Because people abuse something doesn't mean it's inherently evil. I think loot boxes suck just because of the PTW aspect. Gambling has nothing to do with it. Can't hand-hold every adult because a few don't have self-control. Grow up
Try again.
MMORPG just ran an article on this. 40% of kids that play videogames get involved in these lootboxes.
Get them away from kids and list the odds. Then let adults do what they want. But to use silliness like "grow up" really reflects an ignorance of reality.
And then you realize Video Game Addiction is a thing and the government should ban gaming itself....
Thats a slippery slope if I ever saw one.
They are not even talking about banning lootboxes...
Just making sure it doesn't end harming children.
You want to gamble, sure, go gamble - but there is a time and a place for that.
But you need to protect the kids from Video Game Addiction...so no one under 18 should be playing in the US.
Na you just need to tax gambling styled monetization out of existence. Easy come, easy go. I always say
We all need to rise up and ban gaming...it is evil and pollutes the mind.
Such extremes, my European ancestors dabbled a lot with that type of thinking.
No better way into a greedy one’s heart than in their wallet.
Because people abuse something doesn't mean it's inherently evil. I think loot boxes suck just because of the PTW aspect. Gambling has nothing to do with it. Can't hand-hold every adult because a few don't have self-control. Grow up
Try again.
MMORPG just ran an article on this. 40% of kids that play videogames get involved in these lootboxes.
Get them away from kids and list the odds. Then let adults do what they want. But to use silliness like "grow up" really reflects an ignorance of reality.
And then you realize Video Game Addiction is a thing and the government should ban gaming itself....
Thats a slippery slope if I ever saw one.
They are not even talking about banning lootboxes...
Just making sure it doesn't end harming children.
You want to gamble, sure, go gamble - but there is a time and a place for that.
But you need to protect the kids from Video Game Addiction...so no one under 18 should be playing in the US.
Na you just need to tax gambling styled monetization out of existence. Easy come, easy go. I always say
We all need to rise up and ban gaming...it is evil and pollutes the mind.
Such extremes, my European ancestors dabbled a lot with that type of thinking.
No better way into a greedy one’s heart than in their wallet.
Fine fine....we tax those under 18 that play games.
Because people abuse something doesn't mean it's inherently evil. I think loot boxes suck just because of the PTW aspect. Gambling has nothing to do with it. Can't hand-hold every adult because a few don't have self-control. Grow up
Try again.
MMORPG just ran an article on this. 40% of kids that play videogames get involved in these lootboxes.
Get them away from kids and list the odds. Then let adults do what they want. But to use silliness like "grow up" really reflects an ignorance of reality.
And then you realize Video Game Addiction is a thing and the government should ban gaming itself....
Thats a slippery slope if I ever saw one.
They are not even talking about banning lootboxes...
Just making sure it doesn't end harming children.
You want to gamble, sure, go gamble - but there is a time and a place for that.
But you need to protect the kids from Video Game Addiction...so no one under 18 should be playing in the US.
Na you just need to tax gambling styled monetization out of existence. Easy come, easy go. I always say
We all need to rise up and ban gaming...it is evil and pollutes the mind.
Such extremes, my European ancestors dabbled a lot with that type of thinking.
No better way into a greedy one’s heart than in their wallet.
Fine fine....we tax those under 18 that play games.
I think that making a kid work a couple hours cutting the grass/washing cars etc. ect. to earn the money to buy a loot box and then watching that hard earned money disappear in an instant on something that the kid wanted but didn't get, would go a long way into teaching those children how to be smarter consumers.
I don't really care how we get there, I just want paid-for-lootboxes out of my games.
They were clearly gambling since day 1....just not the sort of gambling that requires regulation. But definately, always, gambling.
If the government needs to prove that loot boxes are indeed the type of gambling that requires regulation before they do something about it, fine. If they grow some balls and just sort this shit out anyway, great. If they need to invent some new criteria, or just acquire new research showing that, yes, lootboxes are dangerous and exploitative, before they do something, then do it.
I kind of have a mixed reaction to loot boxes. On one hand it is gambling, i know, i have a huge addictive personality and i know all it takes for me is to buy one and im down the rabbit hole. Hence, i dont buy lootboxes. I can fall for that stuff all day. It is also why i dont gamble really because i will have a problem.
But then again, i get the whole stop policing everything as at some point people need to be responsible for their actions.
The compromise is to have them but put clearly next to it the odds of what you can get.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The compromise is to have them but put clearly next to it the odds of what you can get.
Agree, but also keep it away from minors.
How exactly? National ID system? Photographs of driver's licenses? Notarized even?
I'm all for the idea in theory, but still feel it's up to parents to manage.
Some nations already have working national electronic ID system, for example Estonia has really good one.
Where I'm from (Finland), it's arranged so that some actors like banks can provide electronic ID verification: I have to log in same way I'd log into my online bank, and the bank verifies my ID to the webpage I'm using.
Some kind of electronic ID is coming to the rest of the world too. It's only a matter of time.
The compromise is to have them but put clearly next to it the odds of what you can get.
Agree, but also keep it away from minors.
How exactly? National ID system? Photographs of driver's licenses? Notarized even?
I'm all for the idea in theory, but still feel it's up to parents to manage.
Some nations already have working national electronic ID system, for example Estonia has really good one.
Where I'm from (Finland), it's arranged so that some actors like banks can provide electronic ID verification: I have to log in same way I'd log into my online bank, and the bank verifies my ID to the webpage I'm using.
Some kind of electronic ID is coming to the rest of the world too. It's only a matter of time.
Look at how quickly the idea of Covid passports went from "Not sure if that's a good idea or not" to "if other countries do it we have to follow suit" in the UK. The tipping point will be once other countries expect us to have an electronic ID when we visit, then everyone will fall into line. This is far easier to sell when it is "the fault of other countries."
Vice is never really the problem only a symptom. The real problem is lack of spiritual fortitude and discipline.
Parents teach their children nothing of the world because they know nothing of the world. They only know what the eye tells them and thats usually misdirection and dark paths.
You dont have to believe in Christianity to see that hell is coming now that its power is waning.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
.. can someone show me the roadmap on how we went from lootboxes to Covid19 vaccine passports?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The compromise is to have them but put clearly next to it the odds of what you can get.
Agree, but also keep it away from minors.
How exactly? National ID system? Photographs of driver's licenses? Notarized even?
I'm all for the idea in theory, but still feel it's up to parents to manage.
How do we keep alcohol away from kids? Or gambling? No system will be perfect, but anything would be better than what we have today which is literally allowing them to be marketed at kids.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The compromise is to have them but put clearly next to it the odds of what you can get.
Agree, but also keep it away from minors.
How exactly? National ID system? Photographs of driver's licenses? Notarized even?
I'm all for the idea in theory, but still feel it's up to parents to manage.
How do we keep alcohol away from kids? Or gambling? No system will be perfect, but anything would be better than what we have today which is literally allowing them to be marketed at kids.
Generally speaking both gambling and alchohol require an in store purchase with ID required to purchase or enter.
Online presents an entirely different set of challenges than brick and mortar sales.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The compromise is to have them but put clearly next to it the odds of what you can get.
Agree, but also keep it away from minors.
How exactly? National ID system? Photographs of driver's licenses? Notarized even?
I'm all for the idea in theory, but still feel it's up to parents to manage.
How do we keep alcohol away from kids? Or gambling? No system will be perfect, but anything would be better than what we have today which is literally allowing them to be marketed at kids.
Generally speaking both gambling and alchohol require an in store purchase with ID required to purchase or enter.
Online presents an entirely different set of challenges than brick and mortar sales.
Maybe. But then again I regularly order wine baskets for the holidays(admittedly not the same as a 6-pack). I’m not up to date on what online gambling is legal in the states. I think it’s a mishmash between the States though. Pretty sure some places you can bet on sports and others you can’t.
Well, if Lootboxes = gambling them I guess it should follow the same rules as other gambling. And if the laws need to be updated (which they apparently do) maybe Congress can actually do something. Although I’m sure like everything else it will become a fight between left and right.
Maybe like I suggested, the first step is to make it illegal to market to children. That seems like a no-brainer that left-right and anyone in between can agree on.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The compromise is to have them but put clearly next to it the odds of what you can get.
Agree, but also keep it away from minors.
How exactly? National ID system? Photographs of driver's licenses? Notarized even?
I'm all for the idea in theory, but still feel it's up to parents to manage.
How do we keep alcohol away from kids? Or gambling? No system will be perfect, but anything would be better than what we have today which is literally allowing them to be marketed at kids.
Generally speaking both gambling and alchohol require an in store purchase with ID required to purchase or enter.
Online presents an entirely different set of challenges than brick and mortar sales.
Maybe. But then again I regularly order wine baskets for the holidays(admittedly not the same as a 6-pack). I’m not up to date on what online gambling is legal in the states. I think it’s a mishmash between the States though. Pretty sure some places you can bet on sports and others you can’t.
Well, if Lootboxes = gambling them I guess it should follow the same rules as other gambling. And if the laws need to be updated (which they apparently do) maybe Congress can actually do something. Although I’m sure like everything else it will become a fight between left and right.
Maybe like I suggested, the first step is to make it illegal to market to children. That seems like a no-brainer that left-right and anyone in between can agree on.
The problem there is kids play games that are 18+ and have ways of getting round the need for a parents credit card. To me gambling should not be in gaming, If you opened a child's Monopoly set or an adults Trivial Pursuits, you would not expect to get a call from a croupier asking you for financial details to let you bet on aspects of the game.
The compromise is to have them but put clearly next to it the odds of what you can get.
Agree, but also keep it away from minors.
How exactly? National ID system? Photographs of driver's licenses? Notarized even?
I'm all for the idea in theory, but still feel it's up to parents to manage.
How do we keep alcohol away from kids? Or gambling? No system will be perfect, but anything would be better than what we have today which is literally allowing them to be marketed at kids.
Generally speaking both gambling and alchohol require an in store purchase with ID required to purchase or enter.
Online presents an entirely different set of challenges than brick and mortar sales.
