There are gamers that want the EQ "hardcore" style of gameplay.
There are gamers that want the WoW style of gameplay.
Can 1 game accomodate both players? I think not. I also believe that a game that tries to will probably fail and in the end frustrate both types of gamers.
For example, there are FPS games out there that require you to play stealthy, there are FPS games out there that require you to run out with guns blazing. Those games, while the same genre, will not always appeal to the same gamer. It would be hard to make an FPS game support both types of gameplay without crippling both of them to some degree, you end up with a hybrid and we all know hybrids suck
Originally posted by jonaku Originally posted by baphamet there are plenty of other games out there that will be far greater for a true casual gamer than vanguard, go play one of those.
like 99% of the vanbois at the vanguard forum, you have resorted to the tired old line "i think you would enjoy a game like WOW more."
oh, that reminds me, that's the other reason why i don't like vanguard: the community of vanbois is so repulsive in their elitist sadomasochistic zealous adoration of the vision(tm) that i find it sickening. any game that attracts such a horrid community of people is just bad, bad, bad and must be destroyed or overhauled at any cost.
and when the game launches to a disappointing 150 K subscribers, well below that targeted 500 k subscribers, i will el oh el as the fit hits the shan internally at vanguard when they will have to do an $0e nge revamp of the game.
u vanbois so mindlessly defend the game it's hilarious.
Well then, what is it Jonaku...what do YOU want out of Vanguard, or any MMO for that matter? What do YOU think it would take for Vanguard to be the mass appealing, groundbreaking MMO that you so require?
You don't want the overused "You might not like this game" line, but what do you want to hear? What other line is there to give? The type of game that you seem to be suggesting you would like isn't anything like the game that Sigil has suggested they are making.
I mean, something about this game must be holding your interest. There has to be something that keeps you coming back to these forums to try to proove to us that our hopes are misplaced. What is it then?
thanks for the insight but he's right. my post WAS better. u know. just as an fyi.
yeah i admit, yours was far better......i guess i have alot to learn in the art of trolling.
sweet, thanks for calling me a troll. i appreciate the personal attack. it only reinforces my assertion that the vanguard fanboi community squelches any dissent by any means.
Originally posted by jonaku sweet, thanks for calling me a troll. i appreciate the personal attack. it only reinforces my assertion that the vanguard fanboi community squelches any dissent by any means.
Can you refresh my memory of the "dissents" of Vanguard? A list or just a paragraph or two of the major dislikes of the game would be nice. I for one can't really remember seeing them before. Thanks.
Originally posted by dragonace Originally posted by jonaku sweet, thanks for calling me a troll. i appreciate the personal attack. it only reinforces my assertion that the vanguard fanboi community squelches any dissent by any means.
Can you refresh my memory of the "dissents" of Vanguard? A list or just a paragraph or two of the major dislikes of the game would be nice. I for one can't really remember seeing them before. Thanks.
-- delete the death penalty
-- delete the corpse run
-- add GPS dots to maps
-- add detailed maps
-- make the XP level curve easier so that you can reach max level in 2 months instead of 6 to 12 months (with so many races and classes, this allows the casual player to have fun and play for a long period of time developing multiple characters like they do in wow where many people have multiple lvl 60s)
-- delete diplomacy, it's st00pid
-- increase solo content to 50%, group content at 40%, raid content at 10%
-- increase max group size to 20 characters
-- ensure testing of pvp in beta 3, instead of making pvp a last priority that isn't tested until beta 5
-- keep the lore
-- keep the large world
-- keep the lack of instancing
-- keep the graphics engine
-- keep the flying mounts
-- keep the boats
-- keep the crafting
-- keep the housing & town mechanics
-- keep the advanced encounter system
-- another alternative is to create alternate ruleset servers, where you have one server with hardcore rules (no maps, permadeath after 5 deaths, forced grouping, slower xp curve) and casual rules. (of course, that won't work, because hardcore players derive no utility from the entire game if a bunch of people on another server are enjoying themselves on casual rules, hardcore peeps derive sick pleasure from the discomfort of casuals)
Originally posted by jonaku Originally posted by dragonace Originally posted by jonaku sweet, thanks for calling me a troll. i appreciate the personal attack. it only reinforces my assertion that the vanguard fanboi community squelches any dissent by any means.
Can you refresh my memory of the "dissents" of Vanguard? A list or just a paragraph or two of the major dislikes of the game would be nice. I for one can't really remember seeing them before. Thanks.
-- delete the death penalty
Hopefully won't happen
-- delete the corpse run
Hey, man...Even WoW has a corpse run.
-- add GPS dots to maps
You have a trail to your corpse and a lil' marker indicating where you are already.
-- add detailed maps
There are Maps.
The Vanguard maps are some of the most geographically detailed I've seen in an MMO. The "Hardcore" players, or the ones that are pushing for a harder game have been demanding no maps, and Sigil has refused to take their maps out.
-- make the XP level curve easier so that you can reach max level in 2 months instead of 6 to 12 months (with so many races and classes, this allows the casual player to have fun and play for a long period of time developing multiple characters like they do in wow where many people have multiple lvl 60s)
The level curve really doesn't matter so long as there is plenty of content to consume with only an appropriate amount of repetition. Beings that none of us have played the game, we really don't know if the content will support a longer leveling curve....Sigi knows this...that's why the leveling curve really won't be set in stone until very late closed Beta or Open Beta.
-- delete diplomacy, it's st00pid
Diplomacy is sorta one of those things that, like crafting, if you don't like it, you don't have to play it. I, for one, am very very excited about Diplomacy.
Have you read all the new stuff about it? o.O This sounds like what I dreamed Elderscrolls was gonna be like.
-- increase solo content to 50%, group content at 40%, raid content at 10%
Not sure if you knew this, but like only 15% or so of players solo exclusively... and solo players get through content alot slower than groupers. I'm almost certain that the 20% Solo, 60% Group, 20% Raid will fit the demographics of the MMO community almost perfectly.
-- increase max group size to 20 characters
What would this accomplish? Raid groups are only 25 people in Vangaurd right now....and besides, I thought you disliked raiding.
-- ensure testing of pvp in beta 3, instead of making pvp a last priority that isn't tested until beta 5
Well...you can't really have balanced PvP if you don't have all of the classes in yet, now can you. Be realistic. Some very very popular MMOs that have an emphasis on PvP didn't even have the full PvP mechanics in the game until like 6 months after launch.
While Vanguard will have PvP servers, they've made it quite clear that it is a PvE game. Which is just fine and dandy. You need Games for the PvE players too, don't you? You can't have PvP in the next Myst installment. You have to make sure that PvP even fits your game before you try to add it, and given the lore...well...it doesn't entirely fit in Vanguard just yet.
-- keep the lore
-- keep the large world
-- keep the lack of instancing
-- keep the graphics engine
-- keep the flying mounts
-- keep the boats
-- keep the crafting
-- keep the housing & town mechanics
-- keep the advanced encounter system
-- another alternative is to create alternate ruleset servers, where you have one server with hardcore rules (no maps, permadeath after 5 deaths, forced grouping, slower xp curve) and casual rules. (of course, that won't work, because hardcore players derive no utility from the entire game if a bunch of people on another server are enjoying themselves on casual rules, hardcore peeps derive sick pleasure from the discomfort of casuals)
that's all i am asking for.
Honestly....I know you don't like hearing things like this, and you may think it's a cop out...but, I mean seriously...
What even interests you in this game? You like the expansive world, you like the seamless world. In other threads you've said that you didn't like the seamless world/no instancing because of Spawn Camping... So I'm not entirely sure what to believe from you.
You like the idea of boats and player cities, no? You like the idea of owning boats, but (like in other threads you've posted) you don't like the idea of long travel? How do you suppose that the game developers keep people interested in sailing boats (which they love the idea of) if you're going to offer them quicker, faster, on-demand travel.....more pressing, I suppose, how would you, as a developer, justify writing all that code for sea travel (wind direction, physics, art, camera movement, controls, etc.) when only a minority of the players will use sea travel because its easier on your time if you just teleport?
You're making assumptions about the mapping system and the death penalties (which are still in flux), and you make assumptions about what the XP curve needs to be for this game, without realizing that the XP curve needs to be relative to the game you're playing. WoWs curve I felt was too short for the content available...I missed so many quests and didn't even go into some of the zones before I got my first lvl 60....where, a game like CoH I felt the curve was too long due to the fact that the missions were so repetative (may have changed by now)
Originally posted by jonaku sweet, thanks for calling me a troll. i appreciate the personal attack. it only reinforces my assertion that the vanguard fanboi community squelches any dissent by any means.
lol are you kidding me? so you think me calling you a troll is anywhere near as bad as you calling out every vanguard fan calling them "vanboi" or just insulting them in general saying how terrible they are or how they are ruining vanguard?
i cannot have a discussion with you any further, it is quite clear you are just wanting a flame war....i mean i really cant believe you are accusing me of "attacking you" when that is literally all you do in every single post you make.
like i said yesterday, I'm done feeding you attention...that is all.
sweet, thanks for calling me a troll. i appreciate the personal attack. it only reinforces my assertion that the vanguard fanboi community squelches any dissent by any means.
lol are you kidding me? so you think me calling you a troll is anywhere near as bad as you calling out every vanguard fan calling them "vanboi" or just insulting them in general saying how terrible they are or how they are ruining vanguard?
i cannot have a discussion with you any further, it is quite clear you are just wanting a flame war....i mean i really cant believe you are accusing me of "attacking you" when that is literally all you do in every single post you make.
like i said yesterday, I'm done feeding you attention...that is all.
your replies are so illogical and divorced from reality that i'm not sure if you're a troll or not. either way, i'm glad to see you're no longer interested in this discussion. it got tiresome very quickly. have a vanguardsy day !
Originally posted by jonaku your replies are so illogical and divorced from reality that i'm not sure if you're a troll or not. either way, i'm glad to see you're no longer interested in this discussion. it got tiresome very quickly. have a vanguardsy day !
the feeling is mutual...have fun bashing the game and community you love to hate.
Originally posted by Vengeful Originally posted by jonaku Originally posted by dragonace Originally posted by jonaku sweet, thanks for calling me a troll. i appreciate the personal attack. it only reinforces my assertion that the vanguard fanboi community squelches any dissent by any means.
Can you refresh my memory of the "dissents" of Vanguard? A list or just a paragraph or two of the major dislikes of the game would be nice. I for one can't really remember seeing them before. Thanks.
-- delete the death penalty
Hopefully won't happen
-- delete the corpse run
Hey, man...Even WoW has a corpse run.
-- add GPS dots to maps
You have a trail to your corpse and a lil' marker indicating where you are already.
-- add detailed maps
There are Maps.
The Vanguard maps are some of the most geographically detailed I've seen in an MMO. The "Hardcore" players, or the ones that are pushing for a harder game have been demanding no maps, and Sigil has refused to take their maps out.
-- make the XP level curve easier so that you can reach max level in 2 months instead of 6 to 12 months (with so many races and classes, this allows the casual player to have fun and play for a long period of time developing multiple characters like they do in wow where many people have multiple lvl 60s)
The level curve really doesn't matter so long as there is plenty of content to consume with only an appropriate amount of repetition. Beings that none of us have played the game, we really don't know if the content will support a longer leveling curve....Sigi knows this...that's why the leveling curve really won't be set in stone until very late closed Beta or Open Beta.
-- delete diplomacy, it's st00pid
Diplomacy is sorta one of those things that, like crafting, if you don't like it, you don't have to play it. I, for one, am very very excited about Diplomacy.
Have you read all the new stuff about it? o.O This sounds like what I dreamed Elderscrolls was gonna be like.
-- increase solo content to 50%, group content at 40%, raid content at 10%
Not sure if you knew this, but like only 15% or so of players solo exclusively... and solo players get through content alot slower than groupers. I'm almost certain that the 20% Solo, 60% Group, 20% Raid will fit the demographics of the MMO community almost perfectly.
-- increase max group size to 20 characters
What would this accomplish? Raid groups are only 25 people in Vangaurd right now....and besides, I thought you disliked raiding.
-- ensure testing of pvp in beta 3, instead of making pvp a last priority that isn't tested until beta 5
Well...you can't really have balanced PvP if you don't have all of the classes in yet, now can you. Be realistic. Some very very popular MMOs that have an emphasis on PvP didn't even have the full PvP mechanics in the game until like 6 months after launch.
While Vanguard will have PvP servers, they've made it quite clear that it is a PvE game. Which is just fine and dandy. You need Games for the PvE players too, don't you? You can't have PvP in the next Myst installment. You have to make sure that PvP even fits your game before you try to add it, and given the lore...well...it doesn't entirely fit in Vanguard just yet.
-- keep the lore
-- keep the large world
-- keep the lack of instancing
-- keep the graphics engine
-- keep the flying mounts
-- keep the boats
-- keep the crafting
-- keep the housing & town mechanics
-- keep the advanced encounter system
-- another alternative is to create alternate ruleset servers, where you have one server with hardcore rules (no maps, permadeath after 5 deaths, forced grouping, slower xp curve) and casual rules. (of course, that won't work, because hardcore players derive no utility from the entire game if a bunch of people on another server are enjoying themselves on casual rules, hardcore peeps derive sick pleasure from the discomfort of casuals)
that's all i am asking for.
Honestly....I know you don't like hearing things like this, and you may think it's a cop out...but, I mean seriously...
What even interests you in this game? You like the expansive world, you like the seamless world. In other threads you've said that you didn't like the seamless world/no instancing because of Spawn Camping... So I'm not entirely sure what to believe from you.
You like the idea of boats and player cities, no? You like the idea of owning boats, but (like in other threads you've posted) you don't like the idea of long travel? How do you suppose that the game developers keep people interested in sailing boats (which they love the idea of) if you're going to offer them quicker, faster, on-demand travel.....more pressing, I suppose, how would you, as a developer, justify writing all that code for sea travel (wind direction, physics, art, camera movement, controls, etc.) when only a minority of the players will use sea travel because its easier on your time if you just teleport?
You're making assumptions about the mapping system and the death penalties (which are still in flux), and you make assumptions about what the XP curve needs to be for this game, without realizing that the XP curve needs to be relative to the game you're playing. WoWs curve I felt was too short for the content available...I missed so many quests and didn't even go into some of the zones before I got my first lvl 60....where, a game like CoH I felt the curve was too long due to the fact that the missions were so repetative (may have changed by now)
i've already heard this drivel on the vanguard forums ad nauseum. i'm not going to argue with you point by point on it. that's not the point of this particular thread.
Originally posted by Vengeful Originally posted by jonaku Originally posted by dragonace Originally posted by jonaku sweet, thanks for calling me a troll. i appreciate the personal attack. it only reinforces my assertion that the vanguard fanboi community squelches any dissent by any means.
Can you refresh my memory of the "dissents" of Vanguard? A list or just a paragraph or two of the major dislikes of the game would be nice. I for one can't really remember seeing them before. Thanks.
-- delete the death penalty
Hopefully won't happen
-- delete the corpse run
Hey, man...Even WoW has a corpse run.
-- add GPS dots to maps
You have a trail to your corpse and a lil' marker indicating where you are already.
-- add detailed maps
There are Maps.
The Vanguard maps are some of the most geographically detailed I've seen in an MMO. The "Hardcore" players, or the ones that are pushing for a harder game have been demanding no maps, and Sigil has refused to take their maps out.
-- make the XP level curve easier so that you can reach max level in 2 months instead of 6 to 12 months (with so many races and classes, this allows the casual player to have fun and play for a long period of time developing multiple characters like they do in wow where many people have multiple lvl 60s)
The level curve really doesn't matter so long as there is plenty of content to consume with only an appropriate amount of repetition. Beings that none of us have played the game, we really don't know if the content will support a longer leveling curve....Sigi knows this...that's why the leveling curve really won't be set in stone until very late closed Beta or Open Beta.
-- delete diplomacy, it's st00pid
Diplomacy is sorta one of those things that, like crafting, if you don't like it, you don't have to play it. I, for one, am very very excited about Diplomacy.
Have you read all the new stuff about it? o.O This sounds like what I dreamed Elderscrolls was gonna be like.
-- increase solo content to 50%, group content at 40%, raid content at 10%
Not sure if you knew this, but like only 15% or so of players solo exclusively... and solo players get through content alot slower than groupers. I'm almost certain that the 20% Solo, 60% Group, 20% Raid will fit the demographics of the MMO community almost perfectly.
-- increase max group size to 20 characters
What would this accomplish? Raid groups are only 25 people in Vangaurd right now....and besides, I thought you disliked raiding.
-- ensure testing of pvp in beta 3, instead of making pvp a last priority that isn't tested until beta 5
Well...you can't really have balanced PvP if you don't have all of the classes in yet, now can you. Be realistic. Some very very popular MMOs that have an emphasis on PvP didn't even have the full PvP mechanics in the game until like 6 months after launch.
While Vanguard will have PvP servers, they've made it quite clear that it is a PvE game. Which is just fine and dandy. You need Games for the PvE players too, don't you? You can't have PvP in the next Myst installment. You have to make sure that PvP even fits your game before you try to add it, and given the lore...well...it doesn't entirely fit in Vanguard just yet.
-- keep the lore
-- keep the large world
-- keep the lack of instancing
-- keep the graphics engine
-- keep the flying mounts
-- keep the boats
-- keep the crafting
-- keep the housing & town mechanics
-- keep the advanced encounter system
-- another alternative is to create alternate ruleset servers, where you have one server with hardcore rules (no maps, permadeath after 5 deaths, forced grouping, slower xp curve) and casual rules. (of course, that won't work, because hardcore players derive no utility from the entire game if a bunch of people on another server are enjoying themselves on casual rules, hardcore peeps derive sick pleasure from the discomfort of casuals)
that's all i am asking for.
Honestly....I know you don't like hearing things like this, and you may think it's a cop out...but, I mean seriously...
What even interests you in this game? You like the expansive world, you like the seamless world. In other threads you've said that you didn't like the seamless world/no instancing because of Spawn Camping... So I'm not entirely sure what to believe from you.
You like the idea of boats and player cities, no? You like the idea of owning boats, but (like in other threads you've posted) you don't like the idea of long travel? How do you suppose that the game developers keep people interested in sailing boats (which they love the idea of) if you're going to offer them quicker, faster, on-demand travel.....more pressing, I suppose, how would you, as a developer, justify writing all that code for sea travel (wind direction, physics, art, camera movement, controls, etc.) when only a minority of the players will use sea travel because its easier on your time if you just teleport?
You're making assumptions about the mapping system and the death penalties (which are still in flux), and you make assumptions about what the XP curve needs to be for this game, without realizing that the XP curve needs to be relative to the game you're playing. WoWs curve I felt was too short for the content available...I missed so many quests and didn't even go into some of the zones before I got my first lvl 60....where, a game like CoH I felt the curve was too long due to the fact that the missions were so repetative (may have changed by now)
i've already heard this drivel on the vanguard forums ad nauseum. i'm not going to argue with you point by point on it. that's not the point of this particular thread.
This just in - Jonaku posted something negative about vanguard, world responds by collectively failing to care.
One onlooker quoted as saying ..oh wait, strike that, there were no onlookers, a couple passerby's started to drift this way and mumbled something about "Oh that again". A chihuahua was quoted as leaking on a nearby firehydrant, story at 11
Originally posted by sewash This just in - Jonaku posted something negative about vanguard, world responds by collectively failing to care.
One onlooker quoted as saying ..oh wait, strike that, there were no onlookers, a couple passerby's started to drift this way and mumbled something about "Oh that again". A chihuahua was quoted as leaking on a nearby firehydrant, story at 11
i've already heard this drivel on the vanguard forums ad nauseum. i'm not going to argue with you point by point on it. that's not the point of this particular thread.
LoL...that's right, shy away from another real discussion and promote your flame war.
Originally posted by TheUnk There are gamers that want the EQ "hardcore" style of gameplay. There are gamers that want the WoW style of gameplay. Can 1 game accomodate both players? I think not. I also believe that a game that tries to will probably fail and in the end frustrate both types of gamers. For example, there are FPS games out there that require you to play stealthy, there are FPS games out there that require you to run out with guns blazing. Those games, while the same genre, will not always appeal to the same gamer. It would be hard to make an FPS game support both types of gameplay without crippling both of them to some degree, you end up with a hybrid and we all know hybrids suck
I know hybrids suck, but I wouldn't say we all know it. Unfotunately, too many people can't get it through thier heads, and thus games like Auto Assault continue to be made.
You can't please everyone, and to try just waters down the game so that it won't please anyone all that much. If there are any devs out there that seem to understand this, it's Sigil. As far as I'm concerned, the OP in this thread is clearly biased, and doesn't indicate anything worth worrying about. At least, not untill I read that Sigil is starting to give in to all the clueless whining.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
It has heaps of potential...which is why alot of us are anticipating it. Whether or not it delivers is yet to be seen, and it would be folly to believe it will fulfill all of our expectations.
The most damaging aspect of the game, thusfar, is that the developers are using some conceptually antiquated mechanics that have traditionally alienated casual gamers. Yet, while they advertise things like corpse runs, long travel, long XP curves, and the like, they have claimed that the game will have appeal to casual players.
And so, most of the debate over the game is really whether it will or will not support casual gameplay. If you aren't really casual and are one of the few left with the virtue of patience....this game is for you!
(Seriously though, looks good...hope they pull through)
Any game run by SOE will have poor customer service, broken patches (pushing them out before proper testing), poor player communication and runs the risk of being turned upside down if another game comes out that makes more money. Devs have no power over the decisions of the corp management. Read the PGgamer review in this months issue, the Vanguard devs are all forced to play WOW. Save your money and play the original (WOW).
The game had potential before SOE got it's hooks in. But on the plus side I'm sure the graphics will good very good.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Originally posted by Talonsin Originally posted by grape Question is:
Does this game have potential?
