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The future of mmos is rental servers.

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  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,198
    I see a useful adjunct to this 'rent-a-server' idea.   Get a couple of adventurous guilds who want to go at it.  Set up a base, agreed upon server.  Let the crews contend, without other, random players or guilds.  


    Rungar[Deleted User]Ungood

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,560
    Stizzled said:
    Nilden said:
     officially licensed WoW private server...

    Yeah I would say it's a pretty big stretch...

    Worlds Smallest Stretch Armstrong Is Our Kind of Fidget Toy
     
    Considering what happened with Nostalrius.
    Meaning? Nostalrius was an illegally ran server. Private does not have to mean unlicensed or illegal.

    If these groups can run an illegal server completely separate from Blizzard, why couldn't they do the same with a license and official support?

    Stop being vague and explain why it wouldn't work.
    Blizzard will never do it.

    I'm not saying they couldn't. They sure could cut a deal and sell an official license to run servers but they won't.

    They could have offered Nostralius a license. They didn't. 

    What would ever be the point when they can shut them all down and charge people subscriptions for classic on their own servers? 

    In fact I would say anything with GaaS would never want to have rental servers. For the cash shops alone.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

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  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,663
    Torval said:
    Nilden said:
    Well as someone who played on Ark and Conan Exiles on private servers that people rented...

    1) Its cheaper for the players as only one person has to rent the server.

    Point number one is vastly skipped over for that one guy just stopping the rental and *poof* goodbye server.

    Making @cheyane have an even more pertinent point.

    I responded to Cheyane about this concern but to restate the answer: those saves can be downloaded for most games. You're a Minecraft fan I kind of assumed you would be familiar with this.

    Many (most) hosted servers offer FTP or web service interfaces to both download and upload save files and world configurations/data. So if you're playing a local save it can also be uploaded so your friends can continue playing on the world you were experiencing on your local host.
    If you can download the saves then you can also manipulate those saves. In an MMORPG that kind of manipulation will kill the game.
    Chamber of Chains
  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 1,132
    the games are already thick with cheaters. Why do you think people want private servers?
    Kyleran
    .05 of a second to midnight
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,912
    edited May 2021
    I regard with some amusement the fact that Valheim is both a poster boy for this idea of private/hosted servers and yet some modders have decided that they want to make a proper MMORPG out of it. So players decided that the private servers where not enough, can we have more please they said.

    I am not saying this proves anything but it does show the tension between players here. I wonder if there is a cyclic effect? Players in MMOs wanting their own servers who play in them and then decide they want to be with more players again. After a while they decide they don't like the large population and round we go again. Could it be that gamers are never satisfied? :)
    UngoodRexKushman
  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 1,132
    Scot said:
    I regard with some amusement the fact that Valheim is both a poster boy for this idea of private/hosted servers and yet some modders have decided that they want to make a proper MMORPG out of it. So players decided that the private servers where not enough, can we have more please they said.

    I am not saying this proves anything but it does show the tension between players here. I wonder if there is a cyclic effect? Players in MMOs wanting their own servers who play in them and then decide they want to be with more players again. After a while they decide they don't like the large population and round we go again. Could it be that gamers are never satisfied? :)
    All i see is a demand for fully interactive worlds.  
    .05 of a second to midnight
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,663
    edited May 2021
    Torval said:
    cheyane said:
    Torval said:
    Nilden said:
    Well as someone who played on Ark and Conan Exiles on private servers that people rented...

    1) Its cheaper for the players as only one person has to rent the server.

    Point number one is vastly skipped over for that one guy just stopping the rental and *poof* goodbye server.

    Making @cheyane have an even more pertinent point.

    I responded to Cheyane about this concern but to restate the answer: those saves can be downloaded for most games. You're a Minecraft fan I kind of assumed you would be familiar with this.

    Many (most) hosted servers offer FTP or web service interfaces to both download and upload save files and world configurations/data. So if you're playing a local save it can also be uploaded so your friends can continue playing on the world you were experiencing on your local host.
    If you can download the saves then you can also manipulate those saves. In an MMORPG that kind of manipulation will kill the game.
    I'm not even sure where you're going with that or what you're thinking because it isn't a real world problem. This is not about providing game services to thousands of strangers. It's about playing with friends, guildies, or gaming groups on a dedicated server they all rent together. The only reputation issue would be between friends.

    Usually just one person is a server admin since the account is in one person's name. They have to do all of the FTP work to download or upload saves.

    So someone isn't going to sneakily download a save, use some editor (if one even exists) to manipulate something, and then stealthily upload it with no one the wiser. Most of these games support some sort of modding and an admin console so editing a save is unnecessary as the admin can do godlike functions without that.
    I was talking about Everquest 2 which is a game you play with people you don't really know and that is the same for many MMORPGs. So I don't understand how your solution to what I wrote even helps when that data can be manipulated.

    It is the same with Valheim where you can decide how much skill you can get and edit almost anything to change the amounts of material you have. People are even using the portal and doing some weird math to help bring stuff across. Sorry I don't recall the details.

    Playing with friends is never a problem you can already rent servers and play with them for a lot of survival games. MMORPGs however are a different kettle of fish.

    Why would a developer want to allow people to do this when they can make more money keeping you where they want you in a large MMORPG and charge you and sell you lootboxes and other moneymaking gimmicks.

    The minute they give players control over the game they lose the vehicle they need to make money. I don't see how this can happen in an MMORPG unless it profits them.

    They also need the data they can collect to tailor cash shop items and other systems they want to place to milk you further. For instance the "overseer" quest thing they introduced in Everquest2. Sorry my examples are all from EQ2 since I am experiencing this firsthand. They put this in for the sole purpose of getting people addicted to collecting agents and loot but at the same time spending significant amount of real money for DB coins.

    The other point is the way private servers police the people playing them where you have no recourse. In some ways although Project Gorgon is not private but because of how it is run it might as well be they ban people quite easily although I'm not questioning it here since I have no facts but that thread a couple months back threw some light on a game that has basically one person developing it and controlling it.

    By all means go ahead and play with friends in fact I wanted to play with Blue and you in Valheim but was worried about being attacked by creatures I had not yet engaged and it would have been super but it is not an MMORPG.
    delete5230ScotMendel[Deleted User]Champie
    Chamber of Chains
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,010
    I'm learning a lesion for myself the HARD WAY how irritating I can be by watching the "OP bump this post to keep it alive".... Even if most people disagree.  

    People tell me how irritating I am..... Now I understand !!!



     Both the OP and myself can learn something. 
    ScotUngoodChampie
  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 1,132
    You get wisdom by suffering, delete. 

    glad i could help :) 
    Scotdelete5230[Deleted User]ChampieUngoodKyleran
    .05 of a second to midnight
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited May 2021
    The real question for me is ..

      Why dont you just play with your friends/guild on the regular servers and turn off global chat ..
      It happens in many games as it is with no problems , ESO has over 70% of players soloing and they run around ignoring everyone else pretending they are NPC pixels ..


      The only games that i see any problem with would be a couple of older games like EQ and UO ..with camped areas
     
       All the other games you can just play with your friends and guildmates , Many people already do this ..
    ScotKyleran
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,912
    edited May 2021
    Scorchien said:
    The real question for me is ..

      Why dont you just play with your friends/guild on the regular servers and turn off global chat ..
      It happens in many games as it is with no problems , ESO has over 70% of players soloing and they run around ignoring everyone else pretending they are NPC pixels ..


      The only games that i see any problem with would be a couple of older games like EQ and UO ..with camped areas
     
       All the other games you can just play with your friends and guildmates , Many people already do this ..
    I mentioned myself that although I am against the idea of private servers being the best way forward, I use guilds in a similar way. The difference is most guild are open to outside players; be it to talk to, joint groups, roleplaying, joint crafting ventures, showing of their houses, whatever. Private servers seem far too insular, with the intention of saying insular and never looking outward, this is the bubbles of social media coming to gaming.
    MendelKyleran
  • ChampieChampie Member UncommonPosts: 130
    Both the OP and myself can learn something. 
    Me too, buddy! Glad to see that you are still kicking it around here!
    delete5230ScotUngood
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,558
    Torval said:
    Scot said:
    I regard with some amusement the fact that Valheim is both a poster boy for this idea of private/hosted servers and yet some modders have decided that they want to make a proper MMORPG out of it. So players decided that the private servers where not enough, can we have more please they said.

    I am not saying this proves anything but it does show the tension between players here. I wonder if there is a cyclic effect? Players in MMOs wanting their own servers who play in them and then decide they want to be with more players again. After a while they decide they don't like the large population and round we go again. Could it be that gamers are never satisfied? :)

    The 100+ player server is still private. It can be both. That's one of the points in the entire thread.

    From my perspective there isn't a singularly best way forward. Gaming is too diverse for that and as it grows it will continue to move beyond that sort of thinking. The best way to experience a game is different for most people, even within the MMO community.

    What I do see is that privately hosted worlds will continue to grow as an option due to the popular demand and appeal it offers along with the ability to offset server costs to the end users while still heavily monetizing the games.
    Probably why we have a bazillion number of MMO.  It's pretty hard to customize to everyone's need, so we only have a few direction at least at the moment.  
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,287
    Scorchien said:
    The real question for me is ..

      Why dont you just play with your friends/guild on the regular servers and turn off global chat ..
    I would say for the same reasons why I would not join a private server with my friends/guild, and just play on the official servers with them and turn off global chat if need be.

    To each there own, and personally I have nothing against the idea of MMO's having private servers, even if I have no desire to play on one.
    ChampieKyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • themarkwilkinsonthemarkwilkinson Newbie CommonPosts: 4
    I agree with this..
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 3,491
    Rungar said:
    I believe well see less and less big mmos, as its already trending this way and instead we will see the rise of the rental server. 

    1) Its cheaper for the players as only one person has to rent the server. 
    2) worlds can be more personalized in terms of rulesets
    3) people are generally tired of people they dont know and mmo management in general. They want smaller better communities with some control over who is there. 
    4) allows the use of mods to personalize the worlds to players liking on a server basis
    5) Is easier for developers as we go back to just making the games that can support a couple of hundred players at a time. 

    I can see a company like microsoft leading this providing top notch server technology at rental cost that can apply to multiple games. If they were smart it would be part of their windows store strategy. If they make all their games to leverage server rental they not only get to sell the games but also rent the server space. This will be the biggest incentive possible for online games sold by microsoft. Steam cannot compete with that directly. 

    Quite possibly. Legends of Aria tried something very close to this. That was available on Steam by the way, so it isn't something they, or at least games on their service, can't compete with.
  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 1,132
    Well i suppose they could if they wanted to be a hosting provider. They dont normally do that now i dont think. They should though. 
    .05 of a second to midnight
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