sure your buying a "Picaso" and not somebody trying to pass a fake. In game you have simple tools like Show info, and escrow to make sure that you are buying what you think your buying. And when a true game system exploit is used to scam someone then CCP will take action. perfect example is the current BPC/BPO marking issue in escrow, anyone seen taking advantage of this will be banned.
In the end it comes down to this NOONE CAN FORCE YOU TO BE SCAMMED. All current scams require the mark to be stupid/greedy. There is absolutely nothing ingame that requires you to go out of game to handle something. There was nothing that forced anyone to give money to someone to make intrest off of it. There is no FDIC in EVE, when I first saw EIB, I noticed that there was nothing I could do to get my money back if they decide to not return it so I said no to this. I could do the same in almost any MMORPG out there and NONE of them would give you anything back because you trusted someones word.
Sorry to belabour a point, but, there is only one simple question that needs to be asked here:
"If it is not possible to misrepresent virtue, then what is the point of conscience?"
People are born with this freedom. CCP doesn't grant this freedom, they merely chose not to distort it.
That said, the vast majority of players in EVE [i]choose[/i] not to be dorks as much as they can avoid it, solely to establish this as their reputation. The players here exist amongst other players and other reputations, not amongst isk or toys or levels. Those that cannot be loved choose to be grudgingly respected if they choose to be recognized at all.
Comments
So people create alts and then delete them, but guess what would I trust someone with a non-game supported venture with no employment history out side of a noob corp and only a few days old? NO. After you play a while you should be able to pick out mains and alts with some ease. Look at ISS, I trust a stock offering from them because:
A. its an Alliance, they have put up a billion to start the alliance and have tons of Assets which you can hurt/destroy.
B. its an Alliance, you can get a hold of the lists of the member corps and hurt them if they disband.
C. again I can track down those people.
So it all comes down to "DO YOUR RESEARCH", just like RL investments in EVE are not certain and should be researched heavily before investing. Of course you can also just ignore it all, blindly stumble your way through the game hoping that there aren't people trying to scam you and everyone wants to give you a hug and some flowers; but well thats your perogative.
_________________________________
playing:
ww2online: Fader
EVE: Fader Bane
proud member of BKB http://www.bkbhq.com/
I must say
What an utterly stupid post....
So the question is in RL if you gave someone 200 million in cash as part of a loan with no writen hard copy version of the transaction, and he doesn't pay you back who is the idiot? the goverment for not protecting you or your self for being so stupid to not have Collaterol(sp?), a written contract, and an attorney to make sure it was legally binding?
Not true. Any form of scamming people out money or goods is illegal. If proof exists (whitness will do). And if the money fraud is large enough, be sure the perpetrator would be persecuted with full extent of law.
So people create alts and then delete them, but guess what would I trust someone with a non-game supported venture with no employment history out side of a noob corp and only a few days old? NO.
The corp in question was well well established in EVE. And the person responsible invested large amounts of timein building his reputation (So very lame if you ask me)
Of course you can also just ignore it all, blindly stumble your way through the game hoping that there aren't people trying to scam you and everyone wants to give you a hug and some flowers; but well thats your perogative.
Being good and perfect as it is EVE is still just a game. And people play games to have fun. Being scammed out credits you worked for over a year is frustrating and not at all fun.
Sure you can say "It is your fault".
But i say : Dont pretend EVE has working economy when it actually does not!
If you want reality in the game , well that is freaking awsome - but you have to make it work. Not have some half baked economic system full of exploits and pretend it is the real thing
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Well considering the new escrow system will pretty much get rid of these lame spam tactics such as posting 10 or 20 messages saying its a rare item but its not, id say the issue is pretty much settled as for the EIB scam its your own fault if you invested in it.
Think about it this way all isk and items and your game time is intelectual property of ccp its even in EULA so scamming people ingame is hardly illegal. In fact its been given the green light by ccp as it makes things more real. With the new market and mission and esrow systems comming out it wuill make things much safer and interesting so im not worried.
All I am saying is that if people think that something like EIB is as nasty as EVE players can get, then people are being naive. Justice is whatever CCP decides it is, and frankly, they have no reason to care if people are enjoying themselves or not. If you cancel, they still get at least $20.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
"If it is not possible to misrepresent virtue, then what is the point of conscience?"
People are born with this freedom. CCP doesn't grant this freedom, they merely chose not to distort it.
That said, the vast majority of players in EVE [i]choose[/i] not to be dorks as much as they can avoid it, solely to establish this as their reputation. The players here exist amongst other players and other reputations, not amongst isk or toys or levels. Those that cannot be loved choose to be grudgingly respected if they choose to be recognized at all.