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Elder Scrolls Online Previews Combat Changes and Champion System Improvements | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 7,110

imageElder Scrolls Online Previews Combat Changes and Champion System Improvements | MMORPG.com

In a forum post by Elder Scrolls Online PVP and Combat Lead Brian Wheeler, concerns over the "proc set meta" were addressed along with information on improvements to the newly revamped Champion System. Both changes are planned to arrive in Update 30, which is planned for June 8th.

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Comments

  • AbimorAbimor Member UncommonPosts: 670
    Nothing about the changes to the crown boxes as they are going to make you be able to do quests for them.
  • ashiru_1978ashiru_1978 Member UncommonPosts: 139
    Doesn't sound like anything significant in terms of changes to the combat. Certainly nowhere near enough to warrant my return to the game.
    RungarDrius75chilltime99AlomarTheocritusvelimirius
  • nate1980nate1980 Member UncommonPosts: 1,954
    When I read the title, I was excited and expecting to read some positive changes to the combat system. However, I only read about changes to gear, not combat. That's a bummer, because the combat system is the reason I don't play the game.
    RungarGobstopper3DDrius75RadooGreatswordAlomarTheocritusvelimirius
  • drumchannelldrumchannell Member UncommonPosts: 167
    Nothing about combat changes. Boo!
    Drius75bgzgamer
  • GreatswordGreatsword Member UncommonPosts: 218
    Borderline clickbait title.
    My heart skipped a beat, after all ESO with a good (or at least average) combat system would be the greatest thing in the MMO market.

    Alas, it looks like some minor balancing tweaks while the worst AAA MMO combat system at its core remains entirely untouched.

    ESO's combat and its ugly animations are the reasons I can't play this game.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,248
    The core combat design is never going to change. People that keep expecting such are not being realistic at all. In what world is that even realistic? There are a lot of people who like the combat or at least don't mind it. Why would ZoS change that? These are combat changes, not a total system redesign which will never happen.

    I hope the passive cost reduction is significant because I'm at CP167 and have barely scratched actives on my main tree.

    My sorc is most interested in the blue tree due to their focus on combat and healing effectiveness (spell power, penetration, regen). The passives are about as good as the actives so it isn't a total wash.

    The green tree has a few interesting traits for crafting and the red tree I'm putting most of my points in the 3 standalone actives.

    Hopefully they'll offer a CP reset after this update.
    AlomarSovrathYashaXklash2def
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 457
    Torval said:
    The core combat design is never going to change. People that keep expecting such are not being realistic at all. In what world is that even realistic? There are a lot of people who like the combat or at least don't mind it. Why would ZoS change that? These are combat changes, not a total system redesign which will never happen.

    I hope the passive cost reduction is significant because I'm at CP167 and have barely scratched actives on my main tree.

    My sorc is most interested in the blue tree due to their focus on combat and healing effectiveness (spell power, penetration, regen). The passives are about as good as the actives so it isn't a total wash.

    The green tree has a few interesting traits for crafting and the red tree I'm putting most of my points in the 3 standalone actives.

    Hopefully they'll offer a CP reset after this update.
    Zos tried to change it once but , like the rest of us, got shouted down on the boards. 
    .33 of a second to midnight
  • bgzgamerbgzgamer Member UncommonPosts: 97
    oh yeah? How about your combat is atrocious and spammy and needs a complete revamp. Youre fucking blind, Brian Wheeler, if you dont know this otherwise. You call combat in ESO combat at all? Nothing has a cooldown, you spam the same spell until something dies.. Basically plays like a mobile game. Its laughable and a disgrace.
    BruceYeeYashaXIselin
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,248
    bgzgamer said:
    oh yeah? How about your combat is atrocious and spammy and needs a complete revamp. Youre fucking blind, Brian Wheeler, if you dont know this otherwise. You call combat in ESO combat at all? Nothing has a cooldown, you spam the same spell until something dies.. Basically plays like a mobile game. Its laughable and a disgrace.
    That will certainly make them change it. You keep waiting.... and ranting.
    YashaXIselin
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,520
    Torval said:


    Hopefully they'll offer a CP reset after this update.
    Pretty well guaranteed.

    The required stage reduction from 3 or 4 to max 2 is a big enough change to trigger a free respec... for you peasants with little gold :)
    Torval
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,249
    edited April 19

    Torval said:


    bgzgamer said:

    oh yeah? How about your combat is atrocious and spammy and needs a complete revamp. Youre fucking blind, Brian Wheeler, if you dont know this otherwise. You call combat in ESO combat at all? Nothing has a cooldown, you spam the same spell until something dies.. Basically plays like a mobile game. Its laughable and a disgrace.


    That will certainly make them change it. You keep waiting.... and ranting.



    He's not wrong though. ESO skills and CP system is really just the illusion of choice and there are mobile games with even more in depth systems.

    ESO is basically this... you have these options...

    2+2+5+1

    or

    3+3+3+1

    but both equal 10

    and unless you get super jacked up on red bull or NoDoz before your gaming session so you can spam the fk outta your mouse + keyboard not looking away from your screen for 1 second so you can top that dps meter/chart you won't be top dawg cause that's the way they designed the game.

    No matter what you do or how great you may think you are you're still stuck in an extremely cramped box designed for you with little to no flexibility. The recent CP system rework was a straight rip from Blizzard's expansion playbook of taking what they already have rearranging it + add a couple 0.25 + 0.50 differences to the numbers to make it seem like something new.

    In the end this is what our place in ESO looks like before any kind of rework

    |____|

    and this is what it looks like after

    |____|

    It's still the same confined space they just jumbled it around a bit and told everyone it's something new. The recent CP rework just broke down what was already there before and makes you spend more CP so it looks/feels like like something new because you have more detailed options but in the end it's just rearranged stuff.
    bgzgamerTheocritusBabuinix
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,520
    Torval said:
    bgzgamer said:
    oh yeah? How about your combat is atrocious and spammy and needs a complete revamp. Youre fucking blind, Brian Wheeler, if you dont know this otherwise. You call combat in ESO combat at all? Nothing has a cooldown, you spam the same spell until something dies.. Basically plays like a mobile game. Its laughable and a disgrace.
    That will certainly make them change it. You keep waiting.... and ranting.
    The funniest part was whining about no cool downs. I can't stop laughing about preferring little timers to a resource based system... in an action combat game :smile:
    Torval
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,248
    BruceYee said:

    Torval said:


    bgzgamer said:

    oh yeah? How about your combat is atrocious and spammy and needs a complete revamp. Youre fucking blind, Brian Wheeler, if you dont know this otherwise. You call combat in ESO combat at all? Nothing has a cooldown, you spam the same spell until something dies.. Basically plays like a mobile game. Its laughable and a disgrace.


    That will certainly make them change it. You keep waiting.... and ranting.



    He's not wrong though. ESO skills and CP system is really just the illusion of choice and there are mobile games with even more in depth systems.

    ESO is basically this... you have these options...

    2+2+5+1

    or

    3+3+3+1

    but both equal 10

    and unless you get super jacked up on red bull or NoDoz before your gaming session so you can spam the fk outta your mouse + keyboard not looking away from your screen for 1 second so you can top that dps meter/chart you won't be top dawg cause that's the way they designed the game.

    No matter what you do or how great you may think you are you're still stuck in an extremely cramped box designed for you with little to no flexibility. The recent CP system rework was a straight rip from Blizzard's expansion playbook of taking what they already have rearranging it + add a couple 0.25 + 0.50 differences to the numbers to make it seem like something new.

    In the end this is what our place in ESO looks like before any kind of rework

    |____|

    and this is what it looks like after

    |____|

    It's still the same confined space they just jumbled it around a bit and told everyone it's something new. The recent CP rework just broke down what was already there before and makes you spend more CP so it looks/feels like like something new because you have more detailed options but in the end it's just rearranged stuff.

    I never said he was right or wrong. There isn't a right or wrong here. There is an "I like or don't" moment that is completely subjective.

    Either way they're still not going to change and rework the entire combat system.
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,859
    bgzgamer said:
    oh yeah? How about your combat is atrocious and spammy and needs a complete revamp. Youre fucking blind, Brian Wheeler, if you dont know this otherwise. You call combat in ESO combat at all? Nothing has a cooldown, you spam the same spell until something dies.. Basically plays like a mobile game. Its laughable and a disgrace.
    It is as if some people on this board are playing a different game than I am. In my experience ESO has one of the best combat systems in any mmo I have played, and I have played quite a few now.

    The only real issue I have with it is lag, input lag, and the way proc sets unbalance the game. Here is a video of one of my favorite eso streamers that showcases both how amazing the combat is and the issues with lag. Notice that he is not just spamming one ability until something dies.

    Movement, speed, timing, positioning, maintaining buffs, coordinating burst, chaining abilities, monitoring resources ... No other mmo I have played gives me such a feeling of freedom and control over my character during combat.


    TorvalSensaibgzgamerIselin
    ....
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 1,044
    The CP tree change made it so i couldn't pick up the CPs that reduce gathering time by half, which makes the game feel a lot more awful to play when you have to go out in the world and pick flowers, get metals, etc.

    I basically stopped even bothering with the crafting stuff I was leveling up/working on.

    I think I might go back to WoW and just play BGs and raid there, honestly. The community there is a bit more social. I don't like having to run Discord and basically two box applications just to socialize in an MMORPG.
  • bgzgamerbgzgamer Member UncommonPosts: 97

    BruceYee said:



    Torval said:




    bgzgamer said:


    oh yeah? How about your combat is atrocious and spammy and needs a complete revamp. Youre fucking blind, Brian Wheeler, if you dont know this otherwise. You call combat in ESO combat at all? Nothing has a cooldown, you spam the same spell until something dies.. Basically plays like a mobile game. Its laughable and a disgrace.




    That will certainly make them change it. You keep waiting.... and ranting.






    He's not wrong though. ESO skills and CP system is really just the illusion of choice and there are mobile games with even more in depth systems.



    ESO is basically this... you have these options...



    2+2+5+1



    or



    3+3+3+1



    but both equal 10



    and unless you get super jacked up on red bull or NoDoz before your gaming session so you can spam the fk outta your mouse + keyboard not looking away from your screen for 1 second so you can top that dps meter/chart you won't be top dawg cause that's the way they designed the game.



    No matter what you do or how great you may think you are you're still stuck in an extremely cramped box designed for you with little to no flexibility. The recent CP system rework was a straight rip from Blizzard's expansion playbook of taking what they already have rearranging it + add a couple 0.25 + 0.50 differences to the numbers to make it seem like something new.



    In the end this is what our place in ESO looks like before any kind of rework



    |____|



    and this is what it looks like after



    |____|



    It's still the same confined space they just jumbled it around a bit and told everyone it's something new. The recent CP rework just broke down what was already there before and makes you spend more CP so it looks/feels like like something new because you have more detailed options but in the end it's just rearranged stuff.





    Honestly couldnt really say it better myself. Spam an ability and get the same end result because it is brainless. I don't know what game others are playing. The "resource pool vs timers" is so short-sighted, its not even funny. So, you'd rather cast the same spell 10 times from the same resource for the same effect if you casted a different ability 10x? There is zero depth to ESO's combat. They just put an illusion of choice on top of a pile of shit and called it such.

    Spamming abilities has become the norm in most of todays mmorpg's and the market is so dry that some now think its the only way to create a "combat system".
    Iselin
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,520
    bgzgamer said:

    BruceYee said:



    Torval said:




    bgzgamer said:


    oh yeah? How about your combat is atrocious and spammy and needs a complete revamp. Youre fucking blind, Brian Wheeler, if you dont know this otherwise. You call combat in ESO combat at all? Nothing has a cooldown, you spam the same spell until something dies.. Basically plays like a mobile game. Its laughable and a disgrace.




    That will certainly make them change it. You keep waiting.... and ranting.






    He's not wrong though. ESO skills and CP system is really just the illusion of choice and there are mobile games with even more in depth systems.



    ESO is basically this... you have these options...



    2+2+5+1



    or



    3+3+3+1



    but both equal 10



    and unless you get super jacked up on red bull or NoDoz before your gaming session so you can spam the fk outta your mouse + keyboard not looking away from your screen for 1 second so you can top that dps meter/chart you won't be top dawg cause that's the way they designed the game.



    No matter what you do or how great you may think you are you're still stuck in an extremely cramped box designed for you with little to no flexibility. The recent CP system rework was a straight rip from Blizzard's expansion playbook of taking what they already have rearranging it + add a couple 0.25 + 0.50 differences to the numbers to make it seem like something new.



    In the end this is what our place in ESO looks like before any kind of rework



    |____|



    and this is what it looks like after



    |____|



    It's still the same confined space they just jumbled it around a bit and told everyone it's something new. The recent CP rework just broke down what was already there before and makes you spend more CP so it looks/feels like like something new because you have more detailed options but in the end it's just rearranged stuff.





    Honestly couldnt really say it better myself. Spam an ability and get the same end result because it is brainless. I don't know what game others are playing. The "resource pool vs timers" is so short-sighted, its not even funny. So, you'd rather cast the same spell 10 times from the same resource for the same effect if you casted a different ability 10x? There is zero depth to ESO's combat. They just put an illusion of choice on top of a pile of shit and called it such.

    Spamming abilities has become the norm in most of todays mmorpg's and the market is so dry that some now think its the only way to create a "combat system".
    Spamming abilities is the way really bad or brand new players play.

    The rest of us do rotations of 10 skills + ultimates.
    TorvalYashaX
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • AbimorAbimor Member UncommonPosts: 670
    I see all these people complaining about the combat and I just do not understand how having 30 skills with cooldowns and and bloat are any better I played lotro for 8 years and every time an expansion came out new skills would be added until it was impossible to not have like 4 bars of skills. I enjoy Eso combat I use on trash mobs 5 skills when I am out soloing and it is kind of spammy where it changes is world bosses or group dungeons where I heal then I use two weapons and 10 skills and its pretty complex.
     
    They did try and change the combat and even had it up on the pts server but man they got skewered I thought the new system they were proposing  was pretty terrible. If they wanted to make changes that were improvements I would support that if they tested it for awhile. 

    @Darksworm the champion crafting changes really hurt me also I have a lot of crafters Now I do get a lot of mats from breaking down items but the speed on crafting nodes felt like a great reward. I am at cp 700 I should focus on earning cp points but I like rolling alts and experimenting.   
    YashaXViper482
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,271
    YashaX said:
    bgzgamer said:
    oh yeah? How about your combat is atrocious and spammy and needs a complete revamp. Youre fucking blind, Brian Wheeler, if you dont know this otherwise. You call combat in ESO combat at all? Nothing has a cooldown, you spam the same spell until something dies.. Basically plays like a mobile game. Its laughable and a disgrace.
    It is as if some people on this board are playing a different game than I am. In my experience ESO has one of the best combat systems in any mmo I have played, and I have played quite a few now.

    The only real issue I have with it is lag, input lag, and the way proc sets unbalance the game. Here is a video of one of my favorite eso streamers that showcases both how amazing the combat is and the issues with lag. Notice that he is not just spamming one ability until something dies.

    Movement, speed, timing, positioning, maintaining buffs, coordinating burst, chaining abilities, monitoring resources ... No other mmo I have played gives me such a feeling of freedom and control over my character during combat.



    It is an absolute love or hate system for sure....I think the problem is that many of us came from Skyrim and were expecting Skyrim type of combat....ESO is pretty basic MMO combat which is nothing new or special.....Once we didn't get "Skyrim Online" many of us moved on but many have stayed and enjoy the game, so to each their own.
    YashaX
  • AbimorAbimor Member UncommonPosts: 670
    YashaX said:
    bgzgamer said:
    oh yeah? How about your combat is atrocious and spammy and needs a complete revamp. Youre fucking blind, Brian Wheeler, if you dont know this otherwise. You call combat in ESO combat at all? Nothing has a cooldown, you spam the same spell until something dies.. Basically plays like a mobile game. Its laughable and a disgrace.
    It is as if some people on this board are playing a different game than I am. In my experience ESO has one of the best combat systems in any mmo I have played, and I have played quite a few now.

    The only real issue I have with it is lag, input lag, and the way proc sets unbalance the game. Here is a video of one of my favorite eso streamers that showcases both how amazing the combat is and the issues with lag. Notice that he is not just spamming one ability until something dies.

    Movement, speed, timing, positioning, maintaining buffs, coordinating burst, chaining abilities, monitoring resources ... No other mmo I have played gives me such a feeling of freedom and control over my character during combat.



    It is an absolute love or hate system for sure....I think the problem is that many of us came from Skyrim and were expecting Skyrim type of combat....ESO is pretty basic MMO combat which is nothing new or special.....Once we didn't get "Skyrim Online" many of us moved on but many have stayed and enjoy the game, so to each their own.
    I hated the game when it came out I was so disappointed it was nothing like an elderscrolls game. However when they went the one tamriel route and basically made it an open world I have enjoyed it pretty much since although the jewelry grind is/was frustrating for me it seemed like a terrible time/ materials sink and I really disliked the vampire changes with the last expansion.  I agree with you to each their own that is the one thing I do not get about this website why does every game have to appeal to everyone why cant I say I really love open world pvp and not think it makes some one a care bear because they don't?
    YashaX
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,520
    edited April 20
    Abimor said:
    ...although the jewelry grind is/was frustrating for me it seemed like a terrible time/ materials sink...
    I detested their jewelry crafting implementation also. They made it extra grindy with their dust nonsense for no good reason.

    (Edit: for those who don't know what the extra grind is we're talking about. With jewelry mats, when you mine for it or deconstruct it to get mats you get 1/10th of the mats that all other gear crafting gives you. That applies to both the base mats to craft an item as well as the upgrade mats you need to make it green, blue, purple, etc.)

