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Cash Shops are just paying to have items duped, change my mind

NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,287
Remember when spawning in items would have been cheating and players would be banned? Not anymore now the companies sell you the cheats because they care more about money than the games they make.

Cash Shop are paying to have items duped for you. Change my mind.

"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

Gdemamiiixviiiix

Comments

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,306
    Hadn't thought of it that way... but... after consideration I agree.

    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,829
    It's not cheating because you're not the one who decides the rules.

    You may think that it's a stupid rule, and you may even say that it's a stupid rule. But if you try to claim that it's cheating without support from neither players nor organizers then you're just plain wrong because you're not in a position to set the rules for their game.
    SovrathtzervoNildenConstantineMerus
     
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,702
    edited April 30
    Well, unless you are playing FO76 items sold by the company normally have a unique identifier proving their authenticity so aren't really "dupes."

    What can be lacking is any evidence the item was earned in game vs the cash shop and in some cases (looking at you, ESO) cash shops not only contain items unobtainable by game play, they also can't be bought and have to be gambled for.

    The more I ponder this the angrier I become and when I do eventually walk away this will be a significant reason.

    I'll also try very hard in the future to avoid  playing any game with a similar gambling based mechanic.


    ScottzervoGdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,596
    edited April 30
    Kyleran said:
    Well, unless you are playing FO76 items sold by the company normally have a unique identifier proving their authenticity so aren't really "dupes."

    What can be lacking is any evidence the item was earned in game vs the cash shop and in some cases (looking at you, ESO) cash shops not only contain items unobtainable by game play, they also can't be bought and have to be gambled for.

    The more I ponder this the angrier I become and when I do eventually walk away this will be a significant reason.

    I'll also try very hard in the future to avoid  playing any game with a similar gambling based mechanic.



    The reason tactics like these continue to exist is because people continue to support them. Its just like paying to enter a beta, its the normal thing now. It doesn't matter what a company tries to do, if people support it, it will exist. Just like boosts in TBC Classic and the cash shop....I'm sorry 'rumored' since Blizzard hasn't confirmed anything yet or whatever.
    Kyleran
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,277
    edited April 30
    That would basically make boss loot chests, raids, dungeons, and crafting systems as dupe engines. Extrapolated for MMOs, players were just renting access to duping software on a monthly basis. DLC is just buying new duping engines. Some of the duping software required an up front fee (box cost). :lol:
    Sandmanjw
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,306
    Torval said:
    That would basically make boss loot chests, raids, dungeons, and crafting systems as dupe engines. Extrapolated for MMOs, players were just renting access to duping software on a monthly basis. DLC is just buying new duping engines. Some of the duping software required an up front fee (box cost). :lol:
    Not really.  All those require in-game actions.  Cash Shop just makes an item magically appear due to an out of game action.

    As I said, I hadn't really considered it in this light, but I think it has some merit as a comparison. 
    SensaiGdemamiNilden

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,667
    To dupe an item, means you have obtained said item, and made a copy of it, through some in-game mechanic.

    An Item shop, does not copy an original and sell you the created duplicate, they sell you an original item.

    No different than if more than one player earned an item, by doing whatever task it took to earn said item, IE: No different than if the item was looted from a chest. In the case of a item shop, the task is simply "pay" but the item is a original, none the less, as it is not a duplicate of another item, is a directly generated item.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,174
    Cash shops exist because they can. If i made an mmo, id have a cash shop too, but with cosmetics only and cosmetics only availabe through in game play too. 
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,068
    In order to duplicate an item, you have to already have one of it.  Cash shops let you buy items that you don't already have, and in some cases, wouldn't otherwise exist in the game at all.  So basically, it's not duping.  It's worse than that.
    NildenGdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,567
    edited May 1
    I love how they also have limited time sales and then they pull the faux-exclusive digital item until it's time to rotate to it again. Putting FOMO to work like they were selling real world limited supply items lol.

    So ride that fluorescent puce bear mount proudly, cowboy.. It will never (defined as next couple of years) be available in that shade of that color again!

    (Yes I'm talking about ESO.)
    KyleranGdemami
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • Big.Daddy.SamediBig.Daddy.Samedi Member UncommonPosts: 317
    Iselin said:
    I love how they also have limited time sales and then they pull the faux-exclusive digital item until it's time to rotate to it again. Putting FOMO to work like they were selling real world limited supply items lol.

    So ride that fluorescent puce bear mount proudly, cowboy.. It will never (defined as next couple of years) be available in that shade of that color again!

    (Yes I'm talking about ESO.)
    GW2 is another huge offender for this.
    UngoodKyleranGdemami

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,287
    Vrika said:
    It's not cheating because you're not the one who decides the rules.

    You may think that it's a stupid rule, and you may even say that it's a stupid rule. But if you try to claim that it's cheating without support from neither players nor organizers then you're just plain wrong because you're not in a position to set the rules for their game.
    Fair point.

    It's not cheating because they say it isn't.

    It still exactly resembles when you could enter in cheat codes to get items, only now you give the company your credit card to spawn them.
    Gdemami

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,287
    Quizzical said:
    In order to duplicate an item, you have to already have one of it.  Cash shops let you buy items that you don't already have, and in some cases, wouldn't otherwise exist in the game at all.  So basically, it's not duping.  It's worse than that.
    Well I was thinking you paid someone who duped it. Like instead of a third party you pay the company to give you a copy.

    However you are right and it is worse than duping for the reason you stated.
    Gdemami

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,689
    Iselin said:
    I love how they also have limited time sales and then they pull the faux-exclusive digital item until it's time to rotate to it again. Putting FOMO to work like they were selling real world limited supply items lol.

    So ride that fluorescent puce bear mount proudly, cowboy.. It will never (defined as next couple of years) be available in that shade of that color again!

    (Yes I'm talking about ESO.)
    Wish they had less glittery shiny "light stuff" in Elder Scrolls Online.
    KyleranIselin
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,287
    Ungood said:
    To dupe an item, means you have obtained said item, and made a copy of it, through some in-game mechanic.

    An Item shop, does not copy an original and sell you the created duplicate, they sell you an original item.

    No different than if more than one player earned an item, by doing whatever task it took to earn said item, IE: No different than if the item was looted from a chest. In the case of a item shop, the task is simply "pay" but the item is a original, none the less, as it is not a duplicate of another item, is a directly generated item.
    Actually it can work a couple of ways.

    The most popular being what MUDs have done with item databases. 

    There is no existing original item so to speak. It's code that generates it from an item database. So even the first item ever spawned in the game is a copy made from the code.

    Basicly the game creates an item instance.

    Here's a Unity Tutorial.

    https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/[email protected]/manual/Tutorials/02-PlayingWithRuntimeItem.html

    Here's how object files are handled in MUDs.

    https://www.circlemud.org/cdp/building/building-5.html

    Duping is just being able to make more of things. It could be gold or items.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duping_(video_games)

    However as was pointed out this is even worse than duping as they will sell you items that are not even in the game and you don't even need an "original". IE Cash shop exclusives.



    Gdemami

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,667
    Nilden said:
    Ungood said:
    To dupe an item, means you have obtained said item, and made a copy of it, through some in-game mechanic.

    An Item shop, does not copy an original and sell you the created duplicate, they sell you an original item.

    No different than if more than one player earned an item, by doing whatever task it took to earn said item, IE: No different than if the item was looted from a chest. In the case of a item shop, the task is simply "pay" but the item is a original, none the less, as it is not a duplicate of another item, is a directly generated item.
    Actually it can work a couple of ways.

    The most popular being what MUDs have done with item databases. 

    There is no existing original item so to speak. It's code that generates it from an item database. So even the first item ever spawned in the game is a copy made from the code.

    Basicly the game creates an item instance.

    Here's a Unity Tutorial.

    https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/[email protected]/manual/Tutorials/02-PlayingWithRuntimeItem.html

    Here's how object files are handled in MUDs.

    https://www.circlemud.org/cdp/building/building-5.html

    Duping is just being able to make more of things. It could be gold or items.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duping_(video_games)

    However as was pointed out this is even worse than duping as they will sell you items that are not even in the game and you don't even need an "original". IE Cash shop exclusives.



    By this logic, everything is a "Dupe" which invalidates the whole idea of outrage about something from a cash shop being a dupe, which makes this whole thing worse than click-bait.

    And regardless if you like it or not, everything in the cash shop is technically in the game as the cash shop is part of the game.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,287
    Ungood said:
    Nilden said:
    Ungood said:
    To dupe an item, means you have obtained said item, and made a copy of it, through some in-game mechanic.

    An Item shop, does not copy an original and sell you the created duplicate, they sell you an original item.

    No different than if more than one player earned an item, by doing whatever task it took to earn said item, IE: No different than if the item was looted from a chest. In the case of a item shop, the task is simply "pay" but the item is a original, none the less, as it is not a duplicate of another item, is a directly generated item.
    Actually it can work a couple of ways.

    The most popular being what MUDs have done with item databases. 

    There is no existing original item so to speak. It's code that generates it from an item database. So even the first item ever spawned in the game is a copy made from the code.

    Basicly the game creates an item instance.

    Here's a Unity Tutorial.

    https://docs.unity3d.com/Packages/[email protected]/manual/Tutorials/02-PlayingWithRuntimeItem.html

    Here's how object files are handled in MUDs.

    https://www.circlemud.org/cdp/building/building-5.html

    Duping is just being able to make more of things. It could be gold or items.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duping_(video_games)

    However as was pointed out this is even worse than duping as they will sell you items that are not even in the game and you don't even need an "original". IE Cash shop exclusives.



    By this logic, everything is a "Dupe" which invalidates the whole idea of outrage about something from a cash shop being a dupe, which makes this whole thing worse than click-bait.

    And regardless if you like it or not, everything in the cash shop is technically in the game as the cash shop is part of the game.
    No a dupe is make more of an item with a glitch or bug. Not that it matters since it's worse than a dupe. You don't need an original and they sell cash shop exclusives. It's worse.

    As for Cash shop being part of the game. You're right and it's why I avoid them like the plague. I'm not going to stop it. I want a game to not be about who throws the most money at it.

    To me it's like typing in the cheat codes to spawn items only now you give the company a credit card to spawn the items. Get the gold, etc

    Someone wants to be pro cash shop fill yur boots. It's not me.

    The novelty of the Game Genie lasted for about a week with me as a kid.

    Game Genie for NES Nintendo  Tested and Guaranteed

    And I paid for ALL the cheats with it. Not just a mount. LOL
    Gdemami

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,667
    Nilden said:
    Ungood said:
    To dupe an item, means you have obtained said item, and made a copy of it, through some in-game mechanic.

    An Item shop, does not copy an original and sell you the created duplicate, they sell you an original item.
    No a dupe is make more of an item with a glitch or bug. 
    Hummm.. seems we agree.

    Well good discussion.
    GdemamiKyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,934
    edited May 1
    it is called "integrity".Devs would sell out their integrity and the integrity of the game for money.

    The part that baffles me is how it flies over so many heads when studios say "only selling cosmetic".

    So pick ANY item your character is wearing in a game that you earned,well these devs are taking that away and saying "if you want it back,you have to pay us" lmao.
    This would be like shoe stores selling you shoes with no laces"give them time" this likely happens eventually.I mean we already get $2 in soles in our shoes and have to pay extra to actually have a mildly decent insole.


    delete5230

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

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