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A Look At Legacy MMORPGs And How They Manage To Stay Relevant Decades After Their Release | MMORPG.c

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599
edited January 22 in News & Features Discussion

imageA Look At Legacy MMORPGs And How They Manage To Stay Relevant Decades After Their Release | MMORPG.com

So many MMOs on the market are games from yesteryear, with Legacy MMOs still chugging along decades after their launch. Emilien looks at how these MMOs manage their aging and stay relevant over time.

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Comments

  • ValdheimValdheim Member RarePosts: 729
    I wish I could get into FFXI. Maybe with the all the quality of life improvements it's now become more accessible, guess I have to give it another try
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,631
    What does CORPG stand for?
  • NephistosNephistos Member UncommonPosts: 16
    edited January 22

    Scot said:

    What does CORPG stand for?



    Competitive Online Role Playing Game
    Scot
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,631
    edited January 22
    Nephistos said:

    Scot said:

    What does CORPG stand for?



    Competitive Online Role Playing Game
    Well looking that up on google did not get me much in the way of results, I have always thought of GW1 as being in its own category, but I get where you are coming from. 

    "Ultimately, we wouldn't stick with these if they didn't give us something we could find anywhere else, right?"

    Exactly so, but I think we could have a whole article on another element of why legacy MMOs have survived, is there anything about their gameplay which is better? I think there is and the best kind of MMO would be a hybrid one, that takes from legacy and modern MMOs to forge the best gameplay.
    Samhael
  • NephistosNephistos Member UncommonPosts: 16

    Scot said:


    Nephistos said:



    Scot said:


    What does CORPG stand for?






    Competitive Online Role Playing Game


    Well looking that up on google did not get me much in the way of results, I have always thought of GW1 as being in its own category, but I get where you are coming from. 

    "Ultimately, we wouldn't stick with these if they didn't give us something we could find anywhere else, right?"

    Exactly so, but I think we could have a whole article on another element of why legacy MMOs have survived, is there anything about their gameplay which is better? I think there is and the best kind of MMO would be a hybrid one, that takes from legacy and modern MMOs to forge the best gameplay.



    It could certainly be interesting indeed. It all depends on what you mean by gameplay exactly? Most of the time it's shortened to 'combat gameplay', but here it could just as easily mean 'gameplay loop'.

    “the best kind of MMO would be a hybrid one": Well, I'd say that's what Ashes of Creation is trying to achieve. The project aims to offer a 'classic' gameplay loop ( long leveling, L2-style open world PvP system...) in a modern setup (thanks in particular to UE5). As far as combat gameplay is concerned, I think that something like ArcheAge (which Ashes of Creation is quite close to in this respect, in my opinion) and Guild Wars 2 would make the best compromise for the MMO community. Many players are intrigued by action gameplay (like New World or BDO), but in my opinion a huge proportion of players are also still very attached to tab-target. In fact, a 'hybrid' compromise such as these gameplays offer could surely reach the maximum number of people
  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 1,639
    Why do certain old games survive through time anyhow? Old Blizzard games are the perfect example. Starcraft and Warcraft 2 are the perfect examples. Hell, with modern resolutions(and few thingamabobs), they both are relevant and look good(WC2 especially) even today.

    So...why?
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,631
    edited January 22
    Nephistos said:


    It could certainly be interesting indeed. It all depends on what you mean by gameplay exactly? Most of the time it's shortened to 'combat gameplay', but here it could just as easily mean 'gameplay loop'.

    “the best kind of MMO would be a hybrid one": Well, I'd say that's what Ashes of Creation is trying to achieve. The project aims to offer a 'classic' gameplay loop ( long leveling, L2-style open world PvP system...) in a modern setup (thanks in particular to UE5). As far as combat gameplay is concerned, I think that something like ArcheAge (which Ashes of Creation is quite close to in this respect, in my opinion) and Guild Wars 2 would make the best compromise for the MMO community. Many players are intrigued by action gameplay (like New World or BDO), but in my opinion a huge proportion of players are also still very attached to tab-target. In fact, a 'hybrid' compromise such as these gameplays offer could surely reach the maximum number of people
    GW2 created a MMO where you could avoid reading about the quests you are going on, so not for me. In fact it made it hard to find which NPC to talk to if you wanted the details, at least when I was playing.

    When it comes to action combat there are two factors. Is it being done well, switching from tab target to action when the action combat is ropey is a poor choice. Secondly can action combat in a MMO ever equal that the likes of co-op and solo games, I think not and that is what it will be compared to, it will always seem second rate. That's why I have no issues with tab target in a new MMO though it is hardly a "must have" for me.

    I agree with your take on the likes of AoC, but there are so few new MMOs like which have launched to really see how well a hybrid MMO could do.
  • NephistosNephistos Member UncommonPosts: 16
    edited January 22
    I mentioned GW2 as a 'good compromise' only in regard of combat ^^ for the rest, and in particular quests you mention, there isn't much in the way of classics (even if I personally tend to prefer dynamic events to quests, it's all very subjective of course).

    "can action combat in a MMO ever equal that the likes of co-op and solo games" that's my big argument in favor of hybrid gameplay too. However, 2025 should bring us Chrono Odyssey and 2026 Archeage Chronicles, which highlight their action gameplay as a prime argument! I'm really curious to see the first actual gameplays with HUD.
    Scot
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,631
    I lean to action combat myself, and GW2 combat was good enough for me but I think many players have higher expectations than MMOs can manage, you see them complaining about that side of gameplay a lot. Quite happy with good turn based mind you, the most important thing for me is not the type of combat but that its good not second rate.

    I think modern MMOs need to look at the likes of large open worlds, raid and PvP end games, the importance of guilds, harder but not punishing levelling, social events and player sellers to bring back some of the old magic into the modern era. But there are many things that need to be left to history, there was a recent article on here about corpse runs, that is a good example of what we don't need.
    Samhael
  • GermzypieGermzypie Member UncommonPosts: 184
    DAoC live is on life support aka Broadsword. That "other" server that i am not sure if we can talk about here is thriving.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 33,118
    Scot said:
    Nephistos said:

    Scot said:

    What does CORPG stand for?



    Competitive Online Role Playing Game
    Well looking that up on google did not get me much in the way of results, I have always thought of GW1 as being in its own category, but I get where you are coming from. 

    "Ultimately, we wouldn't stick with these if they didn't give us something we could find anywhere else, right?"

    Exactly so, but I think we could have a whole article on another element of why legacy MMOs have survived, is there anything about their gameplay which is better? I think there is and the best kind of MMO would be a hybrid one, that takes from legacy and modern MMOs to forge the best gameplay.
    I believe the developers of guild wars 1 used that acronym for the game.
    Scot
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 33,118

    Germzypie said:
    DAoC live is on life support aka Broadsword. That "other" server that i am not sure if we can talk about here is thriving.
    Why do you think that is?
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • AngrakhanAngrakhan Member EpicPosts: 1,971
    edited January 22
    I think the Fallout 76 corpse run (although in game it's a brown paper lunch bag) mechanic is fine. You don't drop everything, just the junk category from your inventory. For anyone that doesn't play that boils down to you crafting materials. That and you pick a respawn point which can be right where you died although depending on the situation that may not be wise. Anyway it gives an incentive to go back depending on how much you dropped but it's not the end of the world if you abandon it like it would be in EQ. I think there's some compromises game developers can look at to use a derivative of a corpse run. The EQ corpse run was far too punishing. You could literally lose all your gear if you can't get the corpse back. Thank goodness they had the ability to grant someone you trust the ability to summon your corpse. If you died down in the bowels of some dungeon you might be out of luck otherwise. That being said using death as a fast travel mechanic ala WoW is kinda dumb. It's supposed to be a penalty, not a utility.
  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,612
    I think several of the games that survive had enormous budgets and development teams, reached a reasonable level of completeness, and then dropped back to a maintenance mode easily maintainable by a small team and community.  

    At one time you could buy a game that was complete (but still receiving improvements), I don't know if I've seen that for quite some time.

    That is different than a crowd funded game that never gets completed before being abandoned and dropped into maintenance mode.
  • AngrakhanAngrakhan Member EpicPosts: 1,971
    There's some games that release complete. Space Marine 2 comes to mind. There weren't any giant missing features or classes or content when that came out. They'll add to it, but it was a solid game start to finish out of the box. It's part of why it had such critical acclaim. That being said it's rare. Usually you get the early access money grab which is oh so tempting for developers. Due to early access I don't think we'll ever see a new MMO even hit beta before they're taking money for it ever again.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,435
    edited January 22
    Angrakhan said:
    I think the Fallout 76 corpse run (although in game it's a brown paper lunch bag) mechanic is fine. You don't drop everything, just the junk category from your inventory. For anyone that doesn't play that boils down to you crafting materials. That and you pick a respawn point which can be right where you died although depending on the situation that may not be wise. Anyway it gives an incentive to go back depending on how much you dropped but it's not the end of the world if you abandon it like it would be in EQ. I think there's some compromises game developers can look at to use a derivative of a corpse run. The EQ corpse run was far too punishing. You could literally lose all your gear if you can't get the corpse back. Thank goodness they had the ability to grant someone you trust the ability to summon your corpse. If you died down in the bowels of some dungeon you might be out of luck otherwise. That being said using death as a fast travel mechanic ala WoW is kinda dumb. It's supposed to be a penalty, not a utility.
    I was extremely fortunate in Everquest to be able to get my corpse every time with the single exception of a nightmare excursion to Fear that ended in a 36 hour corpse run. I only used the necromancer ability to get your corpse to the dungeon entrance once in Chardok I think. I don't think I can play like that again. It was far too punishing and honestly excessive if you're talking about teaching a player caution and prudence because oft times you're screwed because someone else made a mistake.

    Games last for the simple reason that newer games do not offer the same  or superior option or mechanics. Which current game offers the variety of classes Dark Age of Camelot does or for that matter which game offers that danger FFXI or Everquest does. People play the game because they are invested and cannot find better mechanics , class choices, variety in gameplay or challenges. Nowadays a lot of games are more action orientated which further separates the older games and the present ones.
    Garrus Signature
  • TiredOfFantasyTiredOfFantasy Newbie CommonPosts: 23
    Valdheim said:
    I wish I could get into FFXI. Maybe with the all the quality of life improvements it's now become more accessible, guess I have to give it another try
    Try the private servers, most have graphic upgrades to take the Playstation 2 stain off the game. Plus you won't need to lose brain cells dealing with SE's PlayOnline bullshit.
    Valdheim
  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member EpicPosts: 1,317

    Germzypie said:

    DAoC live is on life support aka Broadsword. That "other" server that i am not sure if we can talk about here is thriving.



    That's interesting. I would absolutely play DAoC if there was a population. I think if one server is thriving, it's because of that.
    Elidien_ga
  • Elidien_gaElidien_ga Member RarePosts: 464

    Germzypie said:

    DAoC live is on life support aka Broadsword. That "other" server that i am not sure if we can talk about here is thriving.



    That's interesting. I would absolutely play DAoC if there was a population. I think if one server is thriving, it's because of that.
    Update the UI especially for widescreen monitors, make the interface mouse and click based, upgrade character movement speed, and some polish and I would play DAOC like I did at launch.
    ultimateduckValdheim
  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member EpicPosts: 1,317
    I play on a super ultra wide and DAoC looks great. Getting custom UIs is dificult.

    I'd like an update that allows me to use my num pad for movement and hotkeys as I am a lefty. Currently, I can not due to the game not recognizing a [num locked] num pad.

    I think movement speed is ok, especially considering run speed is a skill that some classes rely on to a certain degree.

  • GorweGorwe Member Posts: 1,639
    edited January 22
    Scot said:
    Nephistos said:


    It could certainly be interesting indeed. It all depends on what you mean by gameplay exactly? Most of the time it's shortened to 'combat gameplay', but here it could just as easily mean 'gameplay loop'.

    “the best kind of MMO would be a hybrid one": Well, I'd say that's what Ashes of Creation is trying to achieve. The project aims to offer a 'classic' gameplay loop ( long leveling, L2-style open world PvP system...) in a modern setup (thanks in particular to UE5). As far as combat gameplay is concerned, I think that something like ArcheAge (which Ashes of Creation is quite close to in this respect, in my opinion) and Guild Wars 2 would make the best compromise for the MMO community. Many players are intrigued by action gameplay (like New World or BDO), but in my opinion a huge proportion of players are also still very attached to tab-target. In fact, a 'hybrid' compromise such as these gameplays offer could surely reach the maximum number of people
    GW2 created a MMO where you could avoid reading about the quests you are going on, so not for me. In fact it made it hard to find which NPC to talk to if you wanted the details, at least when I was playing.

    When it comes to action combat there are two factors. Is it being done well, switching from tab target to action when the action combat is ropey is a poor choice. Secondly can action combat in a MMO ever equal that the likes of co-op and solo games, I think not and that is what it will be compared to, it will always seem second rate. That's why I have no issues with tab target in a new MMO though it is hardly a "must have" for me.

    I agree with your take on the likes of AoC, but there are so few new MMOs like which have launched to really see how well a hybrid MMO could do.

    GW 2 has many fine features, but "Guild Wars" 2, it is not(outside of names). Not only is the story and overall lore paper thin(unless you get FOMO'd out of your mind to get something better), but what people loved about Guild Wars 1(full customization) is also gone. One BIG difference(instances + outposts) is also gone.

    Again, GW2 is a great game, but I think it's just milking the GW brand. Should be named something else.
    Scot
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 4,074
    Sovrath said:

    Germzypie said:
    DAoC live is on life support aka Broadsword. That "other" server that i am not sure if we can talk about here is thriving.
    Why do you think that is?

    Private servers are free.

    Before Blizzard released WoW Classic many many people told Blizzard "I want to play the old version of WoW, the new stuff is weird and scary. If you make a classic server I'll totally play it. I promise"
    Then the "you think you want it but you really dont" memes happened, then Blizzard released WoW Classic and a lot of those people were like "oh, I have to pay money for this? Uh ...hmm ...I'll stick to the private servers, thanks"
    SovrathScot
  • NephistosNephistos Member UncommonPosts: 16

    Xiaoki said:


    Sovrath said:



    Germzypie said:

    DAoC live is on life support aka Broadsword. That "other" server that i am not sure if we can talk about here is thriving.


    Why do you think that is?



    Private servers are free.

    Before Blizzard released WoW Classic many many people told Blizzard "I want to play the old version of WoW, the new stuff is weird and scary. If you make a classic server I'll totally play it. I promise"
    Then the "you think you want it but you really dont" memes happened, then Blizzard released WoW Classic and a lot of those people were like "oh, I have to pay money for this? Uh ...hmm ...I'll stick to the private servers, thanks"



    Money is part of the explanation but I'm not sure how much to be honest. The most popular of these private servers offer something different: a mix of classes, modified progression, different rules - I'd even go so far as to say that SoD is inspired by what's done over there.
  • OldLadyWhoOldLadyWho Member UncommonPosts: 4
    That version of DAOC that is doing well, just think about going to Eden. They're doing the right things that the official game no longer does. It's on life support because it's under the Electronic Arts umbrella. 
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,435
    How long has it been since City of Heroes came out and Homecoming has been out since 2019 , the resurrection of City. Well today yes even today, there are enough people to create multiple level 1 groups to the very first Task force in Atlas. You see LFG channel full of DFB and asking for people to join. People are continuously making new alts in City of Heroes/Villains. 

    If you want to talk about staying power look no further than this game. Grouping is so much fun and goes on all the time. Humungous amount of content and excellent writing. What game currently released a newer one can boast that?
    Scot
    Garrus Signature
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