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The Kickstarter MMO is Dead | OGR | MMORPG.com

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,011
    edited March 2023
    Scot said:

    "It remains in Early Access", so it cannot be regarded as a success, but I applaud the passion that has kept it going.
    I'm not sure... think about something like Valheim.  Massive hit.  Still listed as Early Access.

    A large part of this issue is that we just allow people to use words however they want.  MMO, RPG, Early Access, Alpha, Beta...

    The terms have been so badly mutilated that they are almost meaningless any longer.  
    You are right, I am using the term success as I see it, for me early access has been a bane on the gaming industry. In terms of the gaming industry any early access that did as well as Valhiem is a massive success and simply getting the gaming community to accept EA has been a massive success as well.

    We now have a Next Fest on Steam and early access titles are on game passes, early access is the new launch. Gaming going on to the internet caused more then enough of these problems, early access is a recipe for lack of polish, content you name it. The successful games that were in EA do not define what has happened, all the games languishing in early access, all the players who dipped a toe in and are now bored of the game or indeed payed for something that was never completed define what early access is.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,011
    edited March 2023
    lotrlore said:
    Scot said:

    "It remains in Early Access", so it cannot be regarded as a success, but I applaud the passion that has kept it going.
    I'm not sure... think about something like Valheim.  Massive hit.  Still listed as Early Access.

    A large part of this issue is that we just allow people to use words however they want.  MMO, RPG, Early Access, Alpha, Beta...

    The terms have been so badly mutilated that they are almost meaningless any longer.  
    Fortnite was technically in Early Access for years while it funded Epic Games' entire empire. Early Access is just the new "released." And it's why you've started to see sites review early access titles like they are released titles ( we will be starting that this year ourselves).
    That will put the cat among the pigeon's, once they get a score based on their EA they are going to hold back and polish before going to EA. Best news this year gaming wise. 
    Post edited by Scot on
    Mendel
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,879
    Scot said:
    Scot said:

    "It remains in Early Access", so it cannot be regarded as a success, but I applaud the passion that has kept it going.
    I'm not sure... think about something like Valheim.  Massive hit.  Still listed as Early Access.

    A large part of this issue is that we just allow people to use words however they want.  MMO, RPG, Early Access, Alpha, Beta...

    The terms have been so badly mutilated that they are almost meaningless any longer.  
    In terms of the gaming industry any early access that did as well as Valhiem is a massive success and simply getting the gaming community to accept EA has been a massive success as well.

    We now have a Next Fest on Steam and early access titles are on game passes, early access is the new launch.  

    You do realize who is to blame for all of this, right?

    Gamers who enthusiastically buy into all of it.

    Which doesn't include me ....(outside of once buying an Albion Online Founders pack)

    ;)




    LynxJSAScot

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,402
    Scot said:
    lotrlore said:
    Scot said:

    "It remains in Early Access", so it cannot be regarded as a success, but I applaud the passion that has kept it going.
    I'm not sure... think about something like Valheim.  Massive hit.  Still listed as Early Access.

    A large part of this issue is that we just allow people to use words however they want.  MMO, RPG, Early Access, Alpha, Beta...

    The terms have been so badly mutilated that they are almost meaningless any longer.  
    Fortnite was technically in Early Access for years while it funded Epic Games' entire empire. Early Access is just the new "released." And it's why you've started to see sites review early access titles like they are released titles ( we will be starting that this year ourselves).
    That will put the cat among the pigeon's, once the get a score based on their EA they are going to hold back and polish before going to EA. Best news this year gaming wise. 
    The challenge is that many reviewers tend to weigh “potential” in reviews which is always dangerous territory because I strays from what exists to what might or might not someday exist. 
    MendelKyleranScot

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,402
    edited March 2023
    A note on the depths to which Early Access has sunk.

    I am playing a game and have been chatting with the developers on their Discord.  This is an Early Access game which I won’t name.  Anyhow, the game is fun, but certainly far from finished and very buggy.  Even as far as player accounts not being able to login or servers needing to be restored from backups days earlier.

    Basically a 2 man team, and quite friendly.  But about a week ago I was DMed a test key to their New Game… which one of the Devs explained he had literally made over a single weekend and got it on Steam.  It will be free to all who own the original game but it just speaks to the facts that there is simply no pressure to complete the EA games and also how bad Steam is that they can list a game that literally was put together by 1 guy over 2 days. 
    KyleranScot

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,402
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Scot said:

    "It remains in Early Access", so it cannot be regarded as a success, but I applaud the passion that has kept it going.
    I'm not sure... think about something like Valheim.  Massive hit.  Still listed as Early Access.

    A large part of this issue is that we just allow people to use words however they want.  MMO, RPG, Early Access, Alpha, Beta...

    The terms have been so badly mutilated that they are almost meaningless any longer.  
    In terms of the gaming industry any early access that did as well as Valhiem is a massive success and simply getting the gaming community to accept EA has been a massive success as well.

    We now have a Next Fest on Steam and early access titles are on game passes, early access is the new launch.  

    You do realize who is to blame for all of this, right?

    Gamers who enthusiastically buy into all of it.

    Which doesn't include me ....(outside of once buying an Albion Online Founders pack)

    ;)




    Which is why it's been so frustrating for years.  If you complain you trigger folks to reflexively yell "Don't tell me how to spend my money' or "If I want to do X it doesn't affect you so leave me alone".

    But at the end of the day, it DOES affect me. It affects all of us. F2P, Cashshop, Early Access, CryptoGaming, Kickstarter Scams...   All impact our community.

    KyleranLynxJSANildenMendelTheDalaiBomba

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,333

    But at the end of the day, it DOES affect me. It affects all of us. F2P, Cashshop, Early Access, CryptoGaming, Kickstarter Scams...   All impact our community.

    Well said. 
    Kyleran
    -- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG 
    RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? 
    FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?  
  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    You mean to tell me that giving companies your money, no-strings-attached, *didn't* result in a veritable gamer's cornucopia?

    The fact that it took this many projects to get here is honestly a strike against the intelligence of humanity.
    ScotKyleranMendelNilden
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    You mean to tell me that giving companies your money, no-strings-attached, *didn't* result in a veritable gamer's cornucopia?

    The fact that it took this many projects to get here is honestly a strike against the intelligence of humanity.
    Well they were selling hope, dreams, and promises. Let's face it the average person is not a rocket scientist, myself included, I for one backed more than a couple of these train wrecks.

    However like I posted earlier that well has been thoroughly poisoned. I won't back anything again. In fact I put money down on EQ Next and thought that was going to be something and Daybreak just kept my cash and delivered nothing. So it's not just kickstarter or crowd funding that is guilty of this. 

    Good luck pulling any of this junk now though. You would have to be eating paint chips or have more money than brains to back anything making promises like that today. Then again Dreamworld asked for 10k to make the best MMO evar and got 60k so...

    I now wait a month before even considering buying into something and watch a couple hours worth of video and read multiple reviews etc. The studio actually has to present a game I can play to get my money. No more hopes and dreams for me and I think the average person has caught onto this as well.

    The developers and studios brought this on themselves and have ruined it for anyone that actually COULD use kickstarter and make a successful MMO. Although with the monumental mountain of failure that is the kickstarter MMORPG I think the odds of any studio making something were next to nothing anyway.

    So when I see stuff like:

    Early access is the new release.

    or

    Publishers exist for a reason.

    I'm just nodding my head. At the same time I think it was worth the shot to try and put some money into these options but after so much failure that ship has sailed.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

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  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Scot said:

    "It remains in Early Access", so it cannot be regarded as a success, but I applaud the passion that has kept it going.
    I'm not sure... think about something like Valheim.  Massive hit.  Still listed as Early Access.

    A large part of this issue is that we just allow people to use words however they want.  MMO, RPG, Early Access, Alpha, Beta...

    The terms have been so badly mutilated that they are almost meaningless any longer.  
    In terms of the gaming industry any early access that did as well as Valhiem is a massive success and simply getting the gaming community to accept EA has been a massive success as well.

    We now have a Next Fest on Steam and early access titles are on game passes, early access is the new launch.  

    You do realize who is to blame for all of this, right?

    Gamers who enthusiastically buy into all of it.

    Which doesn't include me ....(outside of once buying an Albion Online Founders pack)

    ;)




    Which is why it's been so frustrating for years.  If you complain you trigger folks to reflexively yell "Don't tell me how to spend my money' or "If I want to do X it doesn't affect you so leave me alone".

    But at the end of the day, it DOES affect me. It affects all of us. F2P, Cashshop, Early Access, CryptoGaming, Kickstarter Scams...   All impact our community.

    Nothing happens in a vacuum.

    Every dollar spent on Kickstarter projects is a dollar encouraging more Kickstarter projects, and a dollar no longer available to support traditionally-funded games.
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,879
    Somehow this keeps coming to mind every time I see this thread title..


    maskedweaselNildenScot

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,443
    Kyleran said:
    Somehow this keeps coming to mind every time I see this thread title..


    In glorious Technicolor! 

    And the aftershoot parties were supposed to be pretty badass.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,445
    As my father used to say, if wishes were horses hay would be scarce.

    Wish on little pony, wish on.
    Scot
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,445
    caalem said:
    It's not dead if it was never alive.

    Kingdom Come: Deliverance had one of the most successful video game kickstarters ever. Do you know how much of the total development budget it paid for?
    About 3%. For a singleplayer RPG. Three percent of the costs of development, for one of the most successful video game kickstarter campaigns ever — STILL, years later.

    The issue was always people who thought you could make an MMO for a million dollars and willingly throwing their money into a moneypit.

    Yes, as it turns out, publishers are actually important. Because you don't get a game at all without them.
    Do you know what Warhorse used that money they raised for Kingdom Come deliverance to do?
    Convince a publisher that people were interested in their games so they could secure real funding, not pocket change.

    So while the Kickstarter raised only 3% of that needed, those funds were instrumental in securing a publisher which allowed to game to eventually be. You have disproven your claim it was never alive with your own example to the contrary.
  • RyukanRyukan Member UncommonPosts: 853
    After backing the Kickstarter of The Repopulation....never again.
    OG_Solareus
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,011
    Kyleran said:
    Somehow this keeps coming to mind every time I see this thread title..


    The Witch is dead long live the Witch!

    New versions of CF games will come back to haunt us.
    Kyleran
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,011
    Scot said:
    lotrlore said:
    Scot said:

    "It remains in Early Access", so it cannot be regarded as a success, but I applaud the passion that has kept it going.
    I'm not sure... think about something like Valheim.  Massive hit.  Still listed as Early Access.

    A large part of this issue is that we just allow people to use words however they want.  MMO, RPG, Early Access, Alpha, Beta...

    The terms have been so badly mutilated that they are almost meaningless any longer.  
    Fortnite was technically in Early Access for years while it funded Epic Games' entire empire. Early Access is just the new "released." And it's why you've started to see sites review early access titles like they are released titles ( we will be starting that this year ourselves).
    That will put the cat among the pigeon's, once the get a score based on their EA they are going to hold back and polish before going to EA. Best news this year gaming wise. 
    The challenge is that many reviewers tend to weigh “potential” in reviews which is always dangerous territory because I strays from what exists to what might or might not someday exist. 
    A tricky one but if a separate value was given for "potential" that might get round it, that means giving a game two scores mind you.
  • ShinyFlygonShinyFlygon Member UncommonPosts: 559
    To me, it's not really about Kickstarter. It's more about indie developers needing to learn to stay in their lane. An indie studio with limited resources simply has no business taking on a project that, by definition, requires a triple-A budget.

    Even if one or two outliers haven't totally crashed and burned, it is still a much wiser choice to start smaller and build your company on more stable ground.
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