Not quite as big of a gap as the 7.7 it gives Eve but still #1. Personally I think the average score of 91.5% is a little more telling.
I'm skeptical because Eve Online I believe is a very good game, one which has attracted people by word of mouth. But its one that doesn't appeal to everyone and this is an important point. People who aren't interested in that type of game will give it low rankings, whereby a game like WoW which is universally appealling will get an average of higher rankings. Additionally, looking at the rankings by magazines this shows the same thing. For example, gamespot give Eve Online 66%, thats one reviewer. Now take the ranking here, and its rating by a lot more people is higher. Now was that 66% a good rating if a lot of users are ranking it a lot higher?
At the end of the day its all about taste. If you have a number of quality cheeses, the mild one which a lot of tasters to the cheese may like and a strong cheese which not so many like but nevertheless gains its fans, you can't say the mild cheese is better. The only thing you can say is that the mild cheese is liked more. WoW maybe widely liked as a mild cheese, but Eve Online maybe also a good cheese but just isn't liked by so many.
Trust me, EVE didn't attract people with word of mouth. the EVE online free trial has been advertised in about every website on the web dedicated games.
I hadn't seen that website before, but according to the website its nowhere the #1 rated or reviewed game. If you mean #1 rated or reviewed mmo then that is something different.
I do and stated so in a previous post. By the way for those unfamiliar with GameRankings.com it takes all the ratings/reviews from sites such as Gamespot and magazines like Computer Gaming Monthly and PC Gamer and gives it one overall score. C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
Actually thats not entirely true. Reviewers will in most cases still stay realistic. they really won't give a high rating to a bad game, I don't know who the heck brough that fairy tale to this world that all gaming sites are corrupt, but its simply not true.
Not quite as big of a gap as the 7.7 it gives Eve but still #1. Personally I think the average score of 91.5% is a little more telling.
I'm skeptical because Eve Online I believe is a very good game, one which has attracted people by word of mouth. But its one that doesn't appeal to everyone and this is an important point. People who aren't interested in that type of game will give it low rankings, whereby a game like WoW which is universally appealling will get an average of higher rankings. Additionally, looking at the rankings by magazines this shows the same thing. For example, gamespot give Eve Online 66%, thats one reviewer. Now take the ranking here, and its rating by a lot more people is higher. Now was that 66% a good rating if a lot of users are ranking it a lot higher?
At the end of the day its all about taste. If you have a number of quality cheeses, the mild one which a lot of tasters to the cheese may like and a strong cheese which not so many like but nevertheless gains its fans, you can't say the mild cheese is better. The only thing you can say is that the mild cheese is liked more. WoW maybe widely liked as a mild cheese, but Eve Online maybe also a good cheese but just isn't liked by so many.
If that review of EVE-Online dates back to the release (May 2003), it is both appropriate and deserved. EVE had serious issues at the time, and should not have been released in that form. The game was not, at least in my opinion, actually suitable for release until December 2003. That would be why most magazine-type reviews are as low, while newer reviews (such as player reviews on MMORPG.com) tend to be higher.
Which is actually quite impressive, if you think about it. Few MMOGs even survive a launch which was as abysmal as EVE's, and none have come back to the same level of success. A large part of this can be attributed to CCP repurchasing publishing rights from Simon & Schuster Interactive (which did an atrocious job of marketing the game and folded in late 2003) and marketing it quite well.
I hadn't seen that website before, but according to the website its nowhere the #1 rated or reviewed game. If you mean #1 rated or reviewed mmo then that is something different.
I do and stated so in a previous post. By the way for those unfamiliar with GameRankings.com it takes all the ratings/reviews from sites such as Gamespot and magazines like Computer Gaming Monthly and PC Gamer and gives it one overall score. C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
I don't play WoW. I didn't like it when it came out, and I especially don't like it now that its 100% raiding outside of the xp grind. I can see how people like it, though. You login and you can actually XP, gain gold, do whatever, and enjoy yourself until the raiding begins. Unlike any other game out there that expects you to hunt other specific classes down just to xp or have fun. I don't get why people hate WoW so much. It really is a decent game, considering the other garbage that is out there. I wish more devs would take note of certain WoW aspects. No, WoW endgame isn't great, ok it sucks, but at least they got the grind part right.
Originally posted by brostyn I don't play WoW. I didn't like it when it came out, and I especially don't like it now that its 100% raiding outside of the xp grind. I can see how people like it, though. You login and you can actually XP, gain gold, do whatever, and enjoy yourself until the raiding begins. Unlike any other game out there that expects you to hunt other specific classes down just to xp or have fun. I don't get why people hate WoW so much. It really is a decent game, considering the other garbage that is out there. I wish more devs would take note of certain WoW aspects. No, WoW endgame isn't great, ok it sucks, but at least they got the grind part right.
interesting commentary, has both pros and cons.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by boognish75 I play wow..once in a gr8 while,..only if my friends r on it, i cant feel immersed in it, as it just doesnt have any real feel to it to me anyway, its fun for awhile, but i tire of it because like i said i cant get ''into'' it, it might be the toony chars and everything is sooo...baloony? Or it may bne the storyline or lack of it,...i am not trying to put it down but i have to say eq2 makes me feel in there world as it has a more real look to it, and the story lines branch out and taker you all over, i think that is a more mature game for older people and wow is for teens and adolescents...all this is just my opinion though...but thats how i feel.
interesting opinion. i understand how lack of immersion can throw a game, especially if you are playing with just limited time. overall though, i think i pretty much agree with your opinions as to why wow's ratings are sinking on this site, the downside to the game if you will.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by brostyn I don't play WoW. I didn't like it when it came out, and I especially don't like it now that its 100% raiding outside of the xp grind. I can see how people like it, though. You login and you can actually XP, gain gold, do whatever, and enjoy yourself until the raiding begins. Unlike any other game out there that expects you to hunt other specific classes down just to xp or have fun. I don't get why people hate WoW so much. It really is a decent game, considering the other garbage that is out there. I wish more devs would take note of certain WoW aspects. No, WoW endgame isn't great, ok it sucks, but at least they got the grind part right.
Again intresting comments. I would like to put out there to anyone reading this and intrested in buying WOW. WOW is a fun game, I've played it andmy brother plays it(ALL the time), but to be INTO the game you must pretty much play ALL the time. It is based many on raiding and raiding alone. Not to say that you can't play it as a casual game, but if you want to be really into the game just be prepared to give up many-a-nights raiding, gaining DKP, etc. Thats just one of the reasons that I quit the game. Not to say it isnt a good game though.
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced.- Frank Zappa
Originally posted by duncan1745 Death at 60 and ruin of war. I loved wow. I became a guild master of over 150 people. The moment I turned 60 it all went downhill. I've done everything but to do groupings with others to get into dungeons. OR THE WORSE PART - Playing in the battlegrounds - FLAG. OMG, two times I was bored with it. Sigh. I have created alts but all seems rehashed. Done that, been there. When the game first begin, we attacked regions and horde groups surprised us in attacked inside our towns. We did raids and the horde responded immediately. Now, there are no constant little battle ground fightings. Rarely are there sneak attacks of large groups upon alliance cities. We had creted a whole world defense network. When an area was attacked, we responded. That's all but over now. AND ANOTHER GUILD KILLER: With the Raid Dungeon - prizes, Guilds have been created solely to gather 60 levels to collect all the good drops. Everytime a person hits 60 in their family guild, they leave and join one of these groups. The regular RP guilds are now just a growing field for the 60's that after we've helped them, tended to them, guided them, they just leave for the great drops of armor and weapons. It has destroyed the RP in so many of our groups. We no longer have the big horde attacks at anytime. Our 60's leave us for 60 only raid groups. There are no more lands. Only battlefields are the Flag and tag you're it kind of battlefields. And now this new expansion - way tooooo late and too little. The characters look even more cartoonish. Too little too late. It's a great game until 60, less great with the launching of flag battlegrounds.
you bring up a good point about world pvp and the battlegrounds. on hyjal, there were a number of enemies which we fought on a regular basis. seems that if we invaded their lands or they invaded ours, the same people from both sides would show up and fight for an hour or more. i bet about a quarter of the fighting was actually in the water at booty bay. the rest would be pretty much at crossroads or sentinel hill.
hadn't really looked at it in the light you put it -- how the BGs spelled the death of the outdoor pvp as it existed.
also a good point about the lvl 60 - raid only groups. but honestly, what else IS there to do if you keep playing the game? still, maybe one day someone will drop pardo and kaplan and get some real talent there (i doubt they'll ever get any of the blizzard north team back though).
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by robbykl1415 Originally posted by brostyn I don't play WoW. I didn't like it when it came out, and I especially don't like it now that its 100% raiding outside of the xp grind. I can see how people like it, though. You login and you can actually XP, gain gold, do whatever, and enjoy yourself until the raiding begins. Unlike any other game out there that expects you to hunt other specific classes down just to xp or have fun. I don't get why people hate WoW so much. It really is a decent game, considering the other garbage that is out there. I wish more devs would take note of certain WoW aspects. No, WoW endgame isn't great, ok it sucks, but at least they got the grind part right.
Again intresting comments. I would like to put out there to anyone reading this and intrested in buying WOW. WOW is a fun game, I've played it andmy brother plays it(ALL the time), but to be INTO the game you must pretty much play ALL the time. It is based many on raiding and raiding alone. Not to say that you can't play it as a casual game, but if you want to be really into the game just be prepared to give up many-a-nights raiding, gaining DKP, etc. Thats just one of the reasons that I quit the game. Not to say it isnt a good game though. to caveat on this line of thought, i'd like to add --
if you only play for a little while each month OR you only play a game for 1-2 months and then move on (just because you get bored with games easily, and you might come back to each game a year or so later); then wow could be interesting for you.
you can level to 60 easily, it's pretty much a no brainer. if you're not going to be there a long time (hence not part of some nonstop raiding (pve and bg/pvp) guild); then, you can try out nonstandard talent builds and enjoy those little used spells and powers. also, you could make a horde and an alliance toon, and up until probably high 20s/low 30s, you won't be running into the same areas/missions as the opposing faction. so for a good chunk of your leveling, you'll be seeing fairly unique/new lands and such.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by Phus I share many of the same sentiments. Playing on a PVP server for the entirety of my stay in Wow was always an aspect of the "wartime feel" that I've enjoyed, mostly before I had a 60 (or two). That constant paranoia of maybe there's a Smurf-rogue right behind me just waiting for me to tag some mob so they'd get an easy kill.
Very fun.
But as progression is demanding, gear becomes a necessity. You find these huge guilds, people stuck in with eachother not out of a sense of comradery, grinding these huge dungeons for the soul purpose to fuel their need for better gear, which in turn provides them more firepower to kill people/mobs/whatever.
The main concept we lack here is substance. Obviously when leveling, one should be at least mildy excited to take part in any kind of interaction within the world of warcraft, be it from just mere quests to getting rid of a few pesky opposing faction players killing the same mobs as you. But what Bliz messed up on, in my opinion, is the ability to keep the player interested in actually playing his/her character, reguardless of the server type, instead of making it a grind to get the best gear to kill as efficiently as possible. War is brutal, yes, and acknowledgement of it being part of the name of the game is clear, but war is interesting and complex; not taking one flag from one base to another. Given the trend in how many WoW players are leaving for other games, it would not surprise me if the expansion doesn't do as well as Bliz expects it to.
As for BGs, if I wanted to play capture the flag or an assault-like game I'd play a fps.
well-spoken, good points, i agree and empathize on many of them. having to grind the same instances again and again sort of ruins any immersion you might've had.
the part i've highlighted in red should be a concern to the powers behind blizzard. i know a number of wc3 mods that take quite a bit more strategy and put the war into warcraft, a hundred times moreso than any of the battlegrounds.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I hadn't seen that website before, but according to the website its nowhere the #1 rated or reviewed game. If you mean #1 rated or reviewed mmo then that is something different.
I do and stated so in a previous post. By the way for those unfamiliar with GameRankings.com it takes all the ratings/reviews from sites such as Gamespot and magazines like Computer Gaming Monthly and PC Gamer and gives it one overall score.
C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies are irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was. Second take note of when both games came out. Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies is irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was. Second take note of when both games came out. Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
i certainly don't know you, but i know the troll (and his buddy who has probably already sided with him) that you're replying to. in a nutshell, it doesn't matter what you say, ever; why? because he's never wrong (in his mind). he'll pick a completely asinine side of a debate, which really has nothing to do with the question at hand, and then act like it's completely pertinent and you're a fool for not bowing at his (lack of) logic.
just keep in mind, the guy you're debating with, also believes that it's cool to crash a memorial and then make a movie mocking the person's real life death. but that's another story from another day.
in summary, you'll find yourself wondernig "what the hell is this guy talking about" more often than not if you continue to reply to his posts. and i'm sure it won't take much figuring out to see who his *friend* is either. they both take bizarre sides in debates.
but, back to the topic at hand. this site is kinda about individual opinions and reviews upon a plethora of games. if the people who visited this site WANTED to know what the paid-to-review people thought about games; then, i think they would not bother to have made accounts on this site. you don't have to be a member in order to view the forums and reviews on this site.
so bringing up what the paid-to-review/professional/whatever you want to call them, site have to say, or how they rate games, is really neither here nor there. this is where folks who play these games come to express THEIR opinions.
don't get in a debate with a brilliant person who only quotes numbers and points to what other people have to say and has no opinion of her/his own. it's just a troll that has nothing better to do. stick with the people who are filling out reviews and actually expressing their own opinions and experiences with various games.
that's just my opinion though, mileage may vary.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by porgie
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies is irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was. Second take note of when both games came out. Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
i certainly don't know you, but i know the troll (and his buddy who has probably already sided with him) that you're replying to. in a nutshell, it doesn't matter what you say, ever; why? because he's never wrong (in his mind). he'll pick a completely asinine side of a debate, which really has nothing to do with the question at hand, and then act like it's completely pertinent and you're a fool for not bowing at his (lack of) logic.
just keep in mind, the guy you're debating with, also believes that it's cool to crash a memorial and then make a movie mocking the person's real life death. but that's another story from another day.
in summary, you'll find yourself wondernig "what the hell is this guy talking about" more often than not if you continue to reply to his posts. and i'm sure it won't take much figuring out to see who his *friend* is either. they both take bizarre sides in debates.
but, back to the topic at hand. this site is kinda about individual opinions and reviews upon a plethora of games. if the people who visited this site WANTED to know what the paid-to-review people thought about games; then, i think they would not bother to have made accounts on this site. you don't have to be a member in order to view the forums and reviews on this site.
so bringing up what the paid-to-review/professional/whatever you want to call them, site have to say, or how they rate games, is really neither here nor there. this is where folks who play these games come to express THEIR opinions.
don't get in a debate with a brilliant person who only quotes numbers and points to what other people have to say and has no opinion of her/his own. it's just a troll that has nothing better to do. stick with the people who are filling out reviews and actually expressing their own opinions and experiences with various games.
that's just my opinion though, mileage may vary.
Alright. Point taken. Thanks for the heads up.
I come here because I know that these are true MMO players. That's why I would trust someone here more than I would a paid "professional" game reviewer anyday. People who have been playing MMO's for a while know what they're looking for. And that's why I think the ratings system on this site is more in line to what I believe.
Thanks for the warning though. I'll quit responding to him.
I hadn't seen that website before, but according to the website its nowhere the #1 rated or reviewed game. If you mean #1 rated or reviewed mmo then that is something different.
I do and stated so in a previous post. By the way for those unfamiliar with GameRankings.com it takes all the ratings/reviews from sites such as Gamespot and magazines like Computer Gaming Monthly and PC Gamer and gives it one overall score.
C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
If someone states their opinion then that is fact to them.
I don't think WoW is a game developed for the hardcore MMO players. It's not what people in that group are looking for.
That's why to people on this site DAoC is a better game than WoW. For people like us that is fact.
============================= It all seems so stupid It makes me want to give up But why should I give up When it all seems so stupid
This topic is still going? Can we please let it die. Here this will finish this thread in one post:
Do numbers make a game good? No. Do site ratings matter? No. Is WoW a good game? Yes. Is WoW better then Eve? No. Is Eve better then WoW? No. Is WoW better then DAOC? No. Is DAOC better then WoW? No. Is WoW losing members? Yes. ALL mmorpgs lose members whether they admit it or not. When it comes down to losing subscriptions. It's not a question "if", but "when". Has this thread gone on long pass its prime? Yes. Now please let it die.
PS: Damian why are you still posting here? So far not one of your post has had any merit, or point to them. Like your above post. What were you thinking when you wrote that?
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Originally posted by Roin This topic is still going? Can we please let it die. Here this will finish this thread in one post:
Do numbers make a game good? No. Do site ratings matter? No. Is WoW a good game? Yes. Is WoW better then Eve? No. Is Eve better then WoW? No. Is WoW better then DAOC? No. Is DAOC better then WoW? No. Is WoW losing members? Yes. ALL mmorpgs lose members whether they admit it or not. When it comes down to losing subscriptions. It's not a question "if", but "when". Has this thread gone on long pass its prime? Yes. Now please let it die.
PS: Damian why are you still posting here? So far not one of your post has had any merit, or point to them. Like your above post. What were you thinking when you wrote that?
all ur base r belong to us.
if i say that, does it make it true?
edited to add poll.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I hadn't seen that website before, but according to the website its nowhere the #1 rated or reviewed game. If you mean #1 rated or reviewed mmo then that is something different.
I do and stated so in a previous post. By the way for those unfamiliar with GameRankings.com it takes all the ratings/reviews from sites such as Gamespot and magazines like Computer Gaming Monthly and PC Gamer and gives it one overall score. C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies are irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was. Second take note of when both games came out. Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too. C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies are irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was. Second take note of when both games came out. Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
Translation = I can't prove my bold claims. As for your treasure hunt, I was kind enough to bring the facts to you, if you want me to consider them kindly do the same.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies are irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was. Second take note of when both games came out. Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
Translation = I can't prove my bold claims. As for your treasure hunt, I was kind enough to bring the facts to you, if you want me to consider them kindly do the same. Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies are irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was. Second take note of when both games came out. Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
Translation = I can't prove my bold claims. As for your treasure hunt, I was kind enough to bring the facts to you, if you want me to consider them kindly do the same. Translation = I can't prove my bold claims. As for your treasure hunt, I was kind enough to bring the facts to you, if you want me to consider them kindly do the same.
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by porgie
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies is irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was. Second take note of when both games came out. Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
i certainly don't know you, but i know the troll (and his buddy who has probably already sided with him) that you're replying to. in a nutshell, it doesn't matter what you say, ever; why? because he's never wrong (in his mind). he'll pick a completely asinine side of a debate, which really has nothing to do with the question at hand, and then act like it's completely pertinent and you're a fool for not bowing at his (lack of) logic.
just keep in mind, the guy you're debating with, also believes that it's cool to crash a memorial and then make a movie mocking the person's real life death. but that's another story from another day.
in summary, you'll find yourself wondernig "what the hell is this guy talking about" more often than not if you continue to reply to his posts. and i'm sure it won't take much figuring out to see who his *friend* is either. they both take bizarre sides in debates.
but, back to the topic at hand. this site is kinda about individual opinions and reviews upon a plethora of games. if the people who visited this site WANTED to know what the paid-to-review people thought about games; then, i think they would not bother to have made accounts on this site. you don't have to be a member in order to view the forums and reviews on this site.
so bringing up what the paid-to-review/professional/whatever you want to call them, site have to say, or how they rate games, is really neither here nor there. this is where folks who play these games come to express THEIR opinions.
don't get in a debate with a brilliant person who only quotes numbers and points to what other people have to say and has no opinion of her/his own. it's just a troll that has nothing better to do. stick with the people who are filling out reviews and actually expressing their own opinions and experiences with various games.
that's just my opinion though, mileage may vary.
i certainly don't know you, but i know the troll (and his buddy who has probably already sided with him) that you're replying to. in a nutshell, it doesn't matter what you say, ever; why? because he's never wrong (in his mind). he'll pick a completely asinine side of a debate, which really has nothing to do with the question at hand, and then act like it's completely pertinent and you're a fool for not bowing at his (lack of) logic.
just keep in mind, the guy you're debating with, also believes that it's cool to crash a memorial and then make a movie mocking the person's real life death. but that's another story from another day.
in summary, you'll find yourself wondernig "what the hell is this guy talking about" more often than not if you continue to reply to his posts. and i'm sure it won't take much figuring out to see who his *friend* is either. they both take bizarre sides in debates.
but, back to the topic at hand. this site is kinda about individual opinions and reviews upon a plethora of games. if the people who visited this site WANTED to know what the paid-to-review people thought about games; then, i think they would not bother to have made accounts on this site. you don't have to be a member in order to view the forums and reviews on this site.
so bringing up what the paid-to-review/professional/whatever you want to call them, site have to say, or how they rate games, is really neither here nor there. this is where folks who play these games come to express THEIR opinions.
don't get in a debate with a brilliant person who only quotes numbers and points to what other people have to say and has no opinion of her/his own. it's just a troll that has nothing better to do. stick with the people who are filling out reviews and actually expressing their own opinions and experiences with various games.
that's just my opinion though, mileage may vary.
Another post from damian, another example of him not providing any facts to support his claims that wow can't keep subscribers and is a sinking ship. If facts make you wonder what I'm talking about I am not surprised you were confused when I enlightened you with Over One Year = 19 Months LOL (that one will stick with me for a long time).
For someone that types an awful lot you don't have much factual support for the garbage you spew.
PS. Again with the lies I never said it was cool, I said they had a right to play by the rules of the game.
Another post from damian, another example of him not providing any facts to support his claims that wow can't keep subscribers and is a sinking ship. If facts make you wonder what I'm talking about I am not surprised you were confused when I enlightened you with Over One Year = 19 Months LOL (that one will stick with me for a long time).
For someone that types an awful lot you don't have much factual support for the garbage you spew.
PS. Again with the lies I never said it was cool, I said they had a right to play by the rules of the game.
I'm just wondering, if we take the gold farmers out, how many accounts are left? :-S
I don't think Wow is such a bad game, but I think the community itself makes it a bad game *only my humble opinion* ^_^
------------------------------------------------------------ No trees were hurt while sending this message.However a Large amount of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. ------------------------------------------------------------ Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
------------------------------------------------------------ No trees were hurt while sending this message.However a Large amount of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. ------------------------------------------------------------ Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Originally posted by angelofmercy I'm just wondering, if we take the gold farmers out, how many accounts are left? :-S
I don't think Wow is such a bad game, but I think the community itself makes it a bad game *only my humble opinion* ^_^
I totaly agree. If you get in a decent guild without a ton of little kids, or immature adults for that matter...it can make for a pretty fun expierience.
There are two kinds of people in this world. People who pick their nose.. and liars.
Originally posted by Roin This topic is still going? Can we please let it die. Here this will finish this thread in one post:
Do numbers make a game good? No. Do site ratings matter? No. Is WoW a good game? Yes. Is WoW better then Eve? No. Is Eve better then WoW? No. Is WoW better then DAOC? No. Is DAOC better then WoW? No. Is WoW losing members? Yes. ALL mmorpgs lose members whether they admit it or not. When it comes down to losing subscriptions. It's not a question "if", but "when". Has this thread gone on long pass its prime? Yes. Now please let it die.
PS: Damian why are you still posting here? So far not one of your post has had any merit, or point to them. Like your above post. What were you thinking when you wrote that?
wow has alot of immature players. But so does every single mmorpg out atm. The only thing that makes wow seem worse is that there are just so many players, that theres alot of immature people. There are just as many mature players.
I've played almost every retail mmorpg on the market with the exception of FFXI(well i did try it but that was at a friends house right after it came out).
The exaggeration on forums about this issue is really just that, a exaggeration. Throughout my many different characters, on many different servers, I've been in plenty of guilds with nice people, and plenty of pugs with nice people. There are obviously idiots, and noobs throughout the entire game. But its the same as every other mmorpg.
The only way you could possibly get rid of them is to a. make it give a iq test everytime you tried to log in, or b. make the game so boring that it wouldn't attract anyone besides people who are looking for a community.
Comments
At the end of the day its all about taste. If you have a number of quality cheeses, the mild one which a lot of tasters to the cheese may like and a strong cheese which not so many like but nevertheless gains its fans, you can't say the mild cheese is better. The only thing you can say is that the mild cheese is liked more. WoW maybe widely liked as a mild cheese, but Eve Online maybe also a good cheese but just isn't liked by so many.
Trust me, EVE didn't attract people with word of mouth. the EVE online free trial has been advertised in about every website on the web dedicated games.
I hadn't seen that website before, but according to the website its nowhere the #1 rated or reviewed game. If you mean #1 rated or reviewed mmo then that is something different.
I do and stated so in a previous post. By the way for those unfamiliar with GameRankings.com it takes all the ratings/reviews from sites such as Gamespot and magazines like Computer Gaming Monthly and PC Gamer and gives it one overall score.
C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
Actually thats not entirely true. Reviewers will in most cases still stay realistic. they really won't give a high rating to a bad game, I don't know who the heck brough that fairy tale to this world that all gaming sites are corrupt, but its simply not true.
I'm skeptical because Eve Online I believe is a very good game, one which has attracted people by word of mouth. But its one that doesn't appeal to everyone and this is an important point. People who aren't interested in that type of game will give it low rankings, whereby a game like WoW which is universally appealling will get an average of higher rankings. Additionally, looking at the rankings by magazines this shows the same thing. For example, gamespot give Eve Online 66%, thats one reviewer. Now take the ranking here, and its rating by a lot more people is higher. Now was that 66% a good rating if a lot of users are ranking it a lot higher?
At the end of the day its all about taste. If you have a number of quality cheeses, the mild one which a lot of tasters to the cheese may like and a strong cheese which not so many like but nevertheless gains its fans, you can't say the mild cheese is better. The only thing you can say is that the mild cheese is liked more. WoW maybe widely liked as a mild cheese, but Eve Online maybe also a good cheese but just isn't liked by so many.
If that review of EVE-Online dates back to the release (May 2003), it is both appropriate and deserved. EVE had serious issues at the time, and should not have been released in that form. The game was not, at least in my opinion, actually suitable for release until December 2003. That would be why most magazine-type reviews are as low, while newer reviews (such as player reviews on MMORPG.com) tend to be higher.
Which is actually quite impressive, if you think about it. Few MMOGs even survive a launch which was as abysmal as EVE's, and none have come back to the same level of success. A large part of this can be attributed to CCP repurchasing publishing rights from Simon & Schuster Interactive (which did an atrocious job of marketing the game and folded in late 2003) and marketing it quite well.
I hadn't seen that website before, but according to the website its nowhere the #1 rated or reviewed game. If you mean #1 rated or reviewed mmo then that is something different.
I do and stated so in a previous post. By the way for those unfamiliar with GameRankings.com it takes all the ratings/reviews from sites such as Gamespot and magazines like Computer Gaming Monthly and PC Gamer and gives it one overall score.
C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced.-
Frank Zappa
hadn't really looked at it in the light you put it -- how the BGs spelled the death of the outdoor pvp as it existed.
also a good point about the lvl 60 - raid only groups. but honestly, what else IS there to do if you keep playing the game? still, maybe one day someone will drop pardo and kaplan and get some real talent there (i doubt they'll ever get any of the blizzard north team back though).
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
to caveat on this line of thought, i'd like to add --
if you only play for a little while each month OR you only play a game for 1-2 months and then move on (just because you get bored with games easily, and you might come back to each game a year or so later); then wow could be interesting for you.
you can level to 60 easily, it's pretty much a no brainer. if you're not going to be there a long time (hence not part of some nonstop raiding (pve and bg/pvp) guild); then, you can try out nonstandard talent builds and enjoy those little used spells and powers. also, you could make a horde and an alliance toon, and up until probably high 20s/low 30s, you won't be running into the same areas/missions as the opposing faction. so for a good chunk of your leveling, you'll be seeing fairly unique/new lands and such.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
the part i've highlighted in red should be a concern to the powers behind blizzard. i know a number of wc3 mods that take quite a bit more strategy and put the war into warcraft, a hundred times moreso than any of the battlegrounds.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I hadn't seen that website before, but according to the website its nowhere the #1 rated or reviewed game. If you mean #1 rated or reviewed mmo then that is something different.
I do and stated so in a previous post. By the way for those unfamiliar with GameRankings.com it takes all the ratings/reviews from sites such as Gamespot and magazines like Computer Gaming Monthly and PC Gamer and gives it one overall score.
C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies are irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was.
Second take note of when both games came out.
Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies is irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was.
Second take note of when both games came out.
Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
i certainly don't know you, but i know the troll (and his buddy who has probably already sided with him) that you're replying to. in a nutshell, it doesn't matter what you say, ever; why? because he's never wrong (in his mind). he'll pick a completely asinine side of a debate, which really has nothing to do with the question at hand, and then act like it's completely pertinent and you're a fool for not bowing at his (lack of) logic.
just keep in mind, the guy you're debating with, also believes that it's cool to crash a memorial and then make a movie mocking the person's real life death. but that's another story from another day.
in summary, you'll find yourself wondernig "what the hell is this guy talking about" more often than not if you continue to reply to his posts. and i'm sure it won't take much figuring out to see who his *friend* is either. they both take bizarre sides in debates.
but, back to the topic at hand. this site is kinda about individual opinions and reviews upon a plethora of games. if the people who visited this site WANTED to know what the paid-to-review people thought about games; then, i think they would not bother to have made accounts on this site. you don't have to be a member in order to view the forums and reviews on this site.
so bringing up what the paid-to-review/professional/whatever you want to call them, site have to say, or how they rate games, is really neither here nor there. this is where folks who play these games come to express THEIR opinions.
don't get in a debate with a brilliant person who only quotes numbers and points to what other people have to say and has no opinion of her/his own. it's just a troll that has nothing better to do. stick with the people who are filling out reviews and actually expressing their own opinions and experiences with various games.
that's just my opinion though, mileage may vary.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies is irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was.
Second take note of when both games came out.
Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
i certainly don't know you, but i know the troll (and his buddy who has probably already sided with him) that you're replying to. in a nutshell, it doesn't matter what you say, ever; why? because he's never wrong (in his mind). he'll pick a completely asinine side of a debate, which really has nothing to do with the question at hand, and then act like it's completely pertinent and you're a fool for not bowing at his (lack of) logic.
just keep in mind, the guy you're debating with, also believes that it's cool to crash a memorial and then make a movie mocking the person's real life death. but that's another story from another day.
in summary, you'll find yourself wondernig "what the hell is this guy talking about" more often than not if you continue to reply to his posts. and i'm sure it won't take much figuring out to see who his *friend* is either. they both take bizarre sides in debates.
but, back to the topic at hand. this site is kinda about individual opinions and reviews upon a plethora of games. if the people who visited this site WANTED to know what the paid-to-review people thought about games; then, i think they would not bother to have made accounts on this site. you don't have to be a member in order to view the forums and reviews on this site.
so bringing up what the paid-to-review/professional/whatever you want to call them, site have to say, or how they rate games, is really neither here nor there. this is where folks who play these games come to express THEIR opinions.
don't get in a debate with a brilliant person who only quotes numbers and points to what other people have to say and has no opinion of her/his own. it's just a troll that has nothing better to do. stick with the people who are filling out reviews and actually expressing their own opinions and experiences with various games.
that's just my opinion though, mileage may vary.
Alright. Point taken. Thanks for the heads up.
I come here because I know that these are true MMO players. That's why I would trust someone here more than I would a paid "professional" game reviewer anyday. People who have been playing MMO's for a while know what they're looking for. And that's why I think the ratings system on this site is more in line to what I believe.
Thanks for the warning though. I'll quit responding to him.
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
I hadn't seen that website before, but according to the website its nowhere the #1 rated or reviewed game. If you mean #1 rated or reviewed mmo then that is something different.
I do and stated so in a previous post. By the way for those unfamiliar with GameRankings.com it takes all the ratings/reviews from sites such as Gamespot and magazines like Computer Gaming Monthly and PC Gamer and gives it one overall score.
C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
If someone states their opinion then that is fact to them.
I don't think WoW is a game developed for the hardcore MMO players. It's not what people in that group are looking for.
That's why to people on this site DAoC is a better game than WoW. For people like us that is fact.
=============================
It all seems so stupid
It makes me want to give up
But why should I give up
When it all seems so stupid
Do numbers make a game good? No.
Do site ratings matter? No.
Is WoW a good game? Yes.
Is WoW better then Eve? No.
Is Eve better then WoW? No.
Is WoW better then DAOC? No.
Is DAOC better then WoW? No.
Is WoW losing members? Yes. ALL mmorpgs lose members whether they admit it or not. When it comes down to losing subscriptions. It's not a question "if", but "when".
Has this thread gone on long pass its prime? Yes. Now please let it die.
PS: Damian why are you still posting here? So far not one of your post has had any merit, or point to them. Like your above post. What were you thinking when you wrote that?
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
if i say that, does it make it true?
edited to add poll.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I hadn't seen that website before, but according to the website its nowhere the #1 rated or reviewed game. If you mean #1 rated or reviewed mmo then that is something different.
I do and stated so in a previous post. By the way for those unfamiliar with GameRankings.com it takes all the ratings/reviews from sites such as Gamespot and magazines like Computer Gaming Monthly and PC Gamer and gives it one overall score.
C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies are irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was.
Second take note of when both games came out.
Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
C'mon Pride. Please. I tried to explain this to you before.
Game review sites are there to make money. They write reviews that are geared towards the general public. The majority if you will. So, if they think that a game is going to appeal to a large number of players then they're going to give it a good score. It just makes sense, because that way more people are pleased with their reviews which means more people will keep coming back.
Let's say that a game came out that had no real artistic value to, no new ideas, no new gameplay, or not even any new ideas on an interface. But it took everything and dumbed it down so that anyone could figure it out. Most people are going to like that game. But that doesn't mean it's better than a game that has lot's of thought and complex planning behind it.
Now if a game site says that the new game sucks yet the general public goes and plays it and finds out they like their dumbed down game then they're going to think that review site sucks. And if they keep it up with game after game then people are going to quit coming back to that site.
The people who come to this site are different than the average game player. We have a lot more experience wtih MMO's on average. We expect more from an MMO. And that's the reason the WoW score is beginning to fall.
DAoC is still up on the charts. And right now FFXI is up there. I saw AO pop up there for a little while. All those games came out long before WoW. They are just better games though. They have more lifetime to them for true MMO players.
That's what this discussion is geared towards. The people at this site and our decisions in our ranking of WoW on the charts.
If you want to discuss the general public's perception of the game then why not start a different thread specific to that. Or go to a forum like IGE where there are gamers and MMO players from all experiences of playing.
I just feel like the members at this site of a higher caliber when it comes to ranking MMO's.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies are irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was.
Second take note of when both games came out.
Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
Translation = I can't prove my bold claims. As for your treasure hunt, I was kind enough to bring the facts to you, if you want me to consider them kindly do the same.
First, I find your opinion amusing on game site reviews, it is only your opinion and I would wager you don't have any facts to back up that case. Some of you people have a very hard time seperating your opinions from real world facts. By the way, you should know that Gamerankings.com also takes into account magazines as well as web sites but I digress on to point #2.
Second, since you feel that game review sites are fixed and gamer reviews are what really count let's look at the gamer reviews on Gamespot and IGN (home of the most popular MMO message boards) for DAoC and WOW. According to player reviews DAoC is an 8.3 while WOW is a 9.2! How can that be you clearly stated that DAoC was a better game! <gasp>
I have played a variety of MMO's and appreciate people's viewpoints on any of them, my only issue is with those that continue to state their opinions as fact. Lesson over.
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies are irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was.
Second take note of when both games came out.
Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
Translation = I can't prove my bold claims. As for your treasure hunt, I was kind enough to bring the facts to you, if you want me to consider them kindly do the same.
Look, I know you don't know me personally, so I'll cut you some slack. I am not the type of person to just blurt stuff out without being able to back what I say up. I'm not here to try to convince anyone one way or another.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies are irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was.
Second take note of when both games came out.
Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
Translation = I can't prove my bold claims. As for your treasure hunt, I was kind enough to bring the facts to you, if you want me to consider them kindly do the same.
Translation = I can't prove my bold claims. As for your treasure hunt, I was kind enough to bring the facts to you, if you want me to consider them kindly do the same.
I just wish that this topic would have stayed where I think it was intended to and that was in dealing with the opinions of people that visit this site. We're the ones that rank the games on this site. In this discussion game review companies is irrelevant.
But, since you think that I don't seem to know what I"m talking about. I'll send you off on a little quest to find out.
Go to the Gamespot site. While you're there check out the reviews for WoW and EQ2. Put them side by side because you're going to do a little comparison.
First, take note of who the reviewer of both games was.
Second take note of when both games came out.
Third take note of when both reviews came out.
Then I'll leave it up to you to come to your own conclusions.
Just keep in mind how long it takes to play an MMO to actually get a feel for it. Also keep in mind who was reviewing both games (the same person). Unless he's one helluva MMO player and found some way to rush through both games before writing his reviews then I would begin to think there's something going on there. And also notice something else too, what he puts EQ2 down for, he builds WoW up for.
have fun.
Oh, and I do think DAoC is a better game than WoW. For a ton of reasons. And apparently a lot of MMO players who come to this site do too.
i certainly don't know you, but i know the troll (and his buddy who has probably already sided with him) that you're replying to. in a nutshell, it doesn't matter what you say, ever; why? because he's never wrong (in his mind). he'll pick a completely asinine side of a debate, which really has nothing to do with the question at hand, and then act like it's completely pertinent and you're a fool for not bowing at his (lack of) logic.
just keep in mind, the guy you're debating with, also believes that it's cool to crash a memorial and then make a movie mocking the person's real life death. but that's another story from another day.
in summary, you'll find yourself wondernig "what the hell is this guy talking about" more often than not if you continue to reply to his posts. and i'm sure it won't take much figuring out to see who his *friend* is either. they both take bizarre sides in debates.
but, back to the topic at hand. this site is kinda about individual opinions and reviews upon a plethora of games. if the people who visited this site WANTED to know what the paid-to-review people thought about games; then, i think they would not bother to have made accounts on this site. you don't have to be a member in order to view the forums and reviews on this site.
so bringing up what the paid-to-review/professional/whatever you want to call them, site have to say, or how they rate games, is really neither here nor there. this is where folks who play these games come to express THEIR opinions.
don't get in a debate with a brilliant person who only quotes numbers and points to what other people have to say and has no opinion of her/his own. it's just a troll that has nothing better to do. stick with the people who are filling out reviews and actually expressing their own opinions and experiences with various games.
that's just my opinion though, mileage may vary.
i certainly don't know you, but i know the troll (and his buddy who has probably already sided with him) that you're replying to. in a nutshell, it doesn't matter what you say, ever; why? because he's never wrong (in his mind). he'll pick a completely asinine side of a debate, which really has nothing to do with the question at hand, and then act like it's completely pertinent and you're a fool for not bowing at his (lack of) logic.
just keep in mind, the guy you're debating with, also believes that it's cool to crash a memorial and then make a movie mocking the person's real life death. but that's another story from another day.
in summary, you'll find yourself wondernig "what the hell is this guy talking about" more often than not if you continue to reply to his posts. and i'm sure it won't take much figuring out to see who his *friend* is either. they both take bizarre sides in debates.
but, back to the topic at hand. this site is kinda about individual opinions and reviews upon a plethora of games. if the people who visited this site WANTED to know what the paid-to-review people thought about games; then, i think they would not bother to have made accounts on this site. you don't have to be a member in order to view the forums and reviews on this site.
so bringing up what the paid-to-review/professional/whatever you want to call them, site have to say, or how they rate games, is really neither here nor there. this is where folks who play these games come to express THEIR opinions.
don't get in a debate with a brilliant person who only quotes numbers and points to what other people have to say and has no opinion of her/his own. it's just a troll that has nothing better to do. stick with the people who are filling out reviews and actually expressing their own opinions and experiences with various games.
that's just my opinion though, mileage may vary.
Another post from damian, another example of him not providing any facts to support his claims that wow can't keep subscribers and is a sinking ship. If facts make you wonder what I'm talking about I am not surprised you were confused when I enlightened you with Over One Year = 19 Months LOL (that one will stick with me for a long time).
For someone that types an awful lot you don't have much factual support for the garbage you spew.
PS. Again with the lies
I never said it was cool, I said they had a right to play by the rules of the game.
Another post from damian, another example of him not providing any facts to support his claims that wow can't keep subscribers and is a sinking ship. If facts make you wonder what I'm talking about I am not surprised you were confused when I enlightened you with Over One Year = 19 Months LOL (that one will stick with me for a long time).
For someone that types an awful lot you don't have much factual support for the garbage you spew.
PS. Again with the lies
I never said it was cool, I said they had a right to play by the rules of the game.
I don't think Wow is such a bad game, but I think the community itself makes it a bad game
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Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
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Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
There are two kinds of people in this world. People who pick their nose.. and liars.
Well said (especially the PS portion).
I've played almost every retail mmorpg on the market with the exception of FFXI(well i did try it but that was at a friends house right after it came out).
The exaggeration on forums about this issue is really just that, a exaggeration. Throughout my many different characters, on many different servers, I've been in plenty of guilds with nice people, and plenty of pugs with nice people. There are obviously idiots, and noobs throughout the entire game. But its the same as every other mmorpg.
The only way you could possibly get rid of them is to a. make it give a iq test everytime you tried to log in, or b. make the game so boring that it wouldn't attract anyone besides people who are looking for a community.