Well TBH 50k at $15. It aint freeloaders, and it aint height of mmo numbers, but it in my eyes is damn fine revenue. I still think chasing that WoW dragon is a huge detriment to games, and investors. Aside from ANY of that my main issues with ANY game is UI. You can have a shitty game and still gain traction with reasonable ui. Extrapolate...
Extremely troubled development with incompetent and temperamental leads.
Definitely showed in the final game as well. Pretty much every aspect of the entire game was buggy as hell.
What made the attunement quests that the article talked about so difficult was that they were very buggy and most times could not be completed.
The wildstar devs seemed exorbitantly cocky. From the outside, they seemed to have a core philosophy of doubling down on the grindy attunement features of say classic wow.
While the games art style was fun it conflicted with the more serious design of the games systems. I saw many people writing it off for the art style alone.
Extremely troubled development with incompetent and temperamental leads.
Definitely showed in the final game as well. Pretty much every aspect of the entire game was buggy as hell.
What made the attunement quests that the article talked about so difficult was that they were very buggy and most times could not be completed.
The wildstar devs seemed exorbitantly cocky. From the outside, they seemed to have a core philosophy of doubling down on the grindy attunement features of say classic wow.
While the games art style was fun it conflicted with the more serious design of the games systems. I saw many people writing it off for the art style alone.
I have always wondered about the comedy element, how well did that play? I don't think comedy works that well in MMOs but that may be more of a personnel preference.
Pantheon is a great example of a MMORPG trying to do it the right way...and it will fail miserably simply because the players don't want to play that way anymore......The days of grouping up and fighting as a team in a MMO are long gone....Sure maybe at end game where you can get uber gear they will do it, but at level 10? Probably not....The reason why these games fail is because they went away from what made the games great originally: the community.....EQ was far from a perfect game, but I made more friends there than all other MMOs I played combined (and thats alot)......
MMOs today are set to please the solo player....Companies want to get as much income as possible so they go to please the casuals and the soloers.....That is where the money is....I really hope Pantheon makes it to launch someday because I am curious hwo it will do.....THe problem is that games get labels and a game like that will not appeal to younger players because it is "old school" and they will not play it.
I am not so sure about people not enjoying grouping at low levels because I am playing Homecoming's City of Heroes and people group there like mad even on the sparsely populated Villain side.
I think what people don't like is regimented grouping. What I mean by that is where you need to have certain classes and then only can you go do content. City is very flexible. It was like that from the very beginning even when parochial people insisted in Tanks and Defenders who can heal. Content was done with debuffers, buffers and control without any heals. You did not need tanks either so grouping was less a chore about waiting for some particular class before you can make a go of it.
I agree with the OP, about respecting a Players Time.
This means, that the time a player puts into the game, should give them progress of some kind, where if I play for an hour, I should feel like I made progress, there is nothing more defeating then playing an MMO for an hour, and getting stonewalled, or in some cases, losing progress.
So. yes, respect a players time.
Respect a Players Money.
If you run a sub, or a item shop, or whatever, whatever your payment plan to keep your game afloat is, you need to respect the money that players have put into your game.
I think this one is one of the larger offenders was things like loot boxes, and Real Money RNG stuff the game is selling, for me, that is total disrespect for the money that a gamer is putting into your game.
Companies need to learn to respect the money that a player is putting into their game, and show thanks for that, and in failing to do so, will hurt them in the long run.
Dividing the Community.
This us huge, and the best MMO's are those that allow for players to invite their friends to play, and not put up walls between them playing together.
Some games have done this well, but, ideally, if I get my friend to play, I would like to be able to play with them, often this lead to making a character to play with them, or some such convoluted means, but ideally, it's better to just be able to play together.
Know you Target Audience.
Talking with the Community is great, having that PR team, or whatever, is helpful, but first and foremost, you need to know who your audience is.
And then you focus on making the best game you can for that demographic. Trying to be something for everyone, is often not a good plan, and will lead to a lot of problems and issues.
If the plan is to try and make something for everyone, keep in mind, you don't need to listen to the PvE players about what will make for good PvP.
Again, know your market, and target the hell out of them.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Extremely troubled development with incompetent and temperamental leads.
Definitely showed in the final game as well. Pretty much every aspect of the entire game was buggy as hell.
What made the attunement quests that the article talked about so difficult was that they were very buggy and most times could not be completed.
The wildstar devs seemed exorbitantly cocky. From the outside, they seemed to have a core philosophy of doubling down on the grindy attunement features of say classic wow.
While the games art style was fun it conflicted with the more serious design of the games systems. I saw many people writing it off for the art style alone.
I have always wondered about the comedy element, how well did that play? I don't think comedy works that well in MMOs but that may be more of a personnel preference.
Depends on your sense of humor. Most of it was dark. For example, you find some of your comrades stranded in a snowbank. One of them is wounded and all are starving. Your mission is to go out and get food/medicine for them. When you get back, the wounded person is missing, there are bones in the area, and everyone else is well-fed. They don't say what happened which is the joke.
Another example is when you leveled, they had this big "You Leveled" message heavy-metal font with the narrator saying something like "Holy **** someone just leveled." I'm not sure if that was supposed to be humor, but I found the over-the-top nature of the message funny.
I don't know if it would have worked well in the long-term. It might have gotten old quickly. Maybe if the game was released when 90s nostalgia became/becomes a thing it would have done better.
Yeah, it was a game for the 90s attitude: dark, edgy, XTREEEME, some degree of self-awareness, and you couldn't tell if it was taking itself too seriously or being a parody of taking itself too seriously.
Pantheon is a great example of a MMORPG trying to do it the right way...and it will fail miserably simply because the players don't want to play that way anymore......The days of grouping up and fighting as a team in a MMO are long gone....Sure maybe at end game where you can get uber gear they will do it, but at level 10? Probably not....The reason why these games fail is because they went away from what made the games great originally: the community.....EQ was far from a perfect game, but I made more friends there than all other MMOs I played combined (and thats alot)......
MMOs today are set to please the solo player....Companies want to get as much income as possible so they go to please the casuals and the soloers.....That is where the money is....I really hope Pantheon makes it to launch someday because I am curious hwo it will do.....THe problem is that games get labels and a game like that will not appeal to younger players because it is "old school" and they will not play it.
I am not so sure about people not enjoying grouping at low levels because I am playing Homecoming's City of Heroes and people group there like mad even on the sparsely populated Villain side.
I think what people don't like is regimented grouping. What I mean by that is where you need to have certain classes and then only can you go do content. City is very flexible. It was like that from the very beginning even when parochial people insisted in Tanks and Defenders who can heal. Content was done with debuffers, buffers and control without any heals. You did not need tanks either so grouping was less a chore about waiting for some particular class before you can make a go of it.
This is absolutely true. And with the addition of options to adjust mission size and levels, you never *have* to have anyone in that game. Anything will work so long as you dial in the right level and number of enemies. One of the most fun groups I've been in was an all Blaster/Scrapper group. It was chaotic and, many times, uncertain. Most importantly: it was *hella fun.*
I like a good story and a good adventure. GW2 and ESO, I could take a very low level character into high level areas and complete a high level quest. ESO I took a level 10 into a level 45 area and could do the vampire quest, then return to the low level zones to level as a vamp. GW2 I could take a low level ranger into high level zones to snag high level pets. Yes I could get one shotted but it was a fun change of pace, plus I marked teleports and players would be nice enough to revive me.
IF the leveling was fun even with limited content I ended up leveling every class and still return to some mmo’s just to play favorite areas over the years. So they still get my business if I enjoyed them. Wild star didn’t hold my interest past the starter area.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Call it either the Brad McQuaid path, or the Funcom path....
McQuaid didnt do such a thing, though. His funding got cut. He had to publish an unfinished game.
Not how I heard the story, Brad missed his deadlines, aka his budget, and his publishers weren't willing to keep sinking more money in.
Yeah, reminds me of when Snipehunter complained that they had to shut down CoE because they couldn't raise more money. Ignoring the fact that the $8M they raised was 8 times what they asked for in the kickstarter and more than DOUBLE what they said they would need to full fund the game.
But sure, the problem was not enough money... not utter incompetence at developing that caused massive cost overruns.
At least Brad had something that resembled a full product... I will grant that. but unlike Kickstarters.. in the real world when you miss your deadlines over and over again, and your budget is blown past... there are repercussions.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Call it either the Brad McQuaid path, or the Funcom path....
McQuaid didnt do such a thing, though. His funding got cut. He had to publish an unfinished game.
Not how I heard the story, Brad missed his deadlines, aka his budget, and his publishers weren't willing to keep sinking more money in.
Yeah, reminds me of when Snipehunter complained that they had to shut down CoE because they couldn't raise more money. Ignoring the fact that the $8M they raised was 8 times what they asked for in the kickstarter and more than DOUBLE what they said they would need to full fund the game.
But sure, the problem was not enough money... not utter incompetence at developing that caused massive cost overruns.
At least Brad had something that resembled a full product... I will grant that. but unlike Kickstarters.. in the real world when you miss your deadlines over and over again, and your budget is blown past... there are repercussions.
Yes, where I work entire teams and even entire site locations get dismantled when projects begin to look like lost causes. Many resources are retained, but those leading such efforts sometimes don't fare so well.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
The wildstar devs seemed exorbitantly cocky. From the outside, they seemed to have a core philosophy of doubling down on the grindy attunement features of say classic wow.
While the games art style was fun it conflicted with the more serious design of the games systems. I saw many people writing it off for the art style alone.
I think what people don't like is regimented grouping. What I mean by that is where you need to have certain classes and then only can you go do content. City is very flexible. It was like that from the very beginning even when parochial people insisted in Tanks and Defenders who can heal. Content was done with debuffers, buffers and control without any heals. You did not need tanks either so grouping was less a chore about waiting for some particular class before you can make a go of it.
I agree with the OP, about respecting a Players Time.
This means, that the time a player puts into the game, should give them progress of some kind, where if I play for an hour, I should feel like I made progress, there is nothing more defeating then playing an MMO for an hour, and getting stonewalled, or in some cases, losing progress.
So. yes, respect a players time.
Respect a Players Money.
If you run a sub, or a item shop, or whatever, whatever your payment plan to keep your game afloat is, you need to respect the money that players have put into your game.
I think this one is one of the larger offenders was things like loot boxes, and Real Money RNG stuff the game is selling, for me, that is total disrespect for the money that a gamer is putting into your game.
Companies need to learn to respect the money that a player is putting into their game, and show thanks for that, and in failing to do so, will hurt them in the long run.
Dividing the Community.
This us huge, and the best MMO's are those that allow for players to invite their friends to play, and not put up walls between them playing together.
Some games have done this well, but, ideally, if I get my friend to play, I would like to be able to play with them, often this lead to making a character to play with them, or some such convoluted means, but ideally, it's better to just be able to play together.
Know you Target Audience.
Talking with the Community is great, having that PR team, or whatever, is helpful, but first and foremost, you need to know who your audience is.
And then you focus on making the best game you can for that demographic. Trying to be something for everyone, is often not a good plan, and will lead to a lot of problems and issues.
If the plan is to try and make something for everyone, keep in mind, you don't need to listen to the PvE players about what will make for good PvP.
Again, know your market, and target the hell out of them.
Another example is when you leveled, they had this big "You Leveled" message heavy-metal font with the narrator saying something like "Holy **** someone just leveled." I'm not sure if that was supposed to be humor, but I found the over-the-top nature of the message funny.
I don't know if it would have worked well in the long-term. It might have gotten old quickly. Maybe if the game was released when 90s nostalgia became/becomes a thing it would have done better.
Yeah, it was a game for the 90s attitude: dark, edgy, XTREEEME, some degree of self-awareness, and you couldn't tell if it was taking itself too seriously or being a parody of taking itself too seriously.
IF the leveling was fun even with limited content I ended up leveling every class and still return to some mmo’s just to play favorite areas over the years. So they still get my business if I enjoyed them. Wild star didn’t hold my interest past the starter area.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But sure, the problem was not enough money... not utter incompetence at developing that caused massive cost overruns.
At least Brad had something that resembled a full product... I will grant that. but unlike Kickstarters.. in the real world when you miss your deadlines over and over again, and your budget is blown past... there are repercussions.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon