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Is Play to Earn Real or is it All Just a Big Gimmick? | MMONFT | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 7,110
edited October 8 in Videos Discussion

imageIs Play to Earn Real or is it All Just a Big Gimmick? | MMONFT | MMORPG.com

Love them or hate them Blockchain Games are headed our way, often touting ways for players to earn hordes of cash, with can't miss opportunities. Steven looks into the validity of these claims in our first episode of MMONFT.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 531
    I don't play games to make money, let alone what I consider "funny" money.
    MendelmaskedweaselTheocritusbcbullyCelciusZenJelly
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 16,635
    edited October 8
    There is a link under the articles video, it is entitled "Read the full story here". It is not entitled "Introduction to a video", because that's all we got. I do realise this is the videos discussion section but we need somewhat more information on the videos content surely?

    Playing 200 to 600 dollars to "get started" in the biggest P2E game there is shows you where these games are going. For someone in the western world this money can be developed into game resources that give you what is described as a "minimum wage, or less".

    Other P2E games rely hugely on luck, if you don't get lucky you lose out, there is a reason I call this 'casino gameplay'.

    I notice that Horse Racing game BCbully goes on about is shown here as an example of exactly the sort of game you don't want to play.

    This video is a deep look at what is going on in P2E, best I have seen. If you search You Tube for cryptocurrency games nearly all you find is videos lauding the whole concept by those who have a vested interest in P2E.

    maskedweaselYashaX
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 7,128
    Earning in pay to earn games is simple: You can earn money as long as other players lose more money.

    Some people will earn: Usually these people are early investors, successful traders, content creators, and the occasional person who wins virtual lottery. But on average players must constantly spend more money than they get, because the devs need money for game's upkeep and development (and their own profits) just like all other game companies out there.
    KyleranbcbullyMcSleaz
     
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,746
    Honest to goodness sounds too good to be true. I am convinced with no evidence whatsoever I will lose money rather than make any if I do take the plunge.
    McSleaz

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Member RarePosts: 3,230
    The more I read about this...stuff, the more I get flashbacks to my early adulthood. Sitting through meetings with my father who was heavily invested in Amway, wondering why it all seemed to good to be true. "Just buy our products (and convince another 100 people to as well) and you'll be raking in the dough."
    Yeah, right...
    MendelKyleranUngoodYashaX

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • DattelisDattelis Member UncommonPosts: 242
    Honestly sounds like a pyramid scheme in a way. Companies reach out to content creators offering their crypto, then the creators hype it and sell at around the peak to walk away with as much as possible before it crashes. Rinse and repeat. Unfortunately, I dont play games to make money, but I guess its good for people that do?
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 9,789
    You mentioned blockchain


    A wild BCbully appeared!
    maskedweaselSandmanjwQuizzicalScot
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,228
    There are a lot of games coming down the pipe that are doing something related to blockchain this or metaverse that. I'm definitely interested in checking them out. 

    I think crypto could add just one more aspect to a good game that might be fun.

    But the biggest problem I see is how cutthroat so many games are right now. Like in the video with blankos block party, I've actually tried to get some of the rare blankos on release and they sell out immediately and then get resold for a crazy amount of money. 

    Every release is like trying to buy a PS5 or RTX 3080. You can wait patiently and be ready to buy the moment the blanko drops, and in 30 seconds you end up with nothing and someone else ends up with 5 of them ready to resell them for 500% markup. 

    I dont want to see my games turn into that.  
    KyleraniamspamicusUngood



  • WargfootWargfoot Member EpicPosts: 1,087
    There was a point in my life where I'd laugh at the coming implosion of these games; however, I'm old enough now where my only response will likely be "yeah..well, yet again with the nonsense."
    WhiteLantern
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,663
    Let's set aside what real games do for the moment and just consider the economic theory.  There are a lot of people in the world who would be willing to play games for a living for $1/hour.  Why should anyone hire you over one of them?

    There are several reasons why they might:

    1)  You're willing to play for less.  There's no obvious reason why it shouldn't be possible to earn a penny per hour by playing games.  Plenty of people make more than that, such as gold farmers in a lot of games, or people who sell their account when they quit.  But if you're rich enough to sometimes pay for games, that's not enough for you to make a living.

    2)  The people who are willing to work for less don't have access to the game.  This is the case for a lot of real-life jobs.  Your real-life job probably either requires you to be in a particular location that the really poor people in the world can't reach or else requires credentials or training that they don't have.  That's mostly not the case for online gaming.

    3)  You're far better at the game than nearly everyone else.  There are many people in the world who are willing to play football for a whole lot less than Patrick Mahomes, but most of them are so much worse at playing the game in ways that NFL teams care about that no NFL team is willing to hire them.  While this can happen and there are professional gamers, you shouldn't assume that you'll happen to be one of the few who are good enough to make decent money.

    4)  Making money off of the game is really about luck and not skill, so you don't reliably make money and are likely to lose it instead.  If you go to a casino, bet a lot of money, and get lucky, you could make a lot of money per hour that you're there.  It's easier to lose a whole lot of money than it is to gain it, however.  That's not really viable as a job.

    5)  You've found some market inefficiency that most other people aren't aware of.  It may well be possible to make good money for a short period of time until others realize it and undercut your wages.  This is hard to find, however, and don't count on it lasting for long.  Don't quit your day job just because you find a way to make good money on a game for a week.

    And that's it really.  Don't plan on "play to earn" working in any way other than those listed above.
    maskedweaselMendelUngood
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,061
    edited October 8
    edit-must stay humble
    Ungood
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,061
    Quizzical said:
    Let's set aside what real games do for the moment and just consider the economic theory.  There are a lot of people in the world who would be willing to play games for a living for $1/hour.  Why should anyone hire you over one of them?

    There are several reasons why they might:

    1)  You're willing to play for less.  There's no obvious reason why it shouldn't be possible to earn a penny per hour by playing games.  Plenty of people make more than that, such as gold farmers in a lot of games, or people who sell their account when they quit.  But if you're rich enough to sometimes pay for games, that's not enough for you to make a living.

    2)  The people who are willing to work for less don't have access to the game.  This is the case for a lot of real-life jobs.  Your real-life job probably either requires you to be in a particular location that the really poor people in the world can't reach or else requires credentials or training that they don't have.  That's mostly not the case for online gaming.

    3)  You're far better at the game than nearly everyone else.  There are many people in the world who are willing to play football for a whole lot less than Patrick Mahomes, but most of them are so much worse at playing the game in ways that NFL teams care about that no NFL team is willing to hire them.  While this can happen and there are professional gamers, you shouldn't assume that you'll happen to be one of the few who are good enough to make decent money.

    4)  Making money off of the game is really about luck and not skill, so you don't reliably make money and are likely to lose it instead.  If you go to a casino, bet a lot of money, and get lucky, you could make a lot of money per hour that you're there.  It's easier to lose a whole lot of money than it is to gain it, however.  That's not really viable as a job.

    5)  You've found some market inefficiency that most other people aren't aware of.  It may well be possible to make good money for a short period of time until others realize it and undercut your wages.  This is hard to find, however, and don't count on it lasting for long.  Don't quit your day job just because you find a way to make good money on a game for a week.

    And that's it really.  Don't plan on "play to earn" working in any way other than those listed above.
    axie. it works. read understand why and how
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,663
    Actually, there is a plausible reason to believe that blockchain games could generate big market inefficiencies that make it possible to make quite a bit of money for a while.  There's no way to get around the fundamental issue that the only way for you to make money off of a game is if someone else is losing it, but there is reason to believe that some people will lose quite a lot of money off of such games.

    Imagine for a moment that you bought in on cryptocurrencies early on.  You put tens of thousands of dollars into one or more cryptocurrencies on a lark, got tremendously lucky, and now, it's worth millions.  Imagine furthermore that you don't realize just how lucky you got, and think it was because you're a savvy investor.  So basically, you're:

    1)  rich,
    2)  stupid, and
    3)  a true believer in cryptocurrencies.

    Blockchain games need some whales to lose a ton of money in order for others trying to play to earn to be viable.  And who is going to sign up to lose millions of dollars?  You're pretty much the perfect mark.  Blockchain games cater heavily to your preferences, and your past experience has been that you throw money and blockchain stuff and get rich.  So why not diversify your holdings and bet that blockgain game NFTs are going to take off, too?

    There are a lot of such people out there, and they're holding a lot of dumb money.  Can blockchain games convince a handful of them to go full on blue whale and lose millions of dollars on a game, thinking that it's the next big investment?  Plausibly so.  And if so, then some crypto nuts losing many millions of dollars creates a real way for some other people to make millions.  But even if it works out that way, plenty of people are still going to lose a lot of money trying to get their part of those millions.
    Ungood
  • NeoyoshiNeoyoshi Member UncommonPosts: 369
    Isn't Blockchain and Crypto slowly being banned throughout the world? Or am not remembering how it's been rebuked publicly.


    Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,663
    Neoyoshi said:
    Isn't Blockchain and Crypto slowly being banned throughout the world? Or am not remembering how it's been rebuked publicly.
    Blockchain, no.  Blockchain is really just a type of database.

    Mined cryptocurrencies, on the other hand, are likely to face increasingly hostile scrutiny from governments.  But even if mined cryptocurrencies were banned worldwide, that wouldn't necessarily have to kill or even affect some blockchain games.
    Kyleran
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,061
    edited October 8
    Neoyoshi said:
    Isn't Blockchain and Crypto slowly being banned throughout the world? Or am not remembering how it's been rebuked publicly.
    China FUD. The US has stated the opposite. The FED is making its own crypto currency. Business around the world are building on Etherium. 
    maskedweasel
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 9,789
    edited October 8

    bcbully said:

    edit-must stay humble



    lol




    KyleranbcbullyScotUngood
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,061
    edited October 8
    Quizzical said:
    Actually, there is a plausible reason to believe that blockchain games could generate big market inefficiencies that make it possible to make quite a bit of money for a while.  There's no way to get around the fundamental issue that the only way for you to make money off of a game is if someone else is losing it, but there is reason to believe that some people will lose quite a lot of money off of such games.

    Imagine for a moment that you bought in on cryptocurrencies early on.  You put tens of thousands of dollars into one or more cryptocurrencies on a lark, got tremendously lucky, and now, it's worth millions.  Imagine furthermore that you don't realize just how lucky you got, and think it was because you're a savvy investor.  So basically, you're:

    1)  rich,
    2)  stupid, and
    3)  a true believer in cryptocurrencies.

    Blockchain games need some whales to lose a ton of money in order for others trying to play to earn to be viable.  And who is going to sign up to lose millions of dollars?  You're pretty much the perfect mark.  Blockchain games cater heavily to your preferences, and your past experience has been that you throw money and blockchain stuff and get rich.  So why not diversify your holdings and bet that blockgain game NFTs are going to take off, too?

    There are a lot of such people out there, and they're holding a lot of dumb money.  Can blockchain games convince a handful of them to go full on blue whale and lose millions of dollars on a game, thinking that it's the next big investment?  Plausibly so.  And if so, then some crypto nuts losing many millions of dollars creates a real way for some other people to make millions.  But even if it works out that way, plenty of people are still going to lose a lot of money trying to get their part of those millions.
    How about people buy something to play, like an axie. No one loses anything. They play, they earn, like axie. 

    Not sure how this is any different than buying a box then playing the game. 


    KyleranYashaX
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,447
    I'm going to go with big gimmick. Final answer, Regis.
    Mendel
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,061
    Iselin said:
    I'm going to go with big gimmick. Final answer, Regis.
    Ok Old eeer New World example. A person buys house (NFT) in your guilds provence. All guild members receive portion of that NFT cost. 

    Now guilds are throwing events in their town trying to attract residents. 


    Why the people who know more about mmorpgs than any people in the world are so aggressively closed minded to tech that can meaningfully change the bland bullshit they've been playing for 20 30 years is beyond me. 

    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Member RarePosts: 3,230
    bcbully said:
    Iselin said:
    I'm going to go with big gimmick. Final answer, Regis.


    Why the people who know more about mmorpgs than any people in the world are so aggressively closed minded to tech that can meaningfully change the bland bullshit they've been playing for 20 30 years is beyond me. 

    Because we've been watching Robert's and his vision of "new tech" offering these sameish promises fumble around for a decade without getting anywhere.
    Tech isn't the answer.

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,061
    bcbully said:
    Iselin said:
    I'm going to go with big gimmick. Final answer, Regis.


    Why the people who know more about mmorpgs than any people in the world are so aggressively closed minded to tech that can meaningfully change the bland bullshit they've been playing for 20 30 years is beyond me. 

    Because we've been watching Robert's and his vision of "new tech" offering these sameish promises fumble around for a decade without getting anywhere.
    Tech isn't the answer.
    No he offered you new marketing. You're smarter than that aren't you?
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,941
    bcbully said:
    Iselin said:
    I'm going to go with big gimmick. Final answer, Regis.
    Ok Old eeer New World example. A person buys house (NFT) in your guilds provence. All guild members receive portion of that NFT cost. 

    Now guilds are throwing events in their town trying to attract residents. 


    Why the people who know more about mmorpgs than any people in the world are so aggressively closed minded to tech that can meaningfully change the bland bullshit they've been playing for 20 30 years is beyond me. 

    Perhaps it's because like me, they aren't interested in turning their gaming into a paying job or investment opportunity.

    FOMO is strong motivator and seems to be core to the designs and markets of NFTs and Cryptogaming.

    Was mentioned several times, everyone wants to get in early and profit big afterwards, fun for many perhaps, but definitely not me.

    I don't like landrushes, auctions, market manipulation even when it's only worthless in game currency, tieing those all to real world currency is the last thing I'd ever want to do.

    When playing EVE I always paid for a sub, six of them on an annual basis towards the end.

    Even though I was bringing in enough ISK to never have to sub I still did anyways because I didn't want the "pressure" of having to make enough ISK to keep paying, already enough of that in my real life over the years.

    It's true, I do want something new and exciting in the MMORPG space, but this particular trend just isn't offering anything of interest, at least to me anyways, YMMV.
    bcbullymaskedweaselIselin

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 277
    It's a nice idea. I mean, who doesn't want to have fun and make money?

    I reckon it'll lure people in the same way streaming did: people who want to play games and make money. But just like streaming, the average person/player will never earn enough to make it worthwhile, guaranteed (I feel very confident in guaranteeing that). Those that do will be a very, very small percentage of the playerbase.

    Like my mum told me: If it sounds too good to be true, it is.


    Kyleran
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,061
    edited October 9
    Kyleran said:
    bcbully said:
    Iselin said:
    I'm going to go with big gimmick. Final answer, Regis.
    Ok Old eeer New World example. A person buys house (NFT) in your guilds provence. All guild members receive portion of that NFT cost. 

    Now guilds are throwing events in their town trying to attract residents. 


    Why the people who know more about mmorpgs than any people in the world are so aggressively closed minded to tech that can meaningfully change the bland bullshit they've been playing for 20 30 years is beyond me. 



    Was mentioned several times, everyone wants to get in early and profit big afterwards, fun for many perhaps, but definitely not me.

    I don't like landrushes, auctions, market manipulation even when it's only worthless in game currency, tieing those all to real world currency is the last thing I'd ever want to do.

    When playing EVE I always paid for a sub, six of them on an annual basis towards the end.

    Even though I was bringing in enough ISK to never have to sub I still did anyways because I didn't want the "pressure" of having to make enough ISK to keep paying, already enough of that in my real life over the years.

    It's true, I do want something new and exciting in the MMORPG space, but this particular trend just isn't offering anything of interest, at least to me anyways, YMMV.
    I agree with eveything you said right here. Idk about the video, but that land rush stuff is not for me. I don't fund the production of games. I play them. 

    That being said those who still do back projects through kick starters, founder packs, w/e,  these offerings, land, in game items, Initial Coin Offerings etc. are for them. These people may even actully get something of vaule for the risk they take on instead of the way things have been. In the case of ICOs they get that vaule immediately. The coins can be resold.

    Didn't you 'back/donate/lend" CU some money?  What did you get in return for your hard erned money? Shouldn't you get some type of intrest on the loan while they build game. Shouldn't you get something for your good fath and for assuming risk? It sure as hell doesn't look like you're getting a game...

    The industry is being changed by force. THANK GOODNESS. 2010-2021 The 80's all over again.
    Post edited by bcbully on
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
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