People will get dumber and dumber as we circle the drain to the abyss. As their minds weaken and degrade the requirement for things like complex games, or complex anything diminishes in favor of mass produced shallow games with fancy graphics.
For those gamers here who are older than I am, do u think the existing industry is doing well by you?
Since the answers are all said (I too believe the very root is at @cheyane's "Game companies do not consider us a viable source of good income."), I'd address only that closing question, and nope, the existing industry does almost nothing by me, besides keeps running a few of my old MMORPGs instead of cancelling them. For now.
When those will be gone, I'm afraid I'll mostly just play my good old singleplayer games
Do you think it is possible to design a game that has the same level of success as Fortnite, but with an average player age of 35+? Has this already happened and I just missed it or forgot about it?
Yep, that's already happened and had a huge part in the sorry state of the current industry, as it's opened the floodgate to the "non-gamers". It was Farmville...
Was a paradigm shift (and also the holy grail, or the motherlode from the dev's side), it has brought into games literal masses. 60-80 million players, and by Zynga player queries almost half of them never played anything before, an additional 20-25% only solitaire/minesweeper...
The industry tried for a few years now at that time to extend the overall playerbase, since WoW presented it can be done, and Farmville was the breakthrough.
That's why, as Kyleran exampled with Candy Crush, the titular older gamers is actually two-fold:
-older gamers in the sense you meant it in the OP (grew up on games, now in the 40s-60s, and still regular gamers of proper, "real" games), and
-older "gamers", the Farmville impact residue, a vastly larger group, who plays 10-20 minutes here and there on the mobile or through the browser.
This latter group is well catered by the industry...
I agree with all this, but also there's the time aspect, older gamers will have a job, a family and things that take priority over video games, some are more casual and play when they can.
For those gamers here who are older than I am, do u think the existing industry is doing well by you?
Since the answers are all said (I too believe the very root is at @cheyane's "Game companies do not consider us a viable source of good income."), I'd address only that closing question, and nope, the existing industry does almost nothing by me, besides keeps running a few of my old MMORPGs instead of cancelling them. For now.
When those will be gone, I'm afraid I'll mostly just play my good old singleplayer games
Do you think it is possible to design a game that has the same level of success as Fortnite, but with an average player age of 35+? Has this already happened and I just missed it or forgot about it?
Yep, that's already happened and had a huge part in the sorry state of the current industry, as it's opened the floodgate to the "non-gamers". It was Farmville...
Was a paradigm shift (and also the holy grail, or the motherlode from the dev's side), it has brought into games literal masses. 60-80 million players, and by Zynga player queries almost half of them never played anything before, an additional 20-25% only solitaire/minesweeper...
The industry tried for a few years now at that time to extend the overall playerbase, since WoW presented it can be done, and Farmville was the breakthrough.
That's why, as Kyleran exampled with Candy Crush, the titular older gamers is actually two-fold:
-older gamers in the sense you meant it in the OP (grew up on games, now in the 40s-60s, and still regular gamers of proper, "real" games), and
-older "gamers", the Farmville impact residue, a vastly larger group, who plays 10-20 minutes here and there on the mobile or through the browser.
This latter group is well catered by the industry...
I agree with all this, but also there's the time aspect, older gamers will have a job, a family and things that take priority over video games, some are more casual and play when they can.
Welcome to the forums!
Don't be too casual, post again soon.
Any idea what he meant by "things that take priority over video games?"
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I agree with all this, but also there's the time aspect, older gamers will have a job, a family and things that take priority over video games, some are more casual and play when they can.
Welcome to the forums!
Don't be too casual, post again soon.
Any idea what he meant by "things that take priority over video games?"
Nothing comes to mind atm.
You know.. Old people things.. like mowing the laws we all chase you offa.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Remember kids mobile games are the future look at konami them cancelling silent hill and focusing on mobile games on the side while pachinko machines being their main source of their income did wonders for them you to can degrade to trash like them and I'm talking to you game developers
❤X Trash X ❤
Personally, I think VR will be the next big step, I believe right now, Phone Games have their place, mainly because we use our phones a lot in our everyday life, as they are our day planners, newspapers, social networking, banking, credit checks, work, play, life tool, they are just so much a part of our lives that playing some Sudoku level time waster on them is just natural evolution.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I can't imagine a project manager walking into a room of devs and saying "OK I want you guys to make a multiplayer game that focuses on older players"..........
IDK if it is an older thing because even when much younger i didn't get into the kiddie type games.
So using an example,a game like Smash Bros would NEVR in my entire life appeal to me,wouldn't matter if i was 5 or 55.It was the same watching tv ,i was watching Johnny Carson and Honeymooners and Star trek,Lost in Space while other kids were watching cartoons.
So to me personally all those kid like games are just silly nonsense and would have never appealed to me.I incorporate a mindset like i do in all walks of life,i like to have a strategy and think a bit.So games like ARPGS turn me right off,mindless simple,i would get absolutely no enjoyment or satisfaction out of it at all.
I am not even sure that my current preference of survival game has any adult theme ties to it,i simply have evolved through the times,expecting a more robust interactive type game,a role play that feels immersive rather than following linear bread crumbs around.I like to feel OPEN ended in a world and not gaited behind invisible walls,i like a realistic setting/environment.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I can't imagine a project manager walking into a room of devs and saying "OK I want you guys to make a multiplayer game that focuses on older players"..........
But I can definitely imagine a project manager asking the devs to create a game which separates more older people from their money.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Remember kids mobile games are the future look at konami them cancelling silent hill and focusing on mobile games on the side while pachinko machines being their main source of their income did wonders for them you to can degrade to trash like them and I'm talking to you game developers
❤X Trash X ❤
Developers aren't the ones making monetization decisions and whether or not to cancel games. Just an FYI if you're new to how the world works.
I can't imagine a project manager walking into a room of devs and saying "OK I want you guys to make a multiplayer game that focuses on older players"..........
King and Zynga would like a word with you.
I'm pretty sure all ANY company EVER said was let's make money.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I don't really know that designing for an older audience is a winning strategy from a developer's perspective. They tend to look at numbers, and demographics always has a larger young population than its elderly counterpart. So, there will always be more money to be had from the younger population. It doesn't matter what the mindset who has; there's simply more of them.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I don't really know that designing for an older audience is a winning strategy from a developer's perspective. They tend to look at numbers, and demographics always has a larger young population than its elderly counterpart. So, there will always be more money to be had from the younger population. It doesn't matter what the mindset who has; there's simply more of them.
I'm not certain if this is necessarily true.
Certainly in the UK, we've been below 2 children per couple for a while now, we have an aging population and so that middle band is actually pretty big, and certainly has a lot more spare cash than children.
If you're only looking at current gamer demographics, then you might be right, but that's why I raised the question. Is it possible to bring those middle-aged former gamers back into the gaming community?
Thanks for all the responses on mobile gaming, and you're definitely correct in terms of appealing to a totally different set of players which a higher average age. Farmville's average user was apparently a 43 year old woman, and the game certainly made some decent money over the years!
I don't really know that designing for an older audience is a winning strategy from a developer's perspective. They tend to look at numbers, and demographics always has a larger young population than its elderly counterpart. So, there will always be more money to be had from the younger population. It doesn't matter what the mindset who has; there's simply more of them.
hmmm "maybe."
While Cheyne has a point regarding us older players being less inclined to buy loot boxes and use cash shops, we do have more money than younger people. for the most part.
How many times have you seen someone on this site say "I'd be willing to pay more than $15 per month for a great game."
I know I would and could do that.
All they'd have to do was make a great game and figure out a way where older players don't feel like they are being fleeced.
Also to another point, not every older player has "family" etc etc. I live in a city and am surrounded by adults who don't have families but do have disposable income. Heck, even I have disposable income and no family.
though clearly not as much disposable income as many of these people.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I don't really know that designing for an older audience is a winning strategy from a developer's perspective. They tend to look at numbers, and demographics always has a larger young population than its elderly counterpart. So, there will always be more money to be had from the younger population. It doesn't matter what the mindset who has; there's simply more of them.
hmmm "maybe."
While Cheyne has a point regarding us older players being less inclined to buy loot boxes and use cash shops, we do have more money than younger people. for the most part.
How many times have you seen someone on this site say "I'd be willing to pay more than $15 per month for a great game."
I know I would and could do that.
All they'd have to do was make a great game and figure out a way where older players don't feel like they are being fleeced.
Also to another point, not every older player has "family" etc etc. I live in a city and am surrounded by adults who don't have families but do have disposable income. Heck, even I have disposable income and no family.
though clearly not as much disposable income as many of these people.
Why do you think Cheyene has a good point about spending, as in what leads you to think they're on the mark? They made a claim with absolutely zero proof while revenue evidence points to exactly the opposite.
They could be correct when referring to the MMORPG niche sub-genre in PC gaming, but overall older people buy cash shop and loot crate items all the time. Look at the most profitable online social and mobile games and the revenue being spent.
Like you point out our age group tends to have a higher disposable income. I think there is a misconception that because loot crates and cash shops are unpopular here on this site for a certain set of games that they're unpopular everywhere, but that isn't true at all.
I didn't see any revenue evidence but I have heard/seen that many older players seem to be adverse to newer monetary practices.
Was there somewhere in this thread where a link was posted showing older players spending on loot boxes? If so then that would probably corroborate the idea that older players not only have money but are very ready to use it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Candy Crush is not an indication of what older MMORPG players will pay. This site however offers one a good indication of what older players like me are willing to spend on. Almost any thread on lootboxes or any MRT has been discussed here and the people who frequent this site and who form that older demographic has indicated their unwillingness to buy those things.
I bought stash tabs and a couple of outfits in Path of Exile because I was convinced the game deserved my support. Ordinarily I don't buy anything aside from a sub in many MMORPGs.
Even my old lady friends who has never even seen an MMORPG play candy crush. My husband plays it because he has a phone but he does not spend any money on it. He watches the ads.
Candy Crush is played by people on the toilet seat and isn't what I hope MMORPGs that the OP wants is aimed at.
Candy Crush is not an indication of what older MMORPG players will pay. This site however offers one a good indication of what older players like me are willing to spend on. Almost any thread on lootboxes or any MRT has been discussed here and the people who frequent this site and who form that older demographic has indicated their unwillingness to buy those things.
Even my old lady friends who has never even seen an MMORPG play candy crush. My husband plays it because he has a phone but he does not spend any money on it. He watches the ads.
Candy Crush is played by people on the toilet seat and isn't what I hope MMORPGs that the OP wants is aimed at.
Most of my friends aren't "gamers" and they certainly don't play mmorpg's let alone most other games but will play a mobile game here and there. It's a bit of a way of passing time.
But actually, buy a video game for pc or for console? I think I have 3 friends that do that.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Candy Crush is not an indication of what older MMORPG players will pay. This site however offers one a good indication of what older players like me are willing to spend on. Almost any thread on lootboxes or any MRT has been discussed here and the people who frequent this site and who form that older demographic has indicated their unwillingness to buy those things.
Even my old lady friends who has never even seen an MMORPG play candy crush. My husband plays it because he has a phone but he does not spend any money on it. He watches the ads.
Candy Crush is played by people on the toilet seat and isn't what I hope MMORPGs that the OP wants is aimed at.
Most of my friends aren't "gamers" and they certainly don't play mmorpg's let alone most other games but will play a mobile game here and there. It's a bit of a way of passing time.
But actually, buy a video game for pc or for console? I think I have 3 friends that do that.
Its easy to make a MMO for us older gamers. Just make a regular MMO without any microtransaction bullshit in it and you got me sold. Its the travesty of todays gaming, removing content and rewards from the game only to resell it to you in the in-game store. Thats a hard pass for me.
I prefer it the oldschool way, you buy the game, you got the game. Thats it. All content included, nothing cut short and sold back to you as a "DLC" or "expansion pack".
I saw someone earlier looking for a game with the sucess of fortnite but for 35+, there is. Its called Counter Strike, the game has a level playing field no matter if you invest money or not, the only thing money can bring you is skins on the weapons, gloves and knives and such, other then that its all up to you, and your team how much of a success you will have in the game.
Just buy the "prime" status to have less cheaters and you will have a decent time playing, there is ranked play on matchmaking. You may have to get your ass handed to you for a few games in order to get a rank suitable for your skill level, but once you got that done its all good from there on.
Even if older people are willing to spend on mobile games that does not mean that the MMORPG crowd is going to spend the money on the same things. We are talking about different types of games and this discussion isn't just about how older people spend their money but whether older MMORPG players the kind the OP wants games made for will spend their money on those things that game companies make money on.
The OP wants a certain type of game to be made but the type of players that want those types of games are known to be reluctant to spend their money as wantonly as game companies want for the type of profits they are looking for. My evidence for this is from this very forum by the number of threads people comment on that eschew lootboxes and other MRT.
As an older player, I am less inclined to play any kind of gambling mechanic, simply because that was how I was raised. Gambling was viewed as just throwing money away in my upbringing.
Also keep in mind my generation had to deal with CCG's, and while in those cases I was not really a gamble, as everyone got their rare card, and 3 uncommon and 5 commons, so, it was not a direct gamble even if it was an RNG game. So I am not inclined to buy Lootboxes where it walleyed crapshoot on what I will get.
But that in no way means I am not willing to spend money on my hobby. I have spent thousands on Miniatures, CCG's, and even silly things like fancy dice.
So in that venture, if you Give me an honest deal, and I'll buy it. So the money is there, they just need to be honest about getting it.
Which tells you all you need to know about the whole system.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Candy Crush is not an indication of what older MMORPG players will pay. This site however offers one a good indication of what older players like me are willing to spend on. Almost any thread on lootboxes or any MRT has been discussed here and the people who frequent this site and who form that older demographic has indicated their unwillingness to buy those things.
I bought stash tabs and a couple of outfits in Path of Exile because I was convinced the game deserved my support. Ordinarily I don't buy anything aside from a sub in many MMORPGs.
Even my old lady friends who has never even seen an MMORPG play candy crush. My husband plays it because he has a phone but he does not spend any money on it. He watches the ads.
Candy Crush is played by people on the toilet seat and isn't what I hope MMORPGs that the OP wants is aimed at.
It's always awkward when we make assumptions on what kind of gamer someone is based on their preferred game.
Believe it or not, Candy Crush took it to a competitive level in the UK last year.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Most of my friends aren't "gamers" and they certainly don't play mmorpg's let alone most other games but will play a mobile game here and there. It's a bit of a way of passing time.
But actually, buy a video game for pc or for console? I think I have 3 friends that do that.
I have the same experience, and I'm certain a lot of us here could see a similar ratio as well. That's why I said above it's two-fold, and actually your debate above with Torval is around that issue as well, since you talk about the "older gamers", and Torval talks about "older people" (who plays something).
Our issue (our = the older gamers in the sense camel means in the OP) is that we've fallen through between the two sides of older and gamers, which boils down to cheyane's "Game companies do not consider us a viable source of good income." summary.
From the age approach we're dwarfed by the much larger (and easier to please) crowd of "older people who plays something", and they're indeed -as Torval says- willing to spend tons on gambling, lootboxes, packs, CCS advancements, everything.
And from the "proper" games approach we're dwarfed by the much larger, core target audience for the game industry, the kids/teens/younger adults. Who are also willing to spend tons on gambling, lootboxes, packs, etc. - no coincidence, a simple straightforward result of the last decade and how they've grown up into gaming.
(just cited as an example in a recent thread when a kid didn't want to believe me a game from 2004 doesn't have a shop, since: all games have shops)
It doesn't mean we'll never see a game for us, camel mentions examples in the OP like strategy games, I'd add some adventure games as well, and the indie scene also offers games to the older gamers.
But it means the industry, the big names, big money AAA games will most likely avoid us.
Smaller teams, passion projects... those are our holographic Obi-wans. For moneymaking, we're simply not a good enough source of income, compared to the youth on one side, and the older people with mobiles on the other.
Comments
kinda like we see now.
Don't be too casual, post again soon.
Nothing comes to mind atm.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So using an example,a game like Smash Bros would NEVR in my entire life appeal to me,wouldn't matter if i was 5 or 55.It was the same watching tv ,i was watching Johnny Carson and Honeymooners and Star trek,Lost in Space while other kids were watching cartoons.
So to me personally all those kid like games are just silly nonsense and would have never appealed to me.I incorporate a mindset like i do in all walks of life,i like to have a strategy and think a bit.So games like ARPGS turn me right off,mindless simple,i would get absolutely no enjoyment or satisfaction out of it at all.
I am not even sure that my current preference of survival game has any adult theme ties to it,i simply have evolved through the times,expecting a more robust interactive type game,a role play that feels immersive rather than following linear bread crumbs around.I like to feel OPEN ended in a world and not gaited behind invisible walls,i like a realistic setting/environment.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Developers aren't the ones making monetization decisions and whether or not to cancel games. Just an FYI if you're new to how the world works.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
While Cheyne has a point regarding us older players being less inclined to buy loot boxes and use cash shops, we do have more money than younger people. for the most part.
How many times have you seen someone on this site say "I'd be willing to pay more than $15 per month for a great game."
I know I would and could do that.
All they'd have to do was make a great game and figure out a way where older players don't feel like they are being fleeced.
Also to another point, not every older player has "family" etc etc. I live in a city and am surrounded by adults who don't have families but do have disposable income. Heck, even I have disposable income and no family.
though clearly not as much disposable income as many of these people.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Was there somewhere in this thread where a link was posted showing older players spending on loot boxes? If so then that would probably corroborate the idea that older players not only have money but are very ready to use it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I bought stash tabs and a couple of outfits in Path of Exile because I was convinced the game deserved my support. Ordinarily I don't buy anything aside from a sub in many MMORPGs.
Even my old lady friends who has never even seen an MMORPG play candy crush. My husband plays it because he has a phone but he does not spend any money on it. He watches the ads.
Candy Crush is played by people on the toilet seat and isn't what I hope MMORPGs that the OP wants is aimed at.
But actually, buy a video game for pc or for console? I think I have 3 friends that do that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Sovrath said:
I prefer it the oldschool way, you buy the game, you got the game. Thats it. All content included, nothing cut short and sold back to you as a "DLC" or "expansion pack".
I saw someone earlier looking for a game with the sucess of fortnite but for 35+, there is. Its called Counter Strike, the game has a level playing field no matter if you invest money or not, the only thing money can bring you is skins on the weapons, gloves and knives and such, other then that its all up to you, and your team how much of a success you will have in the game.
Just buy the "prime" status to have less cheaters and you will have a decent time playing, there is ranked play on matchmaking. You may have to get your ass handed to you for a few games in order to get a rank suitable for your skill level, but once you got that done its all good from there on.
The OP wants a certain type of game to be made but the type of players that want those types of games are known to be reluctant to spend their money as wantonly as game companies want for the type of profits they are looking for. My evidence for this is from this very forum by the number of threads people comment on that eschew lootboxes and other MRT.
OMG why did you copy paste what I wrote?
As an older player, I am less inclined to play any kind of gambling mechanic, simply because that was how I was raised. Gambling was viewed as just throwing money away in my upbringing.
Also keep in mind my generation had to deal with CCG's, and while in those cases I was not really a gamble, as everyone got their rare card, and 3 uncommon and 5 commons, so, it was not a direct gamble even if it was an RNG game. So I am not inclined to buy Lootboxes where it walleyed crapshoot on what I will get.
But that in no way means I am not willing to spend money on my hobby. I have spent thousands on Miniatures, CCG's, and even silly things like fancy dice.
So in that venture, if you Give me an honest deal, and I'll buy it. So the money is there, they just need to be honest about getting it.
Which tells you all you need to know about the whole system.
Believe it or not, Candy Crush took it to a competitive level in the UK last year.
https://www.iol.co.za/technology/gaming/candy-crush-saga-gets-competitive-as-players-set-to-compete-in-tournament-e873a6dc-e473-44a8-b8fa-1e290db62a77
Wonder if the contestants all sat on gaming toilets instead of on chairs?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon