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TomB's new dev blog...

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  • Nu11u5Nu11u5 Member Posts: 597

    And for the EVE Account Impaired...


    exploration: lack of content
    reported by TomB | 2006.05.26 09:26:22 | NEW | Comments
    Diary entry of the monstrously bad-looking developer pt. I

    The world we created still feels a little bit dull for players that are not much into PvP, alliance operations & politics and other activities that don’t involve other players. The group of players that come in mind that feel this lack are mostly the new comers and solo players. How do we fix that? We create the content of course, but the bigger question is:

    How do we do that?
    Our development team faces a battle about whether we should create instanced content vs. static content. Creating instanced or random generated content would be the easiest solution, especially with so many players playing the game, but we want to be true to the world. Creating static content on the other hand would mean that in couple of days everyone would know about them and they would simply be camped/farmed to death, where a simple time zone difference can mean that you won’t ever be able to enjoy specific content if it’s known by the Sir Farm Alot corporation.

    How do we fix that?
    That’s what hides under codename Exploration, it will be the start and the biggest step so far into the direction of adding content into the world that will neither be instanced nor static. Why we call it Exploration is because it requires players to explore, something we have feel is missing from the game, other than to see the Monolith or other land(space)marks. Exploration will require scanning, which is getting dramatically overhauled, so dramatically that some might cry in joy.

    But how does it work?
    That’s a secret, but since you asked so kindly I’ll give you a short version;

    We are creating a distribution mechanic that will deploy hidden locations throughout space, pockets which will move to new locations when they feel like it, but dependent on what the pilots are doing in the world. With this Exploration system, players of all types will be able to strike gold, hit the jack pot, find the golden pot under the rainbow or what ever someone might call it.

    Locations might become a gold rush that could even be “sold” to a big group of players if found, but the gold might be to heavy for a solo player to carry on his own. We would like to create a supported mechanic for selling locations where people wouldn’t get an empty scenario but so far the only thing that came in mind was creating something with bookmarks which is not such a good idea (If you think bookmarks are a hot topic on the forums, you should see the discussions here in the CCP Offices! :) ).

    What will we get?
    At first we will use this system to deploy “normal” scenarios such as; complexes, ice/asteroid fields, agents and other things into the world. As the system matures, we will be able to make some locations or encounters rarer and harder to find. We might also use exploration as a new way to distribute resources and there are some other areas where the Exploration system looks promising for future ultra hot stuff, really ultra hot, did I mention something really really ultra hot?

    Will this be the cure?
    It’s brand new, so we know there will be adjustments, revisions and changes made to it, but it’s still a very promising system and we hope to use it to distribute a lot of new content into the world.

    But we will still continue developing & creating existing content; we won't remove any existing content or move it to the new system unless we feel this will meet the expectations of the players, and also continue in our journey to find the T5 perfection of making the EVE world more alive and real.


    //insert sig here
  • binjuicebinjuice Member Posts: 363
    I can't believe it, finally having a frigate decked out for scanning will be useful... *jumps for joy* Logistics FTW!

    *sighs* now for Kali to be released...

    *sits down and waits patiently as scanning skills get better* muahhahhahahhahhahhaaa...

    Sorry to be so happy >.<


    image

    "Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow

  • daeandordaeandor Member UncommonPosts: 2,694
    It is going to be interesting.  Sadly, I think that it won't take long for someone to figure out how to make these locations "spawn" and then it will just become the EVE version of triggered spawn farming.
  • GlacianNexGlacianNex Member UncommonPosts: 627


    Originally posted by daeandor
    It is going to be interesting.  Sadly, I think that it won't take long for someone to figure out how to make these locations "spawn" and then it will just become the EVE version of triggered spawn farming.

    Doubt that will happen, for over 4 years people were not able to figure out the algorithm CCP uses to respawn asteroids that could be mined. Nor were they able to figuire out at what frequency or locations will named pirates will spawn. I am sure same will apply here.
  • Nu11u5Nu11u5 Member Posts: 597

    Most of the ways CCP does spawning (as with asteroids and officers) is completely random, over a very unlocalized area. It will probably end up being impossible to predict when and where specifically an explorable area will appear (or disappear for that matter).

    I am very much looking forwards to what this could open up. This could even help the development of player created complexes. I see these taking on similar roles to some Starbase (POS) set ups and possibly also involving planets or their populations.

    One thing that I think CCP should work on is Triggerable Effects and Events. I've always wondered why blowing up that Comms Array or Ammo Warehouse in XYZ complex had no effect on the game world (whether just on the complex itself, or on a global scale). I think having some complexes and explorable areas 'linked' by certain effects that can alter the scenario a bit would add a lot more depth to the PvE portion of the game (and could be expanded into PvP as well).

    There really are a lot of possibilities for a system like this when you think about it.

    //insert sig here
  • Ranma13Ranma13 Member Posts: 747


    Originally posted by Urza123
    Doubt that will happen, for over 4 years people were not able to figure out the algorithm CCP uses to respawn asteroids that could be mined.

    Random randomSeed = new Random(12345689);
    spawnAsteroids(new Random(randomSeed));

    It's not very hard to make something random enough that people can't predict it easily.

  • zimmy910zimmy910 Member UncommonPosts: 190

    Doesnt sound very exciting, and will take ages to implement.... Nice theyre trying though.

  • GlacianNexGlacianNex Member UncommonPosts: 627


    Originally posted by zimmy910

    Doesnt sound very exciting, and will take ages to implement.... Nice theyre trying though.


    I am not sure how long it takes for your games company to implement what they promice, but CCP for the last 2 years was pritty honest in reguard to what they say and what they do. These features are scheduled for September, will it happen? I dont know time will tell but if I have to choose between CCP's word vs the word of just about any other company out there I would take CCPs.
  • GlacianNexGlacianNex Member UncommonPosts: 627


    Originally posted by Ranma13


    Originally posted by Urza123
    Doubt that will happen, for over 4 years people were not able to figure out the algorithm CCP uses to respawn asteroids that could be mined.


    Random randomSeed = new Random(12345689);
    spawnAsteroids(new Random(randomSeed));

    It's not very hard to make something random enough that people can't predict it easily.


    I understand what you mean, but it is not done randomly as in using random seed generator (which is not really random) but that is besides the point. They do use some sort of algorith it was stated a lot of times by CCP and by a lot of players who were trying to figure it out but no one clear on how it works .... yet. =)
  • SnikesSnikes Member UncommonPosts: 76

    That is just plainly awesome. not so long ago I got flamed on this forum because I pointed that lack of content in the Eve Universe and now CCP is just adressing the problem. I can't wait for these features to be implemented.

    That is sooooo great.

  • Ranma13Ranma13 Member Posts: 747


    Originally posted by Urza123

    Originally posted by Ranma13Originally posted by Urza123Doubt that will happen, for over 4 years people were not able to figure out the algorithm CCP uses to respawn asteroids that could be mined.
    Random randomSeed = new Random(12345689);spawnAsteroids(new Random(randomSeed));
    It's not very hard to make something random enough that people can't predict it easily.
    I understand what you mean, but it is not done randomly as in using random seed generator (which is not really random) but that is besides the point. They do use some sort of algorith it was stated a lot of times by CCP and by a lot of players who were trying to figure it out but no one clear on how it works .... yet. =)

    An algorithm can use a random seed. The definition of an algorithm is a set of discrete operations that can solve a problem within a finite amount of time. Nothing in there says that it can't use random numbers. To cite an example, I can generate a random number and use an algorithm to check whether if it's prime or not.
  • duncan_922duncan_922 Member Posts: 1,670
    Nice and innovative...   It's good to see that CCP is concentrating on being fresh while others go for the "me-too"...

    SOE knows what you like... You don't!
    And don't forget... I am forcing you to read this!

  • squeeesqueee Member Posts: 722


    Originally posted by Ranma13



    Originally posted by Urza123
    Doubt that will happen, for over 4 years people were not able to figure out the algorithm CCP uses to respawn asteroids that could be mined.


    Random randomSeed = new Random(12345689);
    spawnAsteroids(new Random(randomSeed));

    It's not very hard to make something random enough that people can't predict it easily.


    Heh I thought the same thing when I read that.  Yes we all know random on a computer is not really random, cry me a river, but such is the spawns in belts and thus is why they will never be figured out.
  • RychekRychek Member Posts: 55
    actually it is pretty easy to get (what amounts too) a real random on a computer. Just ask it to gather the variable from current time, but from the ten-thousandth of a second position.

    image

  • Nu11u5Nu11u5 Member Posts: 597


    Originally posted by Rychek
    actually it is pretty easy to get (what amounts too) a real random on a computer. Just ask it to gather the variable from current time, but from the ten-thousandth of a second position.

    Yes, but with that method, if two events happen at the exact same time, then their outcome will be exactly the same as well.

    Though this is very rare, it does happen, and in fact happened to me in a programming course. The program was to create a random seed from the system time, and using that seed, draw a series of random objects on the screen. On guy in the class started his program at the exact (system) time as mine, and we had identical results (there were several hundred objects on the screen, and I spent a long time comparing them).

    "True" random number generators do exists. They are usually devices that look at some element of nature and try to quantize it. Examples of this is a digital camera focused on a lava lamp, or something as simple as analyzing the background noise in a circuit.

    //insert sig here
  • belonnabelonna Member Posts: 67

    well simply put i bet noone in the eve universe has the mathamitcal abililty pateince and hacking ability to get all the randomising algorithms let alone desipher them that is the key to internet security using prime numbers built on top of eachother

    the next thing is that when creating a real randomiser the you wouldnt just use time you could use anything hell for all we know the random seed could be using

    time X temp of server X number of players logged in in the last 25 seconds / number of developers= spawn officer in ________ region

    you dont have to have only 1 variable

    also snikes mate a few weeks ago you got flamed mate have you noticed that the ali patch info has been on the eve site for longer than that and in the blog he says "hidden under the name exploration...." or sumthing like that.

    since i read it i was wondering about wat the exploration part of it is and now we know sum of it. thanx for osting the link man

    Live, Breath, Cause. HaVoK

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