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Is specialization good or bad in MMORPG?
Vermillion_Raventhal
Member EpicPosts: 4,198
What I mean by specialization is that there is no clear best. Gear, abilities and skills all have specific best case use and specializations allow you to choose what you want to be best in.
For example maybe you're a crafter and you choose to specialize in fire enchantments. These may not be the best for all situations but when you need fire damage or fire resistance they are the best. Maybe your other specialization is heavy armor. You make legendary fire resistant fire armor but only epic flaming sword and master non-flaming weapons and armor as your initial specialization was blacksmithing. This could work for combat as well. For example blunt weapons suck vs. X but good vs. Z.
Do you think this level of detail would add the genre or just be something annoying long term?
For example maybe you're a crafter and you choose to specialize in fire enchantments. These may not be the best for all situations but when you need fire damage or fire resistance they are the best. Maybe your other specialization is heavy armor. You make legendary fire resistant fire armor but only epic flaming sword and master non-flaming weapons and armor as your initial specialization was blacksmithing. This could work for combat as well. For example blunt weapons suck vs. X but good vs. Z.
Do you think this level of detail would add the genre or just be something annoying long term?
Comments
From the silver swords in UO which had a bonus against undead, to several games including DAOC where one weapon type was superior against specific armor or resistances while being inferior to others.
I'll grant the idea of specialization has largely disappeared from more modern games but "back in the day" it was an integral mechanic which I definitely enjoyed.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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much better to put slots in armor and let players customize it instead.
i have no problem with strengths and weaknesses to certain weapon and armor types. Thats pretty straight forward.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You need people that have roles to play and everyonr being able to solo is not a role.
I also personally believe that an MMO should have roles where the classes within a role are somewhat balanced but the roles are not even close to balanced.
More specialization the better IMO.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Imho stuff like crit or attack damage should always be lower than specialized stats which are only good in certain situations.
On the other side people hat this because they feel forced to carry different sets then.
Works in PvP though
1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO
Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon
For example, if I were to design an MMO. I'd have a few classes that can't be played solo such as:
- A wizard: Needs reagents for spells, each spell takes 15-60 seconds to cast. Can only wear cloth and have both hands free. DPS is 10x that of the sorcerer class. Can't solo.
- Sorcerer: Instant spells with cooldown more of a sustained DPS.
- Bard: Has some attack but mainly there to buff with auras, can't solo at all.
- Soulstealer - can take over the soul of one enemy and then you fight as that enemy. Slow leveling.
I'd so stuff like that to reward good team work with having very specialized classes. Like no one would want to play a wizard, but if you level it high enough, you'll be sought after.
A game needs community and one way to build community is to build interdependence. But of course, that leaves less people to play. I'm a mainly solo player, so i wouldn't even be the audience for my own game. kek.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I'd rather leave such things as better fire defense on armor to magical enhancements that would require a Mage (of some sort?) to add.
For the crafter, I'd rather see specializing in another form, where the blacksmith can specialize (again, not overpowering) in either of 3 aspects.
- Better armor rating
- Better durability
- Lighter weight
Or more commonly as a combination of the 3 and slightly lesser effect of each.
Same for weapons.
And the same sort of thing for some other crafting items.
I think it's an additional part of Character development to gather specialized gear for special MOBs.
But I also don't want that in a game where you can carry unreasonable amounts of weight and switch gear like armor out in the middle of fighting. A simple 1 second animation where you can't do anything else to take off each piece of armor, and another second to put a new piece on, with the loss of that armor protection during that time.
Once upon a time....
So for modern games I'm pretty sure no one's gonna take the time to make a extensive spec system. It's like weather systems, and day night I really enjoy them, most people could care less swtor is a good example of that.
Ryzom being the least popular mmo ever has specs so serious you get to make your own abilities, with custom per player gear. That game has maybe 100 people. Even if you got rid of it's bad tutorial, added more modern features, stream lined some of it. It would still be a not popular game.
From what I see the majority of players do not like complex systems. They like streamlined easy systems where you can't really fail. Even games like Poe the majority just follow a guide some one else made, which from a developer point of view would just be easier to not waste time on a million builds when people pick 10. Ulitma online same thing, daoc same thing, Diablo 2, old swg, and dungeons and dragons online. I like to just follow what ever I feel like, and end up with garbage characters it's fine to me, I'm rare in that. So just imagine all the wasted time some one put into coding all that stuff when 95 percent just cookie cut.
It gives me a sense of my character is my own. When I played wow for a month, just felt like I was just another brick in the wall. So I'm under no delusion that some big MMORPG company is gonna make a game other than stream lined no specs and no ability to fail.
The only games I've seen that forced grouping kinda works are mobas, but even so they just end up being toxic than every one wants to ban every one for talking. Mobas have those ridged roles, and you always find some one who won't play the right role. Mmorpgs are even worse with that like EverQuest where it takes forever to get to max level so your stuck at that role forever, which no one ever does and runs bots and multi characters and the majority play by them selves anyways.
I don't think there is a target audience for what your talking about. There's people who say they want that kind of thing, but really don't. Just like there's a bunch that say they want unlimited character builds than just copy other people. Just like complex crafting, which are so unpopular the 3 games that have it ryzom, ulitma online, and swg are super underpopulated compared to say wow, swtor, or eso. I'm sure some think eso has a complex crafting system, I thought it was super easy and a waste of time. Swg emu has forced grouping, and none of the emulators make u have one character or one online. Swg has way less forced grouping and is by far more popular. So if we are talking making money there is no target audience for what you suggest.
I prefer to use the term ROLE,each player within a group has a role to play.
I have a very good idea of how i like to see the mmorpg's designed within the combat structure and hoped to one day see it.Sadly developers are just pure lazy and wanting to cut lots of corners to make it cheaper and easier for them to design the game.
FFXi allowed you to change your character role and to mix n match to further tweak it in a way you felt was needed.
The way the bad game designs do it,you hit some level then they ask you to choose a specialization,i absolutely laugh at that design,it is pathetic and LAZY.
FFXi came the closest to "getting there" but was still a ways off but since then devs are just dumbing the genre down to garbage gameplay +some end game nonsense.
It bothers me that is appears gamers are more worried about their loot,their ranking or their gear score than how good a game is designed.
IDK WHY the mindset,do gamers just accept what they are given?Well they SHOULD be smart enough to realize expansions wil be incoming so if you don't speak up you will keep getting the same trash designs >>aka Wow and it's clones.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
if the system is too complex it wont be used but if players are eased into a system you have much better chances of adoption.
the player portrait/equipment screen is the most used and easily identifiable system in these games. Everyone knows how to put on their armor. There no points to alot or complex procedures. They know when they get something better ( even with the crayon method above, which is sadly true) they can switch them out.
i think that everything in the game can work exactly like that. It can work for your character, your equipment and your skills and spells. It also works for your control scheme. You have to put something in the quickslot.
Specialization is always a tricky subject because it often goes from having lots of options to essentially being forced down to one way because its simply superior. It leads to min/max which most often skews power in ways developers couldn't anticipate.
The reason specialization works so fine in diablo type games is because you want to get players to replay the game with other outputs so without lots of build options replayability goes away. Its a power-gamers dream to experiment with builds.
In mmorpg you mostly play one character and if that character gets restricted out of certain parts of the game its problematic.
You just came from reading "that other" thread, didn't you? LOL
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I agree, but I think the OP was talking more about "gear specialization" over "character specialization", though I may have missed the mark
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
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I am more entertained that the systems in the game I am playing are desired by the more modern MMO player, and I am legit wondering why these systems went away in the first place.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon