Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Warhammer and me
Gorwe
Member Posts: 1,428
Please bear with me, this is a bit personal and I literally don't know where to write this(and I need to).
Right, on we go. Warhammer has been around me for my entire life. I always found it cool and the games themselves were always fun and it contains some of my favorite games(Mordheim, BFG: Armada, Vermintide) and a bunch of other ones which are enjoyable enough(Total Warhammer, Dawn of War, Dark Omen etc). It is nice, interesting and cool, but!
I like more what it could be or my own version of Warhammer(which is notably less absurd and dark) than the actual Warhammer! I like the inner workings of the Imperium etc, but must everything be soulcrushing(no, there are even books supporting that, but that don't sell shit)? Must every hard won victory be followed by 10 memey defeats? What's up with all the gore and stuff? I like a lot about it, but I HATE the general TONE of it. Like it's all directed at emo 15 year olds, come on, that's just such a waste of potential!
Basically, did you ever want to "break up" with an IP that is a large part of your life? Or how did you manage to go about it? I still quite like those games(and am looking forward to the Hired Gun), but...come on! Atm, I feel like I outgrew Warhammer lore and like I can literally do whatever I want with it(including silly stuff like NobleBright 40k). The lore is garbage anyhow(imo).
What do you think?
(edit: fuck all the skulls!)
Right, on we go. Warhammer has been around me for my entire life. I always found it cool and the games themselves were always fun and it contains some of my favorite games(Mordheim, BFG: Armada, Vermintide) and a bunch of other ones which are enjoyable enough(Total Warhammer, Dawn of War, Dark Omen etc). It is nice, interesting and cool, but!
I like more what it could be or my own version of Warhammer(which is notably less absurd and dark) than the actual Warhammer! I like the inner workings of the Imperium etc, but must everything be soulcrushing(no, there are even books supporting that, but that don't sell shit)? Must every hard won victory be followed by 10 memey defeats? What's up with all the gore and stuff? I like a lot about it, but I HATE the general TONE of it. Like it's all directed at emo 15 year olds, come on, that's just such a waste of potential!
Basically, did you ever want to "break up" with an IP that is a large part of your life? Or how did you manage to go about it? I still quite like those games(and am looking forward to the Hired Gun), but...come on! Atm, I feel like I outgrew Warhammer lore and like I can literally do whatever I want with it(including silly stuff like NobleBright 40k). The lore is garbage anyhow(imo).
What do you think?
(edit: fuck all the skulls!)
Comments
But I'm not an edgy teenager. I was always weird and eccentric, but never "edge"(was always closer to Data than to the kind of people that get turned on by this). They have a nice structure, nice games, cool art, but...it's all based around conflict and edge and that's simply exhausting. For me at least.
It's basically "here's a thing you don't really like (anymore), but it's been so long with you that you can't cut it out". Fascinating.
You need to need able to make something up for tricky players in table top who ask questions like you do.
Has any of you ever experienced such a thing?
But yeah, most of nuTrek / Disney Wars suck. Warhammer is an outlier here, where most of things stagnate(or devolve), it evolves and moves forward. Also, where I hate the changes to Trek / Wars, I love the essence. It's the other way around for Warhammer and I'm not certain that's a healthy thing.
Fun games, nice art and pretty satisfying structure, that's all for me from Warhammer.
That much is true. The entire tone is want to change, I simply dislike the overly serious, depressing tone they are known for. And badass, meaningless action doesn't really do it for me in a long term. They have danced quite a lot, this is most visible in Fantasy. Silly historic -> grim historic -> silly heroic fantasy 3x -> grim dark -> Nobledark. 6th did a lot for world and gameplay, but damn that tone! Can fk itself.
And I could like Warhammer even more. Don't really care for minis(would like to try painting them though), garbage books(simply can't care), lore is give and take. Meaning it's mostly about art side and games. If they lessen the hopeless part, I can only like them better. And stagnation is the worst, I'm glad we're through that abysmal period.
I can always ignore the spirit of the lore, can't I? If 4chan managed to write like 8 versions of Warhammer, including NobleBright Warhammer(roflolo)...why couldn't I?
Would like to read more about DreadFleet and Captain Jaego though. Wouldn't mind if Tindalos made such a game, imagine!
Because if it's the latter then just make up your own rules and change the setting as you'd like.
That's what I did with Dungeons and Dragons.
I changed things to my liking so that storytelling was more front and center and that the game got less bogged down in too many dice rolls.
Now, if it's the video games then that's their call. I've always thought of warhammer as being silly and dark at the same time.
That's their thing. If you don't like it then of course move on to something else. I get not liking the direction that a game (or book series) takes but that has to do with the creator(s) and what they want to do with their IP.
My thought has always been "If I don't like it I can make my own."
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The whole WH40k is about over the top setting, where there is no hope, every human life is essentially meaningless in a galaxy of trillions upon trillions of people and threats that devour entire sectors of the Milky Way and threaten the galaxy itself.
Remember the slogan of the whole WH universe? "In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war." And with such optimistic setting and since the whole game and lore were intended from the beginning to be as over the top as people could take (and it seems people can take A LOT), you'll get skulls and gore and gruesome deaths everywhere you look.
But if you want to stay more in character while playing a 40k game, perhaps this will help a bit:
-It is to be death!
What is it to be death?
-It is to be the destroyer, the end of all things.
What is it to end life?
-It is an honour, to be the executioners of the Emperor. [...]
In a nutshell, you have the most OTT fictional universe ever, intentionally set in a hopeless future of mankind, where you lead armies or play as a soldier, and the most brutal death awaits you and your fellow soldiers. If not today, then tomorrow. Skulls and gore in 40k are what grass and trees are to you during your Sunday walk in a park.
BFG: Armada had a very interesting campaign. Mostly Nobledark in both of them, I enjoy them all! Armada 1's Campaign and 2's Malos Vrykan are the best imo. I really liked Malos' rise to power, that was very satisfying.
Thank you, but what you wrote is 5% logic and 95% pure rubbish. Thank you for reminding me of something with those 5%. See, what you wrote I don't see as badass or anything, I see it as simply stupid crap. Klingons they are not, simply some 15y old's skulls, spikes and BADAZZ! Pointless.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And if you played things like BloodBowl you would know what I am talking about, on it being a bit campy and silly.
Fun fact, Warcraft was Originally designed to be a Warhammer Fantasy Game, but GW refused to give Blizzard the IP rights, so they make up their own lore and used the same models, LOL, bet GW is Kicking themselves in the ass over that, still to this day.
Anyway, so in response their critics and in true British dry humor, they made 40K to go as dark and brutal as they could go, hence the "In the Grim Darkens of the Future there is Only War"
So this was a bit of shock to me to learn about, but it did seem fitting all things said and done, at how just insanely hostile and dark the world was. They keep revising the lore, and the stories and what have you, because their goal is to sell a product, mainly sell miniatures, so as far as WH40K goes, they keep revising things, and changing things to keep players buying more plastic mini's to keep their profits up, they are after all, a publicly traded company and have been so before gaming went mainstream. So the lore they churn out is not about making sense, it about justifying selling you a 150 dollar box of true scale primarch marines, after you have already bought 12 boxes at 50 dollars a box, of normal marines over the past 5 years to complete your 1200 point army, and everything they do, is designed to move things to that end.
For me, I kinda walked a bit away from the lore, it's more a background thing to me, I would go so far as to say, akin to a humorous space filler, but still love the art, miniatures, and the like, I loved the DoW series, and own them all, hell I even put in 3K hours into Eternal Crusade because I loved the feel of how they set the game up where I felt like I was playing as a space marine on the battlefield in a table stop game, right down to the getting riddled with bolter fire. To bad the game is dead in the water, and full of cheaters because it's in maintenance mode at this point, and no one at bEhavor cares about it anymore.
But I guess it depends on what you want, I hear they just brought back Squats, can't wait to see a Video game with them in it, that would be epic.
To answer few other things. If it were a new IP to me, I probably would never even look at it. I don't like faux BADAZZ, just feels hollow to me and the entire setting...doesn't offer anything special to me. But that's about 40k, besides games and such, I already don't care about it that much. Fantasy though? That's a much more nuanced thing. I generally like Dark Fantasy, but Warhammer is just lowborn, too samey same.
Indeed, but when you hear Warhammer fanboys, you know...you know. What's this about transformative experiences and guilty pleasures?
I mean, it's no surprise that I love things like Vermintide, like Armada, like Dawn of War. Point is, would I like them in another IP better?
Be what may. I am not certain I can just cut ties and even if I could, I do not know how. Ignore all those good, fun games? What is this?
And I'd love to paint a Lunar or Hades or what have you. But something tells me I should start slower.
I'm ok with people nerding out over their guilty pleasures.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That's not me. Besides, it's just Justin Bieber of IPs, not much to it. I'll always take good, fun games though.
What to do, what to do? Choices, choices!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Fantasy was designed around large battles and formations, dating to the very popular wargames of that time, while 40K was built around smaller skirmish style table top play.
Very, very, different feels when you played them.
As for why people accept the Grim Dark setting, well the irony is, the players wanted it. GW made 40K just to make a Grim Dark game to placate their players that wanted a more dark and brutal setting.
In fact GW even admitted that they expected it to fail for being too over the top and campy about it, but, to their own surprise, it exploded in success, players loved the insane dark setting, for some reason or another.
I wager a lot of what carried it, was that Comic Books (Like Judge Dredd, Watchmen, Spawn, etc) at that time were also putting out a lot of Dark Noir/Grim Dark kind of settings, as well as movies like Hellraiser also being released when WH40K hit the shelves, so, it just resonated with that generation of gamers at that time, and shot to stardom.