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Camelot Unchained Releases Their Latest Newsletter - 'Back on Track with a 90 Day Plan' | MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,926
    Honestly, y'all are beyond ridiculous. Complaining that there's concept art is a newsletter about developing a game. How do you think this works? Do you think the first month of development involves concept art and then they fire the art team after that?

    You can literally play every weekend and the game has been growing in leaps. The giant races already grow; their reference to Fir Bogs was just that that particular giant race hasn't been made playable yet. If you're not happy with screenshots of the Verdant Forest, you can literally just visit the Twitch channel and watch Mark run around in it during a weekend test (which happens literally every weekend) where you'll see him come across other testers running around in it.

    None of this is hidden from you, but you'd all rather just hop in threads here to quickly accuse Mark Jacobs of using CU as a scam to collect babies to make hamburgers out of or some other evil scheme without having the foggiest idea of what is actually going on with the game's development.

    There seems to be this group of people who exist for the sole purpose of buying into MMO betas just so they can see that the game's not finish and then smear it all over the internet.
    Around here there's a generic burn-out about crowdfunded MMOs in general influenced by prominent disasters such as Shroud of the Avatar, The Repopulation, Chronicles of Elyria and others.

    It's to the point now where scams are assumed unless there's concrete, definitive proof otherwise.

    I personally think that CU gets lumped in with the bad apples too much over here despite its many missteps, but then that might just be me clinging to hope that a game I really, really want to play gets released in my lifetime... and as 71 yr old, the possibility of death before CU becomes more real every day :)
    Torvalfrancis_baudSovrathKylerantzervoTacticalZombehGdemami
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited March 1
    Rhoklaw said:
    Rhoklaw said:







    he has to be in the office to use the sole computer that has access to the refund information, 
    That's not how computers or financial systems work. Try again.
    If I understood correctly in the office there's an overly GDPR-compliant computer that is not connected to internet that stocks all the information about the backers and their transactions, so he goes to the office to use this computer to refund the backers.

    Now could he bring this computer home? I don't know.
    Post edited by francis_baud on
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,240
    edited March 1
    Rhoklaw said:
    Rhoklaw said:







    he has to be in the office to use the sole computer that has access to the refund information, 
    That's not how computers or financial systems work. Try again.
    If I understood correctly in the office there's an overly GDPR-compliant computer that is not connected to internet that stocks all the information about the backers and their transactions, so he goes to the office to use this computer to refund the backers.

    Now could he bring this computer home? I don't know.
    He could, but doesn't want to risk the chance of it being damaged or stolen.

    He did say if the Covid-19 situation didn't improve after the first of the year he would have to reevaluate other options.

    Here it is March already and the only change was he took a few Sundays off and didn't process any in the last few weeks of Feb.

    Like I said earlier, until he gets them caught up it's probably best not to tout them as a positive.




    francis_baudtzervoGdemami

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,884
    Kyleran said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Rhoklaw said:







    he has to be in the office to use the sole computer that has access to the refund information, 
    That's not how computers or financial systems work. Try again.
    If I understood correctly in the office there's an overly GDPR-compliant computer that is not connected to internet that stocks all the information about the backers and their transactions, so he goes to the office to use this computer to refund the backers.

    Now could he bring this computer home? I don't know.
    He could, but doesn't want to risk the chance of it being damaged or stolen.

    He did say if the Covid-19 situation didn't improve after the first of the year he would have to reevaluate other options.

    Here it is March already and the only change was he took a few Sundays off and didn't process any in the last few weeks of Feb.

    Like I said earlier, until he gets them caught up it's probably best not to tout them as a positive.




    Perhaps since he is taking this GDPR compliance to such an extreme he should go the next step.  His office computer could always be stolen... he should commit all transaction data to memory.

    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,240
    Kyleran said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Rhoklaw said:







    he has to be in the office to use the sole computer that has access to the refund information, 
    That's not how computers or financial systems work. Try again.
    If I understood correctly in the office there's an overly GDPR-compliant computer that is not connected to internet that stocks all the information about the backers and their transactions, so he goes to the office to use this computer to refund the backers.

