All this bickering over how all the subscriptions to WoW MUST mean that it is the best mmo out there, and that the ratings are just flawed in some way because of fanboys voting down WoW and voting up the game that they play. TOO MANY OF YOU TO MENTION POSTED SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES.
So, the ratings are flawed eh? Fanboys for other games besides WOW screw up WOW's ratings, otherwise it would have the highest rating cuz look at all it's 6.5 million subs! <--- THIS is what a LOT of you are essentially saying.
And to that bunch of ridiculous nonsense, I must say this:
If WOW has 6.5+ million subs, you don't think that MORE WoW fans are on this site then say UO fans? Ofcourse there are. Look at the numbers you keep proudly pointing to! And you don't think all the bazillion WoW fanboys aren't voting WoW up with inflated numbers and voting games like UO and AC down just because they don't have as pretty of graphics? My point is that exactly. With the bazillion WoW fans as you keep pointing out, there are very likely many more WoW fans bashing other games that aren't as pretty and voting super high scores across the board for WoW. It just seems like common sense.
Let me again point this out to all you that think WoW is the bestest mmo ever...
Since when in the hell do numbers mean anything???
Does walmarts millions of customers every year mean that it is actually a "better" store then Sears or Best Buy? Because the Spice Girls sold more albums then did Van Morrison in 1998, does that mean that the Spice Girls are 10 times more talented then Van Morrison?? Britney Spears is a much better singer then is Jonny Lang?? She sold 100 times the albums, so she must be! (Even though the reviews are by far in favor of Jonny Lang, those reviews are just dope head fanboys and Britney Spears is by far better because of her # of albums sold) Uh huh.
Numbers mean Z E R O.
Nothing.
Notta.
If all you sheep would actualy use your head and judge something for what it is rather then what millions of people are screaming it is, then maybe this world would start to steer away from all the popularity flocking and towards a really accurate display of real value.
Tens of millions of people smoke. Must be GREAT! Go do it! Smoking > Not smoking!
Millions of teenage girls get pregnant every year! Must be the smart thing to do!
Millions of people drive drunk avery year. Gotta be the smart thing to do!
And Last, but certainly not least... Millions of Americans (and the majority) voted for George W Bush not only once, but twice! ... GW Bush has to be a great president!!
... Here come the flames at me (but never from a WOW fanboy since there are obviously none of those on this site... )
Originally posted by Eindrachen One quick question: How many WOW players are there in the U.S., it's "home" market, so to speak? How many in China? Europe? Those are the numbers to look at. I'm not exactly doom-saying WOW, but I'm betting its American market is sucking it big-time. Just another random pondering from my armchair. You are returned to your regularly scheduled flame-war... eh, debate.
According to MMOGChart.com there is approximately 2.5 million in the UK and NA combined and the other 4 million are in Asia.
I see the same argument over and over again - WoW is the most played MMO. Does that make it the best? A lot of people drive hondas/toyotas. Does that make them better than BMW's?
Originally posted by ke5aux I see the same argument over and over again - WoW is the most played MMO. Does that make it the best? A lot of people drive hondas/toyotas. Does that make them better than BMW's?
in the minds of idiots - yes it does.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
If all you sheep would actualy use your head and judge something for what it is rather then what millions of people are screaming it is, then maybe this world would start to steer away from all the popularity flocking and towards a really accurate display of real value. Tens of millions of people smoke. Must be GREAT! Go do it! Smoking > Not smoking! Millions of teenage girls get pregnant every year! Must be the smart thing to do! Millions of people drive drunk avery year. Gotta be the smart thing to do! And Last, but certainly not least... Millions of Americans (and the majority) voted for George W Bush not only once, but twice! ... GW Bush has to be a great president!! - Zaxx
but but but, we can't argue with the numbers~!!!
5 billion chinese are buddhist, can you deny that is the greatest religion in the world????????
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by Minsc Originally posted by Eindrachen One quick question: How many WOW players are there in the U.S., it's "home" market, so to speak? How many in China? Europe? Those are the numbers to look at. I'm not exactly doom-saying WOW, but I'm betting its American market is sucking it big-time.
According to MMOGChart.com there is approximately 2.5 million in the UK and NA combined and the other 4 million are in Asia.
I think whoever compiled that forgot about Continental Europe.
As far as I can tell WoW is still dominating the MMO market in America.
Originally posted by baff Originally posted by lomiller
Originally posted by baff PC game sales are stronger than ever. The market continues to grow.
Reread my posts with attention to the phrase “traditional retail channels”. Have you editted it? It still looks the same.
Summarized for the peanut gallery
Original poster I was responding to: WoW appears in lots of top 5 lists
Me: Those lists do not appear to be separating boxes and game cards and only track over the counter sales which are an increasingly insignificant part of the PC game market
You: PC game sales are as strong as ever!
Me: The numbers the OP is presenting don’t measure PC game sales only a diminishing segment of the PC game market.
You: PC game sales are strong
Me: Reread my previous posts. (+ a hint to where you are missing the point)
You: they look the same.
I’m commenting on PC game sales through traditional over the counter channels, you are talking total dollar value of PC games. These are two very different things, and the one does not tell you anything particularly useful about the other, which of course is the original point regarding the OP’s top 5 lists.
Since your posts so far have been completely irrelevant to the discussion points being made I will not bother to respond to you again until you get yourself together and start bringing up relevant information.
haha...comparing it to pregnant girls, religion and cars.
I see the WoW haters have officially over ruled the fanboys in being unrealistic. its simply amazing what jealousy can do to the mmorpg.com rating. now you can tell me a lot about WoW, if you like or not, but your not going to tell me City of heroes and City of villains are better games then WoW. Today is once again proven the mmorpg.com ratings are NOT based on quality. I rest my case.
Originally posted by Gameloading haha...comparing it to pregnant girls, religion and cars. I see the WoW haters have officially over ruled the fanboys in being unrealistic. its simply amazing what jealousy can do to the mmorpg.com rating. now you can tell me a lot about WoW, if you like or not, but your not going to tell me City of heroes and City of villains are better games then WoW. Today is once again proven the mmorpg.com ratings are NOT based on quality. I rest my case.
I think this was a point I made earlier in the thread. For whatever reason the irrational lovers (fanbois) are becoming outnumbered by the irrational haters. You seem to be stating that this means little. I think it means alot. Especially since Blizzard in general has always had extremely rabid fanbois.
I would say that it seems the wind is beginning to blow in a different direction and Blizzard is beginning to lose a reources they used to be able to previously depend, fanbois and good press that results from that. You can say the rating here are that meaningful in regards to quality and I won't argue nor will alot of other people. But it does indicate something. My opinoin is that Blizzard is going down a bad road that SOE blazed a few years ago and we are seeing that now. Does it mean WoW sucks by some objective criteria? Not exactly but it is an indicator of attitudes. And attitudes are extremly important.
WoW has always had its fair share of haters. Some of it sorta deserved in that WoW fanbois have been very pushy in the past. The other fanbois hate the WoW fanbois for a reason. Its all silly because they are all fanbois but there is some reason behind it. None of it is rational or backed by real facts or cogent analysis but there are reasons. The support of WoW by its fanbois is erroding, in my opinion, and some of them have turned into anti-fanbois. Thus you see the rating dropping. Its not really too late at this point for blizzard to turn things around, they think their expansion will fix things. If it does probably WoW will climb back up, as some of the people still holding out hope will start feeling good about thhings again. I don't expect this happen, the expansion won't actually address the problem most players have and so they will go from feeling bad to actual dislike. When people switch to active dislike they do not give objective ratings. They give a game they played for a year or more a 5/10. Well if you played a game that bad for a year and payed a monthly fee then you are dumb.
Most of the rating are not scrupulous reviews. As a whole they are mostly indicative of people's attitude toward the game.
Originally posted by Spathotan The game is going on 2 years old, it cant be expected to be uptop forever. Plus this argument has been recycled time and time again, the raitings on this site mean nothing. Its just a number that represents how the members of this forum feel about the game. Its not a set-in-stone judgement of the game. DaoC has an 8.2, GuildWars is on the list twice, same goes for CoH/V. And EVE has been at the top for ages, that tells you something.
Since your posts so far have been completely irrelevant to the discussion points being made I will not bother to respond to you again until you get yourself together and start bringing up relevant information.
Since your posts have so far been completely factually incorrect, why would you think I had missed your point and not directly responded to it?
Further more, I am not intrested in how people buy their games, I do not see why anyones place of purchase might define the popularity or financial success of a game in anyway. This is a red herring.
WoW's featuring in top 5 over the counter sales is VERY significant. It is in everyway indicative of the popularity and financial success of the game.
One in every five dollars spent on PC games in the U.S. last year was spent on WoW.
Originally posted by Gameloading haha...comparing it to pregnant girls, religion and cars. I see the WoW haters have officially over ruled the fanboys in being unrealistic. its simply amazing what jealousy can do to the mmorpg.com rating. now you can tell me a lot about WoW, if you like or not, but your not going to tell me City of heroes and City of villains are better games then WoW. Today is once again proven the mmorpg.com ratings are NOT based on quality. I rest my case.
Completely agree. Here is the hard reality for the WOW haters. Less than 6155 people on this site gave it a bad review, yet 6.5M people worldwide think it is worth paying $15 a month for. Face it WOW is a great game or people wouldn't be spending the money they do on it. Facts is facts, anything else is hater rhetoric!
Originally posted by LotsOfFnords When will people understand that a big marketing department and just getting people to buy a game is not in any way "proof" of a game's greatness?
Damn good "evidence" though.
For the record there are plenty of games with bigger marketing departments that haven't done as well. Marketing is only part of the process. There is also distribution, finance, R&D, support and who knows what else.
The one thing you can pretty much guarentee is that no matter how well advertised, shit still stinks.
Getting a product to market isn't enough, you still need to have a saleable product.
No matter how well marketed, if Coca Cola tasted of cows piss, no one would buy it.
just saying when most of the pop isnt in north american how can they call it the best game ever when majority of players are from half way around the world and there just gold farming the shit outta the game...my 2 cents...a bit off topic but would you recommend matrix?
Although if you did want to, you would find more North Americans playing WoW than anyother MMO. The servers are limited to a few thousand players per machine, so you won't actually be playing with 6.5 million others, and the server will be local to you, so you will be playing with people from your own geographic region. If you want to play with Chinese people, you must buy the Chinese version.
Matrix online is the poorest game I have seen in many years and the worst MMO I have played yet. If you are a die hard Matrix fan you will enjoy it more.
Originally posted by harrisond id bet atleast 50% of that population is from china
So what? If the data is correct and only 2 million of the subscribers are from North America that is still over 1.5 Million more players than any other North American MMO.
Originally posted by harrisond just saying when most of the pop isnt in north american how can they call it the best game ever when majority of players are from half way around the world and there just gold farming the shit outta the game...my 2 cents...a bit off topic but would you recommend matrix?
Um, not every chinese player is a goldfarmer, far from it really.
recommend the matrix online? I'm going to say yes, but tons of haters will say no because they played it when it was full of bugs. and to be honnest, it only became a good game recently. giive it a try, its you who has to decide, not someone else. and there is a trial.
Comments
Okay, okay....
All this bickering over how all the subscriptions to WoW MUST mean that it is the best mmo out there, and that the ratings are just flawed in some way because of fanboys voting down WoW and voting up the game that they play. TOO MANY OF YOU TO MENTION POSTED SOMETHING ALONG THESE LINES.
So, the ratings are flawed eh? Fanboys for other games besides WOW screw up WOW's ratings, otherwise it would have the highest rating cuz look at all it's 6.5 million subs! <--- THIS is what a LOT of you are essentially saying.
And to that bunch of ridiculous nonsense, I must say this:
If WOW has 6.5+ million subs, you don't think that MORE WoW fans are on this site then say UO fans? Ofcourse there are. Look at the numbers you keep proudly pointing to! And you don't think all the bazillion WoW fanboys aren't voting WoW up with inflated numbers and voting games like UO and AC down just because they don't have as pretty of graphics? My point is that exactly. With the bazillion WoW fans as you keep pointing out, there are very likely many more WoW fans bashing other games that aren't as pretty and voting super high scores across the board for WoW. It just seems like common sense.
Let me again point this out to all you that think WoW is the bestest mmo ever...
Since when in the hell do numbers mean anything???
Does walmarts millions of customers every year mean that it is actually a "better" store then Sears or Best Buy? Because the Spice Girls sold more albums then did Van Morrison in 1998, does that mean that the Spice Girls are 10 times more talented then Van Morrison?? Britney Spears is a much better singer then is Jonny Lang?? She sold 100 times the albums, so she must be! (Even though the reviews are by far in favor of Jonny Lang, those reviews are just dope head fanboys and Britney Spears is by far better because of her # of albums sold) Uh huh.
Numbers mean Z E R O.
Nothing.
Notta.
If all you sheep would actualy use your head and judge something for what it is rather then what millions of people are screaming it is, then maybe this world would start to steer away from all the popularity flocking and towards a really accurate display of real value.
Tens of millions of people smoke. Must be GREAT! Go do it! Smoking > Not smoking!
Millions of teenage girls get pregnant every year! Must be the smart thing to do!
Millions of people drive drunk avery year. Gotta be the smart thing to do!
And Last, but certainly not least... Millions of Americans (and the majority) voted for George W Bush not only once, but twice! ... GW Bush has to be a great president!!
... Here come the flames at me (but never from a WOW fanboy since there are obviously none of those on this site...
)
- Zaxx
One quick question:
How many WOW players are there in the U.S., it's "home" market, so to speak? How many in China? Europe?
Those are the numbers to look at. I'm not exactly doom-saying WOW, but I'm betting its American market is sucking it big-time.
Just another random pondering from my armchair. You are returned to your regularly scheduled flame-war... eh, debate.
Edit: couldn't be arsed. Life's too short.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
5 billion chinese are buddhist, can you deny that is the greatest religion in the world????????
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Have you editted it? It still looks the same.
I think whoever compiled that forgot about Continental Europe.
As far as I can tell WoW is still dominating the MMO market in America.
Have you editted it? It still looks the same.
Summarized for the peanut gallery
Original poster I was responding to: WoW appears in lots of top 5 lists
Me: Those lists do not appear to be separating boxes and game cards and only track over the counter sales which are an increasingly insignificant part of the PC game market
You: PC game sales are as strong as ever!
Me: The numbers the OP is presenting don’t measure PC game sales only a diminishing segment of the PC game market.
You: PC game sales are strong
Me: Reread my previous posts. (+ a hint to where you are missing the point)
You: they look the same.
I’m commenting on PC game sales through traditional over the counter channels, you are talking total dollar value of PC games. These are two very different things, and the one does not tell you anything particularly useful about the other, which of course is the original point regarding the OP’s top 5 lists.
Since your posts so far have been completely irrelevant to the discussion points being made I will not bother to respond to you again until you get yourself together and start bringing up relevant information.
haha...comparing it to pregnant girls, religion and cars.
I see the WoW haters have officially over ruled the fanboys in being unrealistic. its simply amazing what jealousy can do to the mmorpg.com rating. now you can tell me a lot about WoW, if you like or not, but your not going to tell me City of heroes and City of villains are better games then WoW. Today is once again proven the mmorpg.com ratings are NOT based on quality. I rest my case.
I would say that it seems the wind is beginning to blow in a different direction and Blizzard is beginning to lose a reources they used to be able to previously depend, fanbois and good press that results from that. You can say the rating here are that meaningful in regards to quality and I won't argue nor will alot of other people. But it does indicate something. My opinoin is that Blizzard is going down a bad road that SOE blazed a few years ago and we are seeing that now. Does it mean WoW sucks by some objective criteria? Not exactly but it is an indicator of attitudes. And attitudes are extremly important.
WoW has always had its fair share of haters. Some of it sorta deserved in that WoW fanbois have been very pushy in the past. The other fanbois hate the WoW fanbois for a reason. Its all silly because they are all fanbois but there is some reason behind it. None of it is rational or backed by real facts or cogent analysis but there are reasons. The support of WoW by its fanbois is erroding, in my opinion, and some of them have turned into anti-fanbois. Thus you see the rating dropping. Its not really too late at this point for blizzard to turn things around, they think their expansion will fix things. If it does probably WoW will climb back up, as some of the people still holding out hope will start feeling good about thhings again. I don't expect this happen, the expansion won't actually address the problem most players have and so they will go from feeling bad to actual dislike. When people switch to active dislike they do not give objective ratings. They give a game they played for a year or more a 5/10. Well if you played a game that bad for a year and payed a monthly fee then you are dumb.
Most of the rating are not scrupulous reviews. As a whole they are mostly indicative of people's attitude toward the game.
WoW's featuring in top 5 over the counter sales is VERY significant. It is in everyway indicative of the popularity and financial success of the game.
One in every five dollars spent on PC games in the U.S. last year was spent on WoW.
Completely agree. Here is the hard reality for the WOW haters. Less than 6155 people on this site gave it a bad review, yet 6.5M people worldwide think it is worth paying $15 a month for. Face it WOW is a great game or people wouldn't be spending the money they do on it. Facts is facts, anything else is hater rhetoric!
id bet atleast 50% of that population is from china
Damn good "evidence" though.
For the record there are plenty of games with bigger marketing departments that haven't done as well. Marketing is only part of the process. There is also distribution, finance, R&D, support and who knows what else.
The one thing you can pretty much guarentee is that no matter how well advertised, shit still stinks.
Getting a product to market isn't enough, you still need to have a saleable product.
No matter how well marketed, if Coca Cola tasted of cows piss, no one would buy it.
.
Who wants to play with North Americans?
Although if you did want to, you would find more North Americans playing WoW than anyother MMO. The servers are limited to a few thousand players per machine, so you won't actually be playing with 6.5 million others, and the server will be local to you, so you will be playing with people from your own geographic region. If you want to play with Chinese people, you must buy the Chinese version.
Matrix online is the poorest game I have seen in many years and the worst MMO I have played yet. If you are a die hard Matrix fan you will enjoy it more.
recommend the matrix online? I'm going to say yes, but tons of haters will say no because they played it when it was full of bugs. and to be honnest, it only became a good game recently. giive it a try, its you who has to decide, not someone else. and there is a trial.