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Games with "Legacies"

AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,694
Legacies. Your offspring. Personal dynasties.

Have you played games with this feature? Crusader Kings comes to my mind. Is it a feature that interests you?

The last couple of book series I read followed multiple generations of characters. It's intriguing when old characters pop back up after the story has moved on to new characters and offspring.

I have CK2 on my PC (not yet played - Paradox Interactive obtuseness) but have watched many streamers play CK3. Following (and helping) a dynasty in the making intrigues me. Is this a common basis for games these days?

Rogue-likes can touch on this, though they are the same character progressing through the game, not sons or daughters. Have any MMORPGs had this feature?

What are your thoughts on "Legacies?" Any interest? Any experience with them?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR


AsheramUngood

Comments

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,559
    Strictly by the word I thought you mean the legacy system of SWTOR, but that's more of an umbrella over your characters than an actual offspring/dynasty thing.

    AlBQuirky said:
    I have CK2 on my PC (not yet played - Paradox Interactive obtuseness) but have watched many streamers play CK3. Following (and helping) a dynasty in the making intrigues me. Is this a common basis for games these days?

    Have any MMORPGs had this feature?
    What's wrong with Paradox? They have some really fun games... :)

    I don't know of any MMORPGs with similar systems, family trees are roleplaying features at most. (LotRO gives some titles for example, if you're in relation with other players)

    On the singleplayer side you're more in luck, even if not liking Paradox or the strategy aspect of the dynasty building (which is there due to CK was using Europa Universalis as a foundation).

    Even before the first CK there was The Guild (maiden name Europa 1400: The Guild :) ), which is exactly what you're looking for. Roll a character, building your dynasty, as you grow old and die your offspring takes up the mantle, you keep playing.
    AlBQuirky
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,694
    Po_gg said:
    Strictly by the word I thought you mean the legacy system of SWTOR, but that's more of an umbrella over your characters than an actual offspring/dynasty thing.

    AlBQuirky said:
    I have CK2 on my PC (not yet played - Paradox Interactive obtuseness) but have watched many streamers play CK3. Following (and helping) a dynasty in the making intrigues me. Is this a common basis for games these days?

    Have any MMORPGs had this feature?
    What's wrong with Paradox? They have some really fun games... :)

    I don't know of any MMORPGs with similar systems, family trees are roleplaying features at most. (LotRO gives some titles for example, if you're in relation with other players)

    On the singleplayer side you're more in luck, even if not liking Paradox or the strategy aspect of the dynasty building (which is there due to CK was using Europa Universalis as a foundation).

    Even before the first CK there was The Guild (maiden name Europa 1400: The Guild :) ), which is exactly what you're looking for. Roll a character, building your dynasty, as you grow old and die your offspring takes up the mantle, you keep playing.
    I thought I recalled "something" about SWtOR having something.

    Paradox: I'm too stupid to make it through their tutorials! LOL (CK2, Europa Universalis 2-3, Hearts of Iron 1-3)

    Thanks for tips! I'll look into "The Guild", for sure!

    Also PS:
    I kind of tried a "Legacy Elder Scrolls" run once. Started a character in Morrowind, then rolled "an offspring" for Oblivion, then another for Skyrim. Not the same, though :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 6,463
    I would suggest Hyperdimension Neptunia series but I suspect you wouldn't play those games.
    AlBQuirky

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,396
    I think Chronicles of Elyria said they were going to do something similar with aging, perma-death and offsprings. One of many ideas they had that sounded interesting on paper and why I presume they got so many to waste spend money on it.

    I think it's an interesting idea also but IMO it would have to be done carefully so that the heir has a significant leg-up based on the inheritance (not just items but skills, accelerated advancement, etc.) otherwise it would just be like deleting a high level character and starting over. That wouldn't wash with the vast majority of potential players.
    UngoodAlBQuirky
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    Iselin said:
    I think Chronicles of Elyria said they were going to do something similar with aging, perma-death and offsprings. One of many ideas they had that sounded interesting on paper and why I presume they got so many to waste spend money on it.

    I think it's an interesting idea also but IMO it would have to be done carefully so that the heir has a significant leg-up based on the inheritance (not just items but skills, accelerated advancement, etc.) otherwise it would just be like deleting a high level character and starting over. That wouldn't wash with the vast majority of potential players.
    Yah, they claimed they were going to have a whole linage system, birthright, and even royal bloodline thing going on.

    Personally this idea really amazed me, and I for one was super excited about the prospect of my character aging, in a game world that could change over time, such a super cool idea, really, as opposed to playing a Barbie™ Doll Character in a world that was forever static.

    While I never gave them a cent, I have to admit, I was more than excited about the prospect of playing a game like that if it ever launched. 

    Maybe someday, a real company, can take on such a project and maybe make that happen.
    AlBQuirky
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,717
     Easier to have kids in RL
    AlBQuirky
  • AugustusGAugustusG Member UncommonPosts: 34
    I don't know in what degree it quilifies but in BDO you choose a familly name that all your characters share they are of the same familly.
    AlBQuirkyUngood
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,694
    edited March 28
    kitarad said:
    I would suggest Hyperdimension Neptunia series but I suspect you wouldn't play those games.
    I looked this up. GOG has many of the games!

    I searched for a gameplay video (after watching a trailer) and I doubt I'll get it immediately but I wishlisted the series :)


    It could be interesting :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,694
    Iselin said:
    I think Chronicles of Elyria said they were going to do something similar with aging, perma-death and offsprings. One of many ideas they had that sounded interesting on paper and why I presume they got so many to waste spend money on it.

    I think it's an interesting idea also but IMO it would have to be done carefully so that the heir has a significant leg-up based on the inheritance (not just items but skills, accelerated advancement, etc.) otherwise it would just be like deleting a high level character and starting over. That wouldn't wash with the vast majority of potential players.
    Interesting. I had no ides.

    I don't know if that would be "good" in an MMORPG setting, but I would definitely enjoy looking into it. I do wish MMORPGs had a better "passage of time" mechanic in them.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,694
    Scorchien said:
     Easier to have kids in RL
    "Easier?" I'm not sure about that :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,559
    edited March 28
    AlBQuirky said:
    kitarad said:
    I would suggest Hyperdimension Neptunia series but I suspect you wouldn't play those games.
    I looked this up. GOG has many of the games!

    I searched for a gameplay video (after watching a trailer) and I doubt I'll get it immediately but I wishlisted the series :)


    It could be interesting :)
    Interesting suggestion indeed...
    Maybe I'm wrong (I mostly just know the anime) but is it a "legacy" game in the sense Al meant it?
    As far as I know there's no similar "advancement" like in CK (or The Guild) in the individual games, and even just a mild one if you consider the entire series as a whole.

    There's a family aspect in the sense of all the main characters have a sister (or two, in case of the Wii's twin sisters, a reference to the portable :) ), but none of the characters age during the game.


    Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's a bad game, just that not the best candidate for
    "Legacies. Your offspring. Personal dynasties."
    (by that review it actually looks decent, and the anime itself is silly fun, if you like the techie references and puns)
    AlBQuirky
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,563
    AlBQuirky said:
    Iselin said:
    I think Chronicles of Elyria said they were going to do something similar with aging, perma-death and offsprings. One of many ideas they had that sounded interesting on paper and why I presume they got so many to waste spend money on it.

    I think it's an interesting idea also but IMO it would have to be done carefully so that the heir has a significant leg-up based on the inheritance (not just items but skills, accelerated advancement, etc.) otherwise it would just be like deleting a high level character and starting over. That wouldn't wash with the vast majority of potential players.
    Interesting. I had no ides.

    I don't know if that would be "good" in an MMORPG setting, but I would definitely enjoy looking into it. I do wish MMORPGs had a better "passage of time" mechanic in them.
    Ok, CoE was and is a scam. But the ideas pitched sounded really good, which no doubt is why so many got drawn in and taken advantage of.

    In any case, the whole Growing Old/Dying of Old Age aspect of their game was their entire market strategy, players would need to buy a Spark of Life, which would allow them to make a character. This Spark, would determine basically their place in the cast system of this game, Peasants, Trades, Nobel's, you get the idea.

    A lot of his marketing was done around selling specific tiers of sparks of life, Obviously the better Tier you wanted, the more it was going to cost.

    In simple terms, You by a Royal Spark, Several Tiers here, Dukes, Barons, Kings, etc, anyway. so.. like just to make sure he shafted the most number of people, Tier costs like a few grand, but you get to start as a King, when you get into the game, you are born of royal bloodline, heir to the throne, and your parents were Kings and Queens, and they died upon your arrival into the game, and thus, you are the new Monarch.

    The next step to this, was buying advantages for your Bloodline, Ergo, what kind of kingdom they will be born into, how wealthy, how established, etc, buying preset buildings and the like, basically paying for the competence of your forbearers, which gives your newly born avatar all the advantages you can mortgage your house to get.

    Then you had tradespeople, for a modest fee of a few hundred, which again, you could buy a bloodline, be born into a family of trades people, and auction off your car to fund the competence of your tradespeople forbearers.

    and of course, you would have your Paupers and street rats for a modest fee of three fiddy, or whatever, and this would be the only thing you could buy once the game launched, just to make sure the scam was done fully before the game never launched.

    Anyway.

    Then when that character died, they would need to buy another spark, to make a new character, (again Price dependent on what tier you were at) this ensuring that the entire population of the game would need to spend at least that much every year to keep playing.

    This was also an issue with if you got killed, this aged you, cutting your roughly 12 - 18 months of life down by like 1 month, equally so, killing other people also soul marked you, and reduced your life expectancy as explained, this would cut your life back more than just dying, and also be affected by the person you killed. Ergo, Killing a Nobel could cut 6 months off your life, where Killing a Blacksmith would cut off 3 months, again, as we can easily tell at this point, this was a system designed to prompt the sale of "Sparks if Life"

    On the surface this idea looks decent enough, and really could have worked with an honest company, the soul damage and forcing people to spend money to be a raging douche seems like a good deterrent as well. 

    As well as time went on, it became less viable to make throw away characters, because, as your character progressed, they could pass along skills and equipment to their next incarnation, like a parent training and providing for their children.

    His next plan was rather cool as well, which was a fixed world, there would be a set number of resources in the game, a limited amount of iron, gold, etc, as well as fixed bodies of water and rivers, so building dams and the like, was a real option in the game world.

    And then you have a list of additional features that were going to make this work:
    • Fully Destructible world environment.
    • Fully Integrated Framing with Genetic Tracing.
    • Animal Husbandry - again with Generic Tracing.
    • All items would be crafted, no generic vendors.
    • No Trash items to fill inventory - Like RL, everything you get you can use (Mainly for crafting)
    • Open World PvP
    • Full Loot
    • Character Death Real (With limits) - Again, Sparks of Life.

    And then there was the thing that was going to tie it all together, with was a mechanic as Always-In, where your character would remain in the game world, controlled by AI, after you logged out.

    Again, this is a pretty cool feature as well.

    So.. there was a lot of hooks, and a lot of scams going on with the game, but the idea.. the idea of sparks of life, aging, limited world resources, hereditary, and even the character be active in the game after you logged out, were all very cool ideas in their own right, and if someone with tegerdy took on the project, I would be more than willing to get into something like that.


    AlBQuirky
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
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