    Now could he bring this computer home? I don't know.
    He could, but doesn't want to risk the chance of it being damaged or stolen.

    He did say if the Covid-19 situation didn't improve after the first of the year he would have to reevaluate other options.

    Here it is March already and the only change was he took a few Sundays off and didn't process any in the last few weeks of Feb.

    Like I said earlier, until he gets them caught up it's probably best not to tout them as a positive.




    Perhaps since he is taking this GDPR compliance to such an extreme he should go the next step.  His office computer could always be stolen... he should commit all transaction data to memory.

    Or what if this were to happen?

    Yeah, I know, game over.  ;)


    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,647
    edited March 2
    1) I've rarely seen Mark being very snarky/snide/unprofessional/downright rude but I guess it happened. If someone gets harassed by the same person over and over again, at some point I guess it's "the straw that broke the camel's back". I do not condone this kind of remarks but I can understand why it happens. Yet I believe 99.8% of his communications are very respectful so it's not a big deal either.
    Plenty of snide/rude remarks here: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and I am pretty sure I could find more if I went further back. And I hear from people here that he was the same in mmorpg.com before boycotting it.

    Not all the people he responded to rudely were offensive, and some had every right to be angry. Plus: what random internet dudes say is irrelevant, they can afford to troll, be rude/snide, lie etc. That does not mean I condone it, quite the opposite. But he is the professional studio lead and I hold him up to a different standard. And he is the one with everything to lose by getting in such fights, the anonymous internet randos don't. If he cannot be civil and professional, he should hire someone that can.
    Gdemami
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,647
    One of the advantages of an NDA is that the studio doesn't have to constantly polish each new test map, to a point where it's visually on-par with modern MMO games, before releasing them. They can create simple and functional maps that testers will use to find bugs and provide feedback. In the same way, all the animations, models, systems, etc. can be released and tested earlier, before they're polished, as no screenshots or videos distribution is allowed.
    Then why is it marked as beta for more than two years now if it is not at the polishing/bugfixing stage?
    Gdemami
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited March 2
    tzervo said:
    1) I've rarely seen Mark being very snarky/snide/unprofessional/downright rude but I guess it happened. If someone gets harassed by the same person over and over again, at some point I guess it's "the straw that broke the camel's back". I do not condone this kind of remarks but I can understand why it happens. Yet I believe 99.8% of his communications are very respectful so it's not a big deal either.
    Plenty of snide/rude remarks here: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 and I am pretty sure I could find more if I went further back. And I hear from people here that he was the same in mmorpg.com before boycotting it.

    Not all the people he responded to rudely were offensive, and some had every right to be angry. Plus: what random internet dudes say is irrelevant, they can afford to troll, be rude/snide, lie etc. That does not mean I condone it, quite the opposite. But he is the professional studio lead and I hold him up to a different standard. And he is the one with everything to lose by getting in such fights, the anonymous internet randos don't. If he cannot be civil and professional, he should hire someone that can.
    I went through the comments in the first link you've provided and the worst I've found is : 
    • "I told you months ago that I was going to ignore you here, just as I had to do so on the Forums due to the type of behavior you engaged it."
    • "Any further responses to me will be dutifully ignored."
      "[...]
    • "[...]but as other threads have shown, things quickly devolve to folks purposively saying things/asking questions/going into attack mode about things I’ve answered again and again. Or worse, people saying things that are simply not true."

    Basically nothing really snide.

    I'm not skimming through all those pages though, so if you wish, do quote some of the snide replies you claim exist and we'll review them here. And as I've mentioned, it may happen that infrequently someone gets frustrated and type a rude reply, nobody is perfect.

    As you say, he is the head of the studio and therefore the person who gets most pressure on his shoulders, so getting somewhat impatient in rare occasions with people who try to push him to the limit is just normal imo.


    Gdemami
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    tzervo said:
    One of the advantages of an NDA is that the studio doesn't have to constantly polish each new test map, to a point where it's visually on-par with modern MMO games, before releasing them. They can create simple and functional maps that testers will use to find bugs and provide feedback. In the same way, all the animations, models, systems, etc. can be released and tested earlier, before they're polished, as no screenshots or videos distribution is allowed.
    Then why is it marked as beta for more than two years now if it is not at the polishing/bugfixing stage?
    There are three phases of Beta for CU. Possibly that Beta 3 will be feature complete and polishing will start at that time, but I don't know. As for the bug fixing and optimization, they're are continually working on that front.
    Gdemami
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 23,226
    edited March 2
    Quizzical said:
    90 day plan...

    OK. I believe it THIS time!
    I don't see why you're so skeptical.  I find it very plausible that they could do what they're promising within 90 days.  The plan is pretty modest.  It's not like they're promising a launch within 90 days.
    You may be unaware that this is not his first 90 day plan :)

    If Caspian released a 90 day plan promising to write a blog post at some point in the next 90 days, I'd believe him, and he's surely far worse about failing to deliver than Mark Jacobs is.  Modest promises are far more plausible than grandiose ones.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,884
    Quizzical said:
    Quizzical said:
    90 day plan...

    OK. I believe it THIS time!
    I don't see why you're so skeptical.  I find it very plausible that they could do what they're promising within 90 days.  The plan is pretty modest.  It's not like they're promising a launch within 90 days.
    You may be unaware that this is not his first 90 day plan :)

    If Caspian released a 90 day plan promising to write a blog post at some point in the next 90 days, I'd believe him, and he's surely far worse about failing to deliver than Mark Jacobs is.  Modest promises are far more plausible than grandiose ones.
    Funny you should use that example...
    Caspian literally said he was working on a post to describe progress on his 0.5 release in November 2018.  Then in Dec said he was just going to finish it over the holiday.  Then in Jan said he was just waiting for media from the team... and it was finally posted March 8th...
    Now technically he didn't PROMISE to do it in 90 days... but it did take him 4 months to do it :)


    With all these guys now... I'm at the point where they need to win back some credibility.  If they told me that rain was wet I'd want to go double check.

    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,647
    edited March 2

    I'm not skimming through all those pages though, so if you wish, do quote some of the snide replies you claim exist and we'll review them here.
    Enjoy your morning DK, I’m sure your probably really proud of how you nailed me with the same old lies as well as some new lies. And what, you were bored this morning so you’re really going after me/reputation personally ? Charming DK, just charming.
    You bitched and moaned ed at me during the KS here, and are doing the same again, just with more vitriol. While I may be doing the same thing as I was then, at least I can say that I’m trying to do something productive, special, and hopefully unique. You, on the other hand, are just being a troll at this point. And like I used to say back in the Dark Age dev days:
    Have a cookie, trolls like cookies!
    ——
    Too bad I was up at 1am. Spoiled your chance to shitpost here without a response from me or complain that I should be working during the day and not responding to you .
    I hope you’re getting paid to do this, at least part of my job is to talk to the community. You spend a lot of your time shitposting me, other games, and anybody who dares to question SC. At least I’m making two game and an engine. What are you contributing to the world OC?
    Oh yeah, I almost forgot, you’re WKing SC, attacking anybody who disagrees with on their threads and me/CU here.
    Yeah, big accomplishment. You must be so proud.

    among others. I posted links, I posted quotes, not gonna do all the work for you, sorry, I already did enough. Even the one you mention falls under the "unprofessional" category in my book. This poster repeats that they did not receive their refunds for a year now. Persistently and to the point of obsession. It is still something that exposes an issue with MJ's promises. He cannot go around flaunting that he ignores her. At best he should actually ignore her (i.e. without saying a damn word), because, surprise, he IS a year back in paying refunds.

    Him getting impatient is not an excuse like you present it to be. If he cannot handle the heat, he should hire someone to handle it for him.

    francis_baudGdemami
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,647

    With all these guys now... I'm at the point where they need to win back some credibility.  If they told me that rain was wet I'd want to go double check.
    We make such kinds of jokes with politicians in my country: "If I want to know the weather I ask politician SomeNameHere. If they say it is going to be sunny I take my umbrella."  :p
    Slapshot1188
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,647
    edited March 2
    tzervo said:
    Then why is it marked as beta for more than two years now if it is not at the polishing/bugfixing stage?
    There are three phases of Beta for CU. Possibly that Beta 3 will be feature complete and polishing will start at that time, but I don't know. As for the bug fixing and optimization, they're are continually working on that front.
    Two and a half years beta. 3 phases, old school beta etc. I call that BS and word weaseling on CSE's part for PR purposes.

    On the other hand, I am not a backer so he has absolutely no obligation towards me and I am not mad or anything. Just making some observations/assessments as a potential buyer on release (???).

    :)
    Gdemami
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 6,031
    I am not defending Mark, but, having people piss all over something you spent years of your life and a shit ton of your own money into... well lets just say, if I was ever in Mark's shoes, my circle would be small, and I would hire a PR person to deal with the masses, as there is no way I would have the restraint.
    tzervofrancis_baudGdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,884
    tzervo said:
    tzervo said:
    Then why is it marked as beta for more than two years now if it is not at the polishing/bugfixing stage?
    There are three phases of Beta for CU. Possibly that Beta 3 will be feature complete and polishing will start at that time, but I don't know. As for the bug fixing and optimization, they're are continually working on that front.
    Two and a half years beta. 3 phases, old school beta etc. I call that BS and word weaseling on CSE's part for PR purposes.

    On the other hand, I am not a backer so he has absolutely no obligation towards me and I am not mad or anything. Just making some observations/assessments as a potential buyer on release (???).

    :)
    Yeah I generally give MJ a pass based on the refund policy.  If you get frustrated with the never ending delays you can get your money back.   The year long backlog of those refunds is starting to make me question that though.


    And yes... I am and have been a backer since day 1.   
    tzervofrancis_baudGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    tzervo said:

    I'm not skimming through all those pages though, so if you wish, do quote some of the snide replies you claim exist and we'll review them here.
    Enjoy your morning DK, I’m sure your probably really proud of how you nailed me with the same old lies as well as some new lies. And what, you were bored this morning so you’re really going after me/reputation personally ? Charming DK, just charming.
    You bitched and moaned ed at me during the KS here, and are doing the same again, just with more vitriol. While I may be doing the same thing as I was then, at least I can say that I’m trying to do something productive, special, and hopefully unique. You, on the other hand, are just being a troll at this point. And like I used to say back in the Dark Age dev days:
    Have a cookie, trolls like cookies!
    ——
    Too bad I was up at 1am. Spoiled your chance to shitpost here without a response from me or complain that I should be working during the day and not responding to you .
    I hope you’re getting paid to do this, at least part of my job is to talk to the community. You spend a lot of your time shitposting me, other games, and anybody who dares to question SC. At least I’m making two game and an engine. What are you contributing to the world OC?
    Oh yeah, I almost forgot, you’re WKing SC, attacking anybody who disagrees with on their threads and me/CU here.
    Yeah, big accomplishment. You must be so proud.

    among others. I posted links, I posted quotes, not gonna do all the work for you, sorry, I already did enough. Even the one you mention falls under the "unprofessional" category in my book. This poster repeats that they did not receive their refunds for a year now. Persistently and to the point of obsession. It is still something that exposes an issue with MJ's promises. He cannot go around flaunting that he ignores her. At best he should actually ignore her (i.e. without saying a damn word), because, surprise, he IS a year back in paying refunds.

    Him getting impatient is not an excuse like you present it to be. If he cannot handle the heat, he should hire someone to handle it for him.

    Thank you for taking the time to find those quotes. So if it's the worst you've found, I'd say it's not really noteworthy. Basically he's being impatient with a MOP user who regularly ridicules CSE and their work.

    Should the head of a studio always be totally politically correct, not let any emotions show, be tolerant with the people who harass, threaten and personally attack him/his studio?

    I think I prefer someone who has a strong personality, who says what he thinks, over a PR person whose messages are meticulously tailored to please all of the audience, even though they're neither genuine or authentic.
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,429
    If we're going to speak ill of people(MJ) can we at least compare some facts so we save our energy for the right targets?

    @Kyleran said that CSE filed PPP for 38 employees which means they have 38 full or part time employees. I'm no economist or accountant but I really doubt MJ would keep 38 employees on payroll if stuff wasn't being worked on in some way. Whether that is Ragnarok, CU or the server who knows..

    1. They have not done extra public funding 'rounds' like COE, SoL & AoC did/do.

    2. They built their own server.

    3. They don't care about PR.

    All three of those set this game apart from the others and here's why...

    1. The responsibility is now 100% on them to deliver something to make more money which is good for us. The need for them to make more money after some kind of release or beta means maximum effort will be put into making a good product.

    2. Building your own server is an accomplishment in itself even if was by tricking people for the funds lol

    3. Not caring about pr means those resources can be put to better use elsewhere into something possibly more productive than bullshitting people. Also.. caring so little about pr means you give no fuks about what people think which means whatever games that are being made will be made with little or no public input at all which IMO is how it should be.
    Ungood
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,647
    edited March 2
    Thank you for taking the time to find those quotes. So if it's the worst you've found, I'd say it's not really noteworthy. Basically he's being impatient with a MOP user who regularly ridicules CSE and their work.

    Should the head of a studio always be totally politically correct, not let any emotions show, be tolerant with the people who harass, threaten and personally attack him/his studio?

    I think I prefer someone who has a strong personality, who says what he thinks, over a PR person whose messages are meticulously tailored to please all of the audience, even though they're neither genuine or authentic.
    You do you. It's not a rare occurrence. Not everyone he insulted attacked or insulted the studio. I do not approve it.
    Gdemami
  • tzervotzervo Member EpicPosts: 1,647
    edited March 2
    Ungood said:
    I am not defending Mark, but, having people piss all over something you spent years of your life and a shit ton of your own money into... well lets just say, if I was ever in Mark's shoes, my circle would be small, and I would hire a PR person to deal with the masses, as there is no way I would have the restraint.
    Yep. I am not defending the other side. Gamers' horrible display of entitlement and pissing over other people's effort is unforgivable. I absolutely detest that. That still does not excuse MJ for acting unprofessionally and rudely. He should definitely hire a PR person for that.

    And in this case, he gave lots of ammo to the other side: that other game and the refunds delay. Those make it a bit harder for me to sympathize with him.
    francis_baudGdemamiUngood
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited March 2
    tzervo said:
    Thank you for taking the time to find those quotes. So if it's the worst you've found, I'd say it's not really noteworthy. Basically he's being impatient with a MOP user who regularly ridicules CSE and their work.

    Should the head of a studio always be totally politically correct, not let any emotions show, be tolerant with the people who harass, threaten and personally attack him/his studio?

    I think I prefer someone who has a strong personality, who says what he thinks, over a PR person whose messages are meticulously tailored to please all of the audience, even though they're neither genuine or authentic.
    You do you. It's not a rare occurrence. Not everyone he insulted attacked or insulted the studio. I do not approve it.
    It's rare occurrence if we take the overall picture (all of his messages on MOP, forums, reddit, live streams, etc.), the portion where he shows some impatience, as I said earlier, may be 0.2% of the time, which is very little and mostly insignificant. And he shows this impatience in response to harassment, insults or untrue claims, which is normal I think if it happens rarely.

    I want the head of the studio to be human and display emotions, I don't want a sanitized, robot style PR person. He says what he thinks, in a frank but overwhelmingly respectful manner, and that's what matters to me.
  • AragoniAragoni Member UncommonPosts: 383
    As I've written before I am amazed that I've waited for this game longer than I waited for Darkfall Online (Forumfall I miss you).
    I do believe that the game is coming out, and I also believe that it will be the success that CSE deserves. Games like Valheim just shows that if the building system is advanced enough people will just go crazy over it. I'm not sure how people will take that their elaborate buildings that took weeks of collective effort to build will be torn down by catapults though.

    I do however wish that they'd livestream their beta-client, just to show non-backers what they have achieved so far. I can't really blame non-backers for laughing at years and years of newsletters when there's barely any gameplay shown, and when the game was supposed to have been released years ago.

    Oh well. Back to Albion Online.
    francis_baud
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