I beta tested and then went on to play SWG until the release of the NGE. It used to be my favorite game by far. It's a shame to see how it is now and even worse that they(SOE/LA) seem absolutely blind to it all. Nobody wanted a WoW clone, we were largely happy with what we had.
Yes, there needed to be a focus on the GCW, DOTs needed to be addressed, more viable armor options outside of composite, insanely powerful doctor buffs, etc. Addressing those issues alone would've alleviated many issues. What we got instead were two completely differing combat systems, each leading to more subscription losses for SOE/LA.
I've resubscribed a few times to see if I can bear to play it, and I can't. Now I'm looking at my next game(Vanguard) possibly running into similar issues with them bringing SOE in as co-publisher and seemingly revamping many features to become more mainstream.
McQuaid from Sigil, like the SWG devs, seem to be unwilling to be able to admit they were wrong on any issues. If SWG could suck it up and go back to what we enjoyed playing, I know at least 20+ people who would gladly resubscribe. Imagine that on a large scale...
Originally posted by iceman00 Originally posted by Tauceti Hi all, 1st, let me say that I thought this article was well written and covered many of our points extremely well. 2nd, let me say that I very happy someone has finally had the guts to write such an article. This article should be stickyed in the general discussion forum for future players. Lets also, hope that this start a trend by similar sites to stand up and write such articles. Maybe then the lights will be turned on at SOE / LA and they'll wake up and do something decent about this. 3rd, I agree with about 90% of what was said. I however feel that the Pre-CU SWG had awesome potential. If they had spent the time and effort fixing the bugs, make minor adjustment to the combat system, and avoided using the Nerf bat, we would still be playing a great game. Especially and most importantly if they had spent the time and resources developing a lot of content and a true GCW, then I firmly believe SWG would have gone over 500K in subscription. The Pre-CU SWG was trule revolutionary, I especially say this since I've looked for a replacement and have yet to find one.
Anyhow that my 2 cents. IMO, Tauceti
Oh I agree the Pre-CU was revolutionary. And I was an ardent fan of it, and still am. However my focus was more based upon the reason why SOE/LA/your mother/ whoever it was that decided to make the changed.
Please don't mis-understand my intent on comment number 3. I was merely wanted to state that I felt thatif SOE / LA had managed Pre-CU SWG better than it had, that it could have easily done much better in subscription. I also firmly believe if the game had a truly developed GCW, the way most fans of Star Wars and the game had invisioned [in many ways I think this is what many really meant when some said that wanted more of a Star Wars fell] it might have even competed quite well with WoW.
The worst thing about all of this? No-one in the industy seems to be listening.
A real point here, that seems to get lost in all the side discussion, is the very real fact that Linear has won over Sandbox style of MMO. This has set the industry back about 6 years in my opinion. The "WoW effect" has single-handedly caused the sex change of SWG from an open-ended sandbox, to a sick, perverted, half-breed of a Linear crossover.
I just can't understand why developers hate sand-box games so much. Sandbox games are what the ultimate MMO is supposed to be, not linear.... not cooky-cutter... these types of MMO's can never simulate an open-ended world with the freedoms that sandbox games can. This linear crap that the "WoW effect" has brought has perverted the industry away from sand-box style games... as proof, one only needs to look at the games currently in development on the MMO horizion to see that there are zero sandbox MMO's even on the drawing board.
The next company to create a sandbox MMO will get my money, and lots of it.
Also, there needs to be more space-based MMO's (EVE doesn't really count, it's more of an RTS-MMORPG)... an MMO that ties the space game into the ground game (instead of two seperate entity's like SWG [unfortunatly] did) ... personally, I hate this cartoony fantasy crap that's out their right now. I hope we see a shift in the next generation of MMO's towards space-based settings.
I think we're entering a "dark age" in MMO history, where nothing of substance is being created, no real quality, no depth, no breadth.... and no end in sight.
hmmm, perhaps i should start a gaming site, i've been saying this since October-November when the first rumors about the NGE were starting to circulate.
i have started at least 5 threads on the Nazi boards saying exactly this, and all have been deleted rather quickly.
Sums up what peolple have been screaming about for months. It is nice to see it in such a highlighted state, on a website that has a dedicated MMO fan base. Lets hope other MMORPGs listen to what has/is being said.
Very nicely written. And it sums up SWG in a "nutshell." I played SWG from release, and stuck in there up until this January, and it was the best MMO I've played so far. I just wounder how long it will take for SOE to admit their mistakes and fix it....oh wait that will NEVER happen .
I loved Pre CU SWG (I loved pre holocron SWG even more) it was a virtual world that I loved to loose myself in. To this day I compare every MMO I play to SWG. And all come up short. Unfortunatly the SWG I remeber is no longer, and most likely will never exist again.
Had SWG not had the CU or NGE, I'd still be playing, and I'd still be paying SOE a monthly subscription fee.
But I am still searchign for that game to replace classic SWG if a developer manages to recreate that world, I'd sign up in an instant.
Originally posted by BigJonno What makes it worse is that if there ever was a game that needed to stick to its guns, it was SWG. I played the game a couple of months after release and, barring the inevitable problems caused by releasing about six months early, the vast majority of the complaints were from people who just didn't get it. I remember the rallying cry of "please don't let this game be Everquest in space!" It wasn't, it was something completely different and I don't think anyone could have done a better job of recreating an existing setting.
It seems to me that there are two distinct types of MMO out there. Massively multiplayer online games and massively multiplayer online worlds. WoW is very much a MMOG, it is designed to be played in a certain way and everything is geared to creating a fun playing experience. It's probably why this style of game has so many endgame problems, but that's another topic. SWG was very much an online world. There was no particular goal, you were given the Star Wars universe and could live in it however you liked. The reliance on other players (outside of the normal grouping context) was very indicitive of this. The people who were complaining were those who wanted a game and not a world. They were the ones maxing out their characters and wondering what they were supposed to do next. Unfortunately they were a very vocal group and I think that SWG's downfall is a result of that group being listened to too closely.
This is exactly right. The developers admit this themselves, they are going for a 'game' not an online world anymore. Star Wars is a type of license that has many 'games' out there -- in many genres, of many types, including multiplayer capable ones. What Star Wars didnt have was a recreation of its universe as a whole -- a world, and thats what SWG was to be. (And why it was my first MMORPG, because I'm a devout SW fan and there was nothing more appealing than living in a SW world to me)
Once they changed and made it evident their intention was to get away from this type of game, I was pretty much gone for good.
How many Vets remember what happened when the CU came out???
There was a gathering in Theed of players complaining about the Combat Upgrade and how no one wanted it! Remember what SOE did?
THEY BOOTED US ALL OUT OF THEED! CLOSED THE CITY TO EVERYONE.. BANNED ANY GATHERINGS AND EVEN BOOTED PAYING CUSTOMERS OFF THE GAME WHO VOICED THEIR COMPLAINTS.
Is it me or does SOE need some serious customer relations training?
Very well writen article and exacly what I've been trying to get through to $OE. Glad to see that someone with the tools of greater influince shares my logic
Originally posted by generis2 Although I agree with most points made in the editorial, I would like to offer another angle to be explored: There is no doubt that WoW is the undisbuted King of MMO's. It has generated more player base (i.e. introduced fresh people to MMO) than previouly thought possible. With a market share of 50%+ across the major MMO titles (source: www.mmogchart.com), there is no way that SOE will allow to let the potential $$$ to silde. it can be debated if WoW is currently hemorrhaging subscribers and in what amounts (I'll just assume there are and the peole leaving are looking for a new game to try). Even if it's a small fraction, it's still a considerable amount of people. SWG has about 1.5% share of the same market (same source as above). If I am a SOE exec., i would seriously look at the possibility of WoW-ify-ing (trans: to make your current game play like WoW and appeal to current WoW patrons) my game and hope to attract the people leaving WoW in search of something new. From the point of $$$, even if SOE have to lose a fraction of the 1.5% in SWG to attract the possibility of a fraction of the 50% from WoW, it's an oppertunity they can not miss! How does that sounds for an excuse? hehe
Sure.
However I think a few things are overlooked. What made WoW so big? Was it just the gameplay? What made the gameplay really that much different from every other linear game? However, WoW had reliable customer service, few if any bugs, and they were willing to stand behind their products, not consistently change them.
If SWG had followed these 3 principles before they talked about content, then they would've challenged WoW, easily.
Nicely stated! I for one will not pay any of my hard earned cash to $OE.. they would first have to have a major administration change, and a policy change on how they treat their customers..
Here's an interesting point: before I started playing SWG, which was December 2003, I had heard so little about it that I had somewhat written it off because I had heard so very little advertising or "quality buzz". Also, thoughout my time playing SWG, which was up until just before the Combat Upgrade, I still did not see much advertising. It was not until some time after the Combat Upgrade that I began to notice quite a bit of advertising. Once the New Game Enhancements hit, it seems I see advertising for the game all over the place.
It strikes me that if they had kept the game the way it was pre-CU (even post-CU), and plowed the kind of advertising money into it we see now, only do it then, there would be quite a few more people playing it.
I was playing SWG when WoW was in beta and numerous SWG vets got in on it and reported back on the game. The consensus seemed to be, "WoW is cool. It's more limited than SWG, fewer bugs, and it seems SWG has kind of stagnated lately. Also, dev response to player requests for fixes and some balance don't fill me with a sense of confidence. It seems SWG has an uncertain future." Even so,my guild lost only 1 player to WoW, and he had connections with some major people working on WoW (so I wrote that off as a "casualty due to a great opportunity to have input on a new game).
Excellent editorial...sums the situation up nicely...
Originally posted by SinisterCB /standing ovationDoes anyone think they've learned their lesson? Will they have classic servers? Doubtful
No...we'll see the game closed before we see classic servers...doing that would mean they were admitting they were wrong...and they've alienated so many of their subscribers that even if they did the subscriber numbers would never be even what they were last summer after the CU hit.
I joined after the CU hit...mid summer 2005...it quickly became THE one game I was playing...I even bought a second account so I could bring along a doctor to heal me and my groups. I started to get my guild interested in joining...they were slowly starting to play...then the NGE hit...and not a single one of us stayed. That's a perfect example of word of mouth advertising. They just don't realise that it works both ways...people joined before due to word of mouth...now they stay away due to word of mouth. Word of Mouth is the way people find out about games...they may read reviews...they may check out screenshots and videos...but they always...ALWAYS end up going to someone they know to find out if the game is good or not. Word of Mouth can make a game great or break it in two...for SWG...it's the latter.
I never experienced SWG before the CU..I enjoyed post CU SWG quite a bit...but I have no doubt that a pre-CU server would be very popular...and I would probably go back to try to play it if they had one. I say this because I hear all the people demanding a Pre-CU server all the time...yep...that's Word of Mouth again...
How could they have increased subscriber numbers after the CU? -Fix the bugs...quit overbalancing things... -implement the GCW how the subscribers wanted it... -make the start of the game more newbie friendly...
that right there would have brought in a lot of people into the game without having to redefine the gameplay.
Too bad they didn't listen to their subscribers...instead they chose to listen to non-subscriber focus groups and their accountants...
All those highly paid Sony employees and none of them has this kind of common sense? It's no wonder people are swearing off of SOE, both now and for the future.
I was in SWG from the start, towards the end (CU in my case) I had 5 active accounts. My friends all combined had another 20. As soon as CU hit all those accounts went dead. Sad thing is none of us would have even bothered with WoW if the CU never hit. We had been in the beta for WoW for sometime and it just didnt do it for us like PreCU SWG.
However I think a few things are overlooked. What made WoW so big? Was it just the gameplay? What made the gameplay really that much different from every other linear game? However, WoW had reliable customer service, few if any bugs, and they were willing to stand behind their products, not consistently change them.
That's part of it, but not all of it. WoW was & is physically gorgeous in sight and sound, easy to understand and easy to play, and based on a series of prior games that people actually played and liked. In exchange for a fixed toon skeleton and limited cosmetic choices, you get rock solid characters and animations. And the game has a great sense of humor. SOE goes on and on about "fun" in every dreary announcement. Blizzard rarely talks about "fun" because they are busy actually DELIVERING fun.
Now in fairness WoW probably has as many complaining players as SWG has. But that's out of more than SEVENTY times as many customers!
Originally posted by iceman00 Originally posted by Squidi Old news. Maybe this article could've had some value SIX MONTHS ago, but at this late stage in the game, it is little more than a grudge. You want to write something about SWG, why not send someone in there to write about the state of the game TODAY, not SIX MONTHS ago. Just in case you missed it, SIX MONTHS ago. Even in the real world, six months is old news. Just become some whiney vets still carry that grudge long past its expiration date (and look at how mature they are about it) does NOT make it relevant. It's just pandering, plain and simple.
Write about the current state of the game. Hell, if you want, I'll do it. Just GET OVER IT ALREADY. A public editorial is not the place to play out an ages old grudge.
To be honest I was waiting for when you would post your fanboiness. Good to see ya Squidi.
However, if you actually read the editorial, you'll notice it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAMEPLAY PER SE, but rather the reasons why the gameplay was changed. Nowhere did I criticize the iconic ideas or the FPS stuff. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. However, I've yet to see an editorial here (or anyone in these forums) actually crystalizing and giving a summa of the points I made.
Don't get all upset because an editorial slams your game. :-p
First, nice editorial Iceman00, I learn and enjoy the reading.
Second, I understand Squidi post and he made a point about 95% of you are failing to grasp, yes he is angry, he is outraged, he is defending the holy ground. However, past this emotional outburst, he pinpoint that, from a GAMING point of view, gameplay wise, your editorial is worth nothing.
So, yes I enjoy your reading, yes I actually like and think your editorial is good and pertinent. However, from purely a player point of view, your editorial could have said Smedley is about to be father and it wouldn't have been any more or less pertinent.
I am looking forward to read more editorials from you, as a Game Designer myself, not as a player. Nor as a bruised and hurted player either (this made them a LOT of good). Was your editorial good? No, it was brilliant! It show MMORPG stuff, some reality, some decisions and this help can be read for learning by any wanna-be dev AND it explain a lot of WHY players quit, explain their decisions.
In the same time, I want to support Squidi, because as a currently subscribing player, he is right, your post bring no new information about the GAME or some gameplay, it is behind the scene and rather negative. I could easily see myself in Squidi's place, but I never like this game to start with! But try to explain why SSI died just to see my reaction? I can promise you not to use the biggest nails as I crucified you!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I think the other thing to think about with the success of WOW, is how many of those playing it never played a MMORPG before. Of all the people that I know still playing the game, almost all of them never ever played a MMORPG before. I have just a handful of people I know playing it that are essentially FPS type of players who've also played some SWG in the past.
That's it.
I know a couple bus loads of people, hell probably subway car loads of people who are MMORPG vets who played it for sometime and don't anymore. Pretty much why I question their 6.5 million number and wonder if that's the number of units sold rather than the number of current subs that they have.
Anyhow, suffice to say I don't think I know any MMORPG vet who is still playing WOW.
Point being I think WOW got a lot of vets to try it, but has hooked a lot of MMORPG virgins into the genre. Just my opinion.
Comments
I beta tested and then went on to play SWG until the release of the NGE. It used to be my favorite game by far. It's a shame to see how it is now and even worse that they(SOE/LA) seem absolutely blind to it all. Nobody wanted a WoW clone, we were largely happy with what we had.
Yes, there needed to be a focus on the GCW, DOTs needed to be addressed, more viable armor options outside of composite, insanely powerful doctor buffs, etc. Addressing those issues alone would've alleviated many issues. What we got instead were two completely differing combat systems, each leading to more subscription losses for SOE/LA.
I've resubscribed a few times to see if I can bear to play it, and I can't. Now I'm looking at my next game(Vanguard) possibly running into similar issues with them bringing SOE in as co-publisher and seemingly revamping many features to become more mainstream.
McQuaid from Sigil, like the SWG devs, seem to be unwilling to be able to admit they were wrong on any issues. If SWG could suck it up and go back to what we enjoyed playing, I know at least 20+ people who would gladly resubscribe. Imagine that on a large scale...
Oh I agree the Pre-CU was revolutionary. And I was an ardent fan of it, and still am. However my focus was more based upon the reason why SOE/LA/your mother/ whoever it was that decided to make the changed.
Please don't mis-understand my intent on comment number 3. I was merely wanted to state that I felt that if SOE / LA had managed Pre-CU SWG better than it had, that it could have easily done much better in subscription. I also firmly believe if the game had a truly developed GCW, the way most fans of Star Wars and the game had invisioned [in many ways I think this is what many really meant when some said that wanted more of a Star Wars fell] it might have even competed quite well with WoW.
The worst thing about all of this? No-one in the industy seems to be listening.
A real point here, that seems to get lost in all the side discussion, is the very real fact that Linear has won over Sandbox style of MMO. This has set the industry back about 6 years in my opinion. The "WoW effect" has single-handedly caused the sex change of SWG from an open-ended sandbox, to a sick, perverted, half-breed of a Linear crossover.
I just can't understand why developers hate sand-box games so much. Sandbox games are what the ultimate MMO is supposed to be, not linear.... not cooky-cutter... these types of MMO's can never simulate an open-ended world with the freedoms that sandbox games can. This linear crap that the "WoW effect" has brought has perverted the industry away from sand-box style games... as proof, one only needs to look at the games currently in development on the MMO horizion to see that there are zero sandbox MMO's even on the drawing board.
The next company to create a sandbox MMO will get my money, and lots of it.
Also, there needs to be more space-based MMO's (EVE doesn't really count, it's more of an RTS-MMORPG)... an MMO that ties the space game into the ground game (instead of two seperate entity's like SWG [unfortunatly] did) ... personally, I hate this cartoony fantasy crap that's out their right now. I hope we see a shift in the next generation of MMO's towards space-based settings.
I think we're entering a "dark age" in MMO history, where nothing of substance is being created, no real quality, no depth, no breadth.... and no end in sight.
Well said. It seems today in alot of businesses it's all about getting the new buyer and forgot about the current users.
hmmm, perhaps i should start a gaming site, i've been saying this since October-November when the first rumors about the NGE were starting to circulate.
i have started at least 5 threads on the Nazi boards saying exactly this, and all have been deleted rather quickly.
SWG ADDICT...clean since the NGE
Nice article!!!
Sums up what peolple have been screaming about for months. It is nice to see it in such a highlighted state, on a website that has a dedicated MMO fan base. Lets hope other MMORPGs listen to what has/is being said.
Srato Ed: SWG,EQ,EQII,EVE,GW,GWF,WOW
I loved Pre CU SWG (I loved pre holocron SWG even more) it was a virtual world that I loved to loose myself in. To this day I compare every MMO I play to SWG. And all come up short. Unfortunatly the SWG I remeber is no longer, and most likely will never exist again.
Had SWG not had the CU or NGE, I'd still be playing, and I'd still be paying SOE a monthly subscription fee.
But I am still searchign for that game to replace classic SWG if a developer manages to recreate that world, I'd sign up in an instant.
Once they changed and made it evident their intention was to get away from this type of game, I was pretty much gone for good.
How many Vets remember what happened when the CU came out???
There was a gathering in Theed of players complaining about the Combat Upgrade and how no one wanted it! Remember what SOE did?
THEY BOOTED US ALL OUT OF THEED! CLOSED THE CITY TO EVERYONE.. BANNED ANY GATHERINGS AND EVEN BOOTED PAYING CUSTOMERS OFF THE GAME WHO VOICED THEIR COMPLAINTS.
Is it me or does SOE need some serious customer relations training?
Great article.
Now if you don't mind, I'm going to go back to dreaming about PU13.
SOE is doing the same damn thing to EQ2...and thus I have now quit playing that as well.
Sony, in all honesty, you are never getting my money again. I don't care if it's a pair of headphones.
Joined - July 2004
Very well writen article and exacly what I've been trying to get through to $OE. Glad to see that someone with the tools of greater influince shares my logic
SWG killed my inner child
Top Ten Most Misused Words/Phrases in MMO Industry...
Sure.
However I think a few things are overlooked. What made WoW so big? Was it just the gameplay? What made the gameplay really that much different from every other linear game? However, WoW had reliable customer service, few if any bugs, and they were willing to stand behind their products, not consistently change them.
If SWG had followed these 3 principles before they talked about content, then they would've challenged WoW, easily.
Here's an interesting point: before I started playing SWG, which was December 2003, I had heard so little about it that I had somewhat written it off because I had heard so very little advertising or "quality buzz". Also, thoughout my time playing SWG, which was up until just before the Combat Upgrade, I still did not see much advertising. It was not until some time after the Combat Upgrade that I began to notice quite a bit of advertising. Once the New Game Enhancements hit, it seems I see advertising for the game all over the place.
It strikes me that if they had kept the game the way it was pre-CU (even post-CU), and plowed the kind of advertising money into it we see now, only do it then, there would be quite a few more people playing it.
I was playing SWG when WoW was in beta and numerous SWG vets got in on it and reported back on the game. The consensus seemed to be, "WoW is cool. It's more limited than SWG, fewer bugs, and it seems SWG has kind of stagnated lately. Also, dev response to player requests for fixes and some balance don't fill me with a sense of confidence. It seems SWG has an uncertain future." Even so,my guild lost only 1 player to WoW, and he had connections with some major people working on WoW (so I wrote that off as a "casualty due to a great opportunity to have input on a new game).
/standing ovation
Does anyone think they've learned their lesson? Will they have classic servers? Doubtful
"I'm not a racist...I only hate stupid people..."-SinisterCB
Very good read!
Arrogance, ugh you would think the japanese would have learned after world war II arrogance got them nowhere.
Saidee
____________
Excellent editorial...sums the situation up nicely...
No...we'll see the game closed before we see classic servers...doing that would mean they were admitting they were wrong...and they've alienated so many of their subscribers that even if they did the subscriber numbers would never be even what they were last summer after the CU hit.
I joined after the CU hit...mid summer 2005...it quickly became THE one game I was playing...I even bought a second account so I could bring along a doctor to heal me and my groups. I started to get my guild interested in joining...they were slowly starting to play...then the NGE hit...and not a single one of us stayed. That's a perfect example of word of mouth advertising. They just don't realise that it works both ways...people joined before due to word of mouth...now they stay away due to word of mouth. Word of Mouth is the way people find out about games...they may read reviews...they may check out screenshots and videos...but they always...ALWAYS end up going to someone they know to find out if the game is good or not. Word of Mouth can make a game great or break it in two...for SWG...it's the latter.
I never experienced SWG before the CU..I enjoyed post CU SWG quite a bit...but I have no doubt that a pre-CU server would be very popular...and I would probably go back to try to play it if they had one. I say this because I hear all the people demanding a Pre-CU server all the time...yep...that's Word of Mouth again...
How could they have increased subscriber numbers after the CU?
-Fix the bugs...quit overbalancing things...
-implement the GCW how the subscribers wanted it...
-make the start of the game more newbie friendly...
that right there would have brought in a lot of people into the game without having to redefine the gameplay.
Too bad they didn't listen to their subscribers...instead they chose to listen to non-subscriber focus groups and their accountants...
Kevin Tierney has provided a perfect summation.
All those highly paid Sony employees and none of them has this kind of common sense? It's no wonder people are swearing off of SOE, both now and for the future.
This is a great article!
I was in SWG from the start, towards the end (CU in my case) I had 5 active accounts. My friends all combined had another 20. As soon as CU hit all those accounts went dead. Sad thing is none of us would have even bothered with WoW if the CU never hit. We had been in the beta for WoW for sometime and it just didnt do it for us like PreCU SWG.
Now in fairness WoW probably has as many complaining players as SWG has. But that's out of more than SEVENTY times as many customers!
To be honest I was waiting for when you would post your fanboiness.
Good to see ya Squidi.
However, if you actually read the editorial, you'll notice it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAMEPLAY PER SE, but rather the reasons why the gameplay was changed. Nowhere did I criticize the iconic ideas or the FPS stuff. Been there, done that, got the T shirt. However, I've yet to see an editorial here (or anyone in these forums) actually crystalizing and giving a summa of the points I made.
Don't get all upset because an editorial slams your game. :-p
First, nice editorial Iceman00, I learn and enjoy the reading.
Second, I understand Squidi post and he made a point about 95% of you are failing to grasp, yes he is angry, he is outraged, he is defending the holy ground. However, past this emotional outburst, he pinpoint that, from a GAMING point of view, gameplay wise, your editorial is worth nothing.
So, yes I enjoy your reading, yes I actually like and think your editorial is good and pertinent. However, from purely a player point of view, your editorial could have said Smedley is about to be father and it wouldn't have been any more or less pertinent.
I am looking forward to read more editorials from you, as a Game Designer myself, not as a player. Nor as a bruised and hurted player either (this made them a LOT of good). Was your editorial good? No, it was brilliant! It show MMORPG stuff, some reality, some decisions and this help can be read for learning by any wanna-be dev AND it explain a lot of WHY players quit, explain their decisions.
In the same time, I want to support Squidi, because as a currently subscribing player, he is right, your post bring no new information about the GAME or some gameplay, it is behind the scene and rather negative. I could easily see myself in Squidi's place, but I never like this game to start with! But try to explain why SSI died just to see my reaction? I can promise you not to use the biggest nails as I crucified you!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
That's it.
I know a couple bus loads of people, hell probably subway car loads of people who are MMORPG vets who played it for sometime and don't anymore. Pretty much why I question their 6.5 million number and wonder if that's the number of units sold rather than the number of current subs that they have.
Anyhow, suffice to say I don't think I know any MMORPG vet who is still playing WOW.
Point being I think WOW got a lot of vets to try it, but has hooked a lot of MMORPG virgins into the genre. Just my opinion.
whats funny is there was a thread or two on the SWG forums discussing this article....of course they were removed now
....can't have anything ill spoken of the game still. Yeah, SOE will not get another dime off me for any games.