It is why monetization doesnt bother me. To me monetizatiom affects the mechanics of the game, and P2W and other games with crappy monetization are built around crappy mechanics so i dont play them.
To me if the game is fun, ill play it, and games i find fun usually dont have crappy monetization.
But to each their own. Game companies need to make money and keeping more people playing and that is the smart thing to do.
So for a single game, the more ways to play, the better. I always thought that mmos should have the following within each game.
1) sub based server 2) f2p with cash shop 3) b2p + pay for expansion server
Then again, there are probably a million logistics reason why it wont work that i dont know about because im not a developer.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Which is why, in GW2, I ended up buying unlimited harvesting tools for all my characters after realizing what a scam BL Chests were, and opted to never use their RNG BS again.
Apparently I was not alone, as harvesting tools are a popular seller, so, yes, you can move the market, but like moving fish, you need to give them food to follow, not just splash at the water making a fuss of yourself.
you felt it was scam because you didn't get anything useful or because the things you got didn't equate to the money spent ?
For the life of me, I am trying to figure out the intrinsic difference between those choices.
However, at the end of the day the answer is: Yes.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
It is why monetization doesnt bother me. To me monetizatiom affects the mechanics of the game, and P2W and other games with crappy monetization are built around crappy mechanics so i dont play them.
To me if the game is fun, ill play it, and games i find fun usually dont have crappy monetization.
I notice this for myself as well.
Normally the worse the monetization system is, the overall worse the game mechanics and playing are, so I never get into them long enough to be invested into the game enough to feel obligated to buy into their system.
Instead, I find games I enjoy playing, and buy into their systems, which more often than not, are decent systems that make me feel good about supporting them.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I haven't played a single MMORPG that required an unreasonable amount of money to play the game. Monetization for these games is always such a hot topic but it remains one of the cheapest hobbies. Anyone here paint? Read? Have a project car? Fish? Hunt? Play tabletop games? Card games? Cook? Exercise? Woodwork? Glassblow?
I'm realizing most people are so bored with MMOs that they'd rather
squabble about $10-$60 and the financial standings of corporations than play the games. Just move on if you're this bored.
I'm not really sure what your argument there is. Are you arguing that:
1) It's completely reasonable for games to ask you to pay hundreds of dollars buying loot boxes to eventually get the one item you want. And then ask you to do it again for another item next month. 2) You don't care about whale bait items and in every game you've played, you've been able to play just fine without them. 3) You've never played games with unreasonable monetization because you can spot them and avoid them without playing them to learn the hard way. 4) You have no idea what I'm talking about on points (1)-(3) because in the particular games you've played, developers have never done anything remotely like that.
Those would be four very different arguments to make, but all of them are consistent with what you said. I'd like to know which argument you're making.
I also look at a game like Everquest that I played for about 5 years......Between subs and expansions I probably paid well over a thousand dollars for it.....A thousand dollars to play a video game.....When I think about that now, it's just ridiculous but the money was not a problem at the time, and we had no other option back then.
If a game is fun to play actively for several years, then I think that paying a thousand dollars to play it for all that time is perfectly fine. To me, the question is, how much money per amount of time you have fun playing the game.
I don't have a problem with total cost necessarily, but I do have a problem with how access is cut off if you stop recurring payments to their billing system no matter how much you've paid. This isn't a utility but it is often treated and billed as such.
I understand your point, and do somewhat agree. But... (There has to be a but, right?)
You lose neither your account nor your time invested when you do not pay. 5 years later, just drop $15 to activate it again and maybe catch up on expansions, if the game still exists of course
It's like paying for cable: almost $1000+/year. Just don't look at the "total paid" over years of entertainment, right?
I do see Theo's point, too. If one is spending minimal time in an MMO, there is very little reason to invest much at all.
When all is said, I just want to play the same as everyone else
More on topic:
I like the thoughts, Quizzical. "Cosmetics are fine." seems to be the "preferred" method of taxation. I hardly ever hear of support for a PvP pay/fight idea. Paying for raiding by each raid never gets mentioned. Crafting can be taxed if the game "times out" crafting activity behind "buy more time" items in the cash shop.
Should we go back to the pay by the minute or hour scheme? Subs were created to make paying easier.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Which is why, in GW2, I ended up buying unlimited harvesting tools for all my characters after realizing what a scam BL Chests were, and opted to never use their RNG BS again.
Apparently I was not alone, as harvesting tools are a popular seller, so, yes, you can move the market, but like moving fish, you need to give them food to follow, not just splash at the water making a fuss of yourself.
you felt it was scam because you didn't get anything useful or because the things you got didn't equate to the money spent ?
For the life of me, I am trying to figure out the intrinsic difference between those choices.
However, at the end of the day the answer is: Yes.
Example A : paying $5.00 for Epic mount loot box, regardless of what mount it is it will be epic
Example B : Paying $5.00 for the "chance" of an epic mount, but you only got uncommon
Example C : paying $10 dollars for a season with laid out rewards per level
Example D : Paying $10 dollars for a season and not getting anything useful.
To be honest, from the pack of keys I bought, I got a BL skin which I didn't want and sold it to buy the skin I wanted anyway, so, ideally, I didn't do bad.
But, I thought it was a scam, because I don't like the idea of just rolling the dice for what I get, when I open 10 boxes, and get 8 piles of shit, and 2 decent things, even if I didn't do bad in the long haul, I just didn't like that kind of system, where I need to play a large numbers game to supposedly win. I feel that when I put my real money on the line for a game, I should get to pick what I get.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Which is why, in GW2, I ended up buying unlimited harvesting tools for all my characters after realizing what a scam BL Chests were, and opted to never use their RNG BS again.
Apparently I was not alone, as harvesting tools are a popular seller, so, yes, you can move the market, but like moving fish, you need to give them food to follow, not just splash at the water making a fuss of yourself.
you felt it was scam because you didn't get anything useful or because the things you got didn't equate to the money spent ?
For the life of me, I am trying to figure out the intrinsic difference between those choices.
However, at the end of the day the answer is: Yes.
Example A : paying $5.00 for Epic mount loot box, regardless of what mount it is it will be epic
Example B : Paying $5.00 for the "chance" of an epic mount, but you only got uncommon
Example C : paying $10 dollars for a season with laid out rewards per level
Example D : Paying $10 dollars for a season and not getting anything useful.
To be honest, from the pack of keys I bought, I got a BL skin which I didn't want and sold it to buy the skin I wanted anyway, so, ideally, I didn't do bad.
But, I thought it was a scam, because I don't like the idea of just rolling the dice for what I get, when I open 10 boxes, and get 8 piles of shit, and 2 decent things, even if I didn't do bad in the long haul, I just didn't like that kind of system, where I need to play a large numbers game to supposedly win. I feel that when I put my real money on the line for a game, I should get to pick what I get.
Reminds me of the Casino. You put a buck in a slot machine push the button and it says you just won 40 cents when in actuality you just lost sixty cents.
Which is why, in GW2, I ended up buying unlimited harvesting tools for all my characters after realizing what a scam BL Chests were, and opted to never use their RNG BS again.
Apparently I was not alone, as harvesting tools are a popular seller, so, yes, you can move the market, but like moving fish, you need to give them food to follow, not just splash at the water making a fuss of yourself.
you felt it was scam because you didn't get anything useful or because the things you got didn't equate to the money spent ?
For the life of me, I am trying to figure out the intrinsic difference between those choices.
However, at the end of the day the answer is: Yes.
Example A : paying $5.00 for Epic mount loot box, regardless of what mount it is it will be epic
Example B : Paying $5.00 for the "chance" of an epic mount, but you only got uncommon
Example C : paying $10 dollars for a season with laid out rewards per level
Example D : Paying $10 dollars for a season and not getting anything useful.
To be honest, from the pack of keys I bought, I got a BL skin which I didn't want and sold it to buy the skin I wanted anyway, so, ideally, I didn't do bad.
But, I thought it was a scam, because I don't like the idea of just rolling the dice for what I get, when I open 10 boxes, and get 8 piles of shit, and 2 decent things, even if I didn't do bad in the long haul, I just didn't like that kind of system, where I need to play a large numbers game to supposedly win. I feel that when I put my real money on the line for a game, I should get to pick what I get.
Reminds me of the Casino. You put a buck in a slot machine push the button and it says you just won 40 cents when in actuality you just lost sixty cents.
"Reminds me of the Casino. You put a buck in a slot machine push the
button and it says you just won 40 cents when in actuality you just lost
sixty cents."
Funny you mention that as an example...I live in an area with many casinos and know many gamblers.....Almost every single one of them never sees how much they lose, only how much they win.......It's an addiction....It's the same mentality that leads people to buy loot boxes with only a chance of getting something good
"Reminds me of the Casino. You put a buck in a slot machine push the
button and it says you just won 40 cents when in actuality you just lost
sixty cents."
Funny you mention that as an example...I live in an area with many casinos and know many gamblers.....Almost every single one of them never sees how much they lose, only how much they win.......It's an addiction....It's the same mentality that leads people to buy loot boxes with only a chance of getting something good
More often than not people I've met who are serious gamblers always claim they win more than they lose, makes me wonder how casinos, horse tracks and lotteries stay in business with everyone winning.
Must make it back from parking receipts or something.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Which is why, in GW2, I ended up buying unlimited harvesting tools for all my characters after realizing what a scam BL Chests were, and opted to never use their RNG BS again.
Apparently I was not alone, as harvesting tools are a popular seller, so, yes, you can move the market, but like moving fish, you need to give them food to follow, not just splash at the water making a fuss of yourself.
you felt it was scam because you didn't get anything useful or because the things you got didn't equate to the money spent ?
For the life of me, I am trying to figure out the intrinsic difference between those choices.
However, at the end of the day the answer is: Yes.
Example A : paying $5.00 for Epic mount loot box, regardless of what mount it is it will be epic
Example B : Paying $5.00 for the "chance" of an epic mount, but you only got uncommon
Example C : paying $10 dollars for a season with laid out rewards per level
Example D : Paying $10 dollars for a season and not getting anything useful.
To be honest, from the pack of keys I bought, I got a BL skin which I didn't want and sold it to buy the skin I wanted anyway, so, ideally, I didn't do bad.
But, I thought it was a scam, because I don't like the idea of just rolling the dice for what I get, when I open 10 boxes, and get 8 piles of shit, and 2 decent things, even if I didn't do bad in the long haul, I just didn't like that kind of system, where I need to play a large numbers game to supposedly win. I feel that when I put my real money on the line for a game, I should get to pick what I get.
sounds like option B. Buying something and not feeling you got your money worth. This why people break in Black Desert, when they are buying tons of costumes do get cron stones and then fail on the enhancement which either doesn't work on gear so the enhance level stays the same, or lowers enhanced level on jewels.
I never get caught up in that, I use what I have and move on. One could say that is "predatory" but I feel still if the game provides the path for free, it is up to the player to choose the path.
Well, in the base of BL chest, yes, they are like Option B.
In my personal case, I got what I wanted, which was a Weapon Skin, So I played B, and I got the proverbial Epic Mount, or at the very least, what I wanted from the Chests, but even with that, I still realized the whole thing was a scam, and not a system I wanted to support.
Kinda like playing the slots, breaking even and realize this was still total scam, walking off the floor and buying that bottle of whisky instead from the Casino's store, because you would rather just spend the money on an honest transaction then play some bullshit slot machine.
Which again, brings us back to putting your money into what you want to support. In that vein, while I continued to buy things from the GW2 store, I kept all my purchases and transactions to what I felt where Honest exchanges.
To each their own. Sometimes, just because you win, does not mean you will like the system.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Well , interest news , NCsoft sues player who spend $ 3.5 million on they F2P game .
Could you expand on this? I've not heard about this at all, though I don't follow gaming news
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Well , interest news , NCsoft sues player who spend $ 3.5 million on they F2P game .
Could you expand on this? I've not heard about this at all, though I don't follow gaming news
A while back, some Mobile Game developer (not sure who) got dragged into a ton of illegal issues due to some drug lord spending millions of drug/illegal money on one of their games, and when they were finally taken down, the FBI, asked why their account was not flagged as suspicious, blah, blah.. in the end, the government confiscated the money, and you can imagine how well that went over with the game company, so, now they need to be more vigilant on whales, and people that are dumping TOO much into their games.
Irony huh?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Well , interest news , NCsoft sues player who spend $ 3.5 million on they F2P game .
Could you expand on this? I've not heard about this at all, though I don't follow gaming news
A while back, some Mobile Game developer (not sure who) got dragged into a ton of illegal issues due to some drug lord spending millions of drug/illegal money on one of their games, and when they were finally taken down, the FBI, asked why their account was not flagged as suspicious, blah, blah.. in the end, the government confiscated the money, and you can imagine how well that went over with the game company, so, now they need to be more vigilant on whales, and people that are dumping TOO much into their games.
Irony huh?
Way too much stupid money flying around these days. It’s being devalued, we’re heading for an inflation cycle that’s going to hurt.
Well , interest news , NCsoft sues player who spend $ 3.5 million on they F2P game .
Could you expand on this? I've not heard about this at all, though I don't follow gaming news
A while back, some Mobile Game developer (not sure who) got dragged into a ton of illegal issues due to some drug lord spending millions of drug/illegal money on one of their games, and when they were finally taken down, the FBI, asked why their account was not flagged as suspicious, blah, blah.. in the end, the government confiscated the money, and you can imagine how well that went over with the game company, so, now they need to be more vigilant on whales, and people that are dumping TOO much into their games.
Irony huh?
Interesting, sanctions screening is my day job and I've often pondered when OFAC and other AML regulatory agencies were going to sit up and take notice of the video gaming industry.
Thanks for sharing this info, I'll have to keep my eye out for more news on similar.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well , interest news , NCsoft sues player who spend $ 3.5 million on they F2P game .
Could you expand on this? I've not heard about this at all, though I don't follow gaming news
A while back, some Mobile Game developer (not sure who) got dragged into a ton of illegal issues due to some drug lord spending millions of drug/illegal money on one of their games, and when they were finally taken down, the FBI, asked why their account was not flagged as suspicious, blah, blah.. in the end, the government confiscated the money, and you can imagine how well that went over with the game company, so, now they need to be more vigilant on whales, and people that are dumping TOO much into their games.
Irony huh?
But even if the government confiscated the money, is the company still worse off than if the drug lord hadn't been able to spend it on their game? Maybe the payment processor took some percentage of it or something, but this doesn't seem like a huge deterrent.
Here's the thing, when businesses set up bank accounts they have to declare what regions they'll receive money from, what type of goods or services will be sold and how much typically will be received per customer or service.
Quite doubtful they said a customer could spend millions of dollars which would have raised the regulators interest right away.
So when this unexpectedly large income came in and was found to be fraudulent the banks and regulators would have threatened them with large fines and possibly being banned from the banking system altogether, which would mean the death of their business most likely.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well , interest news , NCsoft sues player who spend $ 3.5 million on they F2P game .
Could you expand on this? I've not heard about this at all, though I don't follow gaming news
You can google search lol . Just type NCsoft sues player and they are on top news
Basically
NCsoft's lineage mobile (or they other games?) add new update that add more P2W and then a player then P2W that worth 3.5 millions USD.
Then NCsoft decide that the patch was too P2W and they roll back the server
It mean all the progression is lost and the player's money too.
They did refund but not as the real money but 50% of cash shop money and 50% of junk item (so the p2w players lost half of they money)
Then that guy (who whaled 3.5 millions) come to they company to have an answer , then got ignored . Then he use his car to block the way and police got called.
So far the only stories about the NCSoft player suit are on Korean news sites which people are supplying varying interpretations.
One post on reddit claimed this particular incident involved a $100K dispute from a player who has spent almost $3.5M the past two years. (Or so he has claimed)
These days I believe almost nothing I read on the internet, particularly when the only source is bad reddit translation.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
It is why monetization doesnt bother me. To me monetizatiom affects the mechanics of the game, and P2W and other games with crappy monetization are built around crappy mechanics so i dont play them.
To me if the game is fun, ill play it, and games i find fun usually dont have crappy monetization.
But to each their own. Game companies need to make money and keeping more people playing and that is the smart thing to do.
So for a single game, the more ways to play, the better. I always thought that mmos should have the following within each game.
1) sub based server
2) f2p with cash shop
3) b2p + pay for expansion server
Then again, there are probably a million logistics reason why it wont work that i dont know about because im not a developer.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
However, at the end of the day the answer is: Yes.
Normally the worse the monetization system is, the overall worse the game mechanics and playing are, so I never get into them long enough to be invested into the game enough to feel obligated to buy into their system.
Instead, I find games I enjoy playing, and buy into their systems, which more often than not, are decent systems that make me feel good about supporting them.
There isn't an argument. I see games as a hobby.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
But, I thought it was a scam, because I don't like the idea of just rolling the dice for what I get, when I open 10 boxes, and get 8 piles of shit, and 2 decent things, even if I didn't do bad in the long haul, I just didn't like that kind of system, where I need to play a large numbers game to supposedly win. I feel that when I put my real money on the line for a game, I should get to pick what I get.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Must make it back from parking receipts or something.
;
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In my personal case, I got what I wanted, which was a Weapon Skin, So I played B, and I got the proverbial Epic Mount, or at the very least, what I wanted from the Chests, but even with that, I still realized the whole thing was a scam, and not a system I wanted to support.
Kinda like playing the slots, breaking even and realize this was still total scam, walking off the floor and buying that bottle of whisky instead from the Casino's store, because you would rather just spend the money on an honest transaction then play some bullshit slot machine.
Which again, brings us back to putting your money into what you want to support. In that vein, while I continued to buy things from the GW2 store, I kept all my purchases and transactions to what I felt where Honest exchanges.
To each their own. Sometimes, just because you win, does not mean you will like the system.
Which basically means some other people is paying for me to play...
For other games I usually get suck in to spend more than I should.
Could you expand on this? I've not heard about this at all, though I don't follow gaming news
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Irony huh?
imho
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Thanks for sharing this info, I'll have to keep my eye out for more news on similar.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Quite doubtful they said a customer could spend millions of dollars which would have raised the regulators interest right away.
So when this unexpectedly large income came in and was found to be fraudulent the banks and regulators would have threatened them with large fines and possibly being banned from the banking system altogether, which would mean the death of their business most likely.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
One post on reddit claimed this particular incident involved a $100K dispute from a player who has spent almost $3.5M the past two years. (Or so he has claimed)
These days I believe almost nothing I read on the internet, particularly when the only source is bad reddit translation.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon