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New MMOGCHART.com Results - What do they suggest

reavoreavo Member Posts: 2,173
MMOGCHART.COM

I just looked at the latest MMOGCHART.com results...

It seems that the total population of all the MMO's combined has begun to drop since right before January of this year.  Even with the increase in subscriptions of World of Warcraft the total number of MMO subscribers for all the games combined is dropping.

I went and looked at other games and practically every other game has lost subscribers.  It's hard to find one that has gained any.

I'm going to try to use my analytical skills (as novice as they may be) and make an assumption.  It seems that what has happened is this.  People left other MMO's to go play WoW.  People from other MMO's played WoW for a while, and then quit.  People from other MMO's haven't really gone back to other MMO's.  And not only that, but the numbers of people that were new to the MMO market playing WoW don't seem to be moving over to other MMO's after quitting WoW as veteran MMO players (such as myself) had hoped.

This brings up some possibilities to me...
  1. WoW is not your typical MMO.  It's a "gamers" MMO.  Why else would people who started WoW as their first MMORPG be quitting it and then not moving over to other MMO's enough to keep the total MMO population for all games increasing or level?  I never felt like I was playing an MMO when I played WoW anyway.  Sure it was an online game with other players in it, so I guess it literally fit the criteria, but the spirit wasn't there.  Veteran MMO players know what I'm talking about.  It didn't have that community feel that MMO's before it have had.  That's what was so atypical about it.
  2. People who left other MMO's to play WoW are now leaving WoW and not liking what is out there.  So they're just choosing not to play anything.  In other words, everyone is trying to be the new WoW and veteran MMO players aren't looking for another WoW.  So they're saying everything new stinks and waiting for something else.  Hmmm...  I wonder what that is?
  3. People are just bored.  From all sides of the gaming world everyone is bored with the MMO genre.  I get this feeling sometimes.  If it weren't for my homebody nature and my hatred for television, I would probably have given up MMO's a long time ago actually.  The whole time I'm playing I'm thinking to myself, "new game, but been there, done that, done that too, seen that already, oh yawn."
I'm just curious what you guys think.   I also noticed that the quick rise of subscription numbers for WoW is tapering off.  It will eventually someday level off and then fall.  They'll try to revive it with expansions and updates just like the other games do, but even those will not breathe new life into it after a while.  What is going to happen to our genre then?  Or does WoW even matter to us anymore?  Sometimes I think it was just an anomaly that created an insanity that sped up the demise of all the MMO companies.  Are there really any of them out there doing anything different anymore? 

Tell me your thoughts.  I think it's an interesting thing to think about.  At least from a behavioral aspect.


«13

Comments

  • ChessackChessack Member Posts: 978
    Some interesting patterns there. The most surprising thing to me was
    that EQ has dropped like a stone in the last little while. From 500k,
    it has dropped to about 200k. And very quickly (in a few dots, i.e.
    quarters). I'm curious what caused the huge drop. I'm not sure "It's an
    old game" cuts it, since the 500k peak also happened when EQ was
    arguably quite an old game already, and EQ2 was coming out etc. Yet EQ1
    still had tons of subscribers.


    200k of course is nothing to sneeze at as these things go, but it's a
    darn sight below 500k, and I was surprised. I sort of thought EQ was
    going to stick at the 500k mark for many years. The people still
    playing it seem to love it.


    I was also surprised, conversely, at the relative resiliance of UO,
    given that it is even older than EQ. It has seen some decline but
    nowhere near what I would have thought.


    And AO and AC are both hurting it looks like. Ouch.


    C

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818
    When was the last time a good mmo came out ? People can only revisit old mmos for so long. I think once AOC, VG and warhammer are out people who are taking a break from mmos will return.

    Or.... that site is total BS and the populations aren't going down at all :P


  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182

    WoW IS your typical MMO, its just a lot faster. its just as much an MMORPG as Everquest is.
    I think the reason all MMO's are dropping is because its time for the next generation of MMORPG's.

    If your a fan of Everquest, then your probably playing WoW right now. after your bored of WoW, what other game is there to play? its all the same

    if your a fan of korean grinders, then your probably playing Lineage 2 right now. after your bored of Lineage 2, what other game is there to play? its all the same

    After your bored of EVE, what other game is there to play?

    and the next generation still isn't on the horizon.

    because what are the upcomming games? Vanguard, lord of the rings online. More and more everquest clones.

    I think people are getting tired of the mmorpg genre. its all the same.

    the only games that will have features that can be called Next Generation are Aion and AOC. and Aion isn't comming till late 2007.

    even after so many years, the rule: "If you played one, you played them all" still exists.



  • herculeshercules Member UncommonPosts: 4,920

    Well though i think sirbruce does a wonderful job i think he been sort of "out of the game" quite a while and some of his data is kind of stagnant.

    Sadly mmorpg are very secretive about their numbers and was hoping some companies would react to the chart by posting "hang on no we actually got X more players" but sadly this is not the case.

  • HotcellHotcell Member UncommonPosts: 279

    I really like your #2 and #3 point.

    It applies perfectly to me.

    I'm a veteran of MMO even before WoW. Usually, no matter how bad the game is, I can get myself to play hours. Then WoW came. I absolutely love it... it has some downfall but overall, it's a great game.

    I love the quest, I love the jokes, I love the pace, the UI, almost eveyrthing

    In the end, I got bored of WoW because of the end game content. I quit 1.5 years ago. Since then, no MMO has ever got me addicted like that. It's just as if everything is bad compared to WoW. I may not be judging them fairly since I've only played them for 1-2 days.. but bottom line: I'm just bored with other mmo.

    I'm waiting for Roma Victor to change all that!

  • TuutobTuutob Member Posts: 607
    Okay, I'm going off Jim Gaffigan a bit here, but its all for a good point

    MMO's are like Mexican Food.
    Taco- Beans, meat, cheese, produce in a flour shell
    Enchilada- Beans, meat, cheese, produce in a flour shell
    Burrito- Beans, meat, cheese, produce in a flour shell
    Nachos- Flour tortillas topped with beans meat cheese and produce

    Its mostly the same. But, I have met people who like one sort of Mexican food and not another, even though they are mostly the same.

    Its all one's preference. Its kind of stupid to name one the 'best', because in the end it is always one's opinion.


  • SirBruceSirBruce Member Posts: 95

    I don't think all that many people are quitting WoW yet.  The average customer life is over 14 months now.  And a lot of people who have quit are expected to come back to WoW when the expansion finally comes out.

    Bruce

    Analyst, Consultant, Writer
    http://www.mmogchart.com

  • Amnesiac07Amnesiac07 Member Posts: 103

    Good points made here.  I think #1 and #2 are most responsible for the fall from the peak mmo subscriber level, though #3 carries some weight too I'm sure.

  • porgieporgie Member Posts: 1,516
    I think the entire MMO population is dropping because we're all burned out from the WoW effect.  Quick gaming like that and you're bound to burn out after a while.  The developer's can't make content fast enough for the players to burn through.  Eventually something has to give.  And it's usually the quality of content first, then the players fall off with a bad taste in their mouth from the end experience.

    There will be a rise in the overall population when WoW puts out their expansion, but that's not going to help the rest of the MMO's.  The whole genre can't survive on one game.

    I did sort of wish that some of the better people who never played MMO's and were introduced to them with WoW would help out by moving to the other games.  But apparently, looking at the overall MMO population, they're not. 


    -----------------------
    </OBAMA>

  • porgieporgie Member Posts: 1,516


    Originally posted by Chessack
    Some interesting patterns there. The most surprising thing to me was
    that EQ has dropped like a stone in the last little while. From 500k,
    it has dropped to about 200k. And very quickly (in a few dots, i.e.
    quarters). I'm curious what caused the huge drop. I'm not sure "It's an
    old game" cuts it, since the 500k peak also happened when EQ was
    arguably quite an old game already, and EQ2 was coming out etc. Yet EQ1
    still had tons of subscribers.


    200k of course is nothing to sneeze at as these things go, but it's a
    darn sight below 500k, and I was surprised. I sort of thought EQ was
    going to stick at the 500k mark for many years. The people still
    playing it seem to love it.


    I was also surprised, conversely, at the relative resiliance of UO,
    given that it is even older than EQ. It has seen some decline but
    nowhere near what I would have thought.


    And AO and AC are both hurting it looks like. Ouch.


    C



    That does suck.  I hate to see game worlds go down. 

    I wonder if people are just getting bored with online gaming.  It was a novel thing for a while, but I guess now that everyone has experienced it and there aren't any new ideas, everyone has just moved on. 

    -----------------------
    </OBAMA>

  • sempiternalsempiternal Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    You can't draw any accurate conclusions from that short decline, look at the overall graph, there are many declines along the total active subscriptions chart, but, over time, the overall growth has been surprisingly consistent.  If a year from now it is still leveling off, then you have a case.

    I doubt that will happen though, the future of entertainment is in virtual worlds.

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905


    Originally posted by reavo
    MMOGCHART.COM

    I just looked at the latest MMOGCHART.com results...

    It seems that the total population of all the MMO's combined has begun to drop since right before January of this year.  Even with the increase in subscriptions of World of Warcraft the total number of MMO subscribers for all the games combined is dropping.

    I went and looked at other games and practically every other game has lost subscribers.  It's hard to find one that has gained any.

    I'm going to try to use my analytical skills (as novice as they may be) and make an assumption.  It seems that what has happened is this.  People left other MMO's to go play WoW.  People from other MMO's played WoW for a while, and then quit.  People from other MMO's haven't really gone back to other MMO's.  And not only that, but the numbers of people that were new to the MMO market playing WoW don't seem to be moving over to other MMO's after quitting WoW as veteran MMO players (such as myself) had hoped.

    This brings up some possibilities to me...



    WoW is not your typical MMO.  It's a "gamers" MMO.  Why else would people who started WoW as their first MMORPG be quitting it and then not moving over to other MMO's enough to keep the total MMO population for all games increasing or level?  I never felt like I was playing an MMO when I played WoW anyway.  Sure it was an online game with other players in it, so I guess it literally fit the criteria, but the spirit wasn't there.  Veteran MMO players know what I'm talking about.  It didn't have that community feel that MMO's before it have had.  That's what was so atypical about it.

    People who left other MMO's to play WoW are now leaving WoW and not liking what is out there.  So they're just choosing not to play anything.  In other words, everyone is trying to be the new WoW and veteran MMO players aren't looking for another WoW.  So they're saying everything new stinks and waiting for something else.  Hmmm...  I wonder what that is?
    People are just bored.  From all sides of the gaming world everyone is bored with the MMO genre.  I get this feeling sometimes.  If it weren't for my homebody nature and my hatred for television, I would probably have given up MMO's a long time ago actually.  The whole time I'm playing I'm thinking to myself, "new game, but been there, done that, done that too, seen that already, oh yawn."I'm just curious what you guys think.   I also noticed that the quick rise of subscription numbers for WoW is tapering off.  It will eventually someday level off and then fall.  They'll try to revive it with expansions and updates just like the other games do, but even those will not breathe new life into it after a while.  What is going to happen to our genre then?  Or does WoW even matter to us anymore?  Sometimes I think it was just an anomaly that created an insanity that sped up the demise of all the MMO companies.  Are there really any of them out there doing anything different anymore? 

    Tell me your thoughts.  I think it's an interesting thing to think about.  At least from a behavioral aspect.


    Well here's mythoughts at 6am on the first cup of coffee.........

    Overall, I'm guessing the state of MMO's may actually be worst then some of these companies are reporting. (no fault of SirBruce)

    An interesting example is Auto Assaut. Although the game is getting pretty decent reviews...looks like its bombing. Maybe the reason why is this.

    Most of the core MMO players (pre-WoWifcation) where interested in games that where open and sandbox-like and creative. (look at the original SWG, before the butchering) Most of the newer games do not have this and are extreamly restricting and narrow in focus. These games are not appealing to the core MMOers.

    For the most part WoW players are not interested in MMO's that are not like WoW. WoW is only an MMO in the loosest definition. It actually has very few true 'RPG" elements. WoW is more or less a MMOarcade game. Its easy, its fast and its fun. The NPC's tell you what to do every step of the way and you really have no other options. WoW plays almost exactly like a console game. (complete with shooter style "maps")
    WoW players are not moving on, I would think, mainly because there has not been a quality release on par with WoW yet. (a release of a "wow style" game, is what I mean) The average WoW player is not the same as the average MMO player. 

    The old "core" MMOers are drifting away because of the narrow focus new MMO are taking and throwing off creativity and freedom for narrow scope focus on gameplay and speed. MMO's are actually de-evolving to arcade type games. Older games are well, old. We have been there done that.

    To make matters worse for the core MMOer, the few games rolling out that are sticking to the "older" forumla are nothing more then clones of exsisting games. Vanguard for example. The MMO market already, more or less has a "vanguard" style game minus a few feature. The damn game even looks the same as other MMO's Its not really bringing anything new to the genre. Another game with elves and dwarves and raid endgame content. The damn devs are even titleing it "everquest the way it should have been" or something like that. 

    On top of that, U.S. produced games really really have a problem with quality control. Almost every U.S. title to release has some sort of major meltdown at launch. D&DO is the best, most recent example. SWG, EQII, Horizons, Dark and Light, AC2... blah blah blah blah. The games were missing content, missing features, flat out don't work...you name it. Aside from WoW, the only games to really deliver what they say at launch have been Asian designed games. FFXI, L2 and just about anything published by NCSoft. why? because NCSoft doesn't rush the devs out the door with half finished games. (I'm also not referring to the glut of free games out there)

    All in all, MMO's still reletively new and many of these games are pioneer attempts. Because of their massive cost to make, this is really making it difficult for a "truely" new and inovative games to bloom. Most of these companies do not want to risk millions of dollars on something that might have no appeal or flop (Auto assault) Asian devs really have the resourse and ability to make a new next gen (NCSoft and Webzen) as they are drowning in subscribers and money,(have you guys ever seen a quartary report from these guys? HUGE profits)  but seem to also be sticking with what works.

    MMO's still haven't really penitrated into the U.S. market to the same extent as the Asian market.  Even WoW's subscriber base is predominately outside the U.S. (apprx 2 million OR LESS of the 6.5 million are Americans) This doesn't paint a very optimistic picture for a U.S. company looking to get into making MMO's. To compound that, American MMO players are rather picky on top of it.

    So anyway back to Auto Assault. Its to narrow of focus for the core MMOer and not WoW-like enough for the WoW players. Doesn't mean its a bad game, just not what anyone wants.

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,225

    I would be happy to here disagreements, but these are my thoughts.  I have been playing MMORPG's for about 8 years now starting with UO.  WoW became great under one principal "CASUAL".  People could log on and actually feel ike they did something in one hour till they got to level 60.  How many people come to boards and say, "Well I hit 60...WoW sucks now."  It is my belief that 70% of gamers that pay for multiple accounts, buy items, buy gold, create the bulk of guild, and basically make up the mass of games are casually full time working people.  When you create games that alienate these people the games die.  For some reason the current games think that they can win by making impossible 4 hour long quest end game content that they expect people to do over and over again.  This I believe is the current problem with games. 

    I will not play for another mindless grind game.  I want a game where the Casual player can affect the game if he is willing to put in the ability.  Time should not be a factor and frankly I think a lot of people with money feel this way.  Why else would the gold buying business be booming. 

    Games will continually lose players from my generation will they build a game where people with cash, fuill time jobs, and families can log in and feel like they do something. 

    Till then my generation of UO players will buy accounts for the new games and quickly quit when they find out there is not content for them in the games.

    Any thoughts?

  • kimmarkimmar Member Posts: 446


    Originally posted by Torak



    Well here's mythoughts at 6am on the first cup of coffee.........

    Overall, I'm guessing the state of MMO's may actually be worst then some of these companies are reporting. (no fault of SirBruce)

    An interesting example is Auto Assaut. Although the game is getting pretty decent reviews...looks like its bombing. Maybe the reason why is this.

    Most of the core MMO players (pre-WoWifcation) where interested in games that where open and sandbox-like and creative. (look at the original SWG, before the butchering) Most of the newer games do not have this and are extreamly restricting and narrow in focus. These games are not appealing to the core MMOers.

    For the most part WoW players are not interested in MMO's that are not like WoW. WoW is only an MMO in the loosest definition. It actually has very few true 'RPG" elements. WoW is more or less a MMOarcade game. Its easy, its fast and its fun. The NPC's tell you what to do every step of the way and you really have no other options. WoW plays almost exactly like a console game. (complete with shooter style "maps")
    WoW players are not moving on, I would think, mainly because there has not been a quality release on par with WoW yet. (a release of a "wow style" game, is what I mean) The average WoW player is not the same as the average MMO player. 

    The old "core" MMOers are drifting away because of the narrow focus new MMO are taking and throwing off creativity and freedom for narrow scope focus on gameplay and speed. MMO's are actually de-evolving to arcade type games. Older games are well, old. We have been there done that.

    To make matters worse for the core MMOer, the few games rolling out that are sticking to the "older" forumla are nothing more then clones of exsisting games. Vanguard for example. The MMO market already, more or less has a "vanguard" style game minus a few feature. The damn game even looks the same as other MMO's Its not really bringing anything new to the genre. Another game with elves and dwarves and raid endgame content. The damn devs are even titleing it "everquest the way it should have been" or something like that. 

    On top of that, U.S. produced games really really have a problem with quality control. Almost every U.S. title to release has some sort of major meltdown at launch. D&DO is the best, most recent example. SWG, EQII, Horizons, Dark and Light, AC2... blah blah blah blah. The games were missing content, missing features, flat out don't work...you name it. Aside from WoW, the only games to really deliver what they say at launch have been Asian designed games. FFXI, L2 and just about anything published by NCSoft. why? because NCSoft doesn't rush the devs out the door with half finished games. (I'm also not referring to the glut of free games out there)

    All in all, MMO's still reletively new and many of these games are pioneer attempts. Because of their massive cost to make, this is really making it difficult for a "truely" new and inovative games to bloom. Most of these companies do not want to risk millions of dollars on something that might have no appeal or flop (Auto assault) Asian devs really have the resourse and ability to make a new next gen (NCSoft and Webzen) as they are drowning in subscribers and money,(have you guys ever seen a quartary report from these guys? HUGE profits)  but seem to also be sticking with what works.

    MMO's still haven't really penitrated into the U.S. market to the same extent as the Asian market.  Even WoW's subscriber base is predominately outside the U.S. (apprx 2 million OR LESS of the 6.5 million are Americans) This doesn't paint a very optimistic picture for a U.S. company looking to get into making MMO's. To compound that, American MMO players are rather picky on top of it.

    So anyway back to Auto Assault. Its to narrow of focus for the core MMOer and not WoW-like enough for the WoW players. Doesn't mean its a bad game, just not what anyone wants.


    I agree with you.

    WoW was my first MMO.  I played it with some girls from work.  We had some fun.  But I can see where the veteran MMO players have complaints about it and don't see it as really fitting in their genre.  It does have more of a console feel to it.

    I don't have much experience with any other MMO's.  But I started playing DAoC after WoW and had some fun with it.  My friends at work started playing it with me.  We've quit in the meantime, but may go back.  I don't know though.  The game was good, but it was empty.  Void of people.  And if the game populations for all the games are dropping like the charts show, then people like me who started out with WoW and who do decide to try out another game are going to walk into empty worlds as well.  That was what me and my girlfriends noticed the most. 

    I wish I could have seen the classic MMO's when they were alive and kicking.  I bet that was a good time.  I wonder if that time will ever come again so I can experience that community.  I thought all the MMO communities were like the one in WoW at first until I played DAoC.  Thank goodness they're not.  But now the other communities are emptying out.  

    =============================
    It all seems so stupid
    It makes me want to give up
    But why should I give up
    When it all seems so stupid

  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201

    I don't agree with your read of the trend analysis.

    In the period of Jun 05 to Jun 06:
    Lineage 1 and 2 both lost approximately .5 million subscribers.
    Final Fantasy is down about 150K
    EQ1 is down about 250K
    EQ2 is down about 150K
    Numerous games lost about 50K subscribers.

    WoW subscribership is up a whopping 6 million subscribers.
    Runescape is up about .4 million
    EVE Online, Dofus, other games up about 50K subscribers.

    --

    If you take all the losses combined, you still won't make up for the gains (at least in the statistics quoted in his reports) in WoW subscribership.

    What does the trend show us? It shows that a lot of people are playing WoW. It's showing that gamers are embracing games other than the big guns out there.

    What it is clearly not showing is a decline in overall subscribers to the genre. No, clearly the total numbers are up. Do the math, you cannot fail to notice this. WoW, all by itself, absorbs the losses of every other game and still has a net gain of subscribers. If you factor in other games that showed gains (Runescape, EVE, Tibia, Dofus, DDO, etc...) then you clearly have a continued migration into the genre.

    You cannot even begin to suggest that people are getting tired of WoW and leaving it for other games when the data you see shows no decline at any data point in WoW subscribership.

    In fact, please review his chart, conveniently titled "Total MMOG Active Subscriptions" and note that the trend line (the actual line) continues upward. You will note in Jan 04 that there was a peak and decline, followed by a steep increase. This is called Christmas...and statistical analysis always incudes peaks and valleys.

    If you're going to dally in analytics, be careful. Your assumptions are, in my opinion, grossy incorrect.

  • CymdaiCymdai Member UncommonPosts: 1,041
    The only statistic I really don't believe is SWG...

    Vets, new players, even myself...I can't imagine there being more than 40,000 subscribers on that game

    Log on, there's 10-30 people in the most popular towns. At peak times, MAYBE 100.

    Still, if you're trying to tell me they've only lost 50k subscribers in 4 years...I'm calling shenanigans. I was on that game at release, and towns had hundreds of players running through them. It's not even close to that now.


    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • SirBruceSirBruce Member Posts: 95


    Originally posted by Cymdai
    The only statistic I really don't believe is SWG...

    Vets, new players, even myself...I can't imagine there being more than 40,000 subscribers on that game

    Log on, there's 10-30 people in the most popular towns. At peak times, MAYBE 100.

    Still, if you're trying to tell me they've only lost 50k subscribers in 4 years...I'm calling shenanigans. I was on that game at release, and towns had hundreds of players running through them. It's not even close to that now.



    I'm not sure what you mean here, since SWG hasn't even been out 4 years.  The data suggests SWG has gone from 300K to 170K in the past 2 years.  I note in the analysis that the subscriber number may be as low as 110,000 according to one source, but I find it difficult to believe that SWG went from 245K subscribers to 110K subscribers in less than 12 months.

    Bruce

    Analyst, Consultant, Writer
    http://www.mmogchart.com

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905


    Originally posted by kimmar
    I agree with you.

    WoW was my first MMO.  I played it with some girls from work.  We had some fun.  But I can see where the veteran MMO players have complaints about it and don't see it as really fitting in their genre.  It does have more of a console feel to it.

    I don't have much experience with any other MMO's.  But I started playing DAoC after WoW and had some fun with it.  My friends at work started playing it with me.  We've quit in the meantime, but may go back.  I don't know though.  The game was good, but it was empty.  Void of people.  And if the game populations for all the games are dropping like the charts show, then people like me who started out with WoW and who do decide to try out another game are going to walk into empty worlds as well.  That was what me and my girlfriends noticed the most. 

    I wish I could have seen the classic MMO's when they were alive and kicking.  I bet that was a good time.  I wonder if that time will ever come again so I can experience that community.  I thought all the MMO communities were like the one in WoW at first until I played DAoC.  Thank goodness they're not.  But now the other communities are emptying out.  

    "If we could turn back time"

    I played DAoC back when the pops where huge. It was glorious. It also had one of the toughest grinds of the time (not anymore from what I hear)

    I started MMO's back in AC when there where over 100k people playing. Servers where packed and you couldn't go into a town without a portal storm throwing you out.

    But those days are gone and they ain't coming back.

    These are the days of Kill Task and playing the role of the NPC deployed drone. Creativity and freedom of action need not apply.

    While a lot of people still beat the drum "well there are over 6 million players so WoW is great" that is sort of missing the point I was making. (on top of it missing again that MMO's, to include WoW, still are not really penetrating as deep into the U.S. market as the Asian. Which puts into question the continued viability of U.S. companies trying much longer) How many more tries do you think companies like Turbine and Sony are gonna make at MMO's? They have already thrown millions out the door on marginal titles like EQII and SWG and in case of Turbine, hasn't really had any luck at MMO's yet with AC2 actually shutting down and the poor release of D&DO. (and maintain the dead title AC)

    The WoW players are not the core MMO players. WoW generally speaking doesn't offer what core MMO players are looking for.

    That doesn't mean WoW is a bad  game. Its an excellent game. Hell, I enjoyed it. Like I said, its fast, easy and fun. But it doesn't have many of the things that I would like to see in an MMO. Freedom for one thing. Deversity of gameplay for another. All in all its a pretty limited MMORPG.  

  • BigfootBigfoot Member Posts: 364
    I definately fall under 2 and 3.  WoW is an easy game, which is probably why so many people play it because I think anyone can.  Some of my friends play WoW and I thought I'd never see them play any type of RPG.

    I too am waiting for that next awesome MMORPG...if it exists.


    image

    Looking for something new.

  • RabidaskalRabidaskal Member Posts: 238
    I fall under #2 myself.  Before WOW, I'd put up with alot of crap from games; bugs, power-leveling exploits, wildly flailing nerf bats, etc etc.  After WOW, I look back and I can't believe how I let myself be anal-abused for so long   I don't play WOW anymore, but I'm so done with half-baked crap games.  Playing BF2 and Oblivion until something worthy comes along.

    I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
    -BarCrow

  • TeeBeeNZTeeBeeNZ Member Posts: 259
    The only thing MMOGCharts suggest is you're stupid enough to read them.  The results they have are inaccurate, incomplete and frankly way off. I would have thought the website design would have hinted at its quality let alone to large chunk of missing data.

  • SirBruceSirBruce Member Posts: 95


    Originally posted by TeeBeeNZ
    The only thing MMOGCharts suggest is you're stupid enough to read them.  The results they have are inaccurate, incomplete and frankly way off. I would have thought the website design would have hinted at its quality let alone to large chunk of missing data.


    Wow, since you know they are way off, you must know the real numbers.  So, do tell us, what's the REAL data?  What's that?  You don't know what you're talking about?  That's what I thought.

    Bruce

    Analyst, Consultant, Writer
    http://www.mmogchart.com

  • sempiternalsempiternal Member UncommonPosts: 1,082


    Originally posted by TeeBeeNZ
    The only thing MMOGCharts suggest is you're stupid enough to read them.  The results they have are inaccurate, incomplete and frankly way off. I would have thought the website design would have hinted at its quality let alone to large chunk of missing data.

    Geez, so many 's on this forum; only a couple of notches above Stratics and that is because of the game rankings and reviews.
  • VhalnVhaln Member Posts: 3,159


    Originally posted by Torak
    Most of the core MMO players (pre-WoWifcation) where interested in games that where open and sandbox-like and creative. (look at the original SWG, before the butchering) Most of the newer games do not have this and are extreamly restricting and narrow in focus. These games are not appealing to the core MMOers.

    I'm not sure about "most players" but it's one big reason I'm in the #3 catagory.  To me, the sandbox ideal is what MMOs are all about.  The big wide world for our characters to live in, not just run through to the end.  To me, those two goals, living in the gameworld vs beating it, are mutually exclusive, but most devs go for the latter, because it's more familiar to the single-player gamer.




    To make matters worse for the core MMOer, the few games rolling out that are sticking to the "older" forumla are nothing more then clones of exsisting games. Vanguard for example. The MMO market already, more or less has a "vanguard" style game minus a few feature. The damn game even looks the same as other MMO's Its not really bringing anything new to the genre. Another game with elves and dwarves and raid endgame content. The damn devs are even titleing it "everquest the way it should have been" or something like that. 

    In defense of Vanguard, they seem to be both going out on a limb, by sticking to thier guns as to what makes a great MMO, despite market trends, yet at the same time, falling back on the old familiar fantasy formula w/ levelling, loot, special loot, and uber loot.  I think they're saying it has yet to really be done right in an graphical MMO, and I have to agree, they're probably right. 

    It may not be the sandbox I'm looking for, but I can understand them wanting to go back to original Everquest formula to perfect it, exploiting the latest technology.  The formula as it was, before the market clones took it in all sorts of moronic directions.




    So anyway back to Auto Assault. Its to narrow of focus for the core MMOer and not WoW-like enough for the WoW players. Doesn't mean its a bad game, just not what anyone wants.

    Sorry, but IMHO, no, the fundamental problem with AA is that it's a really bad game.  They had the opposite problem a lot of MMOs have.  They had plenty of financial backing, and no worthwhile ideas.  The basic premise was great, but they had no clue as far as building on it.  They ended up with a result that manages to be both monotonously linear, totally pointless, and even devoid of what generally makes games of vehicular mayhem fun.

    Tons of people gave it a shot.  Only to realize it's a horrible game.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • PantasticPantastic Member Posts: 1,204

    It could also be the fact that it's summer and not all MMORPGers are actually pale basement dwellers. Lots of people are out of school on a summer job, out at the beach/mountains/river/etc, and otherwise not interested in an MMO. People who leave an MMO early in the year might just skip getting another one until the weather makes them want to be indoors all the time.

    Though I do suspect that a lot of people are just leaving their current game and waiting for some of the hopefully-not-junk MMOs that are in the works.

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