Why defend this ?....17+ core problems

delete5230 · February 2023

Everyone is scratching their heads why no mmorpgs, here's why ?

Free to Play

Cash shops

Pay to win

Story driven instead of player driven

Carrot on a stick questing

Easy combat

No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK

No need for crafting because of "easy combat"

Don't need others because of "easy combat"

No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"

Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"

30 days of content, no replay, like single player

Complex graphics, harder to make

Complex graphics , expensive

Complex graphics , slow development

Complex graphics, small game

ZONING, instead of seamless

In 15 years I've asked the same question never an answer:

Did you ask for all of this or did companies and developers act on their own ??

Do you need this??

Do you demand all of this ?

Why are you defending this!!... AND PUTTING THE BLAME ON THE PLAYERS !!!

delete5230 · February 2023

17.....17.....Shit hole problems, do you like them ?
Who decided on this ????

Scot · February 2023

We didn't ask for this, but we ate it up all the same, I said before it takes two to tango, we should have got up and left the kitchen but we didn't. Now it is too late to do that, the fast food majority are the player base developers are catering for.

Side points: The two I don't agree with are zoning and story driven, you can have a great MMO with those two.

delete5230 · February 2023

Scot said:

We didn't ask for this, but we ate it up all the same, I said before it takes two to tango, we should have got up and left the kitchen but we didn't. Now it is too late to do that, the fast food majority are the player base developers are catering for.

Side points: The two I don't agree with are zoning and story driven, you can have a great MMO with those two.

Well, one of my sayings "people will eat garbage"

If advertised well, the worst restraint will be packed every Saturday afternoon.

Puke on a plate, but with a FREE salad bar

Right ! Right !

The_Korrigan · February 2023

I found problem 18 :

delete5230 · February 2023

The_Korrigan said:

I found problem 18 :

Still trying to pick a fight ?

nothing better to do I guess.

Slapshot1188 · February 2023

I feel compelled to point out that the ones below all only share one "Core Problem" which is easy combat (according to you) and the others you listed are just symptoms of that core problem.

Easy combat

No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK

No need for crafting because of "easy combat"

Don't need others because of "easy combat"

No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"

Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"

So on the plus side we just cut your list down from 17 to 12!

You are welcome!

PS: Also looks like these 4 also share the same "Core Problem" which is (according to you post) Complex Graphics..

Complex graphics, harder to make

Complex graphics , expensive

Complex graphics , slow development

Complex graphics, small game

So we knocked another 3 down and got your initial list of 17 Core Problems down to a more manageable 9!

delete5230 · February 2023

Slapshot1188 said:

I feel compelled to point out that the ones below all only share one "Core Problem" which is easy combat (according to you) and the others you listed are just symptoms of that core problem.

Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK
No need for crafting because of "easy combat"
Don't need others because of "easy combat"
No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"
Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"

So on the plus side we just cut your list down from 17 to 12!
You are welcome!
PS: Also looks like these 4 also share the same "Core Problem" which is (according to you post) Complex Graphics..
Complex graphics, harder to make
Complex graphics , expensive
Complex graphics , slow development
Complex graphics, small game

So we knocked another 3 down and got your initial list of 17 Core Problems down to a more manageable 9!

I'll agree with this,
Two of them have sub problems, so yes their are 9.

however their are more, this is just off the top of my head, that are fact problems..... Then we have everyone's individual problems.

Amaranthar · February 2023

delete5230 said:

Scot said:

We didn't ask for this, but we ate it up all the same, I said before it takes two to tango, we should have got up and left the kitchen but we didn't. Now it is too late to do that, the fast food majority are the player base developers are catering for.

Side points: The two I don't agree with are zoning and story driven, you can have a great MMO with those two.

Well, one of my sayings "people will eat garbage"

If advertised well, the worst restraint will be packed every Saturday afternoon.

Puke on a plate, but with a FREE salad bar

Right ! Right !

People will gladly eat garbage if that's all they can get.

It's almost funny, gamers really want MMORPGs. But game developers really want to give them garbage.
It's like a tug-of-war, in reverse. A push-of-war. With a rope. lol

Andemnon · February 2023

delete5230 said:

The_Korrigan said:

I found problem 18 :

Still trying to pick a fight ?

nothing better to do I guess.

Oh come on, it was really funny, some people cannot help but make jokes, which i for one am glad they do, even if i am the butt of the joke sometimes, so dust off that sense of humour and have a laugh, your day will be brighter!

Kyleran · February 2023

The_Korrigan said:

I found problem 18 :

Well she definitely caught my attention....

What were we talking about again?

delete5230 · February 2023

Kyleran said:

The_Korrigan said:

I found problem 18 :

Well she definitely caught my attention....

What were we talking about again?

Well, I took offence because she's my girlfriend

Kyleran · February 2023

delete5230 said:

Slapshot1188 said:

I feel compelled to point out that the ones below all only share one "Core Problem" which is easy combat (according to you) and the others you listed are just symptoms of that core problem.

Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK
No need for crafting because of "easy combat"
Don't need others because of "easy combat"
No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"
Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"

So on the plus side we just cut your list down from 17 to 12!
You are welcome!
PS: Also looks like these 4 also share the same "Core Problem" which is (according to you post) Complex Graphics..
Complex graphics, harder to make
Complex graphics , expensive
Complex graphics , slow development
Complex graphics, small game

So we knocked another 3 down and got your initial list of 17 Core Problems down to a more manageable 9!

I'll agree with this,
Two of them have sub problems, so yes their are 9.

however their are more, this is just off the top of my head, that are fact problems..... Then we have everyone's individual problems.

Hold the phone, the first 3 are related to bad monetization model, so now we are down to 7 core problem ls, right?

delete5230 · February 2023

Kyleran said:

delete5230 said:

Slapshot1188 said:

I feel compelled to point out that the ones below all only share one "Core Problem" which is easy combat (according to you) and the others you listed are just symptoms of that core problem.

Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK
No need for crafting because of "easy combat"
Don't need others because of "easy combat"
No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"
Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"

So on the plus side we just cut your list down from 17 to 12!
You are welcome!
PS: Also looks like these 4 also share the same "Core Problem" which is (according to you post) Complex Graphics..
Complex graphics, harder to make
Complex graphics , expensive
Complex graphics , slow development
Complex graphics, small game

So we knocked another 3 down and got your initial list of 17 Core Problems down to a more manageable 9!

I'll agree with this,
Two of them have sub problems, so yes their are 9.

however their are more, this is just off the top of my head, that are fact problems..... Then we have everyone's individual problems.

Hold the phone, the first 3 are related to bad monetization model, so now we are down to 7 core problem ls, right?

Well however you break it down or sub categorize them their are 17+ reasons mmorpgs suck and all because of the makers.

Their responsible for the huge Suck problem.

Who voted for the changes ??..... Better yet where did you go to vote, because I missed out.

Scot · February 2023

sophia123456 said:

Who want to play gta5 with me?

I almost feel some nostalgia for this old style adbot that makes no attempt to appear like a person.

Champie · February 2023

delete5230 said:
Who voted for the changes ??..... Better yet where did you go to vote, because I missed out.

Voting is such a 20th century notion. Succumbing to threats of social and economic violence is the Modality of our time. Anyone with real talent would never get involved in game development.

Kyleran · February 2023

Champie said:

delete5230 said:
Who voted for the changes ??..... Better yet where did you go to vote, because I missed out.

Voting is such a 20th century notion. Succumbing to threats of social and economic violence is the Modality of our time. Anyone with real talent would never get involved in game development.

In a consumer culture people vote with their wallets which of course is heavily influenced by advertising.

Problem is, the only votes which actually count are when someone actually spends money, hence pay for advantage became popular because developers found out some decently sized group of players will pay money regularly for such, so game design shifted to the paying player base

Darkhawke · February 2023

The_Korrigan said:

I found problem 18 :

This contributes nothing to the discussion, It's actually just an example of trolling and insulting other members for no reason .Mods should adress this accordingly to there rules.

Kyleran · February 2023

Aww, there you go, getting my attention again, a double dose no less, thanks

The two have history, let's just leave it at that.

Did you perhaps have something to share with the class?

Darkhawke · February 2023

Kyleran said:

Champie said:

delete5230 said:
Who voted for the changes ??..... Better yet where did you go to vote, because I missed out.

Voting is such a 20th century notion. Succumbing to threats of social and economic violence is the Modality of our time. Anyone with real talent would never get involved in game development.

In a consumer culture people vote with their wallets which of course is heavily influenced by advertising.

Problem is, the only votes which actually count are when someone actually spends money, hence pay for advantage became popular because developers found out some decently sized group of players will pay money regularly for such, so game design shifted to the paying player base

It was a very slippery slope in 08 - 10 when people starting yelling that they would pay to test games.. Devs and Pubs heard this loud and clear and started offering up paid betas , instead of selecting testers.. They soon found that gamers woukd pay for most anything that gave access or advantage.. And here we are.The op has a point we created much of this , only way to stop it is stop paying for or using the services that bastardidize,homogenized the genre.

Brainy · February 2023

delete5230 said:

Everyone is scratching their heads why no mmorpgs, here's why ?

Free to Play

Cash shops

Pay to win

Story driven instead of player driven

Carrot on a stick questing

Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK

No need for crafting because of "easy combat"

Don't need others because of "easy combat"

No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"

Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"

30 days of content, no replay, like single player

Complex graphics, harder to make

Complex graphics , expensive

Complex graphics , slow development

Complex graphics, small game

ZONING, instead of seamless

In 15 years I've asked the same question never an answer:

Did you ask for all of this or did companies and developers act on their own ??

Do you need this??

Do you demand all of this ?

Why are you defending this!!... AND PUTTING THE BLAME ON THE PLAYERS !!!

I agree with you on this list other than Zoning.

EZ combat and Complex graphics seems to be at the root of most of the problems.

As graphics have become more complex, gameplay has decreased. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or part of the wider problem. I do think devs are out of touch with the masses.

Many of you are saying we created this, but in the last decade many of these games have failed or have very few subscribers compared to before. So wallet voting is not working well. There is always going to be someone that will buy anything. The large majority has exited and all this caused was AAA devs to exit also.

I honestly dont know the answer, other than the AAA studios getting good management that has a clue about the various different playerbases.

Kyleran · February 2023

Brainy said:

delete5230 said:

Everyone is scratching their heads why no mmorpgs, here's why ?

Free to Play

Cash shops

Pay to win

Story driven instead of player driven

Carrot on a stick questing

Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK

No need for crafting because of "easy combat"

Don't need others because of "easy combat"

No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"

Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"

30 days of content, no replay, like single player

Complex graphics, harder to make

Complex graphics , expensive

Complex graphics , slow development

Complex graphics, small game

ZONING, instead of seamless

In 15 years I've asked the same question never an answer:

Did you ask for all of this or did companies and developers act on their own ??

Do you need this??

Do you demand all of this ?

Why are you defending this!!... AND PUTTING THE BLAME ON THE PLAYERS !!!

I agree with you on this list other than Zoning.

EZ combat and Complex graphics seems to be at the root of most of the problems.

As graphics have become more complex, gameplay has decreased. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or part of the wider problem. I do think devs are out of touch with the masses.

Many of you are saying we created this, but in the last decade many of these games have failed or have very few subscribers compared to before. So wallet voting is not working well. There is always going to be someone that will buy anything. The large majority has exited and all this caused was AAA devs to exit also.

I honestly dont know the answer, other than the AAA studios getting good management that has a clue about the various different playerbases.

Management has a very clear picture about what people will pay for, hence gaming overall makes money hand over fist year over year, just not so much in the newer MMORPG space.

Zenimax, SQENIX, Blizzard, all have chosen to keep milking their existing MMORPGs and invest their money elsewhere.

Most developers won't even bother with the genre, they just don't see a proven model of big return so they want to build the next Pokemon Go or the like.

delete5230 · February 2023

Kyleran said:

Brainy said:

delete5230 said:

Everyone is scratching their heads why no mmorpgs, here's why ?

Free to Play

Cash shops

Pay to win

Story driven instead of player driven

Carrot on a stick questing

Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK

No need for crafting because of "easy combat"

Don't need others because of "easy combat"

No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"

Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"

30 days of content, no replay, like single player

Complex graphics, harder to make

Complex graphics , expensive

Complex graphics , slow development

Complex graphics, small game

ZONING, instead of seamless

In 15 years I've asked the same question never an answer:

Did you ask for all of this or did companies and developers act on their own ??

Do you need this??

Do you demand all of this ?

Why are you defending this!!... AND PUTTING THE BLAME ON THE PLAYERS !!!

I agree with you on this list other than Zoning.

EZ combat and Complex graphics seems to be at the root of most of the problems.

As graphics have become more complex, gameplay has decreased. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or part of the wider problem. I do think devs are out of touch with the masses.

Many of you are saying we created this, but in the last decade many of these games have failed or have very few subscribers compared to before. So wallet voting is not working well. There is always going to be someone that will buy anything. The large majority has exited and all this caused was AAA devs to exit also.

I honestly dont know the answer, other than the AAA studios getting good management that has a clue about the various different playerbases.

Management has a very clear picture about what people will pay for, hence gaming overall makes money hand over fist year over year, just not so much in the newer MMORPG space.

Zenimax, SQENIX, Blizzard, all have chosen to keep milking their existing MMORPGs and invest their money elsewhere.

Most developers won't even bother with the genre, they just don't see a proven model of big return so they want to build the next Pokemon Go or the like.

When I worked for the top CD/ DVD company, the head accountant/head manager would say, make the money today, forget about tomorrow, we may not be in this job later to care.

Brainy · February 2023

Kyleran said:
Management has a very clear picture about what people will pay for, hence gaming overall makes money hand over fist year over year, just not so much in the newer MMORPG space.

Zenimax, SQENIX, Blizzard, all have chosen to keep milking their existing MMORPGs and invest their money elsewhere.

Most developers won't even bother with the genre, they just don't see a proven model of big return so they want to build the next Pokemon Go or the like.

You painting management as being all knowing about their industry is misplaced. Just look in the movie industry how many flops there have been. No, MMORPG industry insiders are doing educated guesses and lately they have been wrong most of the time this last decade.

If their games were truly making money hand over fist they would be releasing more trying to capture the entire market share.

People can both chew gum and walk at the same time. So just because a game in 1 place is profitable doesnt mean they cant make profit somewhere else at the same time. If profit was assured they would be spending money to get it.

The problem is they have a bad failure rate because they are clueless so its not easy money for them, so they stay away. When a true blockbuster game releases and paves the way of success, they will all follow suit.

Kyleran · February 2023

delete5230 said:

Kyleran said:

Brainy said:

delete5230 said:

Everyone is scratching their heads why no mmorpgs, here's why ?

Free to Play

Cash shops

Pay to win

Story driven instead of player driven

Carrot on a stick questing

Easy combat
No need for "abilities" for easy combat, they ALL WORK

No need for crafting because of "easy combat"

Don't need others because of "easy combat"

No need for armor and weapon upgrades because of "easy combat"

Boring no challenge because of "easy combat"

30 days of content, no replay, like single player

Complex graphics, harder to make

Complex graphics , expensive

Complex graphics , slow development

Complex graphics, small game

ZONING, instead of seamless

In 15 years I've asked the same question never an answer:

Did you ask for all of this or did companies and developers act on their own ??

Do you need this??

Do you demand all of this ?

Why are you defending this!!... AND PUTTING THE BLAME ON THE PLAYERS !!!

I agree with you on this list other than Zoning.

EZ combat and Complex graphics seems to be at the root of most of the problems.

As graphics have become more complex, gameplay has decreased. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or part of the wider problem. I do think devs are out of touch with the masses.

Many of you are saying we created this, but in the last decade many of these games have failed or have very few subscribers compared to before. So wallet voting is not working well. There is always going to be someone that will buy anything. The large majority has exited and all this caused was AAA devs to exit also.

I honestly dont know the answer, other than the AAA studios getting good management that has a clue about the various different playerbases.

Management has a very clear picture about what people will pay for, hence gaming overall makes money hand over fist year over year, just not so much in the newer MMORPG space.

Zenimax, SQENIX, Blizzard, all have chosen to keep milking their existing MMORPGs and invest their money elsewhere.

Most developers won't even bother with the genre, they just don't see a proven model of big return so they want to build the next Pokemon Go or the like.

When I worked for the top CD/ DVD company, the head accountant/head manager would say, make the money today, forget about tomorrow, we may not be in this job later to care.

Pretty smart person, bet your old employer isn't doing to well these days unless they invested in other directions besides CD'S & DVD's.

Perhaps MMORPGS are sort of obsolete in the same way with consumers moving on to newer game focuses such as MOBA's, BR's, multiplayer survival games and the like.

delete5230 · February 2023

Brainy said:

Kyleran said:
Management has a very clear picture about what people will pay for, hence gaming overall makes money hand over fist year over year, just not so much in the newer MMORPG space.

Zenimax, SQENIX, Blizzard, all have chosen to keep milking their existing MMORPGs and invest their money elsewhere.

Most developers won't even bother with the genre, they just don't see a proven model of big return so they want to build the next Pokemon Go or the like.

You painting management as being all knowing about their industry is misplaced. Just look in the movie industry how many flops there have been. No, MMORPG industry insiders are doing educated guesses and lately they have been wrong most of the time this last decade.

If their games were truly making money hand over fist they would be releasing more trying to capture the entire market share.

People can both chew gum and walk at the same time. So just because a game in 1 place is profitable doesnt mean they cant make profit somewhere else at the same time. If profit was assured they would be spending money to get it.

The problem is they have a bad failure rate because they are clueless so its not easy money for them, so they stay away. When a true blockbuster game releases and paves the way of success, they will all follow suit.

Absolutely....... Yes !

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Why defend this ?....17+ core problems

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Why defend this ?....17+ core problems

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV