Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by damian7
Firstly, I rely on the companies and employees themselves to provide the bulk of the data. The numbers they give could be completely made up, and as Enron taught us, even financial reports could be misleading. However, given that none of claims seem highly outrageous, and that all companies are equally capable of lying, it would seem that the numbers given are pretty close to the truth. There is probably some minor fudging involved when a company wants to claim a major milestone, rounding up to the nearest 5K or 10K increment. But at the very least, the relative comparison between MMOGs is retained, even if individual data points may be off 10% or more. <!--[if !
This statement alone verifies the incredible inaccuracy in his charts. The logic he uses is this: because none of the claims are outrageous and all are capable of lying, therefore it would seem the numbers are close to the truth. This is completely illogical.
It does not follow on any form of logic that the numbers must be close to the truth because the claims are not outrageous or everyone is capable of lying. Big Logical Fallacy.
Venge Sunsoar
Why is his argument completely illogical? Because the data he's gotten from employee's in a company is consistent with what he's managed to gather through other means? FFS people just because he doesn't have exact subscriber numbers doesn't mean his numbers are way off base, if you want better accuracy then I suggest you go do the f***ing research yourself.
And damien, yes, MMO developers DO use his data, how do you think he gets some of his numbers in the first place. He's the only one who's taken the time to gather any data on the industry and it would be stupid for the MMO developing community to ignore it, regardless of it's accuracy. As has been said, his numbers have proven themselves to be accurate in all of the time he has been doing them.
Oh, and as for the big gap in his updates, he got busy IRL and was unable to get any updates done, he used to do them on a monthly basis for a long time. That you guys are ragging on him for that is just idiotic.
Originally posted by Minsc Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by damian7
Firstly, I rely on the companies and employees themselves to provide the bulk of the data. The numbers they give could be completely made up, and as Enron taught us, even financial reports could be misleading. However, given that none of claims seem highly outrageous, and that all companies are equally capable of lying, it would seem that the numbers given are pretty close to the truth. There is probably some minor fudging involved when a company wants to claim a major milestone, rounding up to the nearest 5K or 10K increment. But at the very least, the relative comparison between MMOGs is retained, even if individual data points may be off 10% or more. <!--[if !
This statement alone verifies the incredible inaccuracy in his charts. The logic he uses is this: because none of the claims are outrageous and all are capable of lying, therefore it would seem the numbers are close to the truth. This is completely illogical.
It does not follow on any form of logic that the numbers must be close to the truth because the claims are not outrageous or everyone is capable of lying. Big Logical Fallacy.
Venge Sunsoar
Why is his argument completely illogical? Because the data he's gotten from employee's in a company is consistent with what he's managed to gather through other means? FFS people just because he doesn't have exact subscriber numbers doesn't mean his numbers are way off base, if you want better accuracy then I suggest you go do the f***ing research yourself.
And damien, yes, MMO developers DO use his data, how do you think he gets some of his numbers in the first place. He's the only one who's taken the time to gather any data on the industry and it would be stupid for the MMO developing community to ignore it, regardless of it's accuracy. As has been said, his numbers have proven themselves to be accurate in all of the time he has been doing them.
Oh, and as for the big gap in his updates, he got busy IRL and was unable to get any updates done, he used to do them on a monthly basis for a long time. That you guys are ragging on him for that is just idiotic. Why is his argument completely illogical? Because the data he's gotten from employee's in a company is consistent with what he's managed to gather through other means? FFS people just because he doesn't have exact subscriber numbers doesn't mean his numbers are way off base, if you want better accuracy then I suggest you go do the f***ing research yourself.
And damien, yes, MMO developers DO use his data, how do you think he gets some of his numbers in the first place. He's the only one who's taken the time to gather any data on the industry and it would be stupid for the MMO developing community to ignore it, regardless of it's accuracy. As has been said, his numbers have proven themselves to be accurate in all of the time he has been doing them.
Oh, and as for the big gap in his updates, he got busy IRL and was unable to get any updates done, he used to do them on a monthly basis for a long time. That you guys are ragging on him for that is just idiotic.
It is completely illogical because the conclusion does not follow based on the information given. Post hoc ergo propter hoc, after this therefore because of this. the claim is not outrageous and everyone is capable of lying does not mean in any form that the information must be correct. Neither one of the first two assumptions (not outrageous or everyone can lie) verifies in any way the accuracy of the numbers.
Your statement is logical. If the information he receives from someone tallies with any financial reports then you can make a statement about reasonableness. That is not stated here, the only thing that is stated is that the numbers are accurate because everyone can lie and there are no outrageous claims. The conclusion does not follow, and is not justified based on the information or the reasons stated.
Venge Sunsoar
It is completely illogical because the conclusion does not follow based on the information given. Post hoc ergo propter hoc, after this therefore because of this. the claim is not outrageous and everyone is capable of lying does not mean in any form that the information must be correct. Neither one of the first two assumptions (not outrageous or everyone can lie) verifies in any way the accuracy of the numbers.
Your statement is logical. If the information he receives from someone tallies with any financial reports then you can make a statement about reasonableness. That is not stated here, the only thing that is stated is that the numbers are accurate because everyone can lie and there are no outrageous claims. The conclusion does not follow, and is not justified based on the information or the reasons stated.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I think his work is useful to give a general idea. Maybe the absolute numbers are not exact, but tendencies and limits are well represented. Also, not easy to get the numbers. Not every gaming company makes public quarter reports about the company state and subscriber data; some do, but not all of them.
Consider the consistency of the work, over so many years, and you'll understand why these charts are awesome.
the game used to have 10,000+ players on almost every server (except DT) during prime time. This was back in 2002. I dunno why you think they couldn't handle 300 now.
Also the game is hurting for new players right now, and the loot drops have gotten insane. Any new player could just ask a few newb questions in the general chat and they would be showered with whatever gear they needed. Level 5 drudges drop gear that could hold a player over til level 30 if they were completely independant. I know because I did that with an extreme UA character on darktide just to see how feasible it was.
Asheron's Call has always had a very generous community. Any player who wanted to try the game out would have a very easy time fitting in unless he was a complete asshole.
Comments
This statement alone verifies the incredible inaccuracy in his charts. The logic he uses is this: because none of the claims are outrageous and all are capable of lying, therefore it would seem the numbers are close to the truth. This is completely illogical.
It does not follow on any form of logic that the numbers must be close to the truth because the claims are not outrageous or everyone is capable of lying. Big Logical Fallacy.
Venge Sunsoar
Why is his argument completely illogical? Because the data he's gotten from employee's in a company is consistent with what he's managed to gather through other means? FFS people just because he doesn't have exact subscriber numbers doesn't mean his numbers are way off base, if you want better accuracy then I suggest you go do the f***ing research yourself.
And damien, yes, MMO developers DO use his data, how do you think he gets some of his numbers in the first place. He's the only one who's taken the time to gather any data on the industry and it would be stupid for the MMO developing community to ignore it, regardless of it's accuracy. As has been said, his numbers have proven themselves to be accurate in all of the time he has been doing them.
Oh, and as for the big gap in his updates, he got busy IRL and was unable to get any updates done, he used to do them on a monthly basis for a long time. That you guys are ragging on him for that is just idiotic.
This statement alone verifies the incredible inaccuracy in his charts. The logic he uses is this: because none of the claims are outrageous and all are capable of lying, therefore it would seem the numbers are close to the truth. This is completely illogical.
It does not follow on any form of logic that the numbers must be close to the truth because the claims are not outrageous or everyone is capable of lying. Big Logical Fallacy.
Venge Sunsoar
Why is his argument completely illogical? Because the data he's gotten from employee's in a company is consistent with what he's managed to gather through other means? FFS people just because he doesn't have exact subscriber numbers doesn't mean his numbers are way off base, if you want better accuracy then I suggest you go do the f***ing research yourself.
And damien, yes, MMO developers DO use his data, how do you think he gets some of his numbers in the first place. He's the only one who's taken the time to gather any data on the industry and it would be stupid for the MMO developing community to ignore it, regardless of it's accuracy. As has been said, his numbers have proven themselves to be accurate in all of the time he has been doing them.
Oh, and as for the big gap in his updates, he got busy IRL and was unable to get any updates done, he used to do them on a monthly basis for a long time. That you guys are ragging on him for that is just idiotic.
Why is his argument completely illogical? Because the data he's gotten from employee's in a company is consistent with what he's managed to gather through other means? FFS people just because he doesn't have exact subscriber numbers doesn't mean his numbers are way off base, if you want better accuracy then I suggest you go do the f***ing research yourself.
And damien, yes, MMO developers DO use his data, how do you think he gets some of his numbers in the first place. He's the only one who's taken the time to gather any data on the industry and it would be stupid for the MMO developing community to ignore it, regardless of it's accuracy. As has been said, his numbers have proven themselves to be accurate in all of the time he has been doing them.
Oh, and as for the big gap in his updates, he got busy IRL and was unable to get any updates done, he used to do them on a monthly basis for a long time. That you guys are ragging on him for that is just idiotic.
It is completely illogical because the conclusion does not follow based on the information given. Post hoc ergo propter hoc, after this therefore because of this. the claim is not outrageous and everyone is capable of lying does not mean in any form that the information must be correct. Neither one of the first two assumptions (not outrageous or everyone can lie) verifies in any way the accuracy of the numbers.
Your statement is logical. If the information he receives from someone tallies with any financial reports then you can make a statement about reasonableness. That is not stated here, the only thing that is stated is that the numbers are accurate because everyone can lie and there are no outrageous claims. The conclusion does not follow, and is not justified based on the information or the reasons stated.
Venge Sunsoar
It is completely illogical because the conclusion does not follow based on the information given. Post hoc ergo propter hoc, after this therefore because of this. the claim is not outrageous and everyone is capable of lying does not mean in any form that the information must be correct. Neither one of the first two assumptions (not outrageous or everyone can lie) verifies in any way the accuracy of the numbers.
Your statement is logical. If the information he receives from someone tallies with any financial reports then you can make a statement about reasonableness. That is not stated here, the only thing that is stated is that the numbers are accurate because everyone can lie and there are no outrageous claims. The conclusion does not follow, and is not justified based on the information or the reasons stated.
Venge Sunsoar
I think his work is useful to give a general idea. Maybe the absolute numbers are not exact, but tendencies and limits are well represented. Also, not easy to get the numbers. Not every gaming company makes public quarter reports about the company state and subscriber data; some do, but not all of them.
Consider the consistency of the work, over so many years, and you'll understand why these charts are awesome.
posted by K0rnfan4evr
Rofl 1 server cant even handle 300 people simultaneously.
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the game used to have 10,000+ players on almost every server (except DT) during prime time. This was back in 2002. I dunno why you think they couldn't handle 300 now.
Also the game is hurting for new players right now, and the loot drops have gotten insane. Any new player could just ask a few newb questions in the general chat and they would be showered with whatever gear they needed. Level 5 drudges drop gear that could hold a player over til level 30 if they were completely independant. I know because I did that with an extreme UA character on darktide just to see how feasible it was.
Asheron's Call has always had a very generous community. Any player who wanted to try the game out would have a very easy time fitting in unless he was a complete asshole.
Which FF Character Are You?