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Expertise system changed to a more sensible system based on feedback

IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,910
Credit where it's due, They've opted for a better Expertise system and even admitted they were wrong. How often does that happen?


In early 2022, when we start reducing the effectiveness of gear to your Expertise level, we will exempt the following items:
  • Any item you craft
  • Any item you earn from a quest
  • Any item you purchase from the faction shop
When these changes are implemented, Gear Score scaling will only apply to items sold or traded after that patch. So any items obtained prior to this patch will not be impacted or reduced in any way. When we thought about it more, reducing power for existing players is just unacceptable and something we will not do. We initially thought it being only temporary and giving a new path with to gain back that power with Gypsum would be acceptable, but it is now clear we were wrong.

...

In addition, when we implement the Gear Score scaling, we will now only reduce the effectiveness to the middle of your Expertise and the item’s gear score. So if your Musket Expertise is 520 and you buy a 600 GS Musket off the market, your effective GS will be 560. This combined with the getting to use all perks, should create good value in the marketplace for future users.

...

Also based on the PTR feedback from playing with the Expertise and Gypsum system we are going to make a number of tuning and balance adjustments to the system. Please keep in mind these have not be tested so consider them directional examples of the changes we are planning for December:

  1. Reduce the cost of crafting a Gypsum Orb to 2.5 coin from 100, and Gypsum Cast to 5 coin from 475. We decided there was no need to add another coin expense for our level 60 players, but kept a minimal amount so end game territory owners can earn a little more tax income.
  2. Change Topaz Gypsum to daily instead of weekly, and reduce crafting ingredients to make it less difficult to craft
  3. Change Gypsum earn cooldown timers from 22hrs to 18hrs just to give a little more leeway to people’s play schedules. In the future we want to build a global cooldown system to make it easy to coordinate this and other daily activities like crafting and faction missions, but that is a lower priority than server merges and other critical fixes, so this will not happen in the short to medium term
  4. Adjust the way Expertise bumps work so there is a minimum, as well as a maximum. Currently there is no minimum, which can result in a few bad rolls at the start really demoralizing players. This will also decrease the average bumps needed to get from min to max Expertise. Our goal is to average around 35.
  5. Move Gypsum rewards from cache to event. A few activities such as Outpost Rush, Corrupted Breaches, Arenas, and Aptitude granted Gypsum in the cache in the PTR. This leads to hoarding and uncertainty if using a cache now is safe. This change should resolve both of those concerns.

Pretty awesome and very quick response.


https://forums.newworld.com/t/dev-blog-end-game-update/619609/5

"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

― Umberto Eco

“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
― CD PROJEKT RED

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Comments

  • PurplePepePurplePepe Member UncommonPosts: 104
    Great change! I'm still not gonna reinstall. Worst combat of any MMO.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,266
    edited December 2021
    I guess if their developers actually played MMORPGs they'd have a better ideas about how things should work, but good to see them listening to players with some  experience in the genre.


    Scot

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,910
    edited December 2021
    Kyleran said:
    I guess if their developers actually played MMORPGs they'd have a better ideas about how things should work
    Not like that would ever happen. I expect most developers do play the game but play it casually. Not like they're going to work on it all day and then go home and spend 6 more hours playing it. Some of the finer points and details when playing a game only come to light when you experience them yourself playing more than just casually.

    The ins and outs of this expertise system is a 60+ gearing thing. I wouldn't expect anyone under 60 or anyone 60+ and not currently involved in trying to improve their gear to care much either way,

    I mean... who works at a bakery and then spends all their leisure time baking? :)
    Kyleran
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,708
    Iselin said:
    Kyleran said:
    I guess if their developers actually played MMORPGs they'd have a better ideas about how things should work
    Not like that would ever happen. I expect most developers do play the game but play it casually. Not like they're going to work on it all day and then go home and spend 6 more hours playing it. Some of the finer points and details when playing a game only come to light when you experience them yourself playing more than just casually.

    The ins and outs of this expertise system is a 60+ gearing thing. I wouldn't expect anyone under 60 or anyone 60+ and not currently involved in trying to improve their gear to care much either way,

    I mean... who works at a bakery and then spends all their leisure time baking? :)
    But Kyle is definitely 60+. Ohhh, you mean levels….

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    IselinKyleran
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,910
    lahnmir said:
    Iselin said:
    Kyleran said:
    I guess if their developers actually played MMORPGs they'd have a better ideas about how things should work
    Not like that would ever happen. I expect most developers do play the game but play it casually. Not like they're going to work on it all day and then go home and spend 6 more hours playing it. Some of the finer points and details when playing a game only come to light when you experience them yourself playing more than just casually.

    The ins and outs of this expertise system is a 60+ gearing thing. I wouldn't expect anyone under 60 or anyone 60+ and not currently involved in trying to improve their gear to care much either way,

    I mean... who works at a bakery and then spends all their leisure time baking? :)
    But Kyle is definitely 60+. Ohhh, you mean levels….

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    I started the game at 71 and am 72 now :)
    lahnmirKyleranlaserit
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 2,949
    edited December 2021
    That's great, sounds very good to me now.

    So those long ass quests which require to kill elites and bosses for 580 weapons won't be obsolete.

    EDIT: nm, I should read better ;)

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,840
    This is great news all the bitching we did in the official forums helped I guess along with the drastic drop in playerbase......now to see if peeps will come back!
    IselinKyleranTokken

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,910
    That's great, sounds very good to me now.

    So those long ass quests which require to kill elites and bosses for 580 weapons won't be obsolete.

    My only question would be - are those changes retroactive ?
    AKA do they apply on items you already own ?
    Yup:

    "When these changes are implemented, Gear Score scaling will only apply to items sold or traded after that patch."

    Everything you own now or get for the next few weeks until they implement that patch is exempt from downscaling.

    They also mention that there may be future quests (select legendary armor pieces maybe?) and gear from those will also be exempt.
    The_KorriganAsm0deus
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 2,949
    edited December 2021
    Asm0deus said:
    This is great news all the bitching we did in the official forums helped I guess along with the drastic drop in playerbase......now to see if peeps will come back!

    To me that decision changed everything.

    Not only crafters get rewarded instead of punished, but they also don't annihilate the work of questers who got those 580 weapons. It also makes the Commander faction gear more valuable as it can't be bypassed by buying 580+ gear at the AH the minute you hit 60.

    BUT it still makes crafted and sold items valuable.

    They are on the right track. It's obvious that this time, they brainstormed a lot before releasing that new version. Hopefully it will become an habit...
    KyleranAsm0deus

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,910
    Asm0deus said:
    This is great news all the bitching we did in the official forums helped I guess along with the drastic drop in playerbase......now to see if peeps will come back!
    A lot of that bitching in the official forums spelled out quite clearly how disrespectful the system as originally announced was to crafters as well as any of who had already acquired high end gear for a lot of coin on the trading post.

    The gripes about the cost of gypsum orbs and casts and the cooldowns for the different types of gypsum drops, piddly expertise bumps per gypsum cast which were just 1 more often than not, etc., were also heard and acted upon.

    I remember in ESO similar outcries about some changes in the PTR, for example the jewelry crafting mats requirements, that were totally ignored with 100% developer silence.

    Watching developers, any developers, get off their "we know best" high horse and make these types of changes is a totally new experience for me.
    The_KorriganKyleranAsm0deusTimukas
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 2,949
    Iselin said:

    Watching developers, any developers, get off their "we know best" high horse and make these types of changes is a totally new experience for me.

    Agreed. That and the fact that the winter event is just awesome... I just hope it's not "too little, too late".
    KyleranAsm0deusTimukas

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 17,967
    Iselin said:
    Kyleran said:
    I guess if their developers actually played MMORPGs they'd have a better ideas about how things should work
    Not like that would ever happen. I expect most developers do play the game but play it casually. Not like they're going to work on it all day and then go home and spend 6 more hours playing it. Some of the finer points and details when playing a game only come to light when you experience them yourself playing more than just casually.

    The ins and outs of this expertise system is a 60+ gearing thing. I wouldn't expect anyone under 60 or anyone 60+ and not currently involved in trying to improve their gear to care much either way,

    I mean... who works at a bakery and then spends all their leisure time baking? :)
    We live in a digital age, it is very easy to ask players what they think of various systems before and during implementation. I think developers are in a quandary about what advice to take, after all we have our share of rubbish suggestions on here and I doubt I am the only one to have said that developers need to make changes the players will not like.

    Their answer to this seems to be to only take action when there is near universal player discontent about an issue, which we have seen before in MMOs time and time again. That is an inefficient way of using player advice but it seems the only one they all use.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 17,967
    Iselin said:

    Watching developers, any developers, get off their "we know best" high horse and make these types of changes is a totally new experience for me.

    Agreed. That and the fact that the winter event is just awesome... I just hope it's not "too little, too late".
    While I have concerns about how well that will go I would not let it question the fact they can turn the game round, it is only a little over two months out. What concerns me more is pandering to player demands, this decision for crafting seems right to me but they need to be making decisions because they realise what the best play is, players invested in the game are not always a good guide.
    KyleranThe_KorriganRungar
  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan Member RarePosts: 2,949
    Scot said:
    Iselin said:

    Watching developers, any developers, get off their "we know best" high horse and make these types of changes is a totally new experience for me.

    Agreed. That and the fact that the winter event is just awesome... I just hope it's not "too little, too late".
    While I have concerns about how well that will go I would not let it question the fact they can turn the game round, it is only a little over two months out. What concerns me more is pandering to player demands, this decision for crafting seems right to me but they need to be making decisions because they realise what the best play is, players invested in the game are not always a good guide.

    People who grinded chests invested in the game too... some even cry now on the official forums, but nothing close to the shitstorm about the previous version of this system.

    I think this system is the best for the FUTURE of the game. Right now they would be wrong to nerf people who played the game the way it was intended. All this will be negated in the first expansion with level increase and addition of a new tier, and THEN the expertise system will be perfect.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 1,132
    this game stinks of horrible and poorly thought out designs but its equally bad to be giving in to the player mob for fear of them quitting. 

    it seems like everything they do results in another hole to fall into.  




    IselinTimukas
    .05 of a second to midnight
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,910
    edited December 2021
    Scot said:
    Iselin said:

    Watching developers, any developers, get off their "we know best" high horse and make these types of changes is a totally new experience for me.

    Agreed. That and the fact that the winter event is just awesome... I just hope it's not "too little, too late".
    While I have concerns about how well that will go I would not let it question the fact they can turn the game round, it is only a little over two months out. What concerns me more is pandering to player demands, this decision for crafting seems right to me but they need to be making decisions because they realise what the best play is, players invested in the game are not always a good guide.
    Pandering is one extreme and arrogance is the other.

    It all comes down to the art of listening and knowing how to filter out noise and then having the humility to do something other than what you originally intended if you've been convinced that it's a better thing to do.

    Just like all players invested are not always a good guide, neither are game changes designed in isolation from the invested players.

    In this case they have kept all of their original changes including gear downscaling to expertise and the new gypsum mold crafting system but they have adjusted its implementation sensibly and tweaked some of the details.

    I guess you actually have to play the game and be a 60 doing the current gearing up grind to actually see this for the exceptionally good collaborative change that it is.

    If you have no first hand knowledge of what is changing or why it's changing you might think this is about pandering - it isn't - and it's also a remarkable and humble developer response. It's something to be praised.

    Of course trolls and others who are more concerned with showing us all that they are in fact the second coming of Nostradamus will find fault - they always spin for fault.
    The_KorriganScot
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • SKlTZOSKlTZO Member UncommonPosts: 14
    Well they set the bar fairly low to begin with but it’s definitely much better, especially for crafters. The HWM system is still garbage though, IMHO of coarse.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    Iselin said:
    lahnmir said:
    Iselin said:
    Kyleran said:
    I guess if their developers actually played MMORPGs they'd have a better ideas about how things should work
    Not like that would ever happen. I expect most developers do play the game but play it casually. Not like they're going to work on it all day and then go home and spend 6 more hours playing it. Some of the finer points and details when playing a game only come to light when you experience them yourself playing more than just casually.

    The ins and outs of this expertise system is a 60+ gearing thing. I wouldn't expect anyone under 60 or anyone 60+ and not currently involved in trying to improve their gear to care much either way,

    I mean... who works at a bakery and then spends all their leisure time baking? :)
    But Kyle is definitely 60+. Ohhh, you mean levels….

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    I started the game at 71 and am 72 now :)
    Happy birthday mate. Wish you another 72 years of fine gaming. 
    IselinAsm0deus
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,266
    Iselin said:
    lahnmir said:
    Iselin said:
    Kyleran said:
    I guess if their developers actually played MMORPGs they'd have a better ideas about how things should work
    Not like that would ever happen. I expect most developers do play the game but play it casually. Not like they're going to work on it all day and then go home and spend 6 more hours playing it. Some of the finer points and details when playing a game only come to light when you experience them yourself playing more than just casually.

    The ins and outs of this expertise system is a 60+ gearing thing. I wouldn't expect anyone under 60 or anyone 60+ and not currently involved in trying to improve their gear to care much either way,

    I mean... who works at a bakery and then spends all their leisure time baking? :)
    But Kyle is definitely 60+. Ohhh, you mean levels….

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    I started the game at 71 and am 72 now :)
    Happy birthday mate. Wish you another 72 years of fine gaming. 
    One of the few times I'm happy there are other players higher in "level" than I am.

    ;)
    Asm0deusConstantineMerus

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    Kyleran said:
    Iselin said:
    lahnmir said:
    Iselin said:
    Kyleran said:
    I guess if their developers actually played MMORPGs they'd have a better ideas about how things should work
    Not like that would ever happen. I expect most developers do play the game but play it casually. Not like they're going to work on it all day and then go home and spend 6 more hours playing it. Some of the finer points and details when playing a game only come to light when you experience them yourself playing more than just casually.

    The ins and outs of this expertise system is a 60+ gearing thing. I wouldn't expect anyone under 60 or anyone 60+ and not currently involved in trying to improve their gear to care much either way,

    I mean... who works at a bakery and then spends all their leisure time baking? :)
    But Kyle is definitely 60+. Ohhh, you mean levels….

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    I started the game at 71 and am 72 now :)
    Happy birthday mate. Wish you another 72 years of fine gaming. 
    One of the few times I'm happy there are other players higher in "level" than I am.

    ;)
    Nice try Ky, we all know that you are at least 95. 

    ;)

    Jokes aside, I think, hmm, you are 65. You just sound 95 and act like, well, 25.
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
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