Originally posted by Copeland lol the game is 5 months from release at least and people are saying theres bugs in beta? wow i expected it to be polished , finished , boxed up and on its way to the store ...NOT!
Haha that made me chuckle :P people need to relax and just let Sigil get on with the game. Have faith people, it will pay off in the end......i hope.
Some WoW fan who felt dissed because the beta community didn't want to make Vanguard more WoWish. Read it again.
Sorry, I loved WoW while I played it, but I don't want Vanguard to be anything like it, either. I do want a challenge and a reason to fear death, or at least be a reason to be a BIT wary of it. Make it beautiful and a real pain in the ass to level up in. Been a long time since I felt some sense of accomplishment just from levelling up in a game. Slow down the combat to a realistic tilt and make the weapons realistic not cartoony.
Whatever it ends up as, I can't wait.
I've been following this game because I liked the ideas behind Vanguard, but I saw a demo of it at E3 and a personal "demo" from a friend with beta. What people have been saying in their bad reviews is true:
1. It is a featureless shell. . . empty, contentless areas are much more frequent than content complete areas, which could be part of beta; it's just that beta has been going on for nearly a year now and progress must be extremely slow.
2. Corpse runs aren't fun. That was just nostalgia that made me think they were cool. It's actually exceedingly frustrating.
3. Much of the content isn't instanced. . . which sounds good, but then you run into groups that are zerging the content with tons of players, so you can run through a dungeon with ZERO risk. . . and then wait for them to give you a turn killing the boss. (They will remain there after you get your quest kill done. . . because they are farming the boss).
4. Graphics are ugly. . . you've seen the screenshots and some of those look way better than what I saw at E3. . . on what is presumably a killer system. The game basically looked like ass compared to the other titles being demoed around it.
Vanguard has such a hugely dedicated fan base. . . especially for a game that isn't out. My guess is that you guys will turn on this game and become it's biggest critics after you play in the beta for a while and realize how much this thing sucks.
Some WoW fan who felt dissed because the beta community didn't want to make Vanguard more WoWish. Read it again. Sorry, I loved WoW while I played it, but I don't want Vanguard to be anything like it, either. I do want a challenge and a reason to fear death, or at least be a reason to be a BIT wary of it. Make it beautiful and a real pain in the ass to level up in. Been a long time since I felt some sense of accomplishment just from levelling up in a game. Slow down the combat to a realistic tilt and make the weapons realistic not cartoony. Whatever it ends up as, I can't wait.
I've been following this game because I liked the ideas behind Vanguard, but I saw a demo of it at E3 and a personal "demo" from a friend with beta. What people have been saying in their bad reviews is true: 1. It is a featureless shell. . . empty, contentless areas are much more frequent than content complete areas, which could be part of beta; it's just that beta has been going on for nearly a year now and progress must be extremely slow. 2. Corpse runs aren't fun. That was just nostalgia that made me think they were cool. It's actually exceedingly frustrating. 3. Much of the content isn't instanced. . . which sounds good, but then you run into groups that are zerging the content with tons of players, so you can run through a dungeon with ZERO risk. . . and then wait for them to give you a turn killing the boss. (They will remain there after you get your quest kill done. . . because they are farming the boss). 4. Graphics are ugly. . . you've seen the screenshots and some of those look way better than what I saw at E3. . . on what is presumably a killer system. The game basically looked like ass compared to the other titles being demoed around it. Vanguard has such a hugely dedicated fan base. . . especially for a game that isn't out. My guess is that you guys will turn on this game and become it's biggest critics after you play in the beta for a while and realize how much this thing sucks.[/b][/quote]
I wouldn't worry too much, all the little problems will be ironed out and the game will be great. Although i'm sure you would hate that.
I've been following this game because I liked the ideas behind Vanguard, but I saw a demo of it at E3 and a personal "demo" from a friend with beta. What people have been saying in their bad reviews is true: 2. Corpse runs aren't fun. That was just nostalgia that made me think they were cool. It's actually exceedingly frustrating.
3. Much of the content isn't instanced. . . which sounds good, but then you run into groups that are zerging the content with tons of players, so you can run through a dungeon with ZERO risk. . . and then wait for them to give you a turn killing the boss. (They will remain there after you get your quest kill done. . . because they are farming the boss).
2. Corpse runs aren't fun. That was just nostalgia that made me think they were cool. It's actually exceedingly frustrating.
3. Much of the content isn't instanced. . . which sounds good, but then you run into groups that are zerging the content with tons of players, so you can run through a dungeon with ZERO risk. . . and then wait for them to give you a turn killing the boss. (They will remain there after you get your quest kill done. . . because they are farming the boss).
2. Corpse runs aren't fun. That was just nostalgia that made me think they were cool. It's actually exceedingly frustrating.
3. Much of the content isn't instanced. . . which sounds good, but then you run into groups that are zerging the content with tons of players, so you can run through a dungeon with ZERO risk. . . and then wait for them to give you a turn killing the boss. (They will remain there after you get your quest kill done. . . because they are farming the boss).
2. Corpse runs aren't fun. That was just nostalgia that made me think they were cool. It's actually exceedingly frustrating.
3. Much of the content isn't instanced. . . which sounds good, but then you run into groups that are zerging the content with tons of players, so you can run through a dungeon with ZERO risk. . . and then wait for them to give you a turn killing the boss. (They will remain there after you get your quest kill done. . . because they are farming the boss).
Sounds to me like you want a game on easy mode, along with the ability to live in your own private instances cut off from society like a hermit so you dont have to deal with human interaction.
Instancing sucks, and easy death penalties (which includes anything that doesnt have a CR) sucks. Maybe this game is too hard for you, thats fine it wont be for everyone. However, you have umpteen million easy instanced games to choose from, and we have no challenging games available at all. You are VASTLY underestimating the market for this game. It isnt 6 million, but it isnt 50k either. Dont be surprised if this game gets and holds at least 500k for years.
It isnt 6 million, but it isnt 50k either. Dont be surprised if this game gets and holds at least 500k for years.
500k? Hardly... Look at EVE, bar-none the most challenging MMORPG out there right now (excellent game too, if you have the time and truly want to live a RL outer space experience), they might hit 200k subs, but that could be stretching it... Vanguard will get at least 300k subs right off the bat... Due to it's challenging nature (which I am still on the fence about, have to play to see), there is no way Vanguard will hold more than 200k subs... Sigil may be just fine with that too, but if they have delusions of gandeur with the whole dethroning of WoW, they better think again... The average gamer won't put up with corpse runs and the imminent possiblity of loosing everything at once...
Originally posted by Dis_Ordur Originally posted by Cayleu
It isnt 6 million, but it isnt 50k either. Dont be surprised if this game gets and holds at least 500k for years.
500k? Hardly... Look at EVE, bar-none the most challenging MMORPG out there right now (excellent game too, if you have the time and truly want to live a RL outer space experience), they might hit 200k subs, but that could be stretching it... Vanguard will get at least 300k subs right off the bat... Due to it's challenging nature (which I am still on the fence about, have to play to see), there is no way Vanguard will hold more than 200k subs... Sigil may be just fine with that too, but if they have delusions of gandeur with the whole dethroning of WoW, they better think again... The average gamer won't put up with corpse runs and the imminent possiblity of loosing everything at once... What will be interesting to see is, if the game doesn't hit some illusory "6 million" World of Warcraft-type subs, what will happen to it now that SOE, the "WoW Clone Champion", is involved.
(Keep the flames in your pants, please. I'm not trollbaiting, just being speculative...)
-------------------------------------------------------------------- As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
Originally posted by jonaku My recollection was that even when WoW was in beta, beta testers would break the NDA and overwhelming compliment how much fun the game was. When you look at the praise and criticism of NDA-breaking beta testers of Matrix Online, EQ2, SWG, DnL and DDO, for the most part, THEY WERE ACCURATE. We are seeing a concensus from beta testers on how the Vanguard beta is proceeding and it's not a pretty picture. I'd be worried.
You can worry all you want. You don't like the game. We understand that. WoW was fun for about 12 hours. Vanguard will be fun for years to come.
Originally posted by jonaku My recollection was that even when WoW was in beta, beta testers would break the NDA and overwhelming compliment how much fun the game was. When you look at the praise and criticism of NDA-breaking beta testers of Matrix Online, EQ2, SWG, DnL and DDO, for the most part, THEY WERE ACCURATE. We are seeing a concensus from beta testers on how the Vanguard beta is proceeding and it's not a pretty picture. I'd be worried.
You can worry all you want. You don't like the game. We understand that. WoW was fun for about 12 hours. Vanguard will be fun for years to come.
I doubt I will play Vangard, but I won't know until its released. However, one thing that I've noticed on these boards is that the fans of this game (vanbois if you will), have incredible powers of telling the future. The poster in the first quote is only posting absolute fact. But, I've seen replies like the second quote to almost every post concerning beta news.
