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WoW sinking in the site ratings

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  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457


    Originally posted by apertotes


    Originally posted by baff
    Similarly, I will not buy a book that is falling apart for a premium price. If it's on the shelf, it needs to be of a certain quality. Not just in appearnce but also in literary style. The author must write coherently and must practise all the craft necessary to make great art. Jackson Pollock is no Michelangelo.

    I was just describing the aspect of the game pertaining to quality. I don't seek to portray WoW as the most fun I have ever had in an MMO, but I do believe in credit where credit is due. It's high standard of quality and innovation is one of the reasons I liked the game. Technical achievement in games is something I look out for while I play.
    In the same vein the astounding graphics in Far Cry or the marvellous server limits in Eve greatly enhanced my enjoyment of those games.
    Balance for me is a quality issue. It is something that should be ironed out before the game launches or before a patch is released. For example the mid game nerfs in COH or the introduction of BFR's in Planetside (and perhaps SWGs CU) greatly lowered my enjoyment of those games.
    .
    .
    Crafting for me was essentially part of the endgame, it added another hundred or so hours of intrest. The craft quests were fun to play and the resource gathering drove the economy. Some crafts were more useful to character advancement than others. The implementation was the best yet, I especially liked the trade window where you can let other people enhance your equipment without it ever leaving your possesion. How many times have you been ripped off like that in other games?
     The economy was excellently implemented with the auction houses and mailbox systems. I especially liked that you could mail things to your alts, thereby eliminating the expensive need for mule accounts. Auctions could be exciting and taught me how to use Ebay better. There was a lively trade circuit to be found in the capitals, complete with full time traders and bankers. The ability to view an items properties by hyper link from the chat window and also to "virtually" try it on to see what it looks like on you and how it affects your stats was yet another great implementation to this area of the game. 
    I enjoyed my time spent at lvl 60 more than the rest of game, I felt I had more freedom to explore and had not seen most of the content until then. Although I never finished all of the lvl 60 instances I was pleased to see that they constantly added to them to keep endgame material growing. If you are the type of person that is truely a mindless grinder, immensley timesinking advancements are still available through crafting, PvP and Raiding. There is no reason for your advancement ever to reach a limit.
     I'm not especially keen on PvP, but I thought the gametypes found in the battlegrounds were a great addition, I also enjoyed the immersion of accidently joinng an army on the march. Very Orc, and raiding an enemy capital on the otherside of the world with a big army at lvl 25 was very exciting also. I thought it very well done how you could advance your character equally fast through PvP (faster for reputation) and that PvP provided a seperate tree of items (more powerful than the ones found in PvE), I felt this gave the game greater flexibility in playstyles. I like varied gameplay and I like the diversity of players this brings.
     Death penalties were milder than I was used to (or prefer), but entertainingly implemented. Now that the game has been around for long enough, I would like to see some Hardcore/permadeath servers, to add to the replayability.
    The only politics I noticed were Clan politics and I didn't/don't enjoy them. In other games I have found politics to be much more inhibiting to the people I am allowed to play with. In Games such as Matrix the game will penalise you for playing with other factions, and so friends made before becoming political must be abandoned. This is still a problem in WoW, if your friend has started a alliance and you a horde, one of you must start again or you will never play together, but less so than in many other games. The great fun implementaion here (WoW is simply full of them) was the is the use of language. You can't communicate with the enemy faction they speaks gobbledygook. The politics of hardcare PvP or Raid clans are likewise as unpleasant as you might expect from any group of gamers taking life too seriously. I saw people fall out a lot in these circumsatnces and give up playing. The game has plenty of other content to do and advancements to gain without being forced to play this way if you do not so wish. you may not gain the ultimate uber kit of fabulousness, but you have ample access to all you need to go anywhere and do anything.
    The opportunity for roleplay was everpresent, both in gameplay terms (within the group I play the role of a tank) and in acting terms (I am an orc I like war, the colour green, axes, expensive shirts and Halfling women).

    wow man, i dont know why it took you so long to finally post something really with substance and not just sales numbers or flames. very good post, although i disagree completely ::::02::


    Because I've already posted all this 100 times before and I already know you disagree. This isn't a subject that intrests me.

     Sales numbers is what intrests me. I don't care about dissection or reviews of the game, I've already played it, you've already played it. We've all commented on it before. We all know what the game is like already and we all know if we already like it.

    I like sales figures, I like to see how audiences break down worldwide. I like to spot marketing and business trends. Sorry if I flamed you before, I'd like to think I don't do that without excessive provocation, but it's not always true.

    I'm only really intrested in addressing posts that make wild and silly aspersions that clearly aren't true. I find hard evidence a very good way of judging the opinions of the poster. That way when I read their opinions of games I haven't tried, I know whether or not I can take their other reviews seriously. I think posting accurate figures allows for others to make that same connection. It also allows for those figures to get updated, corrected and further analysed.

    Whatever someones opinion of WoW like or dislike, love hate or indifference, if they make up nonsense to reinforce theirr opinion, I will not only enjoy pulling them up on it, but remember to pay no especial credence to any other review they make. Sales figures aren't so much a way of judging the game, as a way of judging the opinions given about the game.

  • Mikes123Mikes123 Member Posts: 114


    Originally posted by baff

    Whatever someones opinion of WoW like or dislike, love hate or indifference, if they make up nonsense to reinforce theirr opinion, I will not only enjoy pulling them up on it, but remember to pay no especial credence to any other review they make. Sales figures aren't so much a way of judging the game, as a way of judging the opinions given about the game.


    good point about the salesnumbers........ anyone remember how many copies of "Planescape Torment" were sold?
    i know i know it s singleplayer and not an MMO, but... if there s any rpg i would have to vote into the "top 5 of computer rpgs ever" it would be planescape torment, but eh i don t think it did well saleswise at all
  • apertotesapertotes Member Posts: 363


    Originally posted by baff

    Because I've already posted all this 100 times before and I already know you disagree. This isn't a subject that intrests me.
     Sales numbers is what intrests me. I don't care about dissection or reviews of the game, I've already played it, you've already played it. We've all commented on it before. We all know what the game is like already and we all know if we already like it.
    I like sales figures, I like to see how audiences break down worldwide. I like to spot marketing and business trends. Sorry if I flamed you before, I'd like to think I don't do that without excessive provocation, but it's not always true.
    I'm only really intrested in addressing posts that make wild and silly aspersions that clearly aren't true. I find hard evidence a very good way of judging the opinions of the poster. That way when I read their opinions of games I haven't tried, I know whether or not I can take their other reviews seriously. I think posting accurate figures allows for others to make that same connection. It also allows for those figures to get updated, corrected and further analysed.
    Whatever someones opinion of WoW like or dislike, love hate or indifference, if they make up nonsense to reinforce theirr opinion, I will not only enjoy pulling them up on it, but remember to pay no especial credence to any other review they make. Sales figures aren't so much a way of judging the game, as a way of judging the opinions given about the game.

    well, that is the part i dont agree. like i have said before, and the poster above me just reminded, Planescape Torment is one of the best single RPGs, yet it did very bad sales wise. on the other hand, any EA FIFA Footbal game since 1999 its been crap, yet it has sold a lot of copies. i could say the same about Diablo 2, or even Warcraft 3 and Age of Empires 3, average games, with extraordinay sales numbers. also Gothic 2 is a marvelous game, but it cant compare sales wise to Diablo or Neverwinter Nights (which happens to be a very good game also) or KOTOR (nice game too).

    There are many strategy games better than AoE3 or Warcraft 3 (Europa Universalis 2, Hearts of Iron, Ground Control, Civilization...) but only Civ can compare on units sold.

    and i have already given movies figures, and i am sure we could do the same with music, books, clothes, food or cars. more sales doesnt equal more quality. more sales means popularity. and popularity doesnt mean quality either. and i am glad it is so.

    i dont care about Dire Straits sold cd's. i love their music, and i think they do quality stuff. so what if Britney Spears sold 20 times more? for me it means nothing.

    i dont care if Usal Suspects is not one of the most profitable movies of the last 20 years. for me is great. i am not going to see the next American Pie movie just because it is a sales monster.

    so for me, it has more value the post you made about WoW and why you liked it than all the others about sales and numbers. in fact, if i were to see a review of another game made by you, it would serve me much more to know why you liked wow, than how many units it sold.

  • NecranNecran Member Posts: 309
    I can't believe this thread isn't dead yet,

    WoW isn't going anywhere soon, better games will come out in the future but WoW will still turn a profit with 25% of their current subscribers.

    Personally i look foreward to telling people that act like idiots in Warhammer to "go play WoW".




  • EindrachenEindrachen Member Posts: 211


    Originally posted by Necran
    I can't believe this thread isn't dead yet,

    WoW isn't going anywhere soon, better games will come out in the future but WoW will still turn a profit with 25% of their current subscribers.

    Personally i look foreward to telling people that act like idiots in Warhammer to "go play WoW".




    QFT
  • Mikes123Mikes123 Member Posts: 114


    Originally posted by necbone
    however, wow is the hottest shit....





    well i d say yer about "half" right with that statement! ya just used 10 letters to many ! ~

    honestly, compared to what it was marketed as, a "Warcraft MMO" wich would imply huge battles that had an impact... it s a complete failure... it s more like the old "Everquest gear grind" with a Warcraft theme lol.
  • Amnesiac07Amnesiac07 Member Posts: 103


    Originally posted by Mikes123


    honestly, compared to what it was marketed as, a "Warcraft MMO" wich would imply huge battles that had an impact... it s a complete failure... it s more like the old "Everquest gear grind" with a Warcraft theme lol.



    Long time troller, first time poster.  Gotta say this just about sums it up to me.  As a former EQ addict, the "Evercrack" feel was what I was looking for in WoW.  I guess the best way I could say it is that the grind just wasn't compelling.  It just felt watered-down, also the demographics were a little too young and "ph33r my l33tness" for my tastes.  The battlegound PvP system did seem to ultimately be a failure imo, and wasn't the nice change of pace from the PvE raiding that I thought it would be.  I'm not a raging anti-fanboi, obviously WoW has revenues and profits that were unphatomable for a MMORPG prior to its release.  I'm glad so many people like it, hopefully it keeps the console kiddies off of the next mmo that is great to me, if I ever find it.  It wasn't eq2 and it CERTAINLY wasn't WoW.  I mean if I had an mmo that that was occupying the amount of time I'd like, I wouldn't have time for forums.

    P.S. One aspect where I am a hater- the cartoony graphics.  Tried to come around on them, but they always killed the immersion for me, dunno why.

  • variusvarius Member Posts: 32


    Originally posted by Necran

    Personally i look foreward to telling people that act like idiots in Warhammer to "go play WoW".






    Best post on this thread thus far!
  • necbonenecbone Member Posts: 358


    Originally posted by rockin_ufo
    we're not bein snobs u souldnt be a snoob ur insultin us for tell us are opinion. i said i dont want to affend any1, cant u read, an WoW doesnt suck its just not worth pay, cant we stake our own opinion. u have no rite to say are opinions arent worth lookin at.

    wow is worth paying for.....they have servers, a website, they've added so much content since release(with 50+ million it should be more content), gm's, and it's a better product across the board - pvp, raiding, endgame raiding, AUCTION HOUSE, chat system, zoning, world map, instances, bosses, moddable UI, etc.....

    i'm a fan of the scene, show me a better product and i'll play it...
  • hdawg06hdawg06 Member Posts: 2


    Originally posted by necbone

    Originally posted by rockin_ufo
    we're not bein snobs u souldnt be a snoob ur insultin us for tell us are opinion. i said i dont want to affend any1, cant u read, an WoW doesnt suck its just not worth pay, cant we stake our own opinion. u have no rite to say are opinions arent worth lookin at.
    wow is worth paying for.....they have servers, a website, they've added so much content since release(with 50+ million it should be more content), gm's, and it's a better product across the board - pvp, raiding, endgame raiding, AUCTION HOUSE, chat system, zoning, world map, instances, bosses, moddable UI, etc.....

    i'm a fan of the scene, show me a better product and i'll play it...


    Huh? Am I off my rocker, or did I just here someone say WoW has 50Million players?
  • necbonenecbone Member Posts: 358
    sorry i meant $50+ million..........

    .i was saying its alittle messed up there shouldnt be a shitload of more content with all the money they made, blizzard fails in that department, there should be multiple instances for all lvls and more 5-10 man party/raid instances for 60's too....wow fails in many places, but its still fun to me, all games have flaws, its just which game's flaws can you live with the most..

  • LokimerLokimer Member Posts: 89


    Originally posted by necbone
    sorry i meant $50+ million..........

    .i was saying its alittle messed up there shouldnt be a shitload of more content with all the money they made, blizzard fails in that department, there should be multiple instances for all lvls and more 5-10 man party/raid instances for 60's too....wow fails in many places, but its still fun to me, all games have flaws, its just which game's flaws can you live with the most..


    5 Million bud. 5 Million.
  • necbonenecbone Member Posts: 358


    Originally posted by Lokimer

    Originally posted by necbone
    sorry i meant $50+ million..........

    .i was saying its alittle messed up there shouldnt be a shitload of more content with all the money they made, blizzard fails in that department, there should be multiple instances for all lvls and more 5-10 man party/raid instances for 60's too....wow fails in many places, but its still fun to me, all games have flaws, its just which game's flaws can you live with the most..

    5 Million bud. 5 Million.

    before you "insert a slightly witty remark" please read my shit first, bud... .i should not have to come back to this sad sad thread of wow haters to reply to you, right?....

    as i was saying in my quote, blizzard has made $50+ million on WoW....

    pay attention bud^^, pay attention.
  • LokimerLokimer Member Posts: 89


    Originally posted by necbone

    Originally posted by Lokimer

    Originally posted by necbone
    sorry i meant $50+ million..........

    .i was saying its alittle messed up there shouldnt be a shitload of more content with all the money they made, blizzard fails in that department, there should be multiple instances for all lvls and more 5-10 man party/raid instances for 60's too....wow fails in many places, but its still fun to me, all games have flaws, its just which game's flaws can you live with the most..

    5 Million bud. 5 Million.

    before you "insert a slightly witty remark" please read my shit first, bud... .i should not have to come back to this sad sad thread of wow haters to reply to you, right?....

    as i was saying in my quote, blizzard has made $50+ million on WoW....

    pay attention bud^^, pay attention.


    I was just trying to help out, sorry?

    I'm surprised you took so much offense, something troubling you?

  • reavoreavo Member Posts: 2,173


    Originally posted by necbone

    Originally posted by Lokimer

    Originally posted by necbone
    sorry i meant $50+ million..........

    .i was saying its alittle messed up there shouldnt be a shitload of more content with all the money they made, blizzard fails in that department, there should be multiple instances for all lvls and more 5-10 man party/raid instances for 60's too....wow fails in many places, but its still fun to me, all games have flaws, its just which game's flaws can you live with the most..

    5 Million bud. 5 Million.

    before you "insert a slightly witty remark" please read my shit first, bud... .i should not have to come back to this sad sad thread of wow haters to reply to you, right?....

    as i was saying in my quote, blizzard has made $50+ million on WoW....

    pay attention bud^^, pay attention.


    Hey, hey, hey.  Watch the language!  Potty mouth. 

    Oh, wait.  You are a WoW player.  Okay, now I understand.
  • Pride7Pride7 Member Posts: 289

    I come back and see this thread is still on the front page.  Sadly no matter how much talking the WOW haters do they can't change the fact that WOW is the #1 MMORPG on the market in terms of sales, subscriptions, and RATINGS/REVIEWS.

    I would like to see more content added for the level 60 solo players but even missing that it is still the #1 MMO on the market based on FACTS.  If it isn't #1 to an individual I respect that, but realize that is only your opinion and the majority of MMO players disagree.

  • EindrachenEindrachen Member Posts: 211


    Originally posted by Pride7

    I come back and see this thread is still on the front page.  Sadly no matter how much talking the WOW haters do they can't change the fact that WOW is the #1 MMORPG on the market in terms of sales, subscriptions, and RATINGS/REVIEWS.
    I would like to see more content added for the level 60 solo players but even missing that it is still the #1 MMO on the market based on FACTS.  If it isn't #1 to an individual I respect that, but realize that is only your opinion and the majority of MMO players disagree.


    Must hurt, having to talk about ratings and stuff, instead of the actual things in the game that are fun.  I even see that you noted that there is a lack of content for end-game non-raiders.

    Sales, ratings, numbers.  They're all relative anyway.  Sales don't mean squat.  EQ had the best sales of any MMO in its heyday.  Now look at it.

    And ratings?  God, don't make me laugh.  Ratings are just opinions, only with numbers instead of words.  Hell, let me rate WOW: I give it a 6.0.  Does that make my rating any more valid than what some random stranger prints in a magazine?  Of course not!

    A movie critic can give a movie a rating, but I bet sure as hell nobody here would be stupid enough to take their word for it.  Plenty of movies that bombed in the box office and got crap reviews went on to become cult classics.

    So how do numbers mean anything with regards to a game?  If you find Game A fun, and all the reviews for it are low, and it didn't sell too good, does that make the game less fun?  What if Game B got great reviews, lots of sales, and you found it the most boring piece of garbage ever coded?  Do the numbers make it any better?

    Folks, the argument about whether or not WOW is any good is a stupid f***ing argument.  Let's argue about a movie, or a piece of art, or something else with relative value to the individual making a decision about it.  You put 12 people into a room with some piece of entertainment, and you'll likely get 20 views on it in the end.

    Nobody can point to sales and ratings to prove that WOW is "good".  All those numbers means are that it got high numbers in the MMO market.  Good for them.  Blizzard's making money.

    But in no way does that impart value to the game.  I may say, "it's got a good game from start to end-game, but end-game is very limited to raid content, and the PVP system is screwed all to Hell and back".  But that doesn't mean anyone has to agree.  Nor should they; I fully expect people to go out and play something and try to form their own opinions about it.

    Quantity does not equal quality.  This isn't some proverbial quip; it's the f***ing truth.  You can have one high and the other low, or both high, or both low.  But they are seperate virtues, and must be measured seperately by the individual.

    List all the statistics you want.

    That doesn't make the game any more or less fun than it was to begin with.

  • kimmarkimmar Member Posts: 446


    Originally posted by Pride7

    I come back and see this thread is still on the front page.  Sadly no matter how much talking the WOW haters do they can't change the fact that WOW is the #1 MMORPG on the market in terms of sales, subscriptions, and RATINGS/REVIEWS.
    I would like to see more content added for the level 60 solo players but even missing that it is still the #1 MMO on the market based on FACTS.  If it isn't #1 to an individual I respect that, but realize that is only your opinion and the majority of MMO players disagree.


    Not the majority of MMO players who come to this site.

    I think it's right where it should be compared to the games above it.  It was first MMO game that a friend talked me into playing.  And I had some fun with it.  But I didn't know what I was missing until I started playing DAoC and EQ2.

    I'm having probably twice the fun in those games as I did with WoW. 

    It's a good gateway game.  Because I'm not sure I would have understood DAoC or EQ2 if I hadn't played it first.  But once you're ready to kick off the training wheels, there are some much more fun and complex games out there.

    =============================
    It all seems so stupid
    It makes me want to give up
    But why should I give up
    When it all seems so stupid

  • Pride7Pride7 Member Posts: 289


    Originally posted by kimmar

    Originally posted by Pride7

    I come back and see this thread is still on the front page.  Sadly no matter how much talking the WOW haters do they can't change the fact that WOW is the #1 MMORPG on the market in terms of sales, subscriptions, and RATINGS/REVIEWS.
    I would like to see more content added for the level 60 solo players but even missing that it is still the #1 MMO on the market based on FACTS.  If it isn't #1 to an individual I respect that, but realize that is only your opinion and the majority of MMO players disagree.

    Not the majority of MMO players who come to this site.

    I think it's right where it should be compared to the games above it.  It was first MMO game that a friend talked me into playing.  And I had some fun with it.  But I didn't know what I was missing until I started playing DAoC and EQ2.

    I'm having probably twice the fun in those games as I did with WoW. 

    It's a good gateway game.  Because I'm not sure I would have understood DAoC or EQ2 if I hadn't played it first.  But once you're ready to kick off the training wheels, there are some much more fun and complex games out there.



    Ask yourself one question:  If you were a company would you care more about what the majority of MMO players of one site thought or what the majority of TOTAL MMO players thought?
  • Pride7Pride7 Member Posts: 289


    Originally posted by Eindrachen

    Originally posted by Pride7

    I come back and see this thread is still on the front page.  Sadly no matter how much talking the WOW haters do they can't change the fact that WOW is the #1 MMORPG on the market in terms of sales, subscriptions, and RATINGS/REVIEWS.
    I would like to see more content added for the level 60 solo players but even missing that it is still the #1 MMO on the market based on FACTS.  If it isn't #1 to an individual I respect that, but realize that is only your opinion and the majority of MMO players disagree.

    Must hurt, having to talk about ratings and stuff, instead of the actual things in the game that are fun.  I even see that you noted that there is a lack of content for end-game non-raiders.

    Sales, ratings, numbers.  They're all relative anyway.  Sales don't mean squat.  EQ had the best sales of any MMO in its heyday.  Now look at it.

    And ratings?  God, don't make me laugh.  Ratings are just opinions, only with numbers instead of words.  Hell, let me rate WOW: I give it a 6.0.  Does that make my rating any more valid than what some random stranger prints in a magazine?  Of course not!

    A movie critic can give a movie a rating, but I bet sure as hell nobody here would be stupid enough to take their word for it.  Plenty of movies that bombed in the box office and got crap reviews went on to become cult classics.

    So how do numbers mean anything with regards to a game?  If you find Game A fun, and all the reviews for it are low, and it didn't sell too good, does that make the game less fun?  What if Game B got great reviews, lots of sales, and you found it the most boring piece of garbage ever coded?  Do the numbers make it any better?

    Folks, the argument about whether or not WOW is any good is a stupid f***ing argument.  Let's argue about a movie, or a piece of art, or something else with relative value to the individual making a decision about it.  You put 12 people into a room with some piece of entertainment, and you'll likely get 20 views on it in the end.

    Nobody can point to sales and ratings to prove that WOW is "good".  All those numbers means are that it got high numbers in the MMO market.  Good for them.  Blizzard's making money.

    But in no way does that impart value to the game.  I may say, "it's got a good game from start to end-game, but end-game is very limited to raid content, and the PVP system is screwed all to Hell and back".  But that doesn't mean anyone has to agree.  Nor should they; I fully expect people to go out and play something and try to form their own opinions about it.

    Quantity does not equal quality.  This isn't some proverbial quip; it's the f***ing truth.  You can have one high and the other low, or both high, or both low.  But they are seperate virtues, and must be measured seperately by the individual.

    List all the statistics you want.

    That doesn't make the game any more or less fun than it was to begin with.



    What is good to one person isn't necessarily good to another person, that is subjective.  What isn't subjective are facts.  The facts say that WOW is the #1 MMO on the market today. 

    The comparison to WOW vs. movies is a dumb analogy.  You pay 1 time to go watch a movie, you pay $15 a month to play WOW.  Are you saying that the over 6M subscribers of WOW do not think it is fun?

  • Pride7Pride7 Member Posts: 289


    Originally posted by Eindrachen

    Originally posted by Pride7

    I come back and see this thread is still on the front page.  Sadly no matter how much talking the WOW haters do they can't change the fact that WOW is the #1 MMORPG on the market in terms of sales, subscriptions, and RATINGS/REVIEWS.
    I would like to see more content added for the level 60 solo players but even missing that it is still the #1 MMO on the market based on FACTS.  If it isn't #1 to an individual I respect that, but realize that is only your opinion and the majority of MMO players disagree.

    Must hurt, having to talk about ratings and stuff, instead of the actual things in the game that are fun.  I even see that you noted that there is a lack of content for end-game non-raiders.

    Sales, ratings, numbers.  They're all relative anyway.  Sales don't mean squat.  EQ had the best sales of any MMO in its heyday.  Now look at it.

    And ratings?  God, don't make me laugh.  Ratings are just opinions, only with numbers instead of words.  Hell, let me rate WOW: I give it a 6.0.  Does that make my rating any more valid than what some random stranger prints in a magazine?  Of course not!

    A movie critic can give a movie a rating, but I bet sure as hell nobody here would be stupid enough to take their word for it.  Plenty of movies that bombed in the box office and got crap reviews went on to become cult classics.

    So how do numbers mean anything with regards to a game?  If you find Game A fun, and all the reviews for it are low, and it didn't sell too good, does that make the game less fun?  What if Game B got great reviews, lots of sales, and you found it the most boring piece of garbage ever coded?  Do the numbers make it any better?

    Folks, the argument about whether or not WOW is any good is a stupid f***ing argument.  Let's argue about a movie, or a piece of art, or something else with relative value to the individual making a decision about it.  You put 12 people into a room with some piece of entertainment, and you'll likely get 20 views on it in the end.

    Nobody can point to sales and ratings to prove that WOW is "good".  All those numbers means are that it got high numbers in the MMO market.  Good for them.  Blizzard's making money.

    But in no way does that impart value to the game.  I may say, "it's got a good game from start to end-game, but end-game is very limited to raid content, and the PVP system is screwed all to Hell and back".  But that doesn't mean anyone has to agree.  Nor should they; I fully expect people to go out and play something and try to form their own opinions about it.

    Quantity does not equal quality.  This isn't some proverbial quip; it's the f***ing truth.  You can have one high and the other low, or both high, or both low.  But they are seperate virtues, and must be measured seperately by the individual.

    List all the statistics you want.

    That doesn't make the game any more or less fun than it was to begin with.


    Must hurt to have the facts against your subjective argument.  You say what's good is subjective then cry when I list facts.  I could tell you what I found fun about the game but I am bright enough to realize what I found fun may not be fun to you - as that is SUBJECTIVE.  What isn't subjective are FACTS, please try to understand that as I grow tired of educating you people.
  • TreborLockeTreborLocke Member Posts: 72



    Originally posted by Pride7

    Must hurt to have the facts against your subjective argument.  You say what's good is subjective then cry when I list facts.  I could tell you what I found fun about the game but I am bright enough to realize what I found fun may not be fun to you - as that is SUBJECTIVE.  What isn't subjective are FACTS, please try to understand that as I grow tired of educating you people.




    Sir, what you have given as your evidence is quantitative not qualitative.  The reason why no one could possibly care about your statistics is because you do not understand the difference between the two.

    You give numbers and sales projections which happen to be quantitative forms of data.  You have not given a single bit of qualitative data to backup your efforts at giving a successful retort.

    Here are the qualitative facts on WoW:

    Pros: Easy to pick up and play, fun and quick leveling system from 1-59, wonderful way to get in to the world of MMO gaming.

    Cons: High Ratings were given BEFORE patches (No raitings have been given by magazines after patches for specific reasons) allowing for hype to be misleading, The Lore of the game is not consistant from patch to patch, the game leads you by the hand up to level 60, at level 60 if you don't have the free time you can not enjoy the larger extent of raid dungeons because of little kids running most guilds (with the little kids having more free time than the average gamer), gear dependent, Broken PVP system (Admitted by Blizzard)

    WoW is a good game for a person wanting to pick up the hobby of MMO gaming, but for those of us who like a little more depth and thought to our MMO's (Seasoned MMO players) WoW turns out to be a persons worst nightmare come true. 

    I don't care how much the game sells or how many subscribers are on it.  It's an easy game to pick up and nothing more and yes, they are losing subscribers now because all the casuals now have 60s.  If burning crusade 1) doesn't come out soon or 2) fails to deliver or 3) Both 1 and 2 happens, the game will take a nose dive right in to the ground.  There are no ifs ands or buts about it.

    I dare you to write qualitative reasons (mentioning things other than subscriber numbers and crap like that) as to why people should play WoW.  Give Pros and Cons, because quite frankly, no one will ever take your numbers serriously (or any of you WoW fanbois serriously for that matter)

    (1997) UO --> EQ -> Runescape -> DAoC -> WoW -> EVE + WAR (2008)

  • Pride7Pride7 Member Posts: 289


    Originally posted by TreborLocke




    Originally posted by Pride7
    Must hurt to have the facts against your subjective argument.  You say what's good is subjective then cry when I list facts.  I could tell you what I found fun about the game but I am bright enough to realize what I found fun may not be fun to you - as that is SUBJECTIVE.  What isn't subjective are FACTS, please try to understand that as I grow tired of educating you people.




    Sir, what you have given as your evidence is quantitative not qualitative.  The reason why no one could possibly care about your statistics is because you do not understand the difference between the two.

    You give numbers and sales projections which happen to be quantitative forms of data.  You have not given a single bit of qualitative data to backup your efforts at giving a successful retort.

    Here are the qualitative facts on WoW:

    Pros: Easy to pick up and play, fun and quick leveling system from 1-59, wonderful way to get in to the world of MMO gaming.

    Cons: High Ratings were given BEFORE patches (No raitings have been given by magazines after patches for specific reasons) allowing for hype to be misleading, The Lore of the game is not consistant from patch to patch, the game leads you by the hand up to level 60, at level 60 if you don't have the free time you can not enjoy the larger extent of raid dungeons because of little kids running most guilds (with the little kids having more free time than the average gamer), gear dependent, Broken PVP system (Admitted by Blizzard)

    WoW is a good game for a person wanting to pick up the hobby of MMO gaming, but for those of us who like a little more depth and thought to our MMO's (Seasoned MMO players) WoW turns out to be a persons worst nightmare come true. 

    I don't care how much the game sells or how many subscribers are on it.  It's an easy game to pick up and nothing more and yes, they are losing subscribers now because all the casuals now have 60s.  If burning crusade 1) doesn't come out soon or 2) fails to deliver or 3) Both 1 and 2 happens, the game will take a nose dive right in to the ground.  There are no ifs ands or buts about it.

    I dare you to write qualitative reasons (mentioning things other than subscriber numbers and crap like that) as to why people should play WoW.  Give Pros and Cons, because quite frankly, no one will ever take your numbers serriously (or any of you WoW fanbois serriously for that matter)


    I hate to prove just a new member like yourself so incredibly wrong but seeing as you are probably just someone's 2nd or 3rd account I will go ahead and do just that...

    Ratings/Reviews ARE qualitative not quantitative.  WOW has acheived more positive, higher rated reviews than ANY OTHER MMO.  This is a fact.  What I find good/bad about the game is my opinion and I am smart enough to realize that even if you aren't.

    It is amusing to see the WOW haters scurry like ants when it comes to providing any facts to back up their bold claims.  All they have is their single minded opinions which they do not realize limit a game to a small target audience.  WOW broke the barriers and is growing each day, instead of bashing it they should be thanking it.

  • TreborLockeTreborLocke Member Posts: 72


    Originally posted by Pride7

    Originally posted by TreborLocke




    Originally posted by Pride7
    Must hurt to have the facts against your subjective argument.  You say what's good is subjective then cry when I list facts.  I could tell you what I found fun about the game but I am bright enough to realize what I found fun may not be fun to you - as that is SUBJECTIVE.  What isn't subjective are FACTS, please try to understand that as I grow tired of educating you people.




    Sir, what you have given as your evidence is quantitative not qualitative.  The reason why no one could possibly care about your statistics is because you do not understand the difference between the two.

    You give numbers and sales projections which happen to be quantitative forms of data.  You have not given a single bit of qualitative data to backup your efforts at giving a successful retort.

    Here are the qualitative facts on WoW:

    Pros: Easy to pick up and play, fun and quick leveling system from 1-59, wonderful way to get in to the world of MMO gaming.

    Cons: High Ratings were given BEFORE patches (No raitings have been given by magazines after patches for specific reasons) allowing for hype to be misleading, The Lore of the game is not consistant from patch to patch, the game leads you by the hand up to level 60, at level 60 if you don't have the free time you can not enjoy the larger extent of raid dungeons because of little kids running most guilds (with the little kids having more free time than the average gamer), gear dependent, Broken PVP system (Admitted by Blizzard)

    WoW is a good game for a person wanting to pick up the hobby of MMO gaming, but for those of us who like a little more depth and thought to our MMO's (Seasoned MMO players) WoW turns out to be a persons worst nightmare come true. 

    I don't care how much the game sells or how many subscribers are on it.  It's an easy game to pick up and nothing more and yes, they are losing subscribers now because all the casuals now have 60s.  If burning crusade 1) doesn't come out soon or 2) fails to deliver or 3) Both 1 and 2 happens, the game will take a nose dive right in to the ground.  There are no ifs ands or buts about it.

    I dare you to write qualitative reasons (mentioning things other than subscriber numbers and crap like that) as to why people should play WoW.  Give Pros and Cons, because quite frankly, no one will ever take your numbers serriously (or any of you WoW fanbois serriously for that matter)


    I hate to prove just a new member like yourself so incredibly wrong but seeing as you are probably just someone's 2nd or 3rd account I will go ahead and do just that...

    Ratings/Reviews ARE qualitative not quantitative.  WOW has acheived more positive, higher rated reviews than ANY OTHER MMO.  This is a fact.  What I find good/bad about the game is my opinion and I am smart enough to realize that even if you aren't.

    It is amusing to see the WOW haters scurry like ants when it comes to providing any facts to back up their bold claims.  All they have is their single minded opinions which they do not realize limit a game to a small target audience.  WOW broke the barriers and is growing each day, instead of bashing it they should be thanking it.


    You've gotta be kidding me.  You haven't graduated grade school have you?  A Review that has a Number is considered in the world of mathematics as QUANTITATIVE data.  Quantity = Numbers  Quality = Words.  You yourself have not given your own Qualitative data, you just point to other peoples reviews and the numbers they assign them.

    I want you to give your own qualitative reasoning as to why WoW is good as opposed to pointing to other reviews which give strictly numbers.  The more you point to other reviews the more you show your imcompetence and your inability to think for yourself.

    Get your diploma before you play with the big boys kiddo. 

    Edit: This is my first and only account on this website.  Your assumption that this is simply an alt account is proof that you have to foster explanations for your lack evidentary support for your argument.

    (1997) UO --> EQ -> Runescape -> DAoC -> WoW -> EVE + WAR (2008)

  • Pride7Pride7 Member Posts: 289


    Originally posted by TreborLocke

    Originally posted by Pride7

    Originally posted by TreborLocke




    Originally posted by Pride7
    Must hurt to have the facts against your subjective argument.  You say what's good is subjective then cry when I list facts.  I could tell you what I found fun about the game but I am bright enough to realize what I found fun may not be fun to you - as that is SUBJECTIVE.  What isn't subjective are FACTS, please try to understand that as I grow tired of educating you people.




    Sir, what you have given as your evidence is quantitative not qualitative.  The reason why no one could possibly care about your statistics is because you do not understand the difference between the two.

    You give numbers and sales projections which happen to be quantitative forms of data.  You have not given a single bit of qualitative data to backup your efforts at giving a successful retort.

    Here are the qualitative facts on WoW:

    Pros: Easy to pick up and play, fun and quick leveling system from 1-59, wonderful way to get in to the world of MMO gaming.

    Cons: High Ratings were given BEFORE patches (No raitings have been given by magazines after patches for specific reasons) allowing for hype to be misleading, The Lore of the game is not consistant from patch to patch, the game leads you by the hand up to level 60, at level 60 if you don't have the free time you can not enjoy the larger extent of raid dungeons because of little kids running most guilds (with the little kids having more free time than the average gamer), gear dependent, Broken PVP system (Admitted by Blizzard)

    WoW is a good game for a person wanting to pick up the hobby of MMO gaming, but for those of us who like a little more depth and thought to our MMO's (Seasoned MMO players) WoW turns out to be a persons worst nightmare come true. 

    I don't care how much the game sells or how many subscribers are on it.  It's an easy game to pick up and nothing more and yes, they are losing subscribers now because all the casuals now have 60s.  If burning crusade 1) doesn't come out soon or 2) fails to deliver or 3) Both 1 and 2 happens, the game will take a nose dive right in to the ground.  There are no ifs ands or buts about it.

    I dare you to write qualitative reasons (mentioning things other than subscriber numbers and crap like that) as to why people should play WoW.  Give Pros and Cons, because quite frankly, no one will ever take your numbers serriously (or any of you WoW fanbois serriously for that matter)


    I hate to prove just a new member like yourself so incredibly wrong but seeing as you are probably just someone's 2nd or 3rd account I will go ahead and do just that...

    Ratings/Reviews ARE qualitative not quantitative.  WOW has acheived more positive, higher rated reviews than ANY OTHER MMO.  This is a fact.  What I find good/bad about the game is my opinion and I am smart enough to realize that even if you aren't.

    It is amusing to see the WOW haters scurry like ants when it comes to providing any facts to back up their bold claims.  All they have is their single minded opinions which they do not realize limit a game to a small target audience.  WOW broke the barriers and is growing each day, instead of bashing it they should be thanking it.


    You've gotta be kidding me.  You haven't graduated grade school have you?  A Review that has a Number is considered in the world of mathematics as QUANTITATIVE data.  Quantity = Numbers  Quality = Words.  You yourself have not given your own Qualitative data, you just point to other peoples reviews and the numbers they assign them.

    I want you to give your own qualitative reasoning as to why WoW is good as opposed to pointing to other reviews which give strictly numbers.  The more you point to other reviews the more you show your imcompetence and your inability to think for yourself.

    Get your diploma before you play with the big boys kiddo. 

    Edit: This is my first and only account on this website.  Your assumption that this is simply an alt account is proof that you have to foster explanations for your lack evidentary support for your argument.



    You poor misguided soul.  If you don't think a review can be qualitative I really don't know how to help you other than suggest you educate yourself a bit further and then come back.  Here is a simple question that should help you along - When Ebert gives a movie a thumbs up or thumbs down is that qualitative or quantitative?

    It is almost laughable how these people pathetically ask what I liked about the game as to try to discredit what I found enjoyable.  This is all they have as they have no other data points to back up their ignorant statements.  The facts are undisputable, however they continue to make ridiculus statements like "they are losing subscribers now because all the casuals now have 60s" without any evidence.  They confuse their opinions with factual evidence.  Hopefully they will learn the difference and move along but that is doubtful.

    Being the good sport that I am here are just some of the things I found FUN in the game:  Quests, crafting, auction house, combat, mounts, story, and variety in classes.  Now it is your turn, back up your statement "they are losing subscribers now because all the casuals now have 60s" with hard facts.  Otherwise admit your ignorance and edit your statement. 

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