Any game run by SOE will have poor customer service, broken patches (pushing them out before proper testing), poor player communication and runs the risk of being turned upside down if another game comes out that makes more money. Devs have no power over the decisions of the corp management. Read the PGgamer review in this months issue, the Vanguard devs are all forced to play WOW. Save your money and play the original (WOW).
The game had potential before SOE got it's hooks in. But on the plus side I'm sure the graphics will good very good.
I don't know how many times this has to be said. SoE is handling Distribution, Technical Support (Patcher Problems, Scratched/Missing CD, Connectivity) and maintaining the server farm only.
All Customer Support, GMs, Patched Content, Expansions, Patch/Expansion Deadlines, Game Quality is handled exclusively (by contract) by Sigil Games.
Far from it for me to disallow you to have negative opinions about this game, but at least get your facts straight.
PS: It's a "preview" not a "review". Huge difference. You can't review a game that isn't out yet, and at most, "previews" are based on a demo movie, interviews, and maybe a small playable demo. Can't really expect accuracy out of a preview.
Comments
thanks for the insight
Anyone who thinks that WoW is the next step of EQ obviously hasn't played both games.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
thanks for the insight
but he's right. my post WAS better. u know. just as an fyi.
Oh Mystic Madame Jonaku... while you have the dust cover off your Crystal Ball...
Could you tell me next weeks Lottery numbers?
Thanks in advance!
Tam
There are gamers that want the EQ "hardcore" style of gameplay.
There are gamers that want the WoW style of gameplay.
Can 1 game accomodate both players? I think not. I also believe that a game that tries to will probably fail and in the end frustrate both types of gamers.
For example, there are FPS games out there that require you to play stealthy, there are FPS games out there that require you to run out with guns blazing. Those games, while the same genre, will not always appeal to the same gamer. It would be hard to make an FPS game support both types of gameplay without crippling both of them to some degree, you end up with a hybrid and we all know hybrids suck
like 99% of the vanbois at the vanguard forum, you have resorted to the tired old line "i think you would enjoy a game like WOW more."
oh, that reminds me, that's the other reason why i don't like vanguard: the community of vanbois is so repulsive in their elitist sadomasochistic zealous adoration of the vision(tm) that i find it sickening. any game that attracts such a horrid community of people is just bad, bad, bad and must be destroyed or overhauled at any cost.
and when the game launches to a disappointing 150 K subscribers, well below that targeted 500 k subscribers, i will el oh el as the fit hits the shan internally at vanguard when they will have to do an $0e nge revamp of the game.
u vanbois so mindlessly defend the game it's hilarious.
Well then, what is it Jonaku...what do YOU want out of Vanguard, or any MMO for that matter? What do YOU think it would take for Vanguard to be the mass appealing, groundbreaking MMO that you so require?
You don't want the overused "You might not like this game" line, but what do you want to hear? What other line is there to give? The type of game that you seem to be suggesting you would like isn't anything like the game that Sigil has suggested they are making.
I mean, something about this game must be holding your interest. There has to be something that keeps you coming back to these forums to try to proove to us that our hopes are misplaced. What is it then?
yeah i admit, yours was far better......i guess i have alot to learn in the art of trolling.
yeah i admit, yours was far better......i guess i have alot to learn in the art of trolling.
sweet, thanks for calling me a troll. i appreciate the personal attack. it only reinforces my assertion that the vanguard fanboi community squelches any dissent by any means.
Can you refresh my memory of the "dissents" of Vanguard? A list or just a paragraph or two of the major dislikes of the game would be nice. I for one can't really remember seeing them before. Thanks.
Can you refresh my memory of the "dissents" of Vanguard? A list or just a paragraph or two of the major dislikes of the game would be nice. I for one can't really remember seeing them before. Thanks.
-- delete the death penalty
-- delete the corpse run
-- add GPS dots to maps
-- add detailed maps
-- make the XP level curve easier so that you can reach max level in 2 months instead of 6 to 12 months (with so many races and classes, this allows the casual player to have fun and play for a long period of time developing multiple characters like they do in wow where many people have multiple lvl 60s)
-- delete diplomacy, it's st00pid
-- increase solo content to 50%, group content at 40%, raid content at 10%
-- increase max group size to 20 characters
-- ensure testing of pvp in beta 3, instead of making pvp a last priority that isn't tested until beta 5
-- keep the lore
-- keep the large world
-- keep the lack of instancing
-- keep the graphics engine
-- keep the flying mounts
-- keep the boats
-- keep the crafting
-- keep the housing & town mechanics
-- keep the advanced encounter system
-- another alternative is to create alternate ruleset servers, where you have one server with hardcore rules (no maps, permadeath after 5 deaths, forced grouping, slower xp curve) and casual rules. (of course, that won't work, because hardcore players derive no utility from the entire game if a bunch of people on another server are enjoying themselves on casual rules, hardcore peeps derive sick pleasure from the discomfort of casuals)
that's all i am asking for.
Can you refresh my memory of the "dissents" of Vanguard? A list or just a paragraph or two of the major dislikes of the game would be nice. I for one can't really remember seeing them before. Thanks.
-- delete the death penalty
Hopefully won't happen
-- delete the corpse run
Hey, man...Even WoW has a corpse run.
-- add GPS dots to maps
You have a trail to your corpse and a lil' marker indicating where you are already.
-- add detailed maps
There are Maps.
The Vanguard maps are some of the most geographically detailed I've seen in an MMO. The "Hardcore" players, or the ones that are pushing for a harder game have been demanding no maps, and Sigil has refused to take their maps out.
-- make the XP level curve easier so that you can reach max level in 2 months instead of 6 to 12 months (with so many races and classes, this allows the casual player to have fun and play for a long period of time developing multiple characters like they do in wow where many people have multiple lvl 60s)
The level curve really doesn't matter so long as there is plenty of content to consume with only an appropriate amount of repetition. Beings that none of us have played the game, we really don't know if the content will support a longer leveling curve....Sigi knows this...that's why the leveling curve really won't be set in stone until very late closed Beta or Open Beta.
-- delete diplomacy, it's st00pid
Diplomacy is sorta one of those things that, like crafting, if you don't like it, you don't have to play it. I, for one, am very very excited about Diplomacy.
Have you read all the new stuff about it? o.O This sounds like what I dreamed Elderscrolls was gonna be like.
Got the info coppied onto my guild's forums: http://bladesofire.nexgencommunity.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7
-- increase solo content to 50%, group content at 40%, raid content at 10%
Not sure if you knew this, but like only 15% or so of players solo exclusively... and solo players get through content alot slower than groupers. I'm almost certain that the 20% Solo, 60% Group, 20% Raid will fit the demographics of the MMO community almost perfectly.
-- increase max group size to 20 characters
What would this accomplish? Raid groups are only 25 people in Vangaurd right now....and besides, I thought you disliked raiding.
-- ensure testing of pvp in beta 3, instead of making pvp a last priority that isn't tested until beta 5
Well...you can't really have balanced PvP if you don't have all of the classes in yet, now can you. Be realistic. Some very very popular MMOs that have an emphasis on PvP didn't even have the full PvP mechanics in the game until like 6 months after launch.
While Vanguard will have PvP servers, they've made it quite clear that it is a PvE game. Which is just fine and dandy. You need Games for the PvE players too, don't you? You can't have PvP in the next Myst installment. You have to make sure that PvP even fits your game before you try to add it, and given the lore...well...it doesn't entirely fit in Vanguard just yet.
-- keep the lore
-- keep the large world
-- keep the lack of instancing
-- keep the graphics engine
-- keep the flying mounts
-- keep the boats
-- keep the crafting
-- keep the housing & town mechanics
-- keep the advanced encounter system
-- another alternative is to create alternate ruleset servers, where you have one server with hardcore rules (no maps, permadeath after 5 deaths, forced grouping, slower xp curve) and casual rules. (of course, that won't work, because hardcore players derive no utility from the entire game if a bunch of people on another server are enjoying themselves on casual rules, hardcore peeps derive sick pleasure from the discomfort of casuals)
that's all i am asking for.
Honestly....I know you don't like hearing things like this, and you may think it's a cop out...but, I mean seriously...
What even interests you in this game? You like the expansive world, you like the seamless world. In other threads you've said that you didn't like the seamless world/no instancing because of Spawn Camping... So I'm not entirely sure what to believe from you.
You like the idea of boats and player cities, no? You like the idea of owning boats, but (like in other threads you've posted) you don't like the idea of long travel? How do you suppose that the game developers keep people interested in sailing boats (which they love the idea of) if you're going to offer them quicker, faster, on-demand travel.....more pressing, I suppose, how would you, as a developer, justify writing all that code for sea travel (wind direction, physics, art, camera movement, controls, etc.) when only a minority of the players will use sea travel because its easier on your time if you just teleport?
You're making assumptions about the mapping system and the death penalties (which are still in flux), and you make assumptions about what the XP curve needs to be for this game, without realizing that the XP curve needs to be relative to the game you're playing. WoWs curve I felt was too short for the content available...I missed so many quests and didn't even go into some of the zones before I got my first lvl 60....where, a game like CoH I felt the curve was too long due to the fact that the missions were so repetative (may have changed by now)
lol are you kidding me? so you think me calling you a troll is anywhere near as bad as you calling out every vanguard fan calling them "vanboi" or just insulting them in general saying how terrible they are or how they are ruining vanguard?
i cannot have a discussion with you any further, it is quite clear you are just wanting a flame war....i mean i really cant believe you are accusing me of "attacking you" when that is literally all you do in every single post you make.
like i said yesterday, I'm done feeding you attention...that is all.
lol are you kidding me? so you think me calling you a troll is anywhere near as bad as you calling out every vanguard fan calling them "vanboi" or just insulting them in general saying how terrible they are or how they are ruining vanguard?
i cannot have a discussion with you any further, it is quite clear you are just wanting a flame war....i mean i really cant believe you are accusing me of "attacking you" when that is literally all you do in every single post you make.
like i said yesterday, I'm done feeding you attention...that is all.
your replies are so illogical and divorced from reality that i'm not sure if you're a troll or not. either way, i'm glad to see you're no longer interested in this discussion. it got tiresome very quickly. have a vanguardsy day !
the feeling is mutual...have fun bashing the game and community you love to hate.
Can you refresh my memory of the "dissents" of Vanguard? A list or just a paragraph or two of the major dislikes of the game would be nice. I for one can't really remember seeing them before. Thanks.
-- delete the death penalty
Hopefully won't happen
-- delete the corpse run
Hey, man...Even WoW has a corpse run.
-- add GPS dots to maps
You have a trail to your corpse and a lil' marker indicating where you are already.
-- add detailed maps
There are Maps.
The Vanguard maps are some of the most geographically detailed I've seen in an MMO. The "Hardcore" players, or the ones that are pushing for a harder game have been demanding no maps, and Sigil has refused to take their maps out.
-- make the XP level curve easier so that you can reach max level in 2 months instead of 6 to 12 months (with so many races and classes, this allows the casual player to have fun and play for a long period of time developing multiple characters like they do in wow where many people have multiple lvl 60s)
The level curve really doesn't matter so long as there is plenty of content to consume with only an appropriate amount of repetition. Beings that none of us have played the game, we really don't know if the content will support a longer leveling curve....Sigi knows this...that's why the leveling curve really won't be set in stone until very late closed Beta or Open Beta.
-- delete diplomacy, it's st00pid
Diplomacy is sorta one of those things that, like crafting, if you don't like it, you don't have to play it. I, for one, am very very excited about Diplomacy.
Have you read all the new stuff about it? o.O This sounds like what I dreamed Elderscrolls was gonna be like.
Got the info coppied onto my guild's forums: http://bladesofire.nexgencommunity.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7
-- increase solo content to 50%, group content at 40%, raid content at 10%
Not sure if you knew this, but like only 15% or so of players solo exclusively... and solo players get through content alot slower than groupers. I'm almost certain that the 20% Solo, 60% Group, 20% Raid will fit the demographics of the MMO community almost perfectly.
-- increase max group size to 20 characters
What would this accomplish? Raid groups are only 25 people in Vangaurd right now....and besides, I thought you disliked raiding.
-- ensure testing of pvp in beta 3, instead of making pvp a last priority that isn't tested until beta 5
Well...you can't really have balanced PvP if you don't have all of the classes in yet, now can you. Be realistic. Some very very popular MMOs that have an emphasis on PvP didn't even have the full PvP mechanics in the game until like 6 months after launch.
While Vanguard will have PvP servers, they've made it quite clear that it is a PvE game. Which is just fine and dandy. You need Games for the PvE players too, don't you? You can't have PvP in the next Myst installment. You have to make sure that PvP even fits your game before you try to add it, and given the lore...well...it doesn't entirely fit in Vanguard just yet.
-- keep the lore
-- keep the large world
-- keep the lack of instancing
-- keep the graphics engine
-- keep the flying mounts
-- keep the boats
-- keep the crafting
-- keep the housing & town mechanics
-- keep the advanced encounter system
-- another alternative is to create alternate ruleset servers, where you have one server with hardcore rules (no maps, permadeath after 5 deaths, forced grouping, slower xp curve) and casual rules. (of course, that won't work, because hardcore players derive no utility from the entire game if a bunch of people on another server are enjoying themselves on casual rules, hardcore peeps derive sick pleasure from the discomfort of casuals)
that's all i am asking for.
Honestly....I know you don't like hearing things like this, and you may think it's a cop out...but, I mean seriously...
What even interests you in this game? You like the expansive world, you like the seamless world. In other threads you've said that you didn't like the seamless world/no instancing because of Spawn Camping... So I'm not entirely sure what to believe from you.
You like the idea of boats and player cities, no? You like the idea of owning boats, but (like in other threads you've posted) you don't like the idea of long travel? How do you suppose that the game developers keep people interested in sailing boats (which they love the idea of) if you're going to offer them quicker, faster, on-demand travel.....more pressing, I suppose, how would you, as a developer, justify writing all that code for sea travel (wind direction, physics, art, camera movement, controls, etc.) when only a minority of the players will use sea travel because its easier on your time if you just teleport?
You're making assumptions about the mapping system and the death penalties (which are still in flux), and you make assumptions about what the XP curve needs to be for this game, without realizing that the XP curve needs to be relative to the game you're playing. WoWs curve I felt was too short for the content available...I missed so many quests and didn't even go into some of the zones before I got my first lvl 60....where, a game like CoH I felt the curve was too long due to the fact that the missions were so repetative (may have changed by now)
i've already heard this drivel on the vanguard forums ad nauseum. i'm not going to argue with you point by point on it. that's not the point of this particular thread.
Can you refresh my memory of the "dissents" of Vanguard? A list or just a paragraph or two of the major dislikes of the game would be nice. I for one can't really remember seeing them before. Thanks.
-- delete the death penalty
Hopefully won't happen
-- delete the corpse run
Hey, man...Even WoW has a corpse run.
-- add GPS dots to maps
You have a trail to your corpse and a lil' marker indicating where you are already.
-- add detailed maps
There are Maps.
The Vanguard maps are some of the most geographically detailed I've seen in an MMO. The "Hardcore" players, or the ones that are pushing for a harder game have been demanding no maps, and Sigil has refused to take their maps out.
-- make the XP level curve easier so that you can reach max level in 2 months instead of 6 to 12 months (with so many races and classes, this allows the casual player to have fun and play for a long period of time developing multiple characters like they do in wow where many people have multiple lvl 60s)
The level curve really doesn't matter so long as there is plenty of content to consume with only an appropriate amount of repetition. Beings that none of us have played the game, we really don't know if the content will support a longer leveling curve....Sigi knows this...that's why the leveling curve really won't be set in stone until very late closed Beta or Open Beta.
-- delete diplomacy, it's st00pid
Diplomacy is sorta one of those things that, like crafting, if you don't like it, you don't have to play it. I, for one, am very very excited about Diplomacy.
Have you read all the new stuff about it? o.O This sounds like what I dreamed Elderscrolls was gonna be like.
Got the info coppied onto my guild's forums: http://bladesofire.nexgencommunity.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7
-- increase solo content to 50%, group content at 40%, raid content at 10%
Not sure if you knew this, but like only 15% or so of players solo exclusively... and solo players get through content alot slower than groupers. I'm almost certain that the 20% Solo, 60% Group, 20% Raid will fit the demographics of the MMO community almost perfectly.