If I do play this game, I will probably like it much more than the vanbois here because I have realistic expectations of what the game is or is not shaping up to be. To continue to ignore that there obviously are problems in beta and that the game may ship in a less than complete state is foolish in my opinion.
Double the expectations... Double the disappointment...
Also, most of the people here that are saying how great the game will be have no more information or reason to support that than the people who are saying it will be a disaster.
Originally posted by Tuvarin Originally posted by CopelandOriginally posted by jonakuMy recollection was that even when WoW was in beta, beta testers would break the NDA and overwhelming compliment how much fun the game was.When you look at the praise and criticism of NDA-breaking beta testers of Matrix Online, EQ2, SWG, DnL and DDO, for the most part, THEY WERE ACCURATE.We are seeing a concensus from beta testers on how the Vanguard beta is proceeding and it's not a pretty picture. I'd be worried. You can worry all you want. You don't like the game. We understand that. WoW was fun for about 12 hours. Vanguard will be fun for years to come.I doubt I will play Vangard, but I won't know until its released. However, one thing that I've noticed on these boards is that the fans of this game (vanbois if you will), have incredible powers of telling the future. The poster in the first quote is only posting absolute fact. But, I've seen replies like the second quote to almost every post concerning beta news. If I do play this game, I will probably like it much more than the vanbois here because I have realistic expectations of what the game is or is not shaping up to be. To continue to ignore that there obviously are problems in beta and that the game may ship in a less than complete state is foolish in my opinion. Double the expectations... Double the disappointment... Also, most of the people here that are saying how great the game will be have no more information or reason to support that than the people who are saying it will be a disaster. Tuv
Ok well i've beta'd many games. I don't take beta bashing serious in the least bit. This is Brad McQuaid we're talking about. He has a long and proven track record of developing the GENRE not just the games. I don't have powers to tell the future. I have the ability to expect similar results as in the past. Thanks.
If I'm not mistaken, Brad has only developed EQ, which was heavily based on Diaku mud. In fact it was so heavily based on Diaku mud (except for the 3D client, most of the server code was almost identicle), that the original developer who released the code as open source threatened a law suit.
I'm not saying Brad isn't gifted or that he's a genius either. I'm just saying I would take both the good and the bad news with a grain of salt. The problem with the beta news is that there is hardly any good news.
Originally posted by jonaku My recollection was that even when WoW was in beta, beta testers would break the NDA and overwhelming compliment how much fun the game was. When you look at the praise and criticism of NDA-breaking beta testers of Matrix Online, EQ2, SWG, DnL and DDO, for the most part, THEY WERE ACCURATE. We are seeing a concensus from beta testers on how the Vanguard beta is proceeding and it's not a pretty picture. I'd be worried.
If I remember correctly WoW allowed disclosure of the game during beta. It was a rather brilliant marketting tactic on their part, they had a ton of publicity before the game ever even went final just from all the testor material that was being released.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Tuvarin If I'm not mistaken, Brad has only developed EQ, which was heavily based on Diaku mud. In fact it was so heavily based on Diaku mud (except for the 3D client, most of the server code was almost identicle), that the original developer who released the code as open source threatened a law suit. I'm not saying Brad isn't gifted or that he's a genius either. I'm just saying I would take both the good and the bad news with a grain of salt. The problem with the beta news is that there is hardly any good news. Tuv
Server code couldn't even be close on a mud versus EQ. I know the suit you are talking about and that suit never went anywhere, he tried to sue and got nowhere with it. The similarities that he was using as evidence to open the suit was the things like "It begins to rain" in the game.
However since he had no access to EQ's code like he thought Verrant was just going to let him have access too he could prove nothing and his case I beleive didn't float.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Server code couldn't even be close on a mud versus EQ. I know the suit you are talking about and that suit never went anywhere, he tried to sue and got nowhere with it. The similarities that he was using as evidence to open the suit was the things like "It begins to rain" in the game. However since he had no access to EQ's code like he thought Verrant was just going to let him have access too he could prove nothing and his case I beleive didn't float.
My mistake. I thought that he was arguing that the "zone" system was being handled closely to the same way his mud was handling the room system. I also, thought that he had run across some messages due to some bugs in EQ that had notes (like commented code) identicle to what he had used. I must have mistaken that for "it begins to rain" type messages.
I stand corrected.
It just seems that many of the committed fans here are so defensive due to the previous onslaught of anti-SOE postings that they are lumping those posting beta leaks into the same group and dismissing them. I just don't think that is wise. If Brad and his team are reconsidering some of their game play elements, such as corps runs or maps, I just hope they don't let the anti-WoW zealots that are testing their game, lambash them into backing down from features they know will improve the game.
I for one, don't think it would be too much fun to play a game with a huge game world without a mapping system of some sort.
I doubt I will play Vangard, but I won't know until its released. However, one thing that I've noticed on these boards is that the fans of this game (vanbois if you will), have incredible powers of telling the future.
Ohh and in your 10 post career here have you noticed that the anti-SOE flambois seem to predict the future a heck of a lot more? Saying this game will never have 500k subs (Dis_0rdur) which is BS, you have no clue how many subs it will have. Predicting Sony will buy the game from Sigil or buy Sigil outright. Predicting doom and gloom all the way down the line for this game?
And as far as you saying those of us who are predicting the game to be a success have no more information than those predicting it will be a failure? You don't know a damn thing about me or anyone else here. I have been waiting for this game for over 2 years and I have devoured each and every tidbit of information and I know I will like this game. Brad Mcquaid is a true gamer and this game is everything that mmorpg's should be and will be the cure for crappy ass mediocre games like WoW who try and be all games to all people. When you do that you get watered down Candyland type of experiences a la WoW. I for one WANT a challenge.
Ohh and in your 10 post career here have you noticed that the anti-SOE flambois seem to predict the future a heck of a lot more? Saying this game will never have 500k subs (Dis_0rdur) which is BS, you have no clue how many subs it will have. Predicting Sony will buy the game from Sigil or buy Sigil outright. Predicting doom and gloom all the way down the line for this game? And as far as you saying those of us who are predicting the game to be a success have no more information than those predicting it will be a failure? You don't know a damn thing about me or anyone else here. I have been waiting for this game for over 2 years and I have devoured each and every tidbit of information and I know I will like this game. Brad Mcquaid is a true gamer and this game is everything that mmorpg's should be and will be the cure for crappy ass mediocre games like WoW who try and be all games to all people. When you do that you get watered down Candyland type of experiences a la WoW. I for one WANT a challenge. See you in Vanguard, n00b.
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Tuvarin
I doubt I will play Vangard, but I won't know until its released. However, one thing that I've noticed on these boards is that the fans of this game (vanbois if you will), have incredible powers of telling the future.
Ohh and in your 10 post career here have you noticed that the anti-SOE flambois seem to predict the future a heck of a lot more? Saying this game will never have 500k subs (Dis_0rdur) which is BS, you have no clue how many subs it will have. Predicting Sony will buy the game from Sigil or buy Sigil outright. Predicting doom and gloom all the way down the line for this game?
And as far as you saying those of us who are predicting the game to be a success have no more information than those predicting it will be a failure? You don't know a damn thing about me or anyone else here. I have been waiting for this game for over 2 years and I have devoured each and every tidbit of information and I know I will like this game. Brad Mcquaid is a true gamer and this game is everything that mmorpg's should be and will be the cure for crappy ass mediocre games like WoW who try and be all games to all people. When you do that you get watered down Candyland type of experiences a la WoW. I for one WANT a challenge.
See you in Vanguard, n00b.
Damn Art... never knew you had borrowed the Gallagher Sledge-o-matic and brought it over to the Vanguard forums. Never seen you lay the smacketh downward so forcefully. Must have been what shrunk your sig.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Tuvarin
I doubt I will play Vangard, but I won't know until its released. However, one thing that I've noticed on these boards is that the fans of this game (vanbois if you will), have incredible powers of telling the future.
Ohh and in your 10 post career here have you noticed that the anti-SOE flambois seem to predict the future a heck of a lot more? Saying this game will never have 500k subs (Dis_0rdur) which is BS, you have no clue how many subs it will have. Predicting Sony will buy the game from Sigil or buy Sigil outright. Predicting doom and gloom all the way down the line for this game?
And as far as you saying those of us who are predicting the game to be a success have no more information than those predicting it will be a failure? You don't know a damn thing about me or anyone else here. I have been waiting for this game for over 2 years and I have devoured each and every tidbit of information and I know I will like this game. Brad Mcquaid is a true gamer and this game is everything that mmorpg's should be and will be the cure for crappy ass mediocre games like WoW who try and be all games to all people. When you do that you get watered down Candyland type of experiences a la WoW. I for one WANT a challenge.
See you in Vanguard, n00b.
wow. i compliment your incredible powers to predict the future of vanguard, like its subscription figures and its awesomeness and creamy goodness.
very impressive.
i also like how you, like, TOTALLY proved Tuvarin wrong with his stereotypes about vanbois.
Damn Art... never knew you had borrowed the Gallagher Sledge-o-matic and brought it over to the Vanguard forums. Never seen you lay the smacketh downward so forcefully. Must have been what shrunk your sig.
His name calling has been reported, typical Vanguard poster with petty name calling. I assure you Vanguard won't break 200k subscribers on top of it, everyone hates the game except like 5 fanbois. Brad is also hated more often then liked, he is a terrible game designer.
Originally posted by Shayde Damn Art... never knew you had borrowed the Gallagher Sledge-o-matic and brought it over to the Vanguard forums. Never seen you lay the smacketh downward so forcefully. Must have been what shrunk your sig.
lol I like you Shayde, I just wish you didn't have to judge Vanguard simply for having anything to do with Sony. Can't you just reserve judgement until either Sony actually does something wrong or gets control over ANY aspect of the actual game itself?
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Shayde Damn Art... never knew you had borrowed the Gallagher Sledge-o-matic and brought it over to the Vanguard forums. Never seen you lay the smacketh downward so forcefully. Must have been what shrunk your sig.
lol I like you Shayde, I just wish you didn't have to judge Vanguard simply for having anything to do with Sony. Can't you just reserve judgement until either Sony actually does something wrong or gets control over ANY aspect of the actual game itself?
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Shayde Damn Art... never knew you had borrowed the Gallagher Sledge-o-matic and brought it over to the Vanguard forums. Never seen you lay the smacketh downward so forcefully. Must have been what shrunk your sig.
lol I like you Shayde, I just wish you didn't have to judge Vanguard simply for having anything to do with Sony. Can't you just reserve judgement until either Sony actually does something wrong or gets control over ANY aspect of the actual game itself? Art.. I like you too (Heck.. YOU got me interested in Vanguard in the FIRST place)... but I played SWG and MxO.
I personally can't get my mind around YOUR viewpoint of giving $OE any benefit of any doubt. You must not have loved SWG as much as I. For you she was a passing fancy.. but for me she was the stars in the sky.
You ever hear Chris Rock do his bit on Michael Jackson? "Another kid.. ANOTHER KID? That's like another dead Blonde showing up at OJ's house and he says "I know what this looks like". It's like Vanguard is now being raised in the Neverland Ranch. Mom & Dad are still raising the kid.. but with MICHAEL in the house?
But it's all wait and see. I'm just here now to crack a few jokes and dispel any $OE PR fallacies.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by anarchyart Ohh and in your 10 post career here have you noticed that the anti-SOE flambois seem to predict the future a heck of a lot more? Saying this game will never have 500k subs (Dis_0rdur) which is BS, you have no clue how many subs it will have. Predicting Sony will buy the game from Sigil or buy Sigil outright. Predicting doom and gloom all the way down the line for this game? And as far as you saying those of us who are predicting the game to be a success have no more information than those predicting it will be a failure? You don't know a damn thing about me or anyone else here. I have been waiting for this game for over 2 years and I have devoured each and every tidbit of information and I know I will like this game. Brad Mcquaid is a true gamer and this game is everything that mmorpg's should be and will be the cure for crappy ass mediocre games like WoW who try and be all games to all people. When you do that you get watered down Candyland type of experiences a la WoW. I for one WANT a challenge. See you in Vanguard, n00b.
Someone has their panties in a knot today...
Most aren't predicting SOE is going to buy Vanguard slick, we are saying it's POSSIBLE. Maybe you should take some of your own advice and relax alittle.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Art.. I like you too (Heck.. YOU got me interested in Vanguard in the FIRST place)... but I played SWG and MxO.
I personally can't get my mind around YOUR viewpoint of giving $OE any benefit of any doubt. You must not have loved SWG as much as I. For you she was a passing fancy.. but for me she was the stars in the sky.
You ever hear Chris Rock do his bit on Michael Jackson? "Another kid.. ANOTHER KID? That's like another dead Blonde showing up at OJ's house and he says "I know what this looks like". It's like Vanguard is now being raised in the Neverland Ranch. Mom & Dad are still raising the kid.. but with MICHAEL in the house?
But it's all wait and see. I'm just here now to crack a few jokes and dispel any $OE PR fallacies.
Yeah, I hear you. I had a gf at the time who hated SWG, that's the ONLY reason I didn't give up EQ for it.
I love that Chris Rock but btw, hell all Chris Rock bits. You have the right to be cynical, just like I have the right to be a cock-eyed optimist.
Comments
Some WoW fan who felt dissed because the beta community didn't want to make Vanguard more WoWish. Read it again.
Sorry, I loved WoW while I played it, but I don't want Vanguard to be anything like it, either. I do want a challenge and a reason to fear death, or at least be a reason to be a BIT wary of it. Make it beautiful and a real pain in the ass to level up in. Been a long time since I felt some sense of accomplishment just from levelling up in a game. Slow down the combat to a realistic tilt and make the weapons realistic not cartoony.
Whatever it ends up as, I can't wait.
I've been following this game because I liked the ideas behind Vanguard, but I saw a demo of it at E3 and a personal "demo" from a friend with beta. What people have been saying in their bad reviews is true:
1. It is a featureless shell. . . empty, contentless areas are much more frequent than content complete areas, which could be part of beta; it's just that beta has been going on for nearly a year now and progress must be extremely slow.
2. Corpse runs aren't fun. That was just nostalgia that made me think they were cool. It's actually exceedingly frustrating.
3. Much of the content isn't instanced. . . which sounds good, but then you run into groups that are zerging the content with tons of players, so you can run through a dungeon with ZERO risk. . . and then wait for them to give you a turn killing the boss. (They will remain there after you get your quest kill done. . . because they are farming the boss).
4. Graphics are ugly. . . you've seen the screenshots and some of those look way better than what I saw at E3. . . on what is presumably a killer system. The game basically looked like ass compared to the other titles being demoed around it.
Vanguard has such a hugely dedicated fan base. . . especially for a game that isn't out. My guess is that you guys will turn on this game and become it's biggest critics after you play in the beta for a while and realize how much this thing sucks.
[quote]Originally posted by dink
[b]
Originally posted by anarchyart
Originally posted by jonaku
As reported on Slashdot [url=http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/25/1548236] someone has spilled the beans on the Vanguard beta at [url=http://hgamer.blogspot.com/2006/05/vanguard-beta-in-trouble.html]
Some WoW fan who felt dissed because the beta community didn't want to make Vanguard more WoWish. Read it again.
Sorry, I loved WoW while I played it, but I don't want Vanguard to be anything like it, either. I do want a challenge and a reason to fear death, or at least be a reason to be a BIT wary of it. Make it beautiful and a real pain in the ass to level up in. Been a long time since I felt some sense of accomplishment just from levelling up in a game. Slow down the combat to a realistic tilt and make the weapons realistic not cartoony.
Whatever it ends up as, I can't wait.
I've been following this game because I liked the ideas behind Vanguard, but I saw a demo of it at E3 and a personal "demo" from a friend with beta. What people have been saying in their bad reviews is true:
1. It is a featureless shell. . . empty, contentless areas are much more frequent than content complete areas, which could be part of beta; it's just that beta has been going on for nearly a year now and progress must be extremely slow.
2. Corpse runs aren't fun. That was just nostalgia that made me think they were cool. It's actually exceedingly frustrating.
3. Much of the content isn't instanced. . . which sounds good, but then you run into groups that are zerging the content with tons of players, so you can run through a dungeon with ZERO risk. . . and then wait for them to give you a turn killing the boss. (They will remain there after you get your quest kill done. . . because they are farming the boss).
4. Graphics are ugly. . . you've seen the screenshots and some of those look way better than what I saw at E3. . . on what is presumably a killer system. The game basically looked like ass compared to the other titles being demoed around it.
Vanguard has such a hugely dedicated fan base. . . especially for a game that isn't out. My guess is that you guys will turn on this game and become it's biggest critics after you play in the beta for a while and realize how much this thing sucks.[/b][/quote]
I wouldn't worry too much, all the little problems will be ironed out and the game will be great
Sounds to me like you want a game on easy mode, along with the ability to live in your own private instances cut off from society like a hermit so you dont have to deal with human interaction.
Instancing sucks, and easy death penalties (which includes anything that doesnt have a CR) sucks. Maybe this game is too hard for you, thats fine it wont be for everyone. However, you have umpteen million easy instanced games to choose from, and we have no challenging games available at all. You are VASTLY underestimating the market for this game. It isnt 6 million, but it isnt 50k either. Dont be surprised if this game gets and holds at least 500k for years.
It isnt 6 million, but it isnt 50k either. Dont be surprised if this game gets and holds at least 500k for years.
500k? Hardly... Look at EVE, bar-none the most challenging MMORPG out there right now (excellent game too, if you have the time and truly want to live a RL outer space experience), they might hit 200k subs, but that could be stretching it... Vanguard will get at least 300k subs right off the bat... Due to it's challenging nature (which I am still on the fence about, have to play to see), there is no way Vanguard will hold more than 200k subs... Sigil may be just fine with that too, but if they have delusions of gandeur with the whole dethroning of WoW, they better think again... The average gamer won't put up with corpse runs and the imminent possiblity of loosing everything at once...
It isnt 6 million, but it isnt 50k either. Dont be surprised if this game gets and holds at least 500k for years.
500k? Hardly... Look at EVE, bar-none the most challenging MMORPG out there right now (excellent game too, if you have the time and truly want to live a RL outer space experience), they might hit 200k subs, but that could be stretching it... Vanguard will get at least 300k subs right off the bat... Due to it's challenging nature (which I am still on the fence about, have to play to see), there is no way Vanguard will hold more than 200k subs... Sigil may be just fine with that too, but if they have delusions of gandeur with the whole dethroning of WoW, they better think again... The average gamer won't put up with corpse runs and the imminent possiblity of loosing everything at once...
What will be interesting to see is, if the game doesn't hit some illusory "6 million" World of Warcraft-type subs, what will happen to it now that SOE, the "WoW Clone Champion", is involved.
(Keep the flames in your pants, please. I'm not trollbaiting, just being speculative...)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
I agree Dis. If the existing rule set makes to release, I'll wager corpse runs and xp loss will be mitigated with in the first quarter.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
My recollection was that even when WoW was in beta, beta testers would break the NDA and overwhelming compliment how much fun the game was.
When you look at the praise and criticism of NDA-breaking beta testers of Matrix Online, EQ2, SWG, DnL and DDO, for the most part, THEY WERE ACCURATE.
We are seeing a concensus from beta testers on how the Vanguard beta is proceeding and it's not a pretty picture. I'd be worried.
You can worry all you want. You don't like the game. We understand that. WoW was fun for about 12 hours. Vanguard will be fun for years to come.
Make a difference!
You can worry all you want. You don't like the game. We understand that. WoW was fun for about 12 hours. Vanguard will be fun for years to come.
I doubt I will play Vangard, but I won't know until its released. However, one thing that I've noticed on these boards is that the fans of this game (vanbois if you will), have incredible powers of telling the future. The poster in the first quote is only posting absolute fact. But, I've seen replies like the second quote to almost every post concerning beta news.
If I do play this game, I will probably like it much more than the vanbois here because I have realistic expectations of what the game is or is not shaping up to be. To continue to ignore that there obviously are problems in beta and that the game may ship in a less than complete state is foolish in my opinion.
Double the expectations... Double the disappointment...
Also, most of the people here that are saying how great the game will be have no more information or reason to support that than the people who are saying it will be a disaster.
Tuv
Ok well i've beta'd many games. I don't take beta bashing serious in the least bit. This is Brad McQuaid we're talking about. He has a long and proven track record of developing the GENRE not just the games. I don't have powers to tell the future. I have the ability to expect similar results as in the past. Thanks.
Make a difference!
If I'm not mistaken, Brad has only developed EQ, which was heavily based on Diaku mud. In fact it was so heavily based on Diaku mud (except for the 3D client, most of the server code was almost identicle), that the original developer who released the code as open source threatened a law suit.
I'm not saying Brad isn't gifted or that he's a genius either. I'm just saying I would take both the good and the bad news with a grain of salt. The problem with the beta news is that there is hardly any good news.
Tuv
If I remember correctly WoW allowed disclosure of the game during beta. It was a rather brilliant marketting tactic on their part, they had a ton of publicity before the game ever even went final just from all the testor material that was being released.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Server code couldn't even be close on a mud versus EQ. I know the suit you are talking about and that suit never went anywhere, he tried to sue and got nowhere with it. The similarities that he was using as evidence to open the suit was the things like "It begins to rain" in the game.
However since he had no access to EQ's code like he thought Verrant was just going to let him have access too he could prove nothing and his case I beleive didn't float.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by Fadeus
My mistake. I thought that he was arguing that the "zone" system was being handled closely to the same way his mud was handling the room system. I also, thought that he had run across some messages due to some bugs in EQ that had notes (like commented code) identicle to what he had used. I must have mistaken that for "it begins to rain" type messages.
I stand corrected.
It just seems that many of the committed fans here are so defensive due to the previous onslaught of anti-SOE postings that they are lumping those posting beta leaks into the same group and dismissing them. I just don't think that is wise. If Brad and his team are reconsidering some of their game play elements, such as corps runs or maps, I just hope they don't let the anti-WoW zealots that are testing their game, lambash them into backing down from features they know will improve the game.
I for one, don't think it would be too much fun to play a game with a huge game world without a mapping system of some sort.
Tuv
Ohh and in your 10 post career here have you noticed that the anti-SOE flambois seem to predict the future a heck of a lot more? Saying this game will never have 500k subs (Dis_0rdur) which is BS, you have no clue how many subs it will have. Predicting Sony will buy the game from Sigil or buy Sigil outright. Predicting doom and gloom all the way down the line for this game?
And as far as you saying those of us who are predicting the game to be a success have no more information than those predicting it will be a failure? You don't know a damn thing about me or anyone else here. I have been waiting for this game for over 2 years and I have devoured each and every tidbit of information and I know I will like this game. Brad Mcquaid is a true gamer and this game is everything that mmorpg's should be and will be the cure for crappy ass mediocre games like WoW who try and be all games to all people. When you do that you get watered down Candyland type of experiences a la WoW. I for one WANT a challenge.
See you in Vanguard, n00b.
Originally posted by anarchyart
Case and point.
I give up,
Tuv
Ohh and in your 10 post career here have you noticed that the anti-SOE flambois seem to predict the future a heck of a lot more? Saying this game will never have 500k subs (Dis_0rdur) which is BS, you have no clue how many subs it will have. Predicting Sony will buy the game from Sigil or buy Sigil outright. Predicting doom and gloom all the way down the line for this game?
And as far as you saying those of us who are predicting the game to be a success have no more information than those predicting it will be a failure? You don't know a damn thing about me or anyone else here. I have been waiting for this game for over 2 years and I have devoured each and every tidbit of information and I know I will like this game. Brad Mcquaid is a true gamer and this game is everything that mmorpg's should be and will be the cure for crappy ass mediocre games like WoW who try and be all games to all people. When you do that you get watered down Candyland type of experiences a la WoW. I for one WANT a challenge.
See you in Vanguard, n00b.
Damn Art... never knew you had borrowed the Gallagher Sledge-o-matic and brought it over to the Vanguard forums. Never seen you lay the smacketh downward so forcefully. Must have been what shrunk your sig.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Ohh and in your 10 post career here have you noticed that the anti-SOE flambois seem to predict the future a heck of a lot more? Saying this game will never have 500k subs (Dis_0rdur) which is BS, you have no clue how many subs it will have. Predicting Sony will buy the game from Sigil or buy Sigil outright. Predicting doom and gloom all the way down the line for this game?
And as far as you saying those of us who are predicting the game to be a success have no more information than those predicting it will be a failure? You don't know a damn thing about me or anyone else here. I have been waiting for this game for over 2 years and I have devoured each and every tidbit of information and I know I will like this game. Brad Mcquaid is a true gamer and this game is everything that mmorpg's should be and will be the cure for crappy ass mediocre games like WoW who try and be all games to all people. When you do that you get watered down Candyland type of experiences a la WoW. I for one WANT a challenge.
See you in Vanguard, n00b.
wow. i compliment your incredible powers to predict the future of vanguard, like its subscription figures and its awesomeness and creamy goodness.
very impressive.
i also like how you, like, TOTALLY proved Tuvarin wrong with his stereotypes about vanbois.
/golfclap
His name calling has been reported, typical Vanguard poster with petty name calling. I assure you Vanguard won't break 200k subscribers on top of it, everyone hates the game except like 5 fanbois. Brad is also hated more often then liked, he is a terrible game designer.
Take a look at this thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/785280/thread/79948#785280
My response to you is... why wait when the 800 pound gorilla, SOE, could strike at any time and just buy out Sigil. Then where does that leave you?
Art.. I like you too (Heck.. YOU got me interested in Vanguard in the FIRST place)... but I played SWG and MxO.
I personally can't get my mind around YOUR viewpoint of giving $OE any benefit of any doubt. You must not have loved SWG as much as I. For you she was a passing fancy.. but for me she was the stars in the sky.
You ever hear Chris Rock do his bit on Michael Jackson? "Another kid.. ANOTHER KID? That's like another dead Blonde showing up at OJ's house and he says "I know what this looks like". It's like Vanguard is now being raised in the Neverland Ranch. Mom & Dad are still raising the kid.. but with MICHAEL in the house?
But it's all wait and see. I'm just here now to crack a few jokes and dispel any $OE PR fallacies.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Someone has their panties in a knot today...
Most aren't predicting SOE is going to buy Vanguard slick, we are saying it's POSSIBLE. Maybe you should take some of your own advice and relax alittle.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Yeah, I hear you. I had a gf at the time who hated SWG, that's the ONLY reason I didn't give up EQ for it.
I love that Chris Rock but btw, hell all Chris Rock bits. You have the right to be cynical, just like I have the right to be a cock-eyed optimist.