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Loot Boxes Are Predatory - It's Time Netmarble Gets Rid of Them | MMOWTF | MMORPG.com

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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,287
    tawess said:
    Again the core problem in my mind s not even the pseudo-gambling. 

    It is the fact that these companies hire people who make their living finding new ways to sucker you out of your money (because that is what a casino is designed to do...) but rather than being more or less upfront about it like a casino... They try to play it off as some innocent fun.... 

    Unless you are EA... Then you just make it the core gameplay mechanic... *looks at FIFA FUT* 

    Every company hires people who make their living finding ways to encourage customers to provide more profit regardless of the nature of the business or what they sell. This is in no way limited to companies with chance based offerings.
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,556
    Baseball cards were the first gacha and P2W. Followed by every other trading card then Magic etc..

    Arguing about how others spend their money for hobbies like mobile games that technically do not require spending money is how far we've devolved as a community. Not being able to recognize the difference between monetization in games with broad sweeping generalizations against games that do not warrant the condemnation is proof of how far we've fallen.

    Circa 2000-2005 no one was trying to shame others for subbing for games or even buying gold from 3rd party sites... Subs were the first games as a service...

    2021 if a game company provides an 'optional' pay service while simultaneously giving EVERYONE even ftp players hundreds/thousands of dollars worth of free digital goods yearly they are given a black label. Not being able to see beyond the p2w or whale aspect of monetization isn't a problem with the game it's the individual. You may not be able to play a game competitively due to not being whale hard but that rule also applies to everything else in life... Don't go to the casino if you don't have extra cash... don't buy a car or house if you don't have the income to pay it off... it's all common sense stuff..

    A few addicts unable to control themselves means the entire system should be changed? What about the few alcoholics that can't control the amount they drink so all alcohol should be banned... come on..

    If anything there should be more guidance towards how to safely spend in games like those anti-addiction posters they have above urinals in casino bathrooms lol.

    Here are some basic mobile gaming rules for those caught unawares by the kracken expedition Netmarble made in Future Revolution...

    1. Don't spend any large sum of money(w/e that amount is to you) until you've determined the real value of everything being sold in the game.

    2. Do not listen to streamer advice. They double dip from youtube views AND sometimes also from the game companies of games they give 'advice' about. Many of them are also heavily addicted to the games they are trying to give 'reasonable' information about.

    3. Figure out what YOU want to accomplish in the game and the minimal amount you will be satisfied with. If you feel that the minimal amount you will be satisfied in a game is not enough then find another game. There will be a game out there that you will settle on because not all of them are not the same in terms of outrageous monetization.. Tons of btp and real microtransaction games like Clash Royale.

    4. This is a hard one but find people in the games to play with that can give you early and honest starting advice. The amount of time you will rake up in mobile games can end up being a lot so if you find like minded individuals with similar goals willing to help each other along your entire experience will be improved vs going it alone.

    Scorchienbcbully
  • Deathkon1Deathkon1 Member RarePosts: 714
    edited November 2021
    Took me less than 2 seconds to search and find multiple studies as recent as this year related to the subject. It's not hard. As the topic continues to get more traction and more regulation happens we're going to hear more about this stuff whether we want to or not. 
    Sadly this is the case thus is the fate of our society just talk and talk until nothing happens or something happens

    its kinda cute this kinda debate reminds me how politics work talk and talk nothing gets done until it goes from 0 to 100 I find this adorable and all but even I get sick of hearing about it
    maskedweasel
    Fantasy is often prettier then reality
    The hardest thing in life to learn is which bridge to cross and which to burn
    ​Without ​​​wrong, there is no right

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  • Deathkon1Deathkon1 Member RarePosts: 714
    edited November 2021
    Anyone who thinks (most) loot-boxes are like a casino then either has never been to a casino or never had purchased any loot-boxes. 
    I am willing to bet on both lol being the case here  :D
    Fantasy is often prettier then reality
    The hardest thing in life to learn is which bridge to cross and which to burn
    ​Without ​​​wrong, there is no right

    Sad Music
    https://bit.ly/3AWEEvF
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,287
    BruceYee said:
    Baseball cards were the first gacha and P2W. Followed by every other trading card then Magic etc..

    This is not actually true.

    See a baseball card package, would give you a card, they became more or less valuable not based on their rarity from the bubble gum pack, but on the players future performance. But you always got a few cards and a stick of gum.

    With Magic. You got 1 rare, 3 uncommon, 7 commons and 10 lands.

    You will always get a rare card, which one is optional, but every single pack ensured you would get a rare card. You will always get those Uncommon and Common cards as well, as such, you will always get what you paid for. 1 random rare, 3 random uncommon, and 7 random commons. This is a fixed set.

    Unlike Look Boxes, which what you get is a total gamble, you might get an ultra rare, you might get a pile of shit, this, MTG boosters were not anything like gacha or loot boxes in modern MMO's.

    Now.. IF.. loot boxes were like MTG card booster packs, where the make up was identical for every single one of them, with a guaranteed outcome of quality of product, none of us would be having this discussion, because it would feel a lot more fair exchange of goods regarding what we were getting for our money.

    As opposed to a complete random spin the wheel type of gamble on what we might get, that currently exists.
    laseritKyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,287
    Ungood said:
    BruceYee said:
    Baseball cards were the first gacha and P2W. Followed by every other trading card then Magic etc..

    This is not actually true.

    See a baseball card package, would give you a card, they became more or less valuable not based on their rarity from the bubble gum pack, but on the players future performance. But you always got a few cards and a stick of gum.

    With Magic. You got 1 rare, 3 uncommon, 7 commons and 10 lands.

    You will always get a rare card, which one is optional, but every single pack ensured you would get a rare card. You will always get those Uncommon and Common cards as well, as such, you will always get what you paid for. 1 random rare, 3 random uncommon, and 7 random commons. This is a fixed set.

    Unlike Look Boxes, which what you get is a total gamble, you might get an ultra rare, you might get a pile of shit, this, MTG boosters were not anything like gacha or loot boxes in modern MMO's.

    Now.. IF.. loot boxes were like MTG card booster packs, where the make up was identical for every single one of them, with a guaranteed outcome of quality of product, none of us would be having this discussion, because it would feel a lot more fair exchange of goods regarding what we were getting for our money.

    As opposed to a complete random spin the wheel type of gamble on what we might get, that currently exists.

    There is another difference between the two.

    The random CCG packs are the game, one that is sold to you randomly and in piecemeal, other than starter decks and the like.

    Loot boxes are supplementary to the game. They need not be purchased to build your capacity to play a pixel at a time. They need not be purchased at all.

    As far as randomly purchased things go I much prefer them being a voluntary side element of a game, even if entirely uncertain, than a central aspect of it that is slightly more certain.
  • bigtime102bigtime102 Member UncommonPosts: 176

    Scorchien said:

    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..



    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this



    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..



    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..



    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..










    Games are not just a hobby in isolation, youre playing against players, players who would all agree paying to get ahead is cheating. SImple as that. When it comes down to it your paying for an advanage, and sleezy developers are happy to sell it to you, dont need either of you.
    Scot
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,226

    Scorchien said:

    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..



    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this



    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..



    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..



    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..










    Games are not just a hobby in isolation, youre playing against players, players who would all agree paying to get ahead is cheating. SImple as that. When it comes down to it your paying for an advanage, and sleezy developers are happy to sell it to you, dont need either of you.
    What it comes down to is developers are selling advantage to players it's not cheating since it doesn't break the rules regardless how other players may feel about it.

    Trust me, developers only care about customers willing to pay them money, (the more $ the better) and there's clearly no shortage of those these days.

    So who's really not needed here?




    laserit

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Kyleran said:

    Scorchien said:

    Blah blah blah Bullshit ..



    So either you have the money and make a conscious decision to spend it on your Hobby ..Nothing wrong with this



    Or you dont have the money cant control yourself and impulse spend like low hanging fruit .. Something wrong with this .. Maybe focus on ones life more before you start pushing purchase buttons on a Game ..



    And if your a parent you should have full control over any purchases your kid is making , if you dont , your doing it wrong ..



    Games are no different than any other hobby , people not living within there means is always a problem , these individuals generally lack self control and disipline ..










    Games are not just a hobby in isolation, youre playing against players, players who would all agree paying to get ahead is cheating. SImple as that. When it comes down to it your paying for an advanage, and sleezy developers are happy to sell it to you, dont need either of you.
    What it comes down to is developers are selling advantage to players it's not cheating since it doesn't break the rules regardless how other players may feel about it.

    Trust me, developers only care about customers willing to pay them money, (the more $ the better) and there's clearly no shortage of those these days.

    So who's really not needed here?




    Unfortunately for us. Video Gaming is now considered a Cash Cow.

    There are still places where you can get amazing bargains on video entertainment. It’s still one of the most cost effective hobbies there is, if one’s prudent.

    When the little guys are all gone, that’s when your bell will ring true ;)

     Imho

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

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