    It's crafting gear just like crafting any other gear and jewelry is not the most powerful slot that deserves special treatment with extra grind.

    I and many others were very vocal on both the PTS and live forums calling out the extra grind but they never once responded during testing nor after.

    It more than anything else pissed me off enough that I have never played for more than a month or two straight since. Dumb design and they were arrogant about it.
    TorvalYashaX
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,859
    YashaX said:
    bgzgamer said:
    oh yeah? How about your combat is atrocious and spammy and needs a complete revamp. Youre fucking blind, Brian Wheeler, if you dont know this otherwise. You call combat in ESO combat at all? Nothing has a cooldown, you spam the same spell until something dies.. Basically plays like a mobile game. Its laughable and a disgrace.
    It is as if some people on this board are playing a different game than I am. In my experience ESO has one of the best combat systems in any mmo I have played, and I have played quite a few now.

    The only real issue I have with it is lag, input lag, and the way proc sets unbalance the game. Here is a video of one of my favorite eso streamers that showcases both how amazing the combat is and the issues with lag. Notice that he is not just spamming one ability until something dies.

    Movement, speed, timing, positioning, maintaining buffs, coordinating burst, chaining abilities, monitoring resources ... No other mmo I have played gives me such a feeling of freedom and control over my character during combat.



    It is an absolute love or hate system for sure....I think the problem is that many of us came from Skyrim and were expecting Skyrim type of combat....ESO is pretty basic MMO combat which is nothing new or special.....Once we didn't get "Skyrim Online" many of us moved on but many have stayed and enjoy the game, so to each their own.

    Oh yeah, the combat (and other aspects of the game) is very different to Skyrim for sure. Although I don't think you are giving it the justice it deserves by saying the combat is "pretty basic MMO combat which is nothing new or special." It is a clear break from other games in the genre, and borrows on many of the concepts from the ES single player games. 

    Having said all that, I only play the game for the RvR and battlegrounds, I find Skyrim to be much more enjoyable as a pve experience- in fact I have yet to play an mmo where I enjoy the pve, and yet I really, really like single player rpgs.

    Torval
    ....
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,004
    edited April 20
    I don't know anyone who plays ESO for the combat, I thought it was decent enough, did the job and no more. If they want to bring new players in that's what they need to focus on. Huge sweeping changes are not necessary but then what we see here is minimal tweaking.

    The animation cancellations is the issue most mentioned, I see them as being a relic from a bygone age. A bit like bunny hoping in a FPS, we should be beyond that. However having not played for so long there may be other serious issues about the combat as well.

    I think the teams thinking is that ESO was never originally chosen for its combat so play to the strengths. I agree with that idea up to a point, but six years in they need to realise the combat is now seen as a liability, where before it was just not highly rated.
    RungarViper482YashaXbgzgamer
  • RungarRungar Member RarePosts: 457
    I think with a few tweaks it (eso combat) could of easily been the best combat system, which is why I find it disappointing. 

    buffs are way too short= click filler
    weaving=exploitable click filler
    too many active skills at one time=lag click filler

    because of this system ( and balancing based on it) they had to massively buff hp pools of monsters in dungeons and employ one shots everywhere thus gating vet content and making certain roles obsolete like healer and roles like tank even more unpopular than they already were. 

    Valheim has a better combat system and it literally is just an ultra simplified version of action combat that you see in eso. 
    ScotViper482
    .33 of a second to midnight
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 3,351
    edited April 20

    Torval said:

    The core combat design is never going to change. People that keep expecting such are not being realistic at all. In what world is that even realistic? There are a lot of people who like the combat or at least don't mind it. Why would ZoS change that? These are combat changes, not a total system redesign which will never happen.

    I hope the passive cost reduction is significant because I'm at CP167 and have barely scratched actives on my main tree.

    My sorc is most interested in the blue tree due to their focus on combat and healing effectiveness (spell power, penetration, regen). The passives are about as good as the actives so it isn't a total wash.

    The green tree has a few interesting traits for crafting and the red tree I'm putting most of my points in the 3 standalone actives.

    Hopefully they'll offer a CP reset after this update.



    I would bet my left nut there are more people not playing this game because of the combat than there are playing the game because of the combat. Most people play in spite of the combat. I have heard very few people say they actually like it. There is a vocal minority of hardcore players who want to keep this stupid-ass animation canceling/weaving bullshit because it allows their twitchy asses to stay on top of the dps food chain. It adds a "skill" aspect to the game, as ridiculous as that skill is.
    Scotbgzgamer
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
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