Even if I am totally wrong about that and Pantheon comes off as a perfect "EQ with modern graphics", it won't really offer anything new to the genre; just the same old ideas that players abandoned 15 years ago.
Except for the players who backed. It.
That's something you keep forgetting. There are actually players who want this type of gameplay yet you continually mention the idea that "players have abandoned it."
It seems there are quite a few players who seek out this type of gameplay. So, as long as the Pantheon developers are realistic with their numbers, it shouldn't be a problem.
I don't see that they have to do something "new" (is there really anything new or is it just the same stuff reimagined?) as long as they are making the game they want to make.
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I wish larger companies released more MMOs, with quicker development than these little guys. I think it is sad we have to wait 10+ years now for a new MMO. However, we do have some good MMOs already like WOW, LOTRO, & SWTOR. I just started getting more into all of these and I think they all are satisfying in their own way.
I think that's been the problem for awhile now, the larger companies abandoned the genre many years ago changing their focus on more profitable sub genres, at least if we're speaking of MMORPGS in particular.
Pretty much this. EA is a prime example. SWTOR actually isn't a bad mmorpg (well at least recently), but the heads of EA dont believe in mmorpgs. Hell, they barely came back around to the single player idea of games. And if they're using SWTOR as the basis as to why they wont make an actual mmorpg again, that's kind of dumb since not everyone likes star wars (crazy, I know). I kind of feel the same since SWTOR kind of feels like it can't really be more creative than it already has with classes and such. I mean even a Dragon Age mmorpg would have more potential since that game has always had a lot of class diversity and its their own IP so they can get as crazy as they want with it in regards to lore etc.
I wish larger companies released more MMOs, with quicker development than these little guys. I think it is sad we have to wait 10+ years now for a new MMO. However, we do have some good MMOs already like WOW, LOTRO, & SWTOR. I just started getting more into all of these and I think they all are satisfying in their own way.
I think that's been the problem for awhile now, the larger companies abandoned the genre many years ago changing their focus on more profitable sub genres, at least if we're speaking of MMORPGS in particular.
Pretty much this. EA is a prime example. SWTOR actually isn't a bad mmorpg (well at least recently), but the heads of EA dont believe in mmorpgs. Hell, they barely came back around to the single player idea of games. And if they're using SWTOR as the basis as to why they wont make an actual mmorpg again, that's kind of dumb since not everyone likes star wars (crazy, I know). I kind of feel the same since SWTOR kind of feels like it can't really be more creative than it already has with classes and such. I mean even a Dragon Age mmorpg would have more potential since that game has always had a lot of class diversity and its their own IP so they can get as crazy as they want with it in regards to lore etc.
Mass Effect MMORPG would be my dream game... just a giant open world mass effect mmo
IDK if anyone else gets the same vibes right before Vanguard but i get that with this game.
I remember VG was basically same old quite similar to the rest of the genre.VG banked on a couple new gimmicks,like actually seeing trees fall over and of course the umm what was it called,the sort of Diplomacy mini game idea.
This game has it's "perception"idea gimmick as well.However when i look for a game i might want to play,it is the CORE design that i look at,once the core is done up to my standards then sure added gimmicks add yet another layer. ANYTHING old school is no longer an acceptable standard,we broke through aged tech 10 years ago. Now even VERY small indie devs can make a more immersive game than the bigger mmorpg studios of old. There are some fundamental key factors in design i NEED to see now a days.OPEN WORLD no more instances or in case of this game fake open world/instances.I NEED to see an actual living world,an eco system and NO markers over npc heads or auto markers on maps.Players should mark their own maps.
I need to see the characters actually act like living characters,we need to eat,drink,we get tired etc etc.
In other words ,i need to see the ROLE PLAYING in the rpg and i need to see the MMO in the mmo world.
Vanguard was basically an EQ successor with some updated game systems and a better graphics engine... in theory. It basically was designed to succeed where EQ2 failed, as EQ2 went more in the direction of WoW due to the influx of casual players coming into the genre (it was a lot more hardcore on release, but SoE made major changes to cater to that playerbase). WoW basically redesigned expectations for MMORPG games when it was released (despite, IIRC, EQ2 releasing ahead of it).
As for the Open World factor, why should it matter? It raises system requirements both on the client and server side, and it comes with its own issues.
I have no issue with Instances. I'm honestly not even sure why people give a sh*t about that. Get an SSD, FFS. Zoning with a slow HDD is the only reason to care about the existence of instance...
Even if I am totally wrong about that and Pantheon comes off as a perfect "EQ with modern graphics", it won't really offer anything new to the genre; just the same old ideas that players abandoned 15 years ago.
To be honest I'd be thrilled to have a modern EQ. I mean, it's not my dream game but I'd be happy to have it. The one sticking point for me is the endgame. I won't even consider playing a game focused on the type of big, multi-group raids that Pantheon is going to be focused on.
If someone could make a game that feels and plays like EQ pre-endgame and stays like that forever, I'd probably become a crazy fan, trash talking anyone who complains about it. Too bad Pantheon isn't going to be that game even if they do someone manage to get a finished game out the door in my lifetime.
A game like that become monotonous and people will just quit. A carrot is needed, and people must have a barometer by which to judge character power - not just dungeons, either. Additionally, raids are an integral part of the social fabric in an MMORPG.
If you look at games like GW2, with very little dungeon content and pretty lackluster raid content, there just isn't the same level of social aplomb among the playerbase that you get with games like WoW or FFXIV. Guilds also become relatively disposable... Grind forever to do what? Plow dungeons that become trivial in a week or less?
What you're envisioning is a dream world that would bore even yourself. The only reason why you think otherwise, is becasue it doesn't quite exist. You're spewing hopes and dreams. That's all it is.
Without sufficient playerbase, there is no point even keeping the servers up. The developers have to look at reality, not someone's optimistic hopes for what they want a game to be. They have to cast a wide net, because the game actually has to recoup development costs and support itself (though VR is doing a great job at bamboozling donators for cash!).
It's more beneficial for them to write off players like you than it is to omit a raiding end-game.
IMO, Pantheon is at a point where they have to start altering the "vision" of the game. The game has been in development so long that someone who was mid-30s at the start of development is not in their 40s. They're literally losing potential players in that "EQ Niche" to increasing disinterest due to the long development time, so now they have to start catering to more of those other players to ensure that they hit their launch targets.
If this game only ends up with a few 100,000 players, this will not be a great look for the long term... Games tend to drop off after launch, when the hype dies down. I don't think this game (as much as we know) is a recipe for going nuclear in the MMORPG market.
Comments
That's something you keep forgetting. There are actually players who want this type of gameplay yet you continually mention the idea that "players have abandoned it."
It seems there are quite a few players who seek out this type of gameplay. So, as long as the Pantheon developers are realistic with their numbers, it shouldn't be a problem.
I don't see that they have to do something "new" (is there really anything new or is it just the same stuff reimagined?) as long as they are making the game they want to make.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Pretty much this. EA is a prime example. SWTOR actually isn't a bad mmorpg (well at least recently), but the heads of EA dont believe in mmorpgs. Hell, they barely came back around to the single player idea of games. And if they're using SWTOR as the basis as to why they wont make an actual mmorpg again, that's kind of dumb since not everyone likes star wars (crazy, I know). I kind of feel the same since SWTOR kind of feels like it can't really be more creative than it already has with classes and such. I mean even a Dragon Age mmorpg would have more potential since that game has always had a lot of class diversity and its their own IP so they can get as crazy as they want with it in regards to lore etc.
Vanguard was basically an EQ successor with some updated game systems and a better graphics engine... in theory. It basically was designed to succeed where EQ2 failed, as EQ2 went more in the direction of WoW due to the influx of casual players coming into the genre (it was a lot more hardcore on release, but SoE made major changes to cater to that playerbase). WoW basically redesigned expectations for MMORPG games when it was released (despite, IIRC, EQ2 releasing ahead of it).
As for the Open World factor, why should it matter? It raises system requirements both on the client and server side, and it comes with its own issues. I have no issue with Instances. I'm honestly not even sure why people give a sh*t about that. Get an SSD, FFS. Zoning with a slow HDD is the only reason to care about the existence of instance...
A game like that become monotonous and people will just quit. A carrot is needed, and people must have a barometer by which to judge character power - not just dungeons, either. Additionally, raids are an integral part of the social fabric in an MMORPG.
If you look at games like GW2, with very little dungeon content and pretty lackluster raid content, there just isn't the same level of social aplomb among the playerbase that you get with games like WoW or FFXIV. Guilds also become relatively disposable... Grind forever to do what? Plow dungeons that become trivial in a week or less?
What you're envisioning is a dream world that would bore even yourself. The only reason why you think otherwise, is becasue it doesn't quite exist. You're spewing hopes and dreams. That's all it is.
Without sufficient playerbase, there is no point even keeping the servers up. The developers have to look at reality, not someone's optimistic hopes for what they want a game to be. They have to cast a wide net, because the game actually has to recoup development costs and support itself (though VR is doing a great job at bamboozling donators for cash!).
It's more beneficial for them to write off players like you than it is to omit a raiding end-game.
IMO, Pantheon is at a point where they have to start altering the "vision" of the game. The game has been in development so long that someone who was mid-30s at the start of development is not in their 40s. They're literally losing potential players in that "EQ Niche" to increasing disinterest due to the long development time, so now they have to start catering to more of those other players to ensure that they hit their launch targets.
If this game only ends up with a few 100,000 players, this will not be a great look for the long term... Games tend to drop off after launch, when the hype dies down. I don't think this game (as much as we know) is a recipe for going nuclear in the MMORPG market.