Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

3.17 Opinions

123457»

Comments

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,774
    edited November 2022
    Not sure how these terms are even defined ?

    Google lists the following games as examples for both "space sim" and "sci-fi exploration games":

    Star Citizen
    No Man's Sky
    EVE
    Kerbal Space Program
    Elite Dangerous

    Wikipedia doesnt recognize either term.
    NMS doesn't pitch itself as a space sim, the core reason of like posted NMS avoided that terminology it's because it's sci-fi, it does its own laws and physics and is not trying to be or feel realistic about it.

    Generally a space sim visibly pushes the physics department to have as much simulation on the ship flight and dogfighting, doesn't need to be a fully realistic thing but still physics sim based model with a decent amount of depth.

    Which is what separates games like Space Engine, the X games and such, from the sci-fi titles like NMS, they have difference audiences.


    Kinda like the difference between Stardew Valley or Farm Together and the Farming Simulator 22 as far farming games go.
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    point is moot SC isnt even a game. At best its a tech demo but in reality its a perpetual development scam that never has to produce anything because saps are willing to continually throw money at it for whatever reason.
    Champie
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,074
    I met a Star Citizen at a Kava bar, once.  He tried to get me to join his corp, or something.  Somewhat religiously zealous... but I feel ya, space brother.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • WargfootWargfoot Member RarePosts: 1,024
    rodarin said:
    point is moot SC isnt even a game. At best its a tech demo but in reality its a perpetual development scam that never has to produce anything because saps are willing to continually throw money at it for whatever reason.
    I don't think anyone actually believes the 'funds raised' numbers that are posted.
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,418
    Wargfoot said:
    rodarin said:
    point is moot SC isnt even a game. At best its a tech demo but in reality its a perpetual development scam that never has to produce anything because saps are willing to continually throw money at it for whatever reason.
    I don't think anyone actually believes the 'funds raised' numbers that are posted.

    The CIG brass would be crazy not to manipulate the numbers to their advantage.

    And given the shenanigans surrounding the Freelancer/Wing Commander movie finances, there's no reason to think they aren't doing that.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,774
    edited June 2023
    Wargfoot said:
    rodarin said:
    point is moot SC isnt even a game. At best its a tech demo but in reality its a perpetual development scam that never has to produce anything because saps are willing to continually throw money at it for whatever reason.
    I don't think anyone actually believes the 'funds raised' numbers that are posted.

    The CIG brass would be crazy not to manipulate the numbers to their advantage.
    There are both the UK audit financials that in line with what they state on the global financials, docs that accounted for 500 employees of the total 700 (in 2021), numbers currently stated at ~800 in-house.

    On the global numbers as well, due to the fact they have % ownership investors I think it's illegal in the US as well to state fabricated financial numbers under that context.

    This kind of talk is always so baseless, if they been constantly increasing costs, as even the audit financials evidence, then that money has to be coming in, they haven't moved to fancy new big offices on the UK and Germany this year, with a whole mocap studio on top, out of not having the money to do so.


    Tl:Dr: They making dem big bucks, the "90 days tops" has been like 8 years ago now lol
    Erillion
  • WargfootWargfoot Member RarePosts: 1,024
    MaxBacon said:

    There are both the UK audit financials that in line with what they state on the global financials, docs that accounted for 500 employees of the total 700 (in 2021), numbers currently stated at ~800 in-house.
    It is important for you to understand that I don't think you are being deceitful.
    However, I don't believe the 800 people number either.


  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,774
    edited June 2023
    Wargfoot said:
    It is important for you to understand that I don't think you are being deceitful.
    However, I don't believe the 800 people number either.
    It's an easy number to get to once the gov auditted UK financials account for 500 of those. Then: Germany, Austin and LA offices only had to make up for 200 more. (2021 numbers, no data for 2022 yet)

    Germany moved to big new office this year too, https://www.one-frankfurt.de/en/cloud-imperium-games-rents-around-3000-sqm-of-office-space-at-one/  

    So it's pretty non-discussion to me, it's not much of a belief matter when there's evidence they do indeed employ a huge amount of people.
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,418
    Sorry Max, but the Freelancer debacle points to financial chicanery.  The UK CIG audits cover UK interests, not the whole project.  And the big company is surrounded by a constellation of shell companies, making the trail very difficult to follow.

    I once tried to track down the financing for the Wing Commander movie, and guess what?  It led to a series of shell companies, and petered out before I could find where the original money came from. 

    Also, an accountant friend of mine once told me, 'If your company is showing excess profits, you need to get a new accountant.'

    All the UK financials are great to have, but by definition, shady deals would not be in them. Lay you odds that all the hard infrastructure used in Star Citizen is owned by Roberts, independent of CIG.  Picked up pretty cheap in all likelihood.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    It's so convoluted and shady I am surprised it wasnt on the Hunter Biden laptop.....
  • WargfootWargfoot Member RarePosts: 1,024
    MaxBacon said:
    Wargfoot said:
    It is important for you to understand that I don't think you are being deceitful.
    However, I don't believe the 800 people number either.
    It's an easy number to get to once the gov auditted UK financials account for 500 of those. Then: Germany, Austin and LA offices only had to make up for 200 more. (2021 numbers, no data for 2022 yet)

    Germany moved to big new office this year too, https://www.one-frankfurt.de/en/cloud-imperium-games-rents-around-3000-sqm-of-office-space-at-one/  

    So it's pretty non-discussion to me, it's not much of a belief matter when there's evidence they do indeed employ a huge amount of people.
    A perfectly sane response.
    I still don't believe it.
  • AngrakhanAngrakhan Member EpicPosts: 1,407
    MaxBacon said:

    Generally a space sim visibly pushes the physics department to have as much simulation on the ship flight and dogfighting, doesn't need to be a fully realistic thing but still physics sim based model with a decent amount of depth.
    Good thing they don't have to be fully realistic since there's absolutely nothing realistic about dogfights in space. If there's ever actual combat in space it will occur at distances so far the opponents are only dots in the sky and they'll be traveling at well over 10,000 miles per hour meaning any sort of dogfighting is out of the question because the g forces would kill the people inside the ship. AI would likely controlling the weapon systems and everything would be over very quickly. Point being none of this is realistic so game companies should focus on making it fun over pouring decades into R&D to create something "realistic" that isn't.

    CIG should have stuck to the original plan of just building a modern version of Wing Commander maybe with some co-op but mostly a single player game. They would have released the game years ago to critical acclaim and we'd be all talking about what we want in a sequel.
    Slapshot1188
  • WargfootWargfoot Member RarePosts: 1,024
    Angrakhan said:
    MaxBacon said:

    Generally a space sim visibly pushes the physics department to have as much simulation on the ship flight and dogfighting, doesn't need to be a fully realistic thing but still physics sim based model with a decent amount of depth.
    CIG should have stuck to the original plan of just building a modern version of Wing Commander maybe with some co-op but mostly a single player game. They would have released the game years ago to critical acclaim and we'd be all talking about what we want in a sequel.
    I have often thought this would be a good approach.

    You could develop a single player game and get many systems in place (design, assets, etc).  The company is then making money.

    Then roll all those assets over into a muliplayer game.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,774
    edited July 2023
    Angrakhan said:
    Good thing they don't have to be fully realistic since there's absolutely nothing realistic about dogfights in space. If there's ever actual combat in space it will occur at distances so far the opponents are only dots in the sky and they'll be traveling at well over 10,000 miles per hour meaning any sort of dogfighting is out of the question because the g forces would kill the people inside the ship. AI would likely controlling the weapon systems and everything would be over very quickly. Point being none of this is realistic so game companies should focus on making it fun over pouring decades into R&D to create something "realistic" that isn't.
    The simulation bits of SC are more on the depth of mechanics, more as, not skipping steps, this is why SC can have this appeal for example on that open multi-crew with ship interiors, EVA, etc, relying on a lot of physics to play proper seamlessly. That sort of approach is exactly what makes SC's appeal to me, because the more simulation the more sandboxy a feature is and freedom players have to approach any given situation.

    So I wouldn't put the simulation and especially physicalization approach that SC pushes on, as an equal to realism because it's not quite that.

    They seem to be invested on the flight model recently say like making dogfighting play out in close proximity instead of shooting at the pip of a target you hardly see, and to make fights last longer, which is prob the remaining big element to implement on ships, armor.

    And I like that approach because fighting with dots on the screen hasn't been much fun vs the moments where it's close proximity and you can target enemy ship components, that's more like it.


    Angrakhan said:
    CIG should have stuck to the original plan of just building a modern version of Wing Commander maybe with some co-op but mostly a single player game. They would have released the game years ago to critical acclaim and we'd be all talking about what we want in a sequel.
    Wargfoot said:
    I have often thought this would be a good approach.

    You could develop a single player game and get many systems in place (design, assets, etc).  The company is then making money.

    Then roll all those assets over into a muliplayer game.

    That's like... what they did and still do, you can say SC is developed on the SQ42 codebase branch, everything that'd be used by both games has been primarly been dev on the SP campaign codebase. On the bits of footage where they may show the game editor talking upcoming SC stuff, you can often see this:



    Despite that campaign focus, that did not stop them from redoing, refactoring things they already done. It then paints a clearer picture that the SP campaign went into a drag instead of releasing early and free up resources to SC, which is how this was supposed to go.

    Until they actually call it and "lock" the SP campaign scope to get it out... this current situation transpires to be very inneficient. 
  • WargfootWargfoot Member RarePosts: 1,024
    MaxBacon said:
    That's like... what they did and still do, you can say SC is developed on the SQ42 codebase branch, everything that'd be used by both games has been primarly been dev on the SP campaign codebase. 
    No, the point is to release the single player game first to generate revenue and to essentially begin testing for the multiplayer.   The single player game is an avenue to test balance issues, look for bugs, and to begin generating revenue.

    SC appears to be releasing the multiplayer first. (as far as I can tell)
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,774
    edited July 2023
    Wargfoot said:
    MaxBacon said:
    That's like... what they did and still do, you can say SC is developed on the SQ42 codebase branch, everything that'd be used by both games has been primarly been dev on the SP campaign codebase. 
    No, the point is to release the single player game first to generate revenue and to essentially begin testing for the multiplayer.   The single player game is an avenue to test balance issues, look for bugs, and to begin generating revenue.

    SC appears to be releasing the multiplayer first. (as far as I can tell)
    Not exactly even the development priorities fo the PU on the fist years were pretty much even the ships that were also used in SQ42, it was prioritized under that logic.

    But this is also why SC has ignored the server work front for the first years and now we're in the situation we're on, where essential tech bits to get the MMO infastructure UP are coming online very late.


    The entire balance set and even how mechanics can exist will differ from SP to MP, because in SP they can go into more detail with more expensive physics, detailed AI behaviors and such, and when it gets to MP where this has to be simulated server-side they run into a brick wall and need refactoring to make something viable on SC that is more of a non-issue on a SP context.



    A clear example of this, if we look at SC as is, they pitch all that detailed AI behaviors, subsumptionand such, which is pretty much stuff done primarly for SQ42's pitch (the living crew, the sims like simulation)... And then you get to the SC implementation and it hardly works on the MP context, then what we have is an half-broken AI that is let this way for years until they get devs to do SC-specific work to improve the AI.
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,418
    Bet some people here believe that 'Lost' had a coherent, planned storyline as well.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,503
    Yikes, more comments that didn't age well. lol it's not like you can't look up companies financials. 

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

Sign In or Register to comment.