The gameplay element of banners is playing the game's content to earn the tickets. Rolling on a banner is not only similar, but exactly like opening the chest after you beat the raid or dungeon boss, which then allows you to roll for loot. You aren't usually guaranteed to get the piece that you are after from the loot table (for example, you're after the chest piece but you get the pants instead), and the guild making a spreadsheet to distribute loot would be the equivalent of a pity system in the gacha games. Moreover, the process to get to that point is literally the same: play the game, complete content, and get your chance to roll. Does it matter if after that you're clicking on a chest or on a couple of buttons in the UI?
To use another example, do Warframe's relics count as lootboxes? They work the same way, but you don't pay to get or open them. A lootbox is, after all, just a regular chest with a loot table, with the only difference being that you need to pay to get and/or open it. That's the point, that the difference is not the mechanism involved (which we can like more or less the RNG nature of it, just like it happens with any kind of gameplay element), but the ability to repeatedly pay in order to be able to roll more times without actually playing. That ability doesn't necessarily change the core mechanics from those that we're used to, but it's something added on top of them that can alter how some players play around them.
We will have to agree to differ for me the gameplay involved is as important as whether you can pay to play or not. That difference in gameplay is found even in casino games, for example the difference between playing 21 at a card table or placing a bet on the roulette wheel. The gameplay does matter.
The gameplay element of banners is playing the game's content to earn the tickets. Rolling on a banner is not only similar, but exactly like opening the chest after you beat the raid or dungeon boss, which then allows you to roll for loot. You aren't usually guaranteed to get the piece that you are after from the loot table (for example, you're after the chest piece but you get the pants instead), and the guild making a spreadsheet to distribute loot would be the equivalent of a pity system in the gacha games. Moreover, the process to get to that point is literally the same: play the game, complete content, and get your chance to roll. Does it matter if after that you're clicking on a chest or on a couple of buttons in the UI?
To use another example, do Warframe's relics count as lootboxes? They work the same way, but you don't pay to get or open them. A lootbox is, after all, just a regular chest with a loot table, with the only difference being that you need to pay to get and/or open it. That's the point, that the difference is not the mechanism involved (which we can like more or less the RNG nature of it, just like it happens with any kind of gameplay element), but the ability to repeatedly pay in order to be able to roll more times without actually playing. That ability doesn't necessarily change the core mechanics from those that we're used to, but it's something added on top of them that can alter how some players play around them.
We will have to agree to differ for me the gameplay involved is as important as whether you can pay to play or not. That difference in gameplay is found even in casino games, for example the difference between playing 21 at a card table or placing a bet on the roulette wheel. The gameplay does matter.
If we're still just talking about the gameplay, I think that this example that you used comes from a misconception of what Hoyo games' gameplay is like. They're essentially just like the typical JRPG (action-based in the case of Genshin and ZZZ, and turn-based in the case of Star Rail). The gameplay is just normal RPG gameplay: complete main and side quests, do dungeons, defeat bosses, pursue achievements, complete events, etc., and once you complete those you get your rewards. You aren't "placing a bet" and waiting for a result, you need to actively play the game for your chance to "roll for loot."
That example that you used would only apply in the case of those players that pay to buy tickets, as I also explained. But several MMOs have similar paid features that allow you to be able to loot more often than without paying. There lies the problem, not in the gameplay itself and how you get your rewards normally, which are identical. A normal player without gambling addictions or compulsive disorders can play the games without paying a single cent and wouldn't notice any difference in regards to the gameplay that is offered when compared to other RPGs.
If we're still just talking about the gameplay, I think that this example that you used comes from a misconception of what Hoyo games' gameplay is like. They're essentially just like the typical JRPG (action-based in the case of Genshin and ZZZ, and turn-based in the case of Star Rail). The gameplay is just normal RPG gameplay: complete main and side quests, do dungeons, defeat bosses, pursue achievements, complete events, etc., and once you complete those you get your rewards. You aren't "placing a bet" and waiting for a result, you need to actively play the game for your chance to "roll for loot."
That example that you used would only apply in the case of those players that pay to buy tickets, as I also explained. But several MMOs have similar paid features that allow you to be able to loot more often than without paying. There lies the problem, not in the gameplay itself and how you get your rewards normally, which are identical. A normal player without gambling addictions or compulsive disorders can play the games without paying a single cent and wouldn't notice any difference in regards to the gameplay that is offered when compared to other RPGs.
From what you have said I can see how the issue here is more what you can pay for rather than what you are doing, but do you pay for an item or pay for a chance of getting an item?
If we're still just talking about the gameplay, I think that this example that you used comes from a misconception of what Hoyo games' gameplay is like. They're essentially just like the typical JRPG (action-based in the case of Genshin and ZZZ, and turn-based in the case of Star Rail). The gameplay is just normal RPG gameplay: complete main and side quests, do dungeons, defeat bosses, pursue achievements, complete events, etc., and once you complete those you get your rewards. You aren't "placing a bet" and waiting for a result, you need to actively play the game for your chance to "roll for loot."
That example that you used would only apply in the case of those players that pay to buy tickets, as I also explained. But several MMOs have similar paid features that allow you to be able to loot more often than without paying. There lies the problem, not in the gameplay itself and how you get your rewards normally, which are identical. A normal player without gambling addictions or compulsive disorders can play the games without paying a single cent and wouldn't notice any difference in regards to the gameplay that is offered when compared to other RPGs.
From what you have said I can see how the issue here is more what you can pay for rather than what you are doing, but do you pay for an item or pay for a chance of getting an item?
Both. You can buy skins directly, and you can buy currency to pull for characters. However, you CAN buy featured characters too, since you're guaranteed to get them after a certain number of pulls, as I explained before. I would remove this anyway, as I said, since it's actually as if Warframe allowed you to pay an unlimited number of times to get and open relics, or like when some MMOs allow you to buy chest keys or loot opportunities (well, it's worse when done in MMOs for obvious reasons), and I don't like that. But that doesn't alter the gameplay of the game or how you would play normally, especially since these are single player/co-op games and there's no competitive or PvP (well, there's in the case of specific events or in ZZZ's arcade salon, but your used character doesn't matter there since you use none, so whatever). I mean, I dislike it due to how it can affect some people that can't restrain themselves, but I can personally play normally without being bothered by it.
If we're still just talking about the gameplay, I think that this example that you used comes from a misconception of what Hoyo games' gameplay is like. They're essentially just like the typical JRPG (action-based in the case of Genshin and ZZZ, and turn-based in the case of Star Rail). The gameplay is just normal RPG gameplay: complete main and side quests, do dungeons, defeat bosses, pursue achievements, complete events, etc., and once you complete those you get your rewards. You aren't "placing a bet" and waiting for a result, you need to actively play the game for your chance to "roll for loot."
That example that you used would only apply in the case of those players that pay to buy tickets, as I also explained. But several MMOs have similar paid features that allow you to be able to loot more often than without paying. There lies the problem, not in the gameplay itself and how you get your rewards normally, which are identical. A normal player without gambling addictions or compulsive disorders can play the games without paying a single cent and wouldn't notice any difference in regards to the gameplay that is offered when compared to other RPGs.
From what you have said I can see how the issue here is more what you can pay for rather than what you are doing, but do you pay for an item or pay for a chance of getting an item?
Both. You can buy skins directly, and you can buy currency to pull for characters. However, you CAN buy featured characters too, since you're guaranteed to get them after a certain number of pulls, as I explained before. I would remove this anyway, as I said, since it's actually as if Warframe allowed you to pay an unlimited number of times to get and open relics, or like when some MMOs allow you to buy chest keys or loot opportunities (well, it's worse when done in MMOs for obvious reasons), and I don't like that. But that doesn't alter the gameplay of the game or how you would play normally, especially since these are single player/co-op games and there's no competitive or PvP (well, there's in the case of specific events or in ZZZ's arcade salon, but your used character doesn't matter there since you use none, so whatever). I mean, I dislike it due to how it can affect some people that can't restrain themselves, but I can personally play normally without being bothered by it.
If you can buy something outright then there is no gambling element, but it is still a big P2P flag of course.
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That example that you used would only apply in the case of those players that pay to buy tickets, as I also explained. But several MMOs have similar paid features that allow you to be able to loot more often than without paying. There lies the problem, not in the gameplay itself and how you get your rewards normally, which are identical. A normal player without gambling addictions or compulsive disorders can play the games without paying a single cent and wouldn't notice any difference in regards to the gameplay that is offered when compared to other RPGs.