-- increase max group size to 20 characters
What would this accomplish? Raid groups are only 25 people in Vangaurd right now....and besides, I thought you disliked raiding.
-- ensure testing of pvp in beta 3, instead of making pvp a last priority that isn't tested until beta 5
Well...you can't really have balanced PvP if you don't have all of the classes in yet, now can you. Be realistic. Some very very popular MMOs that have an emphasis on PvP didn't even have the full PvP mechanics in the game until like 6 months after launch.
While Vanguard will have PvP servers, they've made it quite clear that it is a PvE game. Which is just fine and dandy. You need Games for the PvE players too, don't you? You can't have PvP in the next Myst installment. You have to make sure that PvP even fits your game before you try to add it, and given the lore...well...it doesn't entirely fit in Vanguard just yet.
-- keep the lore
-- keep the large world
-- keep the lack of instancing
-- keep the graphics engine
-- keep the flying mounts
-- keep the boats
-- keep the crafting
-- keep the housing & town mechanics
-- keep the advanced encounter system
-- another alternative is to create alternate ruleset servers, where you have one server with hardcore rules (no maps, permadeath after 5 deaths, forced grouping, slower xp curve) and casual rules. (of course, that won't work, because hardcore players derive no utility from the entire game if a bunch of people on another server are enjoying themselves on casual rules, hardcore peeps derive sick pleasure from the discomfort of casuals)
that's all i am asking for.
Honestly....I know you don't like hearing things like this, and you may think it's a cop out...but, I mean seriously...
What even interests you in this game? You like the expansive world, you like the seamless world. In other threads you've said that you didn't like the seamless world/no instancing because of Spawn Camping... So I'm not entirely sure what to believe from you.
You like the idea of boats and player cities, no? You like the idea of owning boats, but (like in other threads you've posted) you don't like the idea of long travel? How do you suppose that the game developers keep people interested in sailing boats (which they love the idea of) if you're going to offer them quicker, faster, on-demand travel.....more pressing, I suppose, how would you, as a developer, justify writing all that code for sea travel (wind direction, physics, art, camera movement, controls, etc.) when only a minority of the players will use sea travel because its easier on your time if you just teleport?
You're making assumptions about the mapping system and the death penalties (which are still in flux), and you make assumptions about what the XP curve needs to be for this game, without realizing that the XP curve needs to be relative to the game you're playing. WoWs curve I felt was too short for the content available...I missed so many quests and didn't even go into some of the zones before I got my first lvl 60....where, a game like CoH I felt the curve was too long due to the fact that the missions were so repetative (may have changed by now)
i've already heard this drivel on the vanguard forums ad nauseum. i'm not going to argue with you point by point on it. that's not the point of this particular thread.
---------------------------------------------
Don't click here...no2
One onlooker quoted as saying ..oh wait, strike that, there were no onlookers, a couple passerby's started to drift this way and mumbled something about "Oh that again". A chihuahua was quoted as leaking on a nearby firehydrant, story at 11
LoL...that's right, shy away from another real discussion and promote your flame war.
I know hybrids suck, but I wouldn't say we all know it. Unfotunately, too many people can't get it through thier heads, and thus games like Auto Assault continue to be made.
You can't please everyone, and to try just waters down the game so that it won't please anyone all that much. If there are any devs out there that seem to understand this, it's Sigil. As far as I'm concerned, the OP in this thread is clearly biased, and doesn't indicate anything worth worrying about. At least, not untill I read that Sigil is starting to give in to all the clueless whining.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Does this game have potential?
It has heaps of potential...which is why alot of us are anticipating it. Whether or not it delivers is yet to be seen, and it would be folly to believe it will fulfill all of our expectations.
The most damaging aspect of the game, thusfar, is that the developers are using some conceptually antiquated mechanics that have traditionally alienated casual gamers. Yet, while they advertise things like corpse runs, long travel, long XP curves, and the like, they have claimed that the game will have appeal to casual players.
And so, most of the debate over the game is really whether it will or will not support casual gameplay. If you aren't really casual and are one of the few left with the virtue of patience....this game is for you!
(Seriously though, looks good...hope they pull through)
Any game run by SOE will have poor customer service, broken patches (pushing them out before proper testing), poor player communication and runs the risk of being turned upside down if another game comes out that makes more money. Devs have no power over the decisions of the corp management. Read the PGgamer review in this months issue, the Vanguard devs are all forced to play WOW. Save your money and play the original (WOW).
The game had potential before SOE got it's hooks in. But on the plus side I'm sure the graphics will good very good.
Any game run by SOE will have poor customer service, broken patches (pushing them out before proper testing), poor player communication and runs the risk of being turned upside down if another game comes out that makes more money. Devs have no power over the decisions of the corp management. Read the PGgamer review in this months issue, the Vanguard devs are all forced to play WOW. Save your money and play the original (WOW).
The game had potential before SOE got it's hooks in. But on the plus side I'm sure the graphics will good very good.
I don't know how many times this has to be said. SoE is handling Distribution, Technical Support (Patcher Problems, Scratched/Missing CD, Connectivity) and maintaining the server farm only.
All Customer Support, GMs, Patched Content, Expansions, Patch/Expansion Deadlines, Game Quality is handled exclusively (by contract) by Sigil Games.
Far from it for me to disallow you to have negative opinions about this game, but at least get your facts straight.
PS: It's a "preview" not a "review". Huge difference. You can't review a game that isn't out yet, and at most, "previews" are based on a demo movie, interviews, and maybe a small playable demo. Can't really expect accuracy out of a preview.