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Ashes of Creation Shows Off Weather Effects in Charming Alpha Two Preview

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,216
    edited May 2022
    Kyleran said:
    Babuinix said:
    It's the DEVELOPER that sets the expectations, the timelines, the budgets...
    With the information they have AT the time. Why is that so hard to grasp that things change along the way?

    Game Development is not an exact science that you can plan to the wire. Just because you like to pretend that anything a Dev says should be considered a promised does not makes it so. :D
    At my employer they terminate developers / leads who aren't able to deliver on their promises, especially if the problem regularly reoccurs.

    Game development isn't rocket science, no matter how much you try to paint it so.


    If I ever missed my project dates or budgets like that I would have been fired many years ago.  yes, in the age of COVID I go back for updated approvals as costs and/or lead times changed since the initial approval but we are talking about 10.. MAYBE 15% changes here.  Not 500%.  I also go back for that WAAAAY in advance of the ETA or cost date.  As soon as I see it on the horizon. 

    Kyleran

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Babuinix said:
    all smug pretending to know what they're talking about while spewing complete nonsense lol


    But you do know and speak truth?
    [Deleted User]
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  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    Kyleran said:
    At my employer they terminate developers / leads who aren't able to deliver on their promises, especially if the problem regularly reoccurs.
    Game development isn't rocket science, no matter how much you try to paint it so.
    Good for them, I'm sure they've produced amazing video-games with that method lol

    Besides the amount of Games that year in year out get delayed releases, there's multiple reports of game developers explaining why the unpredictability of game development and the constant changes that occur along the way.


    Yet, the armchair dev's, who clearly never developed a game in their life double down on pretending to know better than industry vets... Delusional.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,216
    Babuinix said:
    Kyleran said:
    At my employer they terminate developers / leads who aren't able to deliver on their promises, especially if the problem regularly reoccurs.
    Game development isn't rocket science, no matter how much you try to paint it so.
    Good for them, I'm sure they've produced amazing video-games with that method lol

    Besides the amount of Games that year in year out get delayed releases, there's multiple reports of game developers explaining why the unpredictability of game development and the constant changes that occur along the way.


    Yet, the armchair dev's, who clearly never developed a game in their life double down on pretending to know better than industry vets... Delusional.
    You mean the armchair devs that can learn from what has happened in the past, understand that the "unpredictability of game development" actually means that the developer's timeline is unrealistic?

    Why can the armchair developers learn this yet the actual developers cannot?  Its not like the armchair devs set these dates and budgets.   The developers did.  The armchair devs just called them out and said they were being unrealistic and would need far more time and money.   And lo and behold.. many years and million later... who was right?

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

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  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    You mean the armchair devs that can learn from what has happened in the past, understand that the "unpredictability of game development" actually means that the developer's timeline is unrealistic?

    Why can the armchair developers learn this yet the actual developers cannot?  Its not like the armchair devs set these dates and budgets.   The developers did.  The armchair devs just called them out and said they were being unrealistic and would need far more time and money.   And lo and behold.. many years and million later... who was right?
    Is that why you keep crying about a developer who's notorious for taking it's time to make it's games to be taking it's time to make it's game? :D

    Was that what you "learned from what happened in the past?" hero move lol?

    Let's be real here, no one is calling dev's out at nothing around here.
    It's text-book jaded gamer aka angry gamer gibberish.
    No dev takes that seriously, they just sigh and facepalm lol

    When dev's give predictions about big projects and even more so in kickstarted mmo's They Know perfectly well that the dates will most likely slip. They know perfectly well they will most likely need more funding along the line. They know there's a chance that the game might never launch. They Know that they can't predict everything.

    It's a leap of faith. But to get the ball rolling they have to start somewhere.

    Take RiOT MMORPG, we know it's being developed because they needed to hire people, we know they have the funding and the experienced developers in their studios with plenty of MMO development experience, yet even their Project Lead (Ghostcrawler ex-WoW, LoL, AoE) doesn't know if the game will release.


    Why is that?
    Kyleran said:
    Game development isn't rocket science, no matter how much you try to paint it so.
    You still haven't explained how a developer working on the grass, wind, mobs etc would delay the game for 1 or 2 years though lol
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,216
    You complained that “armchair developers “  should not be listened to.  Your wall of text ignores the fact that the “armchair developers” were correct when they said the timeline and budget were not reasonable.  

    It’s actually pretty amazing because everyone knows you are just here to have some kind of proxy war justification for a different game. How is this developer “notorious for taking its time to make its games” when this is their first product, the lead developer has zero game development experience, and he now also doubles as the lead designer. Please explain how your comment in any way applies to this game.  You can’t… because you are just trying to justify your other game in this game’s thread.

    YashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

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  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    edited June 2022
    No Shit Sherlock...

    Every year games (big and small, from big publishers or indie) get delayed and over budget. 

    Why do you think a new studio crowdfunding a mmorpg should've known the timeline and budget for their game from the get go when established studios with veteran developers can't?

    Shouldn't be about time that armchair dev's learn to apreciate simple game development updates without feeling the need to shit on developers work because they're jaded lol

    Like yeah making a good mmorpg is very hard, crowdfunding one even harder.

    Crying about "promises" made years ago addnauseum and using that as an excuse for the toxic behaviour isin't. 

    Get over it and move on to something constructive for a change.
    Post edited by Babuinix on
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,216
    edited June 2022
    The only “toxic behavior “ here is yours.  Let’s stick to Ashes of Creation because you are literally arguing two opposite things in the same thread since you are trying to make it about your other game.   You in one message claim that devs know more and we should believe them over "armchair developers"  Then you argue that these guys could not have possibly known how to make a timeline and budget since they were new.

    It's utterly silly.

    At the end of the day Stephen is the one who 100% owns responsibility for setting expectations he could not meet.  The fault is 100% on his end.  Whether it was intentionally misleading people or simple incompetence... really doesn't matter IMHO.  He set the expectations and he failed to meet them.

    What is funny, is that from what I know of the guy... I think if you asked him that he would agree and take responsibility and not try to push it off on "armchair devs".   That's the most humorous part here.  In your eagerness to defend a different game, you are making an argument for THIS game that even the main developer would not make.
    YashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

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  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    edited June 2022
    I clearly asked a question about why would the poster claiming that having a tech artist working on grass, wind, mobs, seasons would delay the game for 1 to 2 years.

    And I asked you why would you think developers doing a kickstart to develop a mmorpg should know exactly the timeline and budget needed when it's shown that not even established studios and experienced developers can?

    A veteran developer with decades of experience has no problem in admiting that he's not able to predict how long and if things will pan out and here you are acting all smug like you'd know better lol

    Like I said, that's Delusional.

    Just for once, get off the jaded horse, take a step back and just apreciate the effort and care developers take to not only build new worlds and ideas but to share their passion with us gamers.

    Sure, it's also a marketing move as they need to keep showing work to maintain their community engaged, but even as a non player or backer of the game one can apreciate the work being done there without being a cynic or worse, making assumptions of dev incompetence while pretending to know better.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,216
    Babuinix said:


    And I asked you why would you think developers doing a kickstart to develop a mmorpg should know exactly the timeline and budget needed when it's shown that not even established studios and experienced developers can't?


    So what you are saying is that the "armchair developers' actually knew more in this case...

    Glad we agree.


    Babuinix

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    edited June 2022
    So what you are saying is that the "armchair developers' actually knew more in this case...

    Glad we agree.
    Again, If you knew more why did you Backed the game back then and more importantly, Why are you still crying about it Now?

    Shouldn't you be expecting things you knew about already instead of getting jadded? :D
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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,216
    edited June 2022
    Babuinix said:
    So what you are saying is that the "armchair developers' actually knew more in this case...

    Glad we agree.
    Again, If you knew more why did you Backed the game back then 
    Did I?  Sounds like you are just making stuff up again...  like usual.


    Anyway.. not going to dilute this thread anymore with the back and forth.  It's all clear above and folks can see for themselves.  You haven't fooled a single person.
    YashaX

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 2,895
    Sheesh, so we're back to this. name calling, etc.

    Sigh.
    Slapshot1188Champie

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    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    edited June 2022
    You clearly did fool a single person, yourself :D

    But yeah keep lashing out on dev's to ease the pain lol
    YashaX
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  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    Still would realy like to understand the line of thought that went into thinking a Enviromental artist taking care and effort to bring is best work to a mmorpg could delay it's development for 1 - 2 years lol

    It's a real nice feature to have a constant change of fauna and flora going along the seasons though.
    YashaX
  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 2,895
    The best instance of this I've seen is in Ryzom. There are four seasons, and the landscape looks different for each season. Snow in the winter, flowers in spring, fall colors on the trees, etc.

    And the NPC's act differently too. Herds of herbivores migrate for the seasons, and the predators follow them. That roaming boss might be here in the spring, but not in the winter.

    Plus, there is a day/night cycle, and weather. So you might have a particular resource that is only available at night, in the rain, in winter for example.

    Hard to believe that game came out almost 20 years ago.
    BabuinixMendelChampie

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • TheDalaiBombaTheDalaiBomba Member EpicPosts: 1,493
    Ponzini said:
    Kyleran said:
    KroxMalon said:

    user298 said:

    That looks pretty but this is not essential to the gameplay.



    But hey, who needs more essential core gameplay features like fully implemented character abilities and combat systems when you have pretty weather effects which can be used to promote and sell more of pretty cosmetic items through extremely abusive "limited time only, HURRY UP AND BUY BEFORE JUNE 8th!!!!" FOMO system, right?



    Well they need to keep the funding some how. You know games cost money to make? And software engineers are not cheap.

    And they do have gameplay mechanics, they have shown these off in other videos.

    This is the weather system, not the ability system.

    P.s, I'm not even a die-fan/fanboi, don't have not bought it.
    There is no evidence the ability or game systems have actually been tied to the weather system in any fashion.

    Don't be fooled by the man behind the curtain, wait until he delivers the actual magic before giving accolades.

    My guess is much of what was demonstrated is core functionality of the Unreal 5 engine and less about their own efforts.

    I believe the merger of previous gameplay code and weather have a long way to go, same as the final release date, 2025 is the optimistic view I think.


    You speak of evidence then go on to say "My guess is.." and "I believe.." followed by baseless assumptions. You guys think you are smart be being so pessimistic because the track record of MMO development is not good so chances are higher you will be correct if this game fails. With that attitude there is no reason to even be here. You cant just sit around a reminisce about the good old days of MMOs forever. 

    Within a few months they have shown a very good character creator and seasons/environmental update. This is very good progress. If this is the quality level they are going for the reveal of their combat 2.0 could be amazing.
    Crowdfunding has a poor track record for this genre specifically, as you say.

    Projects limping (development-wise) along years past expected delivery dates are not good bets.  They just aren't.

    Abrasive as we can be, you admit we're the ones following the track record.  That's really the best you can do as a smart consumer in this situation.
    Slapshot1188MendelYashaX
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    olepi said:
    The best instance of this I've seen is in Ryzom. There are four seasons, and the landscape looks different for each season. Snow in the winter, flowers in spring, fall colors on the trees, etc.

    And the NPC's act differently too. Herds of herbivores migrate for the seasons, and the predators follow them. That roaming boss might be here in the spring, but not in the winter.

    Plus, there is a day/night cycle, and weather. So you might have a particular resource that is only available at night, in the rain, in winter for example.

    Hard to believe that game came out almost 20 years ago.

    That Ryzom came out 20 years ago with all these unique features demonstrates that this really isn't difficult.  It just takes some planning, patience and a willingness to attempt things that haven't been done before.  Many modern development companies seem to lack or have forgotten these principles.



    Babuinix

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,329
    edited June 2022
    Mendel said:

    That Ryzom came out 20 years ago with all these unique features demonstrates that this really isn't difficult.  It just takes some planning, patience and a willingness to attempt things that haven't been done before.  Many modern development companies seem to lack or have forgotten these principles.
    Just because a game has X feature doesn't means it will be easy to implement in other game though.

    Game dev It's not playing Lego where you can add/move blocks around from game to game seamlessly.
    Slapshot1188YashaX
  • elc8745elc8745 Member UncommonPosts: 51
    Interesting discussion. Like watching dogs bark at a vacuum cleaner. Well done everyone lol
    ultimateduck
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  • emperorhades1emperorhades1 Member UncommonPosts: 353
    Coming summer 2050 to a pc near you.
    ScotYashaXultimateduck
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