I was pondering this, do you guys think that EQ will die out anytime soon? I personally dont think it will with as much content thats in the game, yes the graphics arent next gen but that doesent matter...... what do you guys think?
Originally posted by djnexus I was pondering this, do you guys think that EQ will die out anytime soon? I personally dont think it will with as much content thats in the game, yes the graphics arent next gen but that doesent matter...... what do you guys think?
die out as in shut down? i don't think it will be shut down, no.....not any time soon. as far as dying down, it already has and i suspect if vanguard is successful it will die down even more but they wont shut it down i don't think.
No, EQ will not "die out" anytime soon. It may not still be the best selling or the leader anymore, but it has a deep fanbase and a lot of us will keep both our EQ accounts going so that we will always have a online home.
I play four MMO's right now... I was up to 6 (but quit the juvenile WoW and the horrible SWG (after JTL) ), just for the diversity.. but I will always keep EQ paid for.
As long as Sony exists, I will bet there will be a fully operational EQ server at the very least!
SoE may ceased to exist (not in the near future), but I am pretty sure EQ would survive them. I even can see EQ been in classroom, for students and everything...
And they will say stuff like: Do you realize, to get a character level 65 like we gave you now, some peoples play more than a year online, 24 hours a day, in played time, usually spread in less than 2 years...
As to paying for EQ, I do understand how some folks feels, but I don't share the feeling, the day the game stop to be fun, I try to adapt to raiding since it gave me sooo much fun. When I fail to find raiding fun, I left and start moaning and bitching online at how evil raiding is.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
die out as in shut down? i don't think it will be shut down, no.....not any time soon. as far as dying down, it already has and i suspect if vanguard is successful it will die down even more but they wont shut it down i don't think.
Vanguard will close it last server before EQ does two more merging sessions. EQ is the all time champion.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
SOE never closes down anything as far as i can tell . . . .well except for EQ for Macs :=/ EQOA is still under active development (it's actually getting a new zone in the next few months, believe it or not), and it can't have more than 30-40 K subs.
EQ is still probably in the top ten as far as total subscribers, I don't see it going anywhere soon. I also think that WoW has probably expanded the total market for MMORPGs. Some of the bored ex WoW players probaly trickle into EQ.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by angerr
die out as in shut down? i don't think it will be shut down, no.....not any time soon. as far as dying down, it already has and i suspect if vanguard is successful it will die down even more but they wont shut it down i don't think.
Vanguard will close it last server before EQ does two more merging sessions. EQ is the all time champion.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
Congrats! you win stupid post of the day award!! Pick up your prize at the front desk, it's called a hammer to the forehead!
Anofalye: Hello I'm here to pick up my prize!!
clerk: Sure thing! Just lean over and sign on this dotted line.
Anofalye: This line??
clerk: It's the only dotted line on the whole damn paper! I mean *grin* yes that one. yeah you got it...
Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Anofalye
Vanguard will close it last server before EQ does two more merging sessions. EQ is the all time champion.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
Congrats! you win stupid post of the day award!! Pick up your prize at the front desk, it's called a hammer to the forehead!
Anofalye: Hello I'm here to pick up my prize!!
clerk: Sure thing! Just lean over and sign on this dotted line.
Anofalye: This line??
clerk: It's the only dotted line on the whole damn paper! I mean *grin* yes that one. yeah you got it...
*WHACK*
*thump*
You sir are the perfect example of what Vanguard is...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Anofalye
Vanguard will close it last server before EQ does two more merging sessions. EQ is the all time champion.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
You sir are the perfect example of what Vanguard is...
You say EQ is "the all time champion". EQs endgame was raiding. period. Vanguard will be the same. I know you hate raiding, so how can you say you loved EQ and you hate Vanguard (when it's not even out yet) when they basically target the same damn audience.
And it's outright laughable to say "it will entertain for an evening".
No, leave that to watered down games like WoW and CoH, Vanguard should have tons more depth than those easymode games. But I know I can't expect to change your mind that all raid games are automatically evil (even when they aren't out yet) just because you don't have the patience for it.
Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Anofalye
Vanguard will close it last server before EQ does two more merging sessions. EQ is the all time champion.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
You sir are the perfect example of what Vanguard is...
You say EQ is "the all time champion". EQs endgame was raiding. period. Vanguard will be the same. I know you hate raiding, so how can you say you loved EQ and you hate Vanguard (when it's not even out yet) when they basically target the same damn audience.
And it's outright laughable to say "it will entertain for an evening".
No, leave that to watered down games like WoW and CoH, Vanguard should have tons more depth than those easymode games. But I know I can't expect to change your mind that all raid games are automatically evil (even when they aren't out yet) just because you don't have the patience for it.
EQ success, like WoW, was built around grouping and soloing. Peoples didn't play EQ because of the raiding. To think so is...frivolous at best. Yet, peoples are growing extremely tired of been denied their rightfull progression.
BioWare understands all those basics and a LOT more, stuff I would not even try to explain as I struggle with understanding them.
EQ was the all-time champion, due to it appearance in time. In 1998 there was: EQ for grouping/soloing long term MMO playing, there was no other options (AC has a pyramidal sickening system and UO is not 3D). Thinking Vanguard will prosper a long time is funny, I don't see any reason why someone who want to GROUP or SOLO (the core of the players) would bear raiding again. I don't think raiders surrounded by raiders would last long either, so not only is Vanguard missing the core of the players, they are trying to get players who can't bear each other. Don't you think for 1 moment that AL, FoH and TR would be happy to be on the same non-instanced server.
A good raiding game would be a game that don't reward raiders over non-raiders. Best groupers deserve to be grouper, period. The game can be as hard or as easy as you want, this is not my point and I don't really care that much about it as long as grouping rewards are given inside group, not anything else, not even raiding, PvP or tradeskill.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
EQ success, like WoW, was built around grouping and soloing. Peoples didn't play EQ because of the raiding. To think so is...frivolous at best. Yet, peoples are growing extremely tired of been denied their rightfull progression.
LOL...unless you live in a cave you are going to know what the endgame of EQ is by the time you reach level 20. I guarentee you most of those who still play EQ are raiders, casual or hardcore.
BioWare understands all those basics and a LOT more, stuff I would not even try to explain as I struggle with understanding them.
Thinking Vanguard will prosper a long time is funny, I don't see any reason why someone who want to GROUP or SOLO (the core of the players) would bear raiding again. I don't think raiders surrounded by raiders would last long either, so not only is Vanguard missing the core of the players, they are trying to get players who can't bear each other. Don't you think for 1 moment that AL, FoH and TR would be happy to be on the same non-instanced server
Well I guess 4 million subscribers think differently then you apparently. Here's a little secrect for you: WoW's endgame is guess, what? RAIDING!!! I guess that dispels your whole stupid theory that most gamers hate raiding, now doesn't it?
Non-instance is a good thing if you like the idea of competition, but thats a different subject all together.
A good raiding game would be a game that don't reward raiders over non-raiders. Best groupers deserve to be grouper, period.
This was tried once, I think it was called DDO. Good idea in theory but they executed it very poorly.
Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Anofalye
Vanguard will close it last server before EQ does two more merging sessions. EQ is the all time champion.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
You sir are the perfect example of what Vanguard is...
You say EQ is "the all time champion". EQs endgame was raiding. period. Vanguard will be the same. I know you hate raiding, so how can you say you loved EQ and you hate Vanguard (when it's not even out yet) when they basically target the same damn audience.
And it's outright laughable to say "it will entertain for an evening".
No, leave that to watered down games like WoW and CoH, Vanguard should have tons more depth than those easymode games. But I know I can't expect to change your mind that all raid games are automatically evil (even when they aren't out yet) just because you don't have the patience for it.
Watered down game with 6 million+ subscribers you will bow down to! Puny little Vanguard is nothing but watered down EQ and will not succeed.
Originally posted by Heltern Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Anofalye
Vanguard will close it last server before EQ does two more merging sessions. EQ is the all time champion.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
You sir are the perfect example of what Vanguard is...
You say EQ is "the all time champion". EQs endgame was raiding. period. Vanguard will be the same. I know you hate raiding, so how can you say you loved EQ and you hate Vanguard (when it's not even out yet) when they basically target the same damn audience.
And it's outright laughable to say "it will entertain for an evening".
No, leave that to watered down games like WoW and CoH, Vanguard should have tons more depth than those easymode games. But I know I can't expect to change your mind that all raid games are automatically evil (even when they aren't out yet) just because you don't have the patience for it.
Watered down game with 6 million+ subscribers you will bow down to! Puny little Vanguard is nothing but watered down EQ and will not succeed.
Why do people bring up subscription numbers like they mean something? There are so many variables that go into how many subscribers a game finally gets. But I wouldn't begin to put quality on the top of that list of variables. Not even second or third.
What makes a game good is how much YOU like it. Not someone else. It's not a popularity contest.
Well, maybe for some it is. I guess they need that reinforcement of their decision to make it legitimate for them.
$oE was all but dead a month ago when they desperatly started hyping a classis not classic "progression" server where users would be free to unlock access to the next expansion EQ server. For years user's pleas in the $oE EQ forums for a chance to play 'classic' EQ w/o all the 'game ruining' expansions; devs always responded it was impossible due to their neglect in saving the old EQ code, and the effort it would be to reexamine the code they did have and make it compatible with old-EQ era zones, and there were not enough employees avail since they were comitted to forcing out their next 6 month bug ridden expansion... ect.
Then over the last two years with half to 2/3s total player population revolting (canceling their $ subscriptions, and excess multi-box accounts) the $oE process of firing 'excess' GMs , and raising subscriptions to try and maintain their bogus profits became aparent it was not working.
Their lies about +400k to even +600k current subscribers were readily aparent as fabrications, when they were "merging" half to 2/3s their servers (EQ, EQ2, swg,) and EVEN in those "merged" servers the populations were still less... meaning HUGE #s of people were nolonger playing... The Combine ("progressive" server) this june was to be $oE's last attempt to milk subscriber $, since they finally admited unlocking the next expansion would not be solely up to player's actions, in fact the devs were intending from the start to prolong the current expansion by forced date limitation so fanatical serious EQ experts would not burn through all 10 or 12 expansions in a month or two (ie. stopgaps.)
Then $oE scored another life-preserver when it lucked out and purchased rights to host Vanguard:Saga of Heroes retail servers, and manage the $ from those subscriptions paying Sigil a cut (that is like they outsourced their next game and got it cheap [M$ payed most of the initial costs for the last four years] by bringing Sigil back into the fold.)
But to spite the die-hard EQ fanatics, often THOUSANDS (even +10,000) resubscribing, $oE agan shafts those wanting to play on Combine by limiting the population of that server to about 3k, and ALL the others wanting to play will be blocked from accessing that server (SoE has a long history of servers crashing between 2 and 3k population, and serious crashes +3500 [hence the 'free server tsfr/ server splits' in the past to avoid the code-hardware problems instead of fixing them.]) As it stands, unless there are multible "progression" type servers huge #s of EQ/all access subscribers will just be left out in the cold, not unlike wow's +5000 ques to access their popular servers. It is not like SoE does not have many unused server clusters (from the many shut down EQ, EQ2, swg servers) unless they were leased and nolonger avail (save $, lease rather than buy, especially with populations in steady decline since 2003 !) W/o Combine and V:SoH the <200k april SoE subscribers would have been near 100k June.
So, there you have it, with The Combine, and before the end of 2006, the addition of many (six to fiveteen) V:SoH servers, SoE has managed to stave off it's termination for at least two more years, and most of Sony's eggs are in the PS3 ($600 to $900) consoul basket anyway.
all they need are new people in, and with a life of 6 years already, that means a whole new group of people avilalbe to play and pay. Each year will add thousands who can now play, just as each year will lose thousands.
Personally I think EQ has a LOT of time left in it. Sure, new games will come out with bells and whistles but I don't think that's what keeps subscribers happy. Content, stuff to do, social interaction and goals.. all keep subscribers - more so than flashy graphics and EQ has plenty of stuff to do!!
Originally posted by djnexus I was pondering this, do you guys think that EQ will die out anytime soon? I personally dont think it will with as much content thats in the game, yes the graphics arent next gen but that doesent matter...... what do you guys think?
EQ1 still has the best game world of all of the, good race and class selection, and overall good mechanics. Newer games appear still be experimenting with too many horrible new ideas to put out decent games. I see nothing now and on the horizon that will kill off EQ entirely.
Originally posted by djnexus I was pondering this, do you guys think that EQ will die out anytime soon? I personally dont think it will with as much content thats in the game, yes the graphics arent next gen but that doesent matter...... what do you guys think?
The graphics are leaps and bounds ahead of some things out there, and some of the new zone redesignes are incredible. They need to do all the old world zones, make the game more prettierestest (my own word)
Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by angerr
die out as in shut down? i don't think it will be shut down, no.....not any time soon. as far as dying down, it already has and i suspect if vanguard is successful it will die down even more but they wont shut it down i don't think.
Vanguard will close it last server before EQ does two more merging sessions. EQ is the all time champion.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
I think you don't get it, hum, hum, Vanguard is already attracting a lot guilds from WoW and from EQ, Far as I know 3 of the 6 top end EQ guilds(serverwde) are moving to Vanguard:Saga of heroes, and from the wow 8 alliance and 4 horde guild are coming to play vanguard, that makes 12 guilds. Also, the developers of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes are people that were in the development of the orginal EQ. Brad McQuaid; EQ,RoK,SoV. Steve clover: EQ,RoK,SoV, SoL and PoP.
Originally posted by Dimitrio Far as I know 3 of the 6 top end EQ guilds(serverwde) are moving to Vanguard:Saga of heroes, and from the wow 8 alliance and 4 horde guild are coming to play vanguard, that makes 12 guilds
And thats great. I've seen the exact same game migration (and annoucement) every time a new game is released.
I'd like to point out one small thing... your math. You've collated "3 of the 6 top end EQ guilds" out of... how many servers? True there aren't as many as their used to be, but I've yet to see anyone on Druzzil Ro, make any noise about leaving EQ - move to the progressive server, yes, move away from EQ, no.
World of WarCraft, same question, how many servers do they have, that your 12 guilds will impact?
I think over all, assuming your numbers are hard and solid (which I doubt), your still looking at a drop in the bucket of players for both games. There will come a day, when the servers are shut off, but it will be long down the road and many games from now. The player base, whatever it is, is still making just a tad to much money for SoE to just shut it down.
IMO
---------------------------------------- My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
Originally posted by bhug 06.06.02 $oE was all but dead a month ago when they desperatly started hyping a classis not classic "progression" server where users would be free to unlock access to the next expansion EQ server. For years user's pleas in the $oE EQ forums for a chance to play 'classic' EQ w/o all the 'game ruining' expansions; devs always responded it was impossible due to their neglect in saving the old EQ code, and the effort it would be to reexamine the code they did have and make it compatible with old-EQ era zones, and there were not enough employees avail since they were comitted to forcing out their next 6 month bug ridden expansion... ect. Then over the last two years with half to 2/3s total player population revolting (canceling their $ subscriptions, and excess multi-box accounts) the $oE process of firing 'excess' GMs , and raising subscriptions to try and maintain their bogus profits became aparent it was not working. Their lies about +400k to even +600k current subscribers were readily aparent as fabrications, when they were "merging" half to 2/3s their servers (EQ, EQ2, swg,) and EVEN in those "merged" servers the populations were still less... meaning HUGE #s of people were nolonger playing... The Combine ("progressive" server) this june was to be $oE's last attempt to milk subscriber $, since they finally admited unlocking the next expansion would not be solely up to player's actions, in fact the devs were intending from the start to prolong the current expansion by forced date limitation so fanatical serious EQ experts would not burn through all 10 or 12 expansions in a month or two (ie. stopgaps.) Then $oE scored another life-preserver when it lucked out and purchased rights to host Vanguard:Saga of Heroes retail servers, and manage the $ from those subscriptions paying Sigil a cut (that is like they outsourced their next game and got it cheap [M$ payed most of the initial costs for the last four years] by bringing Sigil back into the fold.) But to spite the die-hard EQ fanatics, often THOUSANDS (even +10,000) resubscribing, $oE agan shafts those wanting to play on Combine by limiting the population of that server to about 3k, and ALL the others wanting to play will be blocked from accessing that server (SoE has a long history of servers crashing between 2 and 3k population, and serious crashes +3500 [hence the 'free server tsfr/ server splits' in the past to avoid the code-hardware problems instead of fixing them.]) As it stands, unless there are multible "progression" type servers huge #s of EQ/all access subscribers will just be left out in the cold, not unlike wow's +5000 ques to access their popular servers. It is not like SoE does not have many unused server clusters (from the many shut down EQ, EQ2, swg servers) unless they were leased and nolonger avail (save $, lease rather than buy, especially with populations in steady decline since 2003 !) W/o Combine and V:SoH the <200k april SoE subscribers would have been near 100k June. So, there you have it, with The Combine, and before the end of 2006, the addition of many (six to fiveteen) V:SoH servers, SoE has managed to stave off it's termination for at least two more years, and most of Sony's eggs are in the PS3 ($600 to $900) consoul basket anyway.
Great post, any proof of anything you say to back your words up? Or are you going to throw out the "Everyone knows it's true, noob." Line, or perhaps the "Anyone could find it if they looked." Line. The burden of proof is on you in this case.
No, the burden of proof is is the bottom line, Microsoft dumped that turd (after they studied what the subscription base was going to be, NONE) Vanguard and Everquest 1 and 2 both got flat OWNED by WoW. Good game design beats sorry design everyday.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
You say "has-been" as an insult. Has Been was, Has been's history. Has Been, might again.
It is easy to call someone a "has been" when one has "never been"- such irony. Strangely, the fact they "were" means they have incredible experience. If I had doubts about the game, the fact they are "has beens" would never be one; is actually a mark in their favour in my books.
That would be a valid argument, if it had any truth behind it. Microsoft didn't "dump" Vanguard. Microsoft was planning to make Vanguard a Windows Vista-only program, which would in turn make Vanguard lose a large player base. They then moved to SOE then to publish the game.
Get your facts straight before you post.
Originally posted by Heltern No, the burden of proof is is the bottom line, Microsoft dumped that turd (after they studied what the subscription base was going to be, NONE) Vanguard and Everquest 1 and 2 both got flat OWNED by WoW. Good game design beats sorry design everyday.
Comments
die out as in shut down? i don't think it will be shut down, no.....not any time soon. as far as dying down, it already has and i suspect if vanguard is successful it will die down even more but they wont shut it down i don't think.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
No, EQ will not "die out" anytime soon. It may not still be the best selling or the leader anymore, but it has a deep fanbase and a lot of us will keep both our EQ accounts going so that we will always have a online home.
I play four MMO's right now... I was up to 6 (but quit the juvenile WoW and the horrible SWG (after JTL) ), just for the diversity.. but I will always keep EQ paid for.
Bringing Chaos to your locale.
As long as Sony exists, I will bet there will be a fully operational EQ server at the very least!
SoE may ceased to exist (not in the near future), but I am pretty sure EQ would survive them. I even can see EQ been in classroom, for students and everything...
And they will say stuff like: Do you realize, to get a character level 65 like we gave you now, some peoples play more than a year online, 24 hours a day, in played time, usually spread in less than 2 years...
As to paying for EQ, I do understand how some folks feels, but I don't share the feeling, the day the game stop to be fun, I try to adapt to raiding since it gave me sooo much fun. When I fail to find raiding fun, I left and start moaning and bitching online at how evil raiding is.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Vanguard will close it last server before EQ does two more merging sessions. EQ is the all time champion.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
SOE never closes down anything as far as i can tell . . . .well except for EQ for Macs :=/ EQOA is still under active development (it's actually getting a new zone in the next few months, believe it or not), and it can't have more than 30-40 K subs.
EQ is still probably in the top ten as far as total subscribers, I don't see it going anywhere soon. I also think that WoW has probably expanded the total market for MMORPGs. Some of the bored ex WoW players probaly trickle into EQ.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Vanguard will close it last server before EQ does two more merging sessions. EQ is the all time champion.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
Congrats! you win stupid post of the day award!! Pick up your prize at the front desk, it's called a hammer to the forehead!
Anofalye: Hello I'm here to pick up my prize!!
clerk: Sure thing! Just lean over and sign on this dotted line.
Anofalye: This line??
clerk: It's the only dotted line on the whole damn paper! I mean *grin* yes that one. yeah you got it...
*WHACK*
*thump*
Congrats! you win stupid post of the day award!! Pick up your prize at the front desk, it's called a hammer to the forehead!
Anofalye: Hello I'm here to pick up my prize!!
clerk: Sure thing! Just lean over and sign on this dotted line.
Anofalye: This line??
clerk: It's the only dotted line on the whole damn paper! I mean *grin* yes that one. yeah you got it...
*WHACK*
*thump*
You sir are the perfect example of what Vanguard is...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You sir are the perfect example of what Vanguard is...
You say EQ is "the all time champion". EQs endgame was raiding. period. Vanguard will be the same. I know you hate raiding, so how can you say you loved EQ and you hate Vanguard (when it's not even out yet) when they basically target the same damn audience.
And it's outright laughable to say "it will entertain for an evening".
No, leave that to watered down games like WoW and CoH, Vanguard should have tons more depth than those easymode games. But I know I can't expect to change your mind that all raid games are automatically evil (even when they aren't out yet) just because you don't have the patience for it.
You sir are the perfect example of what Vanguard is...
You say EQ is "the all time champion". EQs endgame was raiding. period. Vanguard will be the same. I know you hate raiding, so how can you say you loved EQ and you hate Vanguard (when it's not even out yet) when they basically target the same damn audience.
And it's outright laughable to say "it will entertain for an evening".
No, leave that to watered down games like WoW and CoH, Vanguard should have tons more depth than those easymode games. But I know I can't expect to change your mind that all raid games are automatically evil (even when they aren't out yet) just because you don't have the patience for it.
EQ success, like WoW, was built around grouping and soloing. Peoples didn't play EQ because of the raiding. To think so is...frivolous at best. Yet, peoples are growing extremely tired of been denied their rightfull progression.
BioWare understands all those basics and a LOT more, stuff I would not even try to explain as I struggle with understanding them.
EQ was the all-time champion, due to it appearance in time. In 1998 there was: EQ for grouping/soloing long term MMO playing, there was no other options (AC has a pyramidal sickening system and UO is not 3D). Thinking Vanguard will prosper a long time is funny, I don't see any reason why someone who want to GROUP or SOLO (the core of the players) would bear raiding again. I don't think raiders surrounded by raiders would last long either, so not only is Vanguard missing the core of the players, they are trying to get players who can't bear each other. Don't you think for 1 moment that AL, FoH and TR would be happy to be on the same non-instanced server.
A good raiding game would be a game that don't reward raiders over non-raiders. Best groupers deserve to be grouper, period. The game can be as hard or as easy as you want, this is not my point and I don't really care that much about it as long as grouping rewards are given inside group, not anything else, not even raiding, PvP or tradeskill.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
EQ success, like WoW, was built around grouping and soloing. Peoples didn't play EQ because of the raiding. To think so is...frivolous at best. Yet, peoples are growing extremely tired of been denied their rightfull progression.
LOL...unless you live in a cave you are going to know what the endgame of EQ is by the time you reach level 20. I guarentee you most of those who still play EQ are raiders, casual or hardcore.
BioWare understands all those basics and a LOT more, stuff I would not even try to explain as I struggle with understanding them.
Thinking Vanguard will prosper a long time is funny, I don't see any reason why someone who want to GROUP or SOLO (the core of the players) would bear raiding again. I don't think raiders surrounded by raiders would last long either, so not only is Vanguard missing the core of the players, they are trying to get players who can't bear each other. Don't you think for 1 moment that AL, FoH and TR would be happy to be on the same non-instanced server
Well I guess 4 million subscribers think differently then you apparently. Here's a little secrect for you: WoW's endgame is guess, what? RAIDING!!! I guess that dispels your whole stupid theory that most gamers hate raiding, now doesn't it?
Non-instance is a good thing if you like the idea of competition, but thats a different subject all together.
A good raiding game would be a game that don't reward raiders over non-raiders. Best groupers deserve to be grouper, period.
This was tried once, I think it was called DDO. Good idea in theory but they executed it very poorly.
You sir are the perfect example of what Vanguard is...
You say EQ is "the all time champion". EQs endgame was raiding. period. Vanguard will be the same. I know you hate raiding, so how can you say you loved EQ and you hate Vanguard (when it's not even out yet) when they basically target the same damn audience.
And it's outright laughable to say "it will entertain for an evening".
No, leave that to watered down games like WoW and CoH, Vanguard should have tons more depth than those easymode games. But I know I can't expect to change your mind that all raid games are automatically evil (even when they aren't out yet) just because you don't have the patience for it.
Watered down game with 6 million+ subscribers you will bow down to! Puny little Vanguard is nothing but watered down EQ and will not succeed.
You sir are the perfect example of what Vanguard is...
You say EQ is "the all time champion". EQs endgame was raiding. period. Vanguard will be the same. I know you hate raiding, so how can you say you loved EQ and you hate Vanguard (when it's not even out yet) when they basically target the same damn audience.
And it's outright laughable to say "it will entertain for an evening".
No, leave that to watered down games like WoW and CoH, Vanguard should have tons more depth than those easymode games. But I know I can't expect to change your mind that all raid games are automatically evil (even when they aren't out yet) just because you don't have the patience for it.
Watered down game with 6 million+ subscribers you will bow down to! Puny little Vanguard is nothing but watered down EQ and will not succeed.
Why do people bring up subscription numbers like they mean something? There are so many variables that go into how many subscribers a game finally gets. But I wouldn't begin to put quality on the top of that list of variables. Not even second or third.
What makes a game good is how much YOU like it. Not someone else. It's not a popularity contest.
Well, maybe for some it is. I guess they need that reinforcement of their decision to make it legitimate for them.
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</OBAMA>
06.06.02
$oE was all but dead a month ago when they desperatly started hyping a classis not classic "progression" server where users would be free to unlock access to the next expansion EQ server. For years user's pleas in the $oE EQ forums for a chance to play 'classic' EQ w/o all the 'game ruining' expansions; devs always responded it was impossible due to their neglect in saving the old EQ code, and the effort it would be to reexamine the code they did have and make it compatible with old-EQ era zones, and there were not enough employees avail since they were comitted to forcing out their next 6 month bug ridden expansion... ect.
Then over the last two years with half to 2/3s total player population revolting (canceling their $ subscriptions, and excess multi-box accounts) the $oE process of firing 'excess' GMs , and raising subscriptions to try and maintain their bogus profits became aparent it was not working.
Their lies about +400k to even +600k current subscribers were readily aparent as fabrications, when they were "merging" half to 2/3s their servers (EQ, EQ2, swg,) and EVEN in those "merged" servers the populations were still less... meaning HUGE #s of people were nolonger playing... The Combine ("progressive" server) this june was to be $oE's last attempt to milk subscriber $, since they finally admited unlocking the next expansion would not be solely up to player's actions, in fact the devs were intending from the start to prolong the current expansion by forced date limitation so fanatical serious EQ experts would not burn through all 10 or 12 expansions in a month or two (ie. stopgaps.)
Then $oE scored another life-preserver when it lucked out and purchased rights to host Vanguard:Saga of Heroes retail servers, and manage the $ from those subscriptions paying Sigil a cut (that is like they outsourced their next game and got it cheap [M$ payed most of the initial costs for the last four years] by bringing Sigil back into the fold.)
But to spite the die-hard EQ fanatics, often THOUSANDS (even +10,000) resubscribing, $oE agan shafts those wanting to play on Combine by limiting the population of that server to about 3k, and ALL the others wanting to play will be blocked from accessing that server (SoE has a long history of servers crashing between 2 and 3k population, and serious crashes +3500 [hence the 'free server tsfr/ server splits' in the past to avoid the code-hardware problems instead of fixing them.]) As it stands, unless there are multible "progression" type servers huge #s of EQ/all access subscribers will just be left out in the cold, not unlike wow's +5000 ques to access their popular servers. It is not like SoE does not have many unused server clusters (from the many shut down EQ, EQ2, swg servers) unless they were leased and nolonger avail (save $, lease rather than buy, especially with populations in steady decline since 2003 !) W/o Combine and V:SoH the <200k april SoE subscribers would have been near 100k June.
So, there you have it, with The Combine, and before the end of 2006, the addition of many (six to fiveteen) V:SoH servers, SoE has managed to stave off it's termination for at least two more years, and most of Sony's eggs are in the PS3 ($600 to $900) consoul basket anyway.
Dead as in closed? or dead as in not many on?
all they need are new people in, and with a life of 6 years already, that means a whole new group of people avilalbe to play and pay. Each year will add thousands who can now play, just as each year will lose thousands.
Personally I think EQ has a LOT of time left in it. Sure, new games will come out with bells and whistles but I don't think that's what keeps subscribers happy. Content, stuff to do, social interaction and goals.. all keep subscribers - more so than flashy graphics and EQ has plenty of stuff to do!!
EQ1 still has the best game world of all of the, good race and class selection, and overall good mechanics. Newer games appear still be experimenting with too many horrible new ideas to put out decent games. I see nothing now and on the horizon that will kill off EQ entirely.
But I'm just guessing, of course.
Vanguard will close it last server before EQ does two more merging sessions. EQ is the all time champion.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
I think you don't get it, hum, hum, Vanguard is already attracting a lot guilds from WoW and from EQ, Far as I know 3 of the 6 top end EQ guilds(serverwde) are moving to Vanguard:Saga of heroes, and from the wow 8 alliance and 4 horde guild are coming to play vanguard, that makes 12 guilds. Also, the developers of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes are people that were in the development of the orginal EQ. Brad McQuaid; EQ,RoK,SoV. Steve clover: EQ,RoK,SoV, SoL and PoP.
Dimitrio Darkblade
Founder Leader of Vitae Essentia
http://www.veguild.org
I'd like to point out one small thing... your math. You've collated "3 of the 6 top end EQ guilds" out of... how many servers? True there aren't as many as their used to be, but I've yet to see anyone on Druzzil Ro, make any noise about leaving EQ - move to the progressive server, yes, move away from EQ, no.
World of WarCraft, same question, how many servers do they have, that your 12 guilds will impact?
I think over all, assuming your numbers are hard and solid (which I doubt), your still looking at a drop in the bucket of players for both games. There will come a day, when the servers are shut off, but it will be long down the road and many games from now. The player base, whatever it is, is still making just a tad to much money for SoE to just shut it down.
IMO
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My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.
Vanguard is the old bunch of retired peoples, big bunch of has-been, and they are trying to make a new team! It will amused folks for an evening, nothing more really.
You say "has-been" as an insult. Has Been was, Has been's history. Has Been, might again.
It is easy to call someone a "has been" when one has "never been"- such irony. Strangely, the fact they "were" means they have incredible experience. If I had doubts about the game, the fact they are "has beens" would never be one; is actually a mark in their favour in my books.
-W.
Ppl play WoW Because they can solo to 60...... then they quit, or go do the easymode Raiding. Oh, and EQ Wont Die anytime soon!
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com