Defendants in Chronicles of Elyria Lawsuit Deciding Whether to Challenge Complaint | MMORPG.com

System · April 2021

Defendants in Chronicles of Elyria Lawsuit Deciding Whether to Challenge Complaint | MMORPG.com

It's been a minute since the previous update in the ongoing lawsuit regarding Chronicles of Elyria developers Soulbound Studios, Xsolla, and consumers. Just yesterday, however, an update was posted in the lawsuit's Discord channel notifying us of the next step in the process.

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xpsync · April 2021

Dragging it out till no ones gives a shit...

Wizardry · April 2021

My hunch is that this KOE ties into this.HE likely filed KOE under a different LLC that granted full use of the COE code so he can basically shut down but continue on as KOE.So what happens is they win the suit against the LLC "Soulbound"and shuts down but nothing more comes of it,he wanted to shut down anyway.

What i can't figure out is this Xsolla and their suit against them.If there ever was a fair competition act to be filed it would be against the giant monopolies like Amazon so i just don't see this amounting to anything.Xsolla also offers cancelations to their service so there would be no long term contract ties or anything like that.They simply get a small cut of less than $1 for each transaction a far cry from Amazon or Steam attaining a 30% cut.

Xsolla is also no different than any other marketing firm,imo they are all scummy operating under the pretense that they MUST deceive the consumers to get them to buy or spend on said clients product.However any winning suit would send a ripple affect that would allow ALL marketing firms to be sued so i just don't see it happening. So imo a complete waste of time.

Ungood · April 2021

I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.

Scot · April 2021

Great picture, he clearly did not have his eyes open as to what he was walking into in terms of the amount of work, what he actually needed to do to make the game he promised, or what he is going to do now he is the defendant in this case.

theGnade · April 2021

If they asked money for development (Early access, Crowdfunding) I hope they burn and good job those who sued them.

Ungood · April 2021

Scot said:

Great picture, he clearly did not have his eyes open as to what he was walking into in terms of the amount of work, what he actually needed to do to make the game he promised, or what he is going to do now he is the defendant in this case.

Or you know.. make something that could have at the very least passed for a honest effort to make the game he promised.

Scot · April 2021

theGnade said:

If they asked money for development (Early access, Crowdfunding) I hope they burn and good job those who sued them.

I was going to say Ungood was being to harsh there, but you take that biscuit. They deserve money back and the interest it would have earned, that would be justice. It is not abnormal in business cases to ban someone from being a company director, as a form of probation following mismanagement. I think that would also be appropriate here.

GrindcoreTHRALL · April 2021

Is there a chance we get our money back?

Slapshot1188 · April 2021

Scot said:

Great picture, he clearly did not have his eyes open as to what he was walking into in terms of the amount of work, what he actually needed to do to make the game he promised, or what he is going to do now he is the defendant in this case.

I think I just found my new wallpaper

Kyleran · April 2021

GrindcoreTHRALL said:

Is there a chance we get our money back?

Yes assuming the suit against Xsolla prevails as they actually have the funds to pay any awards.

Soulbound itself is probably close to broke and will likely go bankrupt in a heartbeat.

Ungood said:

I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.

Unless they manage to pierce the corporate veil (no easy task) Jeremy's personal assets are likely safe from seizure, only the Corporate assets can be liquidated.

Unless of course he did something really stupid, like directly pay his personal expenses or bills using the corporate checking accounts.....

lahnmir · April 2021

He does look like he is praying in that picture, for a miracle that is.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

MightyUnclean · April 2021

GrindcoreTHRALL said:

Is there a chance we get our money back?

After attorneys' fees, all of the plaintiffs can look forward to a fat $1.25 check. Really though, the suit is more about holding the defendants accountable.

Ungood · April 2021

Kyleran said:

Ungood said:

I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.

Unless they manage to pierce the corporate veil (no easy task) Jeremy's personal assets are likely safe from seizure, only the Corporate assets can be liquidated.

Unless of course he did something really stupid, like directly pay his personal expenses or bills using the corporate checking accounts.....

Given SBS was created for this sole purpose to collect money to make this game, they use present that it was nothing more than a dummy front, which, since he didn't get any actual work done, should be pretty easy to do.

No matter what some people may think, you can't just make an LLC to scam people, and treat it like a bulletproof vest.

It becomes very hard to tack direct personal fraud on someone who had a legit company that did some shady thing, it's not so hard when this was the only reason for the company to exist.

Nilden · April 2021

Slapshot1188 said:

Scot said:

Great picture, he clearly did not have his eyes open as to what he was walking into in terms of the amount of work, what he actually needed to do to make the game he promised, or what he is going to do now he is the defendant in this case.

I think I just found my new toiletpaper

Fixed that for ya

Slapshot1188 · April 2021

Nilden said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Scot said:

Great picture, he clearly did not have his eyes open as to what he was walking into in terms of the amount of work, what he actually needed to do to make the game he promised, or what he is going to do now he is the defendant in this case.

I think I just found my new toiletpaper

Fixed that for ya

No I've already got that but with eyes wide open.

Kyleran · April 2021

Ungood said:

Kyleran said:

Ungood said:

I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.

Unless they manage to pierce the corporate veil (no easy task) Jeremy's personal assets are likely safe from seizure, only the Corporate assets can be liquidated.

Unless of course he did something really stupid, like directly pay his personal expenses or bills using the corporate checking accounts.....

Given SBS was created for this sole purpose to collect money to make this game, they use present that it was nothing more than a dummy front, which, since he didn't get any actual work done, should be pretty easy to do.

No matter what some people may think, you can't just make an LLC to scam people, and treat it like a bulletproof vest.

It becomes very hard to tack direct personal fraud on someone who had a legit company that did some shady thing, it's not so hard when this was the only reason for the company to exist.

From all evidence I've seen over the years there were several buildings rented, as many as 30 employee on the payroll, and we've seen some evidence of a game being built, world's being generated etc.

None of this ended up in producing anything useful but as long as they were earnestly trying and can prove it then no fraud occurred.

But hey, that's what the courts are for, to try and discern the truth, time will tell.

TwistedSister77 · April 2021

Getting blood from a stone... probably no real $$ left to get. Hence, they might not even bother paying to defend the suit.

Correct me if someone has their current balance sheet.

Mendel · April 2021

lahnmir said:

He does look like he is praying in that picture, for a miracle that is.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

He'd better be in good standing with the powers that be. It might take 3 or more miracles to clear the mess made of this 'project'.

McSleaz · April 2021

TwistedSister77 said:

Getting blood from a stone... probably no real $$ left to get. Hence, they might not even bother paying to defend the suit.

Correct me if someone has their current balance sheet.

Read the Lawsuit. Xsolla is being sued for refusing to honor refunds amongst other things. Xsolla has piles of cash so not sure where you are getting "blood from a stone".

moguy1 · April 2021

Clearly a lot of folks are fresh to crowd funding just like the noobs that play the stock market on a hunch. Welcome to being in the red. Buy the finished product or be ok with a wait / loss. Even if its a win in your favor you still have to collect. That IS the worst part of winning a lawsuit.

Ungood · April 2021

Kyleran said:

Ungood said:

Kyleran said:

Ungood said:

I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.

Unless they manage to pierce the corporate veil (no easy task) Jeremy's personal assets are likely safe from seizure, only the Corporate assets can be liquidated.

Unless of course he did something really stupid, like directly pay his personal expenses or bills using the corporate checking accounts.....

Given SBS was created for this sole purpose to collect money to make this game, they use present that it was nothing more than a dummy front, which, since he didn't get any actual work done, should be pretty easy to do.

No matter what some people may think, you can't just make an LLC to scam people, and treat it like a bulletproof vest.

It becomes very hard to tack direct personal fraud on someone who had a legit company that did some shady thing, it's not so hard when this was the only reason for the company to exist.

From all evidence I've seen over the years there were several buildings rented, as many as 30 employee on the payroll, and we've seen some evidence of a game being built, world's being generated etc.

None of this ended up in producing anything useful but as long as they were earnestly trying and can prove it then no fraud occurred.

But hey, that's what the courts are for, to try and discern the truth, time will tell.

That depends.

Good Faith.. only covers the Kickstarter contract between the Creator and the Backers, not the contract between Xsolla and Soul Bound dealing with refunds, which is what this case is targeting.

In short, we all should know by now that the whole plan for this legal litigation action was to drag Xsolla into the dumpster fire that is CoE, so that they would go after SBS to recoup their losses.

Even if all that happens in a pile of legal fees, this will also destroy Walsh directly, as now he has become a danger to anyone in the industry, in short, this effectively black lists him on everyone's platform.

Scot · April 2021

Kyleran said:

GrindcoreTHRALL said:

Is there a chance we get our money back?

Yes assuming the suit against Xsolla prevails as they actually have the funds to pay any awards.

Soulbound itself is probably close to broke and will likely go bankrupt in a heartbeat.

Ungood said:

I really hope they drag Walsh all over the coals and take everything he has.

Unless they manage to pierce the corporate veil (no easy task) Jeremy's personal assets are likely safe from seizure, only the Corporate assets can be liquidated.

Unless of course he did something really stupid, like directly pay his personal expenses or bills using the corporate checking accounts.....

Yes, when I said a fair result would be money spent returned plus interest and a temporary ban as a director, I am assuming no criminal activity like syphoning of funds. The reason I don't think that has occurred is we had ample examples of mismanagement and failure to understand what was needed to make the game or understand the player base. That would make any company run out of money.

BruceYee · April 2021

If he's working on the game again then how does this lawsuit still exist? Xsolla does not have to honor their refund policy cause technically the game is being worked on again?

Slapshot1188 · April 2021

BruceYee said:

If he's working on the game again then how does this lawsuit still exist? Xsolla does not have to honor their refund policy cause technically the game is being worked on again?

Xsolla's refund policy in essence said that you could request a refund up until release. As the game has not released.. they should refund the cash.

Kyleran · April 2021

BruceYee said:

If he's working on the game again then how does this lawsuit still exist? Xsolla does not have to honor their refund policy cause technically the game is being worked on again?

The clause about continuing work only applies to the $900K he raised on Kickstarter.

The other $7M was raised directly through Xsolla which had no such qualifier, their TOS at the time said "buyers" could request a refund at any time prior to delivery.

It was a huge over sight on Xsolla's part which I think Jeremy's lawyers realized because all monies collected were clearly called donations with no refund after some period, 30 days I believe.

Soulbounds TOS also included another smart proviso, which stated Xsolla's TOS superceded Soulbounds when it came to paying any refunds.

I'm sure the court case will involve much thrashing over the meaning of words, in the EU they already declared crowd funding payments could only be called donations if they offered no specific benefits.

So most of Soulbounds offerings were itemized with a promised return so clearly would be sales and therefore the VAT should have been collected and paid.

My guess is Jeremy has deferred paying the VAT until the game is actually delivered so another reason he might be continuing work is to stave off any EU or US taxes which were owed

I recall back when SotA used to publish annual financials one of the last ones had roughly a $4M tax deferral listed, not sure how they're managing that since launching.

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Defendants in Chronicles of Elyria Lawsuit Deciding Whether to Challenge Complaint | MMORPG.com

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Defendants in Chronicles of Elyria Lawsuit Deciding Whether to Challenge Complaint | MMORPG.com

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV