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Final Fantasy XIV's Sage Job Icon Changed Due To Trypophobia Concerns | MMORPG.com

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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Sovrath said:
    goozmania said:
    I would bet there are a significantly larger number of people with a deep fear of inevitably losing their freedoms, due to ridiculous crap like this.

    That's paranoia.

    Additionally, I'm sure those topics are discussed on platforms more appropriate for them over a video game website but "the angry people" never miss an opportunity to let us know how angry they are.

    Many things discussed here would be more appropriate elsewhere, but that seems to be rather selectively seen as an issue.
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,258
    MikeB said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scot said:

    Following the logical conclusion of what you have said, we should not have any spider icons and so on, it never ends.

    That isn't the logical conclusion of what I said.

    I don't think any creator should change a thing if they want that thing included in their work.

    If it's a "no biggie" then sure change it.

    If they aren't wedded to spider icons, they don't really care, it was just one of many decisions, then sure, if they'd like to change it then they can change it.

    If it's a part of the work, it makes sense to have it then they keep it and people with a fear of spiders who can't deal will just have to find another game.

    I've written pieces, where a singer was having issues with getting to a certain note or a clarinetist, was having a problem with a phrase.

    Since I could see alternate ways of writing the music and since those bits weren't set in stone, I changed it and for the better of the performance. If it was something I knew someone could do but they couldn't have done it AND it was necessary I wouldn't have changed it.



    Or they can add an arachnophobia mode option? As other games have done.




    Heh, almost looks more creepy xD



    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,171
    Sovrath said:
    goozmania said:
    I would bet there are a significantly larger number of people with a deep fear of inevitably losing their freedoms, due to ridiculous crap like this.

    That's paranoia.

    Additionally, I'm sure those topics are discussed on platforms more appropriate for them over a video game website but "the angry people" never miss an opportunity to let us know how angry they are.

    Many things discussed here would be more appropriate elsewhere, but that seems to be rather selectively seen as an issue.

    It's probably the site's moderators trying to give some leeway to discussion over being seen as tyrannical over every single topic.

    Still, I'm a big believer in "their site, house, business, land, "whatever;" their rules."
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 23,332
    MikeB said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scot said:

    Following the logical conclusion of what you have said, we should not have any spider icons and so on, it never ends.

    That isn't the logical conclusion of what I said.

    I don't think any creator should change a thing if they want that thing included in their work.

    If it's a "no biggie" then sure change it.

    If they aren't wedded to spider icons, they don't really care, it was just one of many decisions, then sure, if they'd like to change it then they can change it.

    If it's a part of the work, it makes sense to have it then they keep it and people with a fear of spiders who can't deal will just have to find another game.

    I've written pieces, where a singer was having issues with getting to a certain note or a clarinetist, was having a problem with a phrase.

    Since I could see alternate ways of writing the music and since those bits weren't set in stone, I changed it and for the better of the performance. If it was something I knew someone could do but they couldn't have done it AND it was necessary I wouldn't have changed it.



    Or they can add an arachnophobia mode option? As other games have done.




    Come on we can't expect every game to cover every possible phobia, they asked this to be done that is not the same as expecting every game to look for every possible phobia.

    If my previous post was too rant worthy my apologies, but I stand by my last remarks unless someone who knows more about psychiatry can tell us differently. I know of no treatment that suggests you can recover from a phobia long term by avoiding it. Perhaps avoidance is a stop gap method and you could justify this purely on that basis. But surely any professional would look to a cure at least a partial one? That's why I said long term, is avoidance the best course for someone who has a condition like this?
    Kyleran
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    goozmania said:
    I would bet there are a significantly larger number of people with a deep fear of inevitably losing their freedoms, due to ridiculous crap like this.

    That's paranoia.

    Additionally, I'm sure those topics are discussed on platforms more appropriate for them over a video game website but "the angry people" never miss an opportunity to let us know how angry they are.

    Many things discussed here would be more appropriate elsewhere, but that seems to be rather selectively seen as an issue.

    It's probably the site's moderators trying to give some leeway to discussion over being seen as tyrannical over every single topic.

    Still, I'm a big believer in "their site, house, business, land, "whatever;" their rules."

    Yes, it is their approach of giving selective leeway. Their site, their rules is the way of things so one must accept that if not support it.

    So it is with any participatory media. Those that own it control it, subject to whatever constraints any overseeing government body imposes.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Scot said:
    MikeB said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scot said:

    Following the logical conclusion of what you have said, we should not have any spider icons and so on, it never ends.

    That isn't the logical conclusion of what I said.

    I don't think any creator should change a thing if they want that thing included in their work.

    If it's a "no biggie" then sure change it.

    If they aren't wedded to spider icons, they don't really care, it was just one of many decisions, then sure, if they'd like to change it then they can change it.

    If it's a part of the work, it makes sense to have it then they keep it and people with a fear of spiders who can't deal will just have to find another game.

    I've written pieces, where a singer was having issues with getting to a certain note or a clarinetist, was having a problem with a phrase.

    Since I could see alternate ways of writing the music and since those bits weren't set in stone, I changed it and for the better of the performance. If it was something I knew someone could do but they couldn't have done it AND it was necessary I wouldn't have changed it.



    Or they can add an arachnophobia mode option? As other games have done.




    Come on we can't expect every game to cover every possible phobia, they asked this to be done that is not the same as expecting every game to look for every possible phobia.

    If my previous post was too rant worthy my apologies, but I stand by my last remarks unless someone who knows more about psychiatry can tell us differently. I know of no treatment that suggests you can recover from a phobia long term by avoiding it. Perhaps avoidance is a stop gap method and you could justify this purely on that basis. But surely any professional would look to a cure at least a partial one? That's why I said long term, is avoidance the best course for someone who has a condition like this?

    We can't expect any game to cover any phobia. It is uncommon behaviour which I expect is partly why this particular incident is being highlighted.

    Avoidance doesn't cure phobias. It minimizes exposure to the trigger, and what that brings on.  A cure would be preferred but isn't always possible.

    Treatment exists, most notably exposure therapy and cognitive behaviour therapy. However, while these are the most successful they aren't always so and the process of trying to cure a phobia is arduous for the sufferer.

    Sometimes avoidance it the only viable option, such as when either of these two fail or the person is too psychologically fragile to even attempt them.

    Also, some triggers are so easily avoided while having little impact on the person's life that an actual cure may not be seen worth the extreme bother the process of it would be.

    Both cure and avoidance have their uses.
    Scot
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 23,332
    Scot said:
    MikeB said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scot said:

    Following the logical conclusion of what you have said, we should not have any spider icons and so on, it never ends.

    That isn't the logical conclusion of what I said.

    I don't think any creator should change a thing if they want that thing included in their work.

    If it's a "no biggie" then sure change it.

    If they aren't wedded to spider icons, they don't really care, it was just one of many decisions, then sure, if they'd like to change it then they can change it.

    If it's a part of the work, it makes sense to have it then they keep it and people with a fear of spiders who can't deal will just have to find another game.

    I've written pieces, where a singer was having issues with getting to a certain note or a clarinetist, was having a problem with a phrase.

    Since I could see alternate ways of writing the music and since those bits weren't set in stone, I changed it and for the better of the performance. If it was something I knew someone could do but they couldn't have done it AND it was necessary I wouldn't have changed it.



    Or they can add an arachnophobia mode option? As other games have done.




    Come on we can't expect every game to cover every possible phobia, they asked this to be done that is not the same as expecting every game to look for every possible phobia.

    If my previous post was too rant worthy my apologies, but I stand by my last remarks unless someone who knows more about psychiatry can tell us differently. I know of no treatment that suggests you can recover from a phobia long term by avoiding it. Perhaps avoidance is a stop gap method and you could justify this purely on that basis. But surely any professional would look to a cure at least a partial one? That's why I said long term, is avoidance the best course for someone who has a condition like this?

    We can't expect any game to cover any phobia. It is uncommon behaviour which I expect is partly why this particular incident is being highlighted.

    Avoidance doesn't cure phobias. It minimizes exposure to the trigger, and what that brings on.  A cure would be preferred but isn't always possible.

    Treatment exists, most notably exposure therapy and cognitive behaviour therapy. However, while these are the most successful they aren't always so and the process of trying to cure a phobia is arduous for the sufferer.

    Sometimes avoidance it the only viable option, such as when either of these two fail or the person is too psychologically fragile to even attempt them.

    Also, some triggers are so easily avoided while having little impact on the person's life that an actual cure may not be seen worth the extreme bother the process of it would be.

    Both cure and avoidance have their uses.
    This is what I guessed, but I don't know as much about the psychological approach as I should. To me doing it in a game seems like good exposure therapy, you have an adverse reaction to spiders, bashing them in the game could be a help?

    But you have brought up something I should have realised, not all treatments work, so some people are going to be left with this regardless.

    What I think this boils down to me is that the players asked for it, as long as it is not expected in every game simply because those who don't play say "it should be so" then this is a reasonable approach.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    MikeB said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scot said:

    Following the logical conclusion of what you have said, we should not have any spider icons and so on, it never ends.

    That isn't the logical conclusion of what I said.

    I don't think any creator should change a thing if they want that thing included in their work.

    If it's a "no biggie" then sure change it.

    If they aren't wedded to spider icons, they don't really care, it was just one of many decisions, then sure, if they'd like to change it then they can change it.

    If it's a part of the work, it makes sense to have it then they keep it and people with a fear of spiders who can't deal will just have to find another game.

    I've written pieces, where a singer was having issues with getting to a certain note or a clarinetist, was having a problem with a phrase.

    Since I could see alternate ways of writing the music and since those bits weren't set in stone, I changed it and for the better of the performance. If it was something I knew someone could do but they couldn't have done it AND it was necessary I wouldn't have changed it.



    Or they can add an arachnophobia mode option? As other games have done.




    Come on we can't expect every game to cover every possible phobia, they asked this to be done that is not the same as expecting every game to look for every possible phobia.

    If my previous post was too rant worthy my apologies, but I stand by my last remarks unless someone who knows more about psychiatry can tell us differently. I know of no treatment that suggests you can recover from a phobia long term by avoiding it. Perhaps avoidance is a stop gap method and you could justify this purely on that basis. But surely any professional would look to a cure at least a partial one? That's why I said long term, is avoidance the best course for someone who has a condition like this?

    We can't expect any game to cover any phobia. It is uncommon behaviour which I expect is partly why this particular incident is being highlighted.

    Avoidance doesn't cure phobias. It minimizes exposure to the trigger, and what that brings on.  A cure would be preferred but isn't always possible.

    Treatment exists, most notably exposure therapy and cognitive behaviour therapy. However, while these are the most successful they aren't always so and the process of trying to cure a phobia is arduous for the sufferer.

    Sometimes avoidance it the only viable option, such as when either of these two fail or the person is too psychologically fragile to even attempt them.

    Also, some triggers are so easily avoided while having little impact on the person's life that an actual cure may not be seen worth the extreme bother the process of it would be.

    Both cure and avoidance have their uses.
    This is what I guessed, but I don't know as much about the psychological approach as I should. To me doing it in a game seems like good exposure therapy, you have an adverse reaction to spiders, bashing them in the game could be a help?

    But you have brought up something I should have realised, not all treatments work, so some people are going to be left with this regardless.

    What I think this boils down to me is that the players asked for it, as long as it is not expected in every game simply because those who don't play say "it should be so" then this is a reasonable approach.

    It may be or not be good exposure therapy. Each case varies a great deal. I wouldn't be surprised if it were suggested when thought helpful.

    Any players that feel they can expect such accommodation as in this case will soon learn otherwise. This isn't something commonly done.

    Even if one feels it should be so it cannot. Every possible opportunity for accommodation can't be identified let alone addressed. It's simply not feasible.
    Scot
  • jason523jason523 Member UncommonPosts: 96
    Everyone commenting here has a valid point. I think the real issue is why this merited an article or even a mention from Square-Enix to even lead to an article. Slow news day maybe?

    This is the sort of change that maybe (and a big maybe) that should be buried in the list of fixes in the patch notes. Or just left out and if it's asked about in some forums somewhere and a developer happens to see it and feels like answering then it gets some light shed on it.

    It's such a small and insignificant change (except to the small group that this afflicts) that it does not deserve the attention it is getting.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 23,332
    edited August 2021
    jason523 said:
    Everyone commenting here has a valid point. I think the real issue is why this merited an article or even a mention from Square-Enix to even lead to an article. Slow news day maybe?

    This is the sort of change that maybe (and a big maybe) that should be buried in the list of fixes in the patch notes. Or just left out and if it's asked about in some forums somewhere and a developer happens to see it and feels like answering then it gets some light shed on it.

    It's such a small and insignificant change (except to the small group that this afflicts) that it does not deserve the attention it is getting.
    We have talked before about how companies and governments like to be seen "getting something done about issues of the day" and how the media seems very ready to report anything that they do in this vein. Equally they are trying to make a difference and to not report such items at all would be just as odd. I don't think companies and media outlets can make a right decision here, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,993
    Obviously this has generated enough comments for it to be news worthy. 
    Scot[Deleted User]IselinKidRisk

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,171
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    goozmania said:
    I would bet there are a significantly larger number of people with a deep fear of inevitably losing their freedoms, due to ridiculous crap like this.

    That's paranoia.

    Additionally, I'm sure those topics are discussed on platforms more appropriate for them over a video game website but "the angry people" never miss an opportunity to let us know how angry they are.

    Many things discussed here would be more appropriate elsewhere, but that seems to be rather selectively seen as an issue.

    It's probably the site's moderators trying to give some leeway to discussion over being seen as tyrannical over every single topic.

    Still, I'm a big believer in "their site, house, business, land, "whatever;" their rules."

    Yes, it is their approach of giving selective leeway. Their site, their rules is the way of things so one must accept that if not support it.

    So it is with any participatory media. Those that own it control it, subject to whatever constraints any overseeing government body imposes.

    Let's not go conflating "government body" and "video game anything."

    That's for the tin foil hat brigade.


    KidRisk
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 605
    edited August 2021

    Xatsh said:

    There is a phobia for almost everything.... seems sorta pointless. How about fear of spiders, snakes, deep water and heights. Or the dreaded fear of the color green, Prasinophobia.



    I exect them to immediately address those as well....



    But in all seriousness this is a waste of dev. Time.



    Yeah I think pretty much any childhood trauma can turn into a phobia later on.
    There's no end to accomodating people with phobias.
    Someone mentionned spiders. Yeah good example, are we to remove all spiders from all MMOs because some rare individuals are afraid of them?
    Where are they going with this?
    I have a phobia irl as well, fear of heights. Do I go around asking MMO devs to remove verticality from their game world? No.


    Post edited by Gitmix on
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,041
    Gitmix said:

    Xatsh said:

    There is a phobia for almost everything.... seems sorta pointless. How about fear of spiders, snakes, deep water and heights. Or the dreaded fear of the color green, Prasinophobia.



    I exect them to immediately address those as well....



    But in all seriousness this is a waste of dev. Time.



    Yeah I think pretty much any childhood trauma can turn into a phobia later on.
    There's no end to accomodating people with phobias.
    Someone mentionned spiders. Yeah good example, are we to remove all spiders from all MMOs because some rare individuals are afraid of them?
    Where are they going with this?
    It all depends on the amount of effort required really. Changing a single icon takes a minimum amount of effort and, apparently, helps a certain group of people. Changing every single spider like creature in a huge game takes a lot of effort and might not be worth it.

    Going over to your friends house not wearing that ugly, old Yogi Bear T-shirt because he is afraid of bears is no problem right? Going over bear chested because he is afraid of upper clothing in general less so.

    There really isn’t a slippery slope or ‘pandering to every person with a phobia out there’ situation. Little effort maximum result? Companies love that. The other way around? Nah, not really.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 340
    I've got this phobia, can't be that bad though as that icon didn't give me the fear.

    Devs are just being considerate. They've decided to help out those with this phobia, there's nothing wrong with that.

    It's nothing special, we've all got fears, and I get how it may look to people who can't sympathize with it. Personally, every time this stuff gets talked about it brings me back to the first image I saw that really messed with me. It's a horrific feeling, but that's life ain't it?  :#
  • GrintchGrintch Member UncommonPosts: 132
    If it was such a "trivial" fix and not virtue signaling, then why would they even mention it?
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,900
    edited August 2021
    Grintch said:
    If it was such a "trivial" fix and not virtue signaling, then why would they even mention it?
    Perhaps it is virtue signaling? Or perhaps they felt they needed to give fansites who had copied the old icon a heads-up? Or perhaps some other reason?

    My guess is that their reason for telling us is "trivial" enough that they didn't bother to tell us why they told us.
    Post edited by Vrika on
    [Deleted User]
     
  • fineflufffinefluff Member RarePosts: 561
    Grintch said:
    If it was such a "trivial" fix and not virtue signaling, then why would they even mention it?
    To let players and websites know that the icon has changed so they stop using the old one and start using the new one. It is important for branding and marketing reasons as the icon had already been revealed. If the icon had not been previously revealed, then we would likely have never heard about this change. 

    I bet they have made a lot of changes to accommodate players, but those changes were done during the design phase before being revealed so they were never publicized.
    mklinic
  • jerycho007jerycho007 Member UncommonPosts: 3
    It's not even recognized by the dsm though?
  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 664
    Zegaloth said:
    Don't really care about the phobia, we all have things we have issues with cant fix them all but if it helps then cool. I'm not really calling ff14 out in this but just devs in general, they are all so quick so fix trivial things like this but so slow to fix bugs that are around forever. Or performance issues that remain forever.

    It's almost like opening a paint editor for a 30 second touch up, is a lot easier to fix than a bug in millions of lines of code..

    No I get that. But Its the fact there is other things that affect the entire player base that could be looked at. However seeing as its just an icon for a class its really not that big of a deal either way. Its not a drastic change to the game or anything, its just id prefer to see focus elsewhere. My point more so was that a small amount makes a point this makes them feel uncomfortable and its fixed right away.. How many are going to be looking at the icon for a long period or time or even playing the class? But a bug that's encountered daily but everyone usually stays for months. That's what i was trying to say. 

    All honesty, either way you look at it, it's really not that big of a deal. Again not really calling out square at all.
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