It always cracks me up when I go to a website and it says 'You must be 18 years old to enter"....so you type in a fictitious birthdate and all is good......Online gambling is a bad thing...Theres a million ways around the age restrictions.
I still don't understand the difference between loot boxes and card packs in TCGs and CCGs, other than one is now taboo and the other is perfectly acceptable. If only someone had thought of the children back when I was constantly begging my parents for X-Men card packs.
To me, this just comes off as the latest angle politicians and regulators are trying to take in proving that video games in general are bad.
I dont' play trading card games. But there are a few difference to me.
1) You can just buy the card from other people. And skip the "gambling part" 2) You can actually sell the card. And recover the money you spent. 3) If the price of card go up, you might actually make more money.
I still don't understand the difference between loot boxes and card packs in TCGs and CCGs, other than one is now taboo and the other is perfectly acceptable. If only someone had thought of the children back when I was constantly begging my parents for X-Men card packs.
To me, this just comes off as the latest angle politicians and regulators are trying to take in proving that video games in general are bad.
I dont' play trading card games. But there are a few difference to me.
1) You can just buy the card from other people. And skip the "gambling part" 2) You can actually sell the card. And recover the money you spent. 3) If the price of card go up, you might actually make more money.
Some MMOs have such methods to acquire stuff found in lootboxes from other players (for example, GW2) but they still get a lot of flak.
Do you own the virtual item?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I still don't understand the difference between loot boxes and card packs in TCGs and CCGs, other than one is now taboo and the other is perfectly acceptable. If only someone had thought of the children back when I was constantly begging my parents for X-Men card packs.
To me, this just comes off as the latest angle politicians and regulators are trying to take in proving that video games in general are bad.
I dont' play trading card games. But there are a few difference to me.
1) You can just buy the card from other people. And skip the "gambling part" 2) You can actually sell the card. And recover the money you spent. 3) If the price of card go up, you might actually make more money.
Yeah. The difference between Magic the Gathering boosters and gaming loot boxes is that I can purchase cards directly from my friends or from the local game stores without ever putting a dime into the booster packs.
And, as much Wizards like to forget, boosters are made for draft play, not to pop a couple in hopes you'll get the card you want - thats just bad decision making.
Nobody in the MTG community will say you should pop some boosters to get a card. Just go and purchase directly from someone from the many sites that sells them. And you also can sell yours so... yeah.
Video game loot boxes giving no physical prize - no tangible nor permanent resource - that's the issue. It could be solved with a "Steam Market" of sorts which would allow players to exchange between them (with a cut, of course)... but companies would hate that, wouldn't they?
Even Wizards, time to time, try to battle the secondary market... So much so they gave up and accepted most non rotation formats which are fully fueled by the secondary market. Bye bye brawl.
Those cards had to come from some official source at some point, they didn't spawn out of the aether. The existence of a secondary market doesn't change the fact that all of those cards were at one point most likely sealed inside a random pack and gotten by chance from someone who "gambled" for it.
Many digital card games allow players to craft cards in lieu of a secondary market. Most games that offer loot boxes offer the same items in the shop. If it's okay for MTG to sell boosters because you can get cards outside of packs then it should be fine for games to offer loot boxes as long as the same items are available outside the boxes.
Nope. Local game stores order, Idk, 10 boxes, they open 5 and sell 5.
People who open boxes open the whole box, not single boosters for RNG.
Come on, this is not a secret. Anyone who plays Magic knows the drill.
What does who opened them, when and how many at a time have to do with anything? A booster pack, digital or physical, is a random assortment of cards. A loot box is a random assortment of items. They are the same thing under different names.
It matters because if the store opens the random item pack, then it's never opened by a consumer. And gambling laws are meant to prevent consumers from gambling, not to prevent companies from doing whatever the hell they want as long as it doesn't involve any consumer gambling.
Comments
No better way into a greedy one’s heart than in their wallet.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Like I said before, Easy come, easy go
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
But then again, i get the whole stop policing everything as at some point people need to be responsible for their actions.
The compromise is to have them but put clearly next to it the odds of what you can get.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'm all for the idea in theory, but still feel it's up to parents to manage.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Where I'm from (Finland), it's arranged so that some actors like banks can provide electronic ID verification: I have to log in same way I'd log into my online bank, and the bank verifies my ID to the webpage I'm using.
Some kind of electronic ID is coming to the rest of the world too. It's only a matter of time.
Parents teach their children nothing of the world because they know nothing of the world. They only know what the eye tells them and thats usually misdirection and dark paths.
You dont have to believe in Christianity to see that hell is coming now that its power is waning.
It was actually a significant relief when the last one reached 18.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Online presents an entirely different set of challenges than brick and mortar sales.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, if Lootboxes = gambling them I guess it should follow the same rules as other gambling. And if the laws need to be updated (which they apparently do) maybe Congress can actually do something. Although I’m sure like everything else it will become a fight between left and right.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Looks like online gambling is about to explode.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Certainly not this fatherless gangsta tribal shithole.
1) You can just buy the card from other people. And skip the "gambling part"
2) You can actually sell the card. And recover the money you spent.
3) If the price of card go up, you might actually make more money.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018