Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Wow, this was some great lip service, but, this is not the way it works. You do not get to cry about "greedy game companies" when you are out there banging your drum that Bobby deserves his 30 million paycheck.
See, you're out here on these forums telling everyone that Bobby should get 30 Million Dollars, that this is justified, all that is right and good in the world, that he is being paid such and amount, and that you would pay him even more, you do NOT then out of the same breath and same topic get to try and fuss about the "Greedy Game Company" when you are defending the very person at the top of it.
Spare me.. now go off and start dumping your money into the greedy system that you support.
Every game company is greedy considering they charge way more than their product cost to make and is actually worth... If I were to stop giving money to greedy companies then I'd have zero games to play...
You seem to be fixated on Kotick for some strange reason but like I said in a previous post his pay isn't really high when you compare...
Blizz avg employee pay - 93k
Kotick 30 mil
Wal-Mart avg pay - 54k
Ceo pay 24 mil
EA Avg pay 80k
CEO 21 mil
Kroger avg pay - 66k
CEO 21 mil
There are more examples where the lowest employee pay compared to CEO difference is much more than the lowest at Blizz which is 59k and EA 42k. When you consider the difference in lowest pay at Blizz vs EA which is 17k then does it justify the increase pay for Kotick over whoever the EA CEO is? I think it does seeing as that it's almost a whole year of pay for employees getting paid the least at places like Kroger(19k) & Wal-Mart(20k).
Another thing to point out is that 30 mil even as a pay out for billion dollar companies isn't outrageous. Do you know that a previous 'president' of Disney who wasn't even the CEO was given 140 mil on his way out back in the 90's? Do the math on how much 140mil in the 90's would be worth now and Kotick getting 30 mil a year for coming up with new ways to effectively fleece gamers with things like Virtual BlizzCon is probably money well spent to everyone at Blizz/Acti approving of his salary.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You must watch the board warrior stamina bar. I put all my points there.
Plus, you aggro'd the entire spawn.
That aside, I enjoy your posts and hope that all of us can harmoniously go back to doing what we do best: Roasting game developer's latest efforts to appease our bitter tears.
Luckily this forum has a cash shop where you can get your stamina bar replenished..........
Sovrath said: I think you need to get it straight. In no way did I say he "needs" his 30 million. I did say he has the right to negotiate the compensation that he wants and the company has the righ to say yes, no or "here take this."
And I highly doubt you have ever seen me cry about cash shops. My stance has always been "if you want to spend money go ahead, if you don't want to spend money that's your right. If there is no way to play the game without spending extra money then that's your decision."
So following that, my stance has always been it's the players, companies, CEO's choices and you they can say yes or no.
It's about your choice. Choice to do it or walk away.
Cool, We have an Accord than.
Also, just gonna put this out, I see you complaining about a companies Predatory antics, I will be glad to remind you that Bobby needs his 30 Million Paycheck, and you support that.
Dude, I've been on this site, I think since 2004. I have enough posts for most people to have seen them.
I would bet very good money that there is not one person on this site who has ever seen a post of my complaining about cash shops, predatory practices, or anything even remotely related. My stance has always been that it's a person's choice to ...
Give to Kickstarters Use lootboxes spend on cash shops
As long as they know what they are doing. Which they should as I've had large discussions with people where I assert that if they give to a kickstarter then that's on them.
It's ALWAYS on them.
I also expect, given your response up there, that you will never play a video game if the upper level management makes millions as they don't deserve it right?
LOL, My issue is with hypocrisy. Where people defend a CEO raking in millions and then cry and complain about how they go about earning that money with predatory systems in MMO's.
If you support the predatory system from top to bottom, then you have my respect of at least having your shit straight.
I had my shit straight for a long time now.
Why wouldn't people have contrasting views of the two.
The merit of a CEO's salary and the appropriateness of cash shops are two entirely different issues with no connection whatsoever. Accordingly, how one feels about one has absolutely no bearing on how that person feels of the other.
Your straight is pretty crooked on these issues.
Did you really just say these two things back to back?
I'll just hold your hand as I explain to you where paychecks come from, As long as he getting a direct paycheck from the company, then his paycheck is directly generated by the sale of product.
Now that should not be a shock to anyone, as that bit of info is like High School Economics where you should have been taught "Where does your paycheck come from" and everyone should know how that one works by the time they get their first job.
Given how some people act, it is apparent they missed that class.
I know guys working on site that failed high school that fully grasp how the system works, because they are very vested into knowing where their paycheck comes from.
Some of them call it the cycle of money, I always found that hilarious to be honest.
But at the end of the day, in case you were never taught this, everyone in the company from the top to the bottom gets paid from the same source, and that is from the sale of the product.
Now, in case that was too many words, let me say it easy:
How the company goes about getting the revenue to pay his salary is directly linked to their monetization system of their product.
That, is something we all should have known at a very early age in our development.
I didn't say them side to side.
There is no reason for bells to go off. Two separate issues remain so no matter how hard or often you try to jam them together.
Yet another attempt won't make it happen this time any more than the preceding ones.
And no joke, legit, after reading what you have said, about not realizing how unabashed greed affects the monetization system of a product.
I'll admit that the connection there seems to me a bit tenuous.
To call the CEOs paycheck greed means we'd need to establish that she didn't earn it. Not paying a gal 30 million per month, when she is worth it, would also be greedy.
LOL, lets play with this a bit.
The richest man in the world, Elon Musk, valued at 197 Billion Dollars, received $23,000 a year in TOTAL compensations from his company. To grasp that, that includes things like a company car, bonus, all of that combined, was 23,000 dollars, not million, 23 thousand, and that is his fixed salary, he gets absolutely nothing else on the company dime. All His vaunted wealth is all from Stock in the company that he runs.
Richest Man in the World, Salary+Compensation 23 thousand, company worth, 800 Billion.
The Second Richest Man in the World, Jeff Bezos, valued at 188 billion, is paid a salary of 81,000 and received a total compensation package from his company of 1.6 million. His vaunted wealth is all from the stocks he owns in the company he runs.
Second Richest man in the World, Salary+Compensation 1.6 million, company worth 1.7 trillion.
Those guys are kind of over the top, lets not use them. Lets use more Human CEO's.
Like say,
Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft, Salary+Compensation 44 Million, Company worth, 1 Trillion.
Kim Taek-Jin CEO of NcSoft, Salary+Compensation 11 Million, Company worth 204 Billion USD.
Now lets have a look at Bobby Kotick, Salary+Compensation 31 million, company worth 12 billion.
Now, I could be alone in this.. but I don't think Bobby Kotick is worth 18 times what Bezo's is getting, or even 3 times what Kim is getting.. but.. hey.. that is just me. I could be wrong.
Mr. Ungood, you are conflating apples and oranges.
The compensation of Bezos within Amazon and Musk within Tesla+ is set by these same men. There's no point to give themselves millions in dollars when it'll just show lower profits and thus their company will look worse. Albeit a few million in a trillion or billion dollar company is nothing.
Also, you can't compare bezos/musk to kotick. Furthermore, the worth of the company doesn't necessarily mean the profits are amazing either. Gamestop's worth was apparently rather high a few weeks back, their profits are trash.
You still haven't made a bridge between how a company makes money and how that company chooses to pay a CEO are linked. I justify CEO salaries just purely based on the numbers. I also justify athlete salaries based on the numbers too. I don't justify their salaries on what they do or don't do. That doesn't even make sense.
It's why people are always shocked that my salary is "low" when i tell them i have to wake up in the middle of the night to resuscitate 3 lb babies and the dermatologist is giving botox all day for 5x what i make for half the work and 1% of the stress. It is because what you do or how you bring in the money isn't linked to what you get paid, it is the numbers that count.
Anyway, I think you're incorrect in your logic. To summarize my stance, capitalism is the system we have, there are unwritten rules that are at play, based on that, I think CEO's salaries are justified given the money that's involved. I also think there is a ton of greed in the system and that is a problem. The problem I have is when the company screws the customer over for every last drop or like in health care, where the insurance companies' screw people over left and right. I hate it. But knowing the money that is flying around, I'm fine with paying a CEO in the tens of millions of dollars. I'm not talking about their ethics and how their shitty company makes money, because it has nothing to do with how i feel they are compensated.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I think Elon Musk get stock bonus in the billions. So...
I think it is a 2 fold question. I personally wouldn't mind paying CEO's billions of dollar "if" they can increase the stock price. So I dont' know why all these leftist call CEO greedy. I am an investor, and I don't mind paying the CEO so...
For example, in 1980, I bought computer systems for Motorola. A 300 mb disk was the size of a washing machine and cost $15,000 in 1980 dollars. Today, you can buy 10 times that much for $100.
1 TB SSD for $100 in 2021.
That's 3500x the storage capacity, and a 500% increase in Speed. Both quantitatively and qualitatively superior for a FRACTION of the cost to meet extraordinarily higher demands while delivering excellent performance.
Did you get the same results from your College Education, Health Services Providers, Real Estate Purchase, 401k? That's where the inflation is.
I also think there is a ton of greed in the system and that is a problem. The problem I have is when the company screws the customer over for every last drop or like in health care, where the insurance companies' screw people over left and right. I hate it. But knowing the money that is flying around, I'm fine with paying a CEO in the tens of millions of dollars. I'm not talking about their ethics and how their shitty company makes money, because it has nothing to do with how i feel they are compensated.
Capitalism is greed. The seller seeks to maximize profits, the buyer to maximize the value of each dollar spent. It is this collective pursuit of self-interest that drives the most successful economies and provides the highest overall standard of living.
However, like everything else, it's not perfect. It is the least flawed.
As a Canadian I have a fair deal of experience with a health care system isolated from market forces. At face value it sounds great. Who wouldn't like a system where one's health isn't reliant on one's wealth.
There are many benefits to that system, but it's not perfect.
Our demand for medical services exceeds the supply. As the profitability of those services is constrained less are offered than is optimal.
This has led to waiting lists for many medical services not of immediate peril. In conditions associated with pain those afflicted may have to deal with that discomfort for a considerable period of time. For the rich this is less of a problem as they can simply pay for what they need in the U.S. and bypass that wait. For the rest, sucks to be us.
Inefficiencies often get out of check. Numerous provinces have had periods of time where the hospital rooms available were far short of those needed. Patients overflowed into the hallways the associated discomfort for days on end until it was their turn to have room space open up. I'm not talking about pandemic conditions here. This was the "business as usual" state they had fallen to.
The retention of trained medical professionals is an issue. The pasture is greener south of the border and many choose to graze there. My own province is jumping through hoops to lure and retain nurses here.
Our health care system comes with an increased tax burden. The rich pay for the medical needs of the poor. This is of course an economic misallocation of resources. Canadians generally view the social benefit worth that cost, so there is little in the way of complaint from most but it remains a factor that must be acknowledged.
So, our health care rose garden comes with plenty of thorns. This should be kept in mind by those advocating for it elsewhere, such as happens in the U.S. occasionally.
This post is all kinds of wrong. So much misinformation. For one, more people are playing than ever. Inflation isn't an issue over such a short period of time especially when the costs of running a server has gone down and wages haven't really gone up. There are more people playing games than ever before and its become cheaper to host them all.
The only issue we are seeing today is people are cheap. And rightly so, but sadly its ruining the entire MMORPG genre as people want F2P games which are actually super expensive if you want them to be fair.
Bad post. OP has no idea what they are speaking of.
The $25 dollar /month price tag hasn't kept up with the inflation rates seen in other entertainment forms. A movie ticket cost roughly $5 in 1999; today that is closer to $15. So, it should be around $45/month to keep up. Games companies might be able to run at $15/month, but professional investors see this a major problem.
Thats some laughable logic there. Two entirely different industries. The price of Pop/Soda hasn't increased as much. The cost of paper hasn't. Lots of things became cheaper. Your logic is super flawed and frankly hilarious. Its a false comparison.
Fact is, games are cheaper to make. Wages haven't really gone up. Hosting MMO's is cheaper than ever (but still pricey). There are more and more players than ever before. So you sell more but still put the same amount of work in.
Inflation costs to operate matter differently from game to game. Ok so i'll make an example of Blizzard and why i despise their obvious greed so much.
So over 4 years back when they had 10 million plus TOTAL operating costs were 200 million.
So simple math,let's average that at 50 million a year. Ok more simple math let's just use the lower end of that era ..10 millionx15 sub fee and you have 150 million per MONTH !!!
Do you need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out that Blizzard is making off liek bandits and showing a lot of greed?
I have mentioned in the past that expansions should be FREE AND a heck of a lot better since the sub fees have more than covered the cost and then much more.So i also mentioned Blizzard being too cheap to add housing,millions and millions later and still no housing.
Know the WHY?Dumbasses not complaining,paying a developer to give them a HALF ASSED effort so because Blizzard can get away with it..they do. This is also why i despise all the lame ass white knights that like to come and protect their beloved game,it just tells me they have no clue what is going on around them.
Of course it changes game to game but in this example,Blizzard is giving a half assed effort and double dipping on price by charging both sub fees and costs for expansions.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Using the same example,what was Blizzard's..."WOW" peak,16 million players? has Wow ever looked like a game that make billions of dollars?Most competent developers could make 100 AAA games with that kind of money,Blizzard can't even make one.
Now we have Diablo mobile coming in,my god VERY little cost to operate,imagine how many millions plus cash shop?The game will look and play like a cheap Indie game since ALL diablo games do and they will make off with millions.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
.........
... Yah.. I give the fuck up.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Luckily this forum has a cash shop where you can get your stamina bar replenished..........
I didn't say them side to side.
There is no reason for bells to go off. Two separate issues remain so no matter how hard or often you try to jam them together.
Yet another attempt won't make it happen this time any more than the preceding ones.
The compensation of Bezos within Amazon and Musk within Tesla+ is set by these same men. There's no point to give themselves millions in dollars when it'll just show lower profits and thus their company will look worse. Albeit a few million in a trillion or billion dollar company is nothing.
Also, you can't compare bezos/musk to kotick. Furthermore, the worth of the company doesn't necessarily mean the profits are amazing either. Gamestop's worth was apparently rather high a few weeks back, their profits are trash.
You still haven't made a bridge between how a company makes money and how that company chooses to pay a CEO are linked. I justify CEO salaries just purely based on the numbers. I also justify athlete salaries based on the numbers too. I don't justify their salaries on what they do or don't do. That doesn't even make sense.
It's why people are always shocked that my salary is "low" when i tell them i have to wake up in the middle of the night to resuscitate 3 lb babies and the dermatologist is giving botox all day for 5x what i make for half the work and 1% of the stress. It is because what you do or how you bring in the money isn't linked to what you get paid, it is the numbers that count.
Anyway, I think you're incorrect in your logic. To summarize my stance, capitalism is the system we have, there are unwritten rules that are at play, based on that, I think CEO's salaries are justified given the money that's involved. I also think there is a ton of greed in the system and that is a problem. The problem I have is when the company screws the customer over for every last drop or like in health care, where the insurance companies' screw people over left and right. I hate it. But knowing the money that is flying around, I'm fine with paying a CEO in the tens of millions of dollars. I'm not talking about their ethics and how their shitty company makes money, because it has nothing to do with how i feel they are compensated.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Perfect to everyone? Yes, that is too much to ask.
I think it is a 2 fold question. I personally wouldn't mind paying CEO's billions of dollar "if" they can increase the stock price. So I dont' know why all these leftist call CEO greedy. I am an investor, and I don't mind paying the CEO so...
Capitalism is greed. The seller seeks to maximize profits, the buyer to maximize the value of each dollar spent. It is this collective pursuit of self-interest that drives the most successful economies and provides the highest overall standard of living.
However, like everything else, it's not perfect. It is the least flawed.
As a Canadian I have a fair deal of experience with a health care system isolated from market forces. At face value it sounds great. Who wouldn't like a system where one's health isn't reliant on one's wealth.
There are many benefits to that system, but it's not perfect.
Our demand for medical services exceeds the supply. As the profitability of those services is constrained less are offered than is optimal.
This has led to waiting lists for many medical services not of immediate peril. In conditions associated with pain those afflicted may have to deal with that discomfort for a considerable period of time. For the rich this is less of a problem as they can simply pay for what they need in the U.S. and bypass that wait. For the rest, sucks to be us.
Inefficiencies often get out of check. Numerous provinces have had periods of time where the hospital rooms available were far short of those needed. Patients overflowed into the hallways the associated discomfort for days on end until it was their turn to have room space open up. I'm not talking about pandemic conditions here. This was the "business as usual" state they had fallen to.
The retention of trained medical professionals is an issue. The pasture is greener south of the border and many choose to graze there. My own province is jumping through hoops to lure and retain nurses here.
Our health care system comes with an increased tax burden. The rich pay for the medical needs of the poor. This is of course an economic misallocation of resources. Canadians generally view the social benefit worth that cost, so there is little in the way of complaint from most but it remains a factor that must be acknowledged.
So, our health care rose garden comes with plenty of thorns. This should be kept in mind by those advocating for it elsewhere, such as happens in the U.S. occasionally.
The only issue we are seeing today is people are cheap. And rightly so, but sadly its ruining the entire MMORPG genre as people want F2P games which are actually super expensive if you want them to be fair.
Bad post. OP has no idea what they are speaking of.
Fact is, games are cheaper to make. Wages haven't really gone up. Hosting MMO's is cheaper than ever (but still pricey). There are more and more players than ever before. So you sell more but still put the same amount of work in.
Ok so i'll make an example of Blizzard and why i despise their obvious greed so much.
So over 4 years back when they had 10 million plus TOTAL operating costs were 200 million.
So simple math,let's average that at 50 million a year.
Ok more simple math let's just use the lower end of that era ..10 millionx15 sub fee and you have 150 million per MONTH !!!
Do you need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out that Blizzard is making off liek bandits and showing a lot of greed?
I have mentioned in the past that expansions should be FREE AND a heck of a lot better since the sub fees have more than covered the cost and then much more.So i also mentioned Blizzard being too cheap to add housing,millions and millions later and still no housing.
Know the WHY?Dumbasses not complaining,paying a developer to give them a HALF ASSED effort so because Blizzard can get away with it..they do.
This is also why i despise all the lame ass white knights that like to come and protect their beloved game,it just tells me they have no clue what is going on around them.
Of course it changes game to game but in this example,Blizzard is giving a half assed effort and double dipping on price by charging both sub fees and costs for expansions.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
has Wow ever looked like a game that make billions of dollars?Most competent developers could make 100 AAA games with that kind of money,Blizzard can't even make one.
Now we have Diablo mobile coming in,my god VERY little cost to operate,imagine how many millions plus cash shop?The game will look and play like a cheap Indie game since ALL diablo games do and they will make off with